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Samsung 1080p Owner's Thread --- HLRxxx8W DLP Models - Page 28

post #811 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCSB View Post

Star Wars: Attack of the Clones seems to be a demanding disc that will bring out problems.

I have that. I will put it in tonight and check it out.
post #812 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

UCSB, tonydeluce, and others that have tried out dvd players with the 1080p Sammies:

Is it a correct summary of your observations to say that the Denon (and other Faroudja [sp?] chipped ones) is sharper than the Sammy 950 (with the Zoran chip) but induces some degree of macroblocking?

I haven't personally viewed the sammy 950. All DVD players that use Faroudja
chip have a known MB problem but this chip is known to produce some of the
sharpest pictures ( you have to spend $3500 or more to get a better
picture with no MB ). The Pioneer Elite 59avi that I ordered last night
can be found for well under $1000 online and has comparable PQ to the 3910
without the Faroudja chip. I should have it by the middle of next week
and will hook up to my 6168 via HDMI and compare it to my 3910. Also
most DVD players don't output 480i but the 59avi does therefore there
is an option to use an external scaler without any pre-processing from the dvd
player.

The MB from the 3910 on to my 6168 was not that bad nor even noticable in
most content. I did observe it more in some scenes and a few scenes
in Star Wars II more dramatically.
post #813 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwrose View Post

Tony... how far away do you sit? I am expecting my 6168 next week and made a last-minute decision to jump up from 56" to 61". My only concern was that I sit about 9 to 10 feet away... I've tested this distance from other 61" sets at BB for short periods and I REALLY LIKE IT! But was a little worried about watching for extended periods. I suppose it is a very personal thing, but just curious how far away you sit.

Thanks! Bill


I have been sitting 9 feet away but may move the couch up a a foot or so to see if
makes any difference.
post #814 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonydeluce View Post

I have been sitting 9 feet away but may move the couch up a a foot or so to see if
makes any difference.

You're on my wavelength--I sit about 10ft away and am waiting for the 7178!

Re the dvd player: the Pioneer Elite doesn't up-convert to 1080i, does it, like the Denon does? Does that not bother you?
post #815 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCSB View Post

Yes ... that is a good point the 6200 has to be configured in the setup menu. Make sure it is set to 1080i and 16:9 format. But, if problems persist, call your cable provider.

Just to clarify. I have a HLP5063 which is a 720p native set. If I were to find a 1080p set in my driveway I would be sure to restrict our STB to 1080i output.
post #816 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

You're on my wavelength--I sit about 10ft away and am waiting for the 7178!

Re the dvd player: the Pioneer Elite doesn't up-convert to 1080i, does it, like the Denon does? Does that not bother you?

The Pioneer 59avi does up-convert to 1080i and 720p
post #817 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I have a 6200 and had to configure it to get the best from DVI to HDMI connection. I have 720p selected as output with 480i override turned off.

My STB is a Motorola 6200 from Comcast.


I tried all possible config. Set the STB to 1080i, 720p with 4:3 override turned on/off. All of them does the same thing. It gets worse by the second and after a couple of minutes, looks horrible! Like a windows PC in safe mode! After I try the DVD player with HDMI this evening, I am planning to try 6412.
post #818 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwrose View Post

Tony... how far away do you sit? I am expecting my 6168 next week and made a last-minute decision to jump up from 56" to 61". My only concern was that I sit about 9 to 10 feet away... I've tested this distance from other 61" sets at BB for short periods and I REALLY LIKE IT! But was a little worried about watching for extended periods. I suppose it is a very personal thing, but just curious how far away you sit.

Thanks! Bill


I did the same thing. Went to different stores and tried watching a 61" from 10-12 feet. Did not look big. The first thing I noticed that is that a 61" looks big in my house than compared to the store! But, I got used to it after few hours. I guess it is a personal preference, but I think you will enjoy it
post #819 of 12092
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

UCSB, tonydeluce, and others that have tried out dvd players with the 1080p Sammies:

Is it a correct summary of your observations to say that the Denon (and other Faroudja [sp?] chipped ones) is sharper than the Sammy 950 (with the Zoran chip) but induces some degree of macroblocking?

millerwill ... I was in the Magnolia HiFi in San Ramon yesterday testing DVD players. When I left, there was the Samsung 950, Denon 3910, and Panasonic S97 connected to the HLR5678W (or on the stand and could be quickly reconnected). You might want to go over there and take a quick look.

There was enough macroblocking on both the 3910 and S97 that I ruled them out. To be fair to the S97, it has a number of settings and I did not try all of the settings. Perhaps there is a setting, such as sharpness, which can be used to reduce macroblocking. I'm not an expert with the 3910 and perhaps there is some combination of settings that may reduce the problem on that player also.

From Tony's posting last night, it seems he has given up on the 3910 and has ordered a Pioneer 59. Since he already owns the 3910, I assumed that he had tried everything to get around the macroblocking problem. I would guess the same is true for the S97. Just to be be clear ... these players may look very good with many DVD's. It is just that on some DVD's and scenes they become annoying.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I ruled the Faroudja players out before I even got the the step where I would have compared softness of the image. My personal working assumption is that all of the Faroudja players (including the OPPO, Panasonic S77) now must be evaluated to see if the problem is present in all of them.

I did do some A / B comparisons between the S97 and 950 and IF the 950 has a softer image it was not a problem. Perhaps it is something that can be tweaked with the sharpness adjustment on the TV. Macroblocking is 10 times more of a problem than softness when looking at the images.

From my perspective, the Samsung 950 is now my baseline player and the challenge will be to find something without the macroblocking that is better than it (Pioneer 59?, but out of my price range prior to HD DVD). The first time I tested DVD players, I thought I was using a Samsung 941, but now realize that it may have been a 850. I couldn't get 1080i working on it (adapter problem?) so I was using 480p over HDMI and I thought it looked very good (maybe better than 1080i on 950 [possible black crush problem, though]). I was on a 50" set. Stepping up to a 56" for my last round of tests made everything look less sharp, but there may be an approach with the Zoran players where the best image may be at 480p (this is unconfirmed). Maybe someone with a 950 can quickly test 480i, 480p, 1080i and let us know which is best.
post #820 of 12092
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekans View Post

I tried all possible config. Set the STB to 1080i, 720p with 4:3 override turned on/off. All of them does the same thing. It gets worse by the second and after a couple of minutes, looks horrible! Like a windows PC in safe mode! After I try the DVD player with HDMI this evening, I am planning to try 6412.

Talk to your cable company, they should know the status of the DVI implementation.
post #821 of 12092
Is Samsung using the Faroudja chip for deinterlacing in these sets? I'd be intereseted to know how the Denon 3910 looks if you output 480i through component to the Samsung and see how the Samsung does with the heavy lifting. I have a Denon 5900 and finally "demoted" it to 480i through component because of the macroblocking. It is now going into an iScan HD+ and I'm macroblocking free on my HLN507. I may replace the 5900 or have it SDI modded in order to preserve the digital path when I upgrade to the HLR5078.
post #822 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by calbert View Post


DVD
----------------------------------
- DVD-HD950 ---(HDMI)--> 5078
- DVD-HD950 ---(toslink)--> Denon 1803 AVR

Calbert,

Did you notice any sync issues between the video and audio? What audio format did your avr output?

Have you tried: DVD-HD950 ---(HDMI)--> 5078 ---(toslink)--> Denon 1803 AVR ? If not, could you try that setup?

Thanks,

Bob
post #823 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCSB View Post

millerwill ... I was in the Magnolia HiFi in San Ramon yesterday testing DVD players. When I left, there was the Samsung 950, Denon 3910, and Panasonic S97 connected to the HLR5678W (or on the stand and could be quickly reconnected). You might want to go over there and take a quick look.

Thanks for the thoughtful comments (didn't reproduce them all here to save space).
post #824 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_Morr View Post

Is Samsung using the Faroudja chip for deinterlacing in these sets? I'd be intereseted to know how the Denon 3910 looks if you output 480i through component to the Samsung and see how the Samsung does with the heavy lifting. I have a Denon 5900 and finally "demoted" it to 480i through component because of the macroblocking. It is now going into an iScan HD+ and I'm macroblocking free on my HLN507. I may replace the 5900 or have it SDI modded in order to preserve the digital path when I upgrade to the HLR5078.

Denon doesn't output 480i over HDMI and the 480p looked noticably worse than
the 1080i. Your solution should greatly reduce the MB but the
iSCAN HD+ runs close to a grand doesn't it? you are also doing
a d/a over component and then another a/d at the iScan HD+.
post #825 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCSB View Post

Talk to your cable company, they should know the status of the DVI implementation.

Thanks. I just called comcast and they said the DVI port should work. They asked me to get a replacement. I might get 6412 as it is only $5 more.
post #826 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_Morr View Post

Is Samsung using the Faroudja chip for deinterlacing in these sets? I'd be intereseted to know how the Denon 3910 looks if you output 480i through component to the Samsung and see how the Samsung does with the heavy lifting. I have a Denon 5900 and finally "demoted" it to 480i through component because of the macroblocking. It is now going into an iScan HD+ and I'm macroblocking free on my HLN507. I may replace the 5900 or have it SDI modded in order to preserve the digital path when I upgrade to the HLR5078.

I thought I read some where when I was at CES that the 1080P sammy's were using an ATI chip? I think it was this: http://www.ati.com/products/xilleon220/index.html

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong..

**EDIT** Just found this press release from a while back: http://apps.ati.com/ir/PressReleaseT...leaseID=690881
post #827 of 12092
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekans View Post

Thanks. I just called comcast and they said the DVI port should work. They asked me to get a replacement. I might get 6412 as it is only $5 more.

Get the 6412! Trust me on this one.
post #828 of 12092
After playing with my set a little bit more this morning I took the suggestion of a previous post for maximizing the screen size on the PC input for 1:1 pixel mapping. The end result is a bit of overscan but man did things sharpen up a lot! I was impressed with text quality before maximizing the screen size, but now I am pretty much blown away... Here is a picture:

www.voidyourwarranty.net/text.jpg

The picture doesn't do the quality any justice, but trust me text is VERY readable from my viewing distance (around 9 - 10')... You can also get a sense for the overscan... I would think that with some custom resolutions we can keep the overscan down to a minimum while hopefully keeping the 1:1 pixel mapping..
post #829 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkaStp View Post

On a related note. UCSB said it does 10 bits over HDMI. I'm not sure thats entirely correct, I think it may be 11 bits based on the spec. But thats not really my point here. Something you mentioned above got me thinking. I've been using my Panny S97 over DVI into my HLM507. I was not aware that there was an 8 bit limit on DVI. That may explain why I sometimes see banding insted of nice gradients in some areas of color. So when I get a new TV with a HDMI input then I should be able to benefit from the S97's full 10 (or 11) bits and get a much smoother picture (less banding) shouldn't I?

DVI is an 8 bit interface, HDMI should be smoother will less banding as
long as the TV also accepts 10 bits which I believe the new 1080p DLPs
do. I believe HDMI can also do 12 bit ( and is backward compatible with
DVI so can also do 8 bit ).
post #830 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by boblopes View Post

Did you notice any sync issues between the video and audio? What audio format did your avr output?

No sync issues at all with my current setup of the DVD-HD950. Perfectly matched, although skimming through one film is hardly enough of a test. I'll try a lot more this weekend. During LOTR ROTK, the AVR pumped out 5.1 DD or DTS just like I expected it should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boblopes View Post

Have you tried: DVD-HD950 ---(HDMI)--> 5078 ---(toslink)--> Denon 1803 AVR ? If not, could you try that setup?

I didn't have time to try that yet ... I will check it out tonight and report back.
post #831 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkaStp View Post

Did you also consider the Onkyo 1000 (MSRP $2K) when you were considering the Pioneer Elite 59avi? Based on what I've read in the DVD players forum, the Onkyo 1000 is apparently an excellent (but expensive) upconvert HDMI player.

Yes, I did - thanks. Audio on the Onkyo 1000 is alledgedly much better
but the PQ is about the same and the street price of the 59avi is half the
price of the Onkyo.

So, since I only pass the DD and DTS bit stream to my receiver and
let my Denon AVR-4802 handle the audio, I kept the extra $800
in my pocket...

I still have the 3910 ( if I decide to keep it ) which is an excellent
SACD and DVD-A player...
post #832 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkaStp View Post

If our cat were to damage our new screen I think cat stew would be on the menu.

LOL ... mmmm ... cat stew ...

If I primarily watched movies on the thing, I'd think that 50" at 9-11' just wouldn't be big enough. But for mixed viewing, my wife and I think it's absolutely perfect. I'm not sure I want to see Keith Olberman or Dave Chappelle bigger than my refrigerator anyway ... and movies still look spectacular at this size, especially in a modestly sized room. I think you'd love it.
post #833 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkaStp View Post

No, it uses a Zoran chip so no MB. There is a current thread or two about this over in the DVD players forum.

Is the Zoran chip in the Samsung DVD player or TV? Or both? I was referring to the TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonydeluce View Post

Denon doesn't output 480i over HDMI and the 480p looked noticably worse than
the 1080i. Your solution should greatly reduce the MB but the
iSCAN HD+ runs close to a grand doesn't it? you are also doing
a d/a over component and then another a/d at the iScan HD+.

You're correct. I just found it better to watch the picture without the MB despite the additional D/A and A/D conversions. I haven't jumped into SDI yet because I'll be interested in the Marantz 9600 coming out. I'm just wondering if the HLR's A/D through component and subsequent processing provide a good picture while eliminating the MB from the Faroudja-based DVD players for those who do not have an external video processor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeteroplaus View Post

I thought I read some where when I was at CES that the 1080P sammy's were using an ATI chip? I think it was this: http://www.ati.com/products/xilleon220/index.html

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong..

**EDIT** Just found this press release from a while back: http://apps.ati.com/ir/PressRelease...eleaseID=690881

Thanks.
post #834 of 12092
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkaStp View Post

On a related note. UCSB said it does 10 bits over HDMI. I'm not sure thats entirely correct, I think it may be 11 bits based on the spec. But thats not really my point here. Something you mentioned above got me thinking. I've been using my Panny S97 over DVI into my HLM507. I was not aware that there was an 8 bit limit on DVI. That may explain why I sometimes see banding insted of nice gradients in some areas of color. So when I get a new TV with a HDMI input then I should be able to benefit from the S97's full 10 (or 11) bits and get a much smoother picture (less banding) shouldn't I?

Yes, banding is improved (eliminated) going from 8 to 10 (11?) bits.
post #835 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonydeluce View Post

Definitely notice substantially more on this DVD - especially the dark
scenes. Even scenes with a great deal of monochrome red show
quite a bit.

I guess I will be upgrading my DVD player - I really hate to give up the
overall PQ of the Denon 3910 but I hear the Pioneer Elite 59avi is
suppose to be close with no MB...

Tony,

Congrats on the new set.

Have you tried sending the TV a 480i signal and let the Sammy do the scaling and deinterlacing? Be interesting to see how well the set handles it.
post #836 of 12092
Also posted on the TVA Powerbuy thread:


Received my 5078 on Wednesday morning. Unfortunatley I think it fell off the Donkey on the way here!

The bezel is all smashed on the left side near the "Anynet" logo.

Luckily TVA is being top notch to resolve the issue.

Besides that the TV looks incredible. I have a an older proscan DVD player ( connected via composite ) that is doing a great job. No hints of any lip sync issues yet.

I also spent a large amount of time playing with my Xbox. So far I have tried "KOTOR 2", "Doom", "Conker" and Forza without any noticable lag or issues.

On the DVD front I tried portions of "Star Wars", "Family Guy", "Gladiator" and "Buffy: Season 6".

The only thing that is bugging me is the way the TV is handling formats. If my DVD player is outputing 4:3 content I have to use the menu to switch to get bars on the sides, and then use the menu to get back to 16:9 when watching a movie. Is there any way to setup the TV to automatically switch formats, or maybe a remote quick combo that will let me switch?
post #837 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandu View Post

I have an SFA 8300 DVR connected to my 6168 through HDMI and my surround processor connected to the 8300 via optical. The TV confirms that it is receiving 1080i. If I have both the TV audio and the surround system on at the same time there is an echo.

I don't suppose you have a firewire cable to check the output from the 8300 to the 6168 do you? Just curious if that works and/or what the advantages/disadvantages might be......
post #838 of 12092
I received my 6168 yesterday. I had a chance to set it up and watch TV for around 5 hrs. My observations....

Ran it through DVE. This is what I came up with: warm 1; contrast 28, brightness 40; sharpness 0; color 57. All the other edge enhancements are off.

My two SD Tivos are connected via SVideo. The picture is good. Better than my Toshiba CRT (professionally calibrated). I expected much worst. No digital artifacts like noisy edges or blocking. No lip sync issues either. There seemed to be a small 1/2" horizontal band at the top of the screen that seems to exhibit noise or slight snow. It isn't really all that noticeable unless you make it a point to look up towards the top. I haven't tried the other SVideo input (I will tonight). The other inputs did not contain the same horizontal band.

DVD Sammy 950 connected via HDMI. The picture is really nice. Not as good as HD Tivo or HD Cable @ 1080i, but very good. No artifact issues, blacks are great. Slight lip sync issue. Not bad though. The picture might be better than what I observed. I only scanned through the I Robot DVD briefly.

HD Cable (Moxi) connected direct via component. I tried all the different scaling options (480p, 720p, 1080i), I settled on the 1080i. The picture was noticeably better at 1080i. It added a bit more edge noise, but otherwise, the picture is stunning. I watched part of that INXS Rock Star show (one of the worst shows I've ever seen...zero talent). I felt this would be a pretty good show to watch and allow the 6168 show what it could do since most of the program is shot on stage. Lots of colored lights, back lighting, chrome, close ups The picture was unbelievable. You could see individual hairs on the performers with no noise or edge artifacts. Lots of fast moving camera work. No issues with compression etc. A flawless picture. The only draw back was there was a bit of a lip sync issue. It seemed at one point, it was really bad, but it was right after I toggled from 480p to 1080i. Once I FF'd through the commercial, it was gone. I think by pausing, FF, REW, or some other picture modification might have corrected the problem.

HDTivo connected direct via HDMI. Once again, incredible picture. 1080i seems to be the best scaling option here as well. I watched part of an ESPNHD baseball game. Crystal clear. No issues at all. Discovery HD looked incredible as well. As others have reported, the lip sync issue makes it unwatchable. At least a 1/4 second behind the audio. (Seems to be a Directv issue with this channel.) I watched a couple of HD movie channels. Great picture as well. Slight lip sync issue with all channels to be honest. None (other than Discovery HD) is all that bad. Still irritating none the less.

For the lip sync issue, I have already ordered the Felston DD540. I will connect the HD Cable and HDTivo to it. My current pre/pro (Outlaw 950) only offers audio compensation based on the distance you sit from all five speakers. Counterproductive in this case. The Felston will correct the lip sync issues, and IMO, a great investment if you want to get the most out of this TV and the overall HT experience.

Once I put a couple of hundred hours on it, I will have an ISF tech calibrate it. Should improve colors and blacks (right now, colors and blacks are the best I've seen on any DLP set).

I would say my highlights are:
Great HD picture
Once calibrated, the colors are unreal
3D is a reality (my neighbor's first comment..."it looks 3D!!)
Easy picture set up for basic functions

Lowlights:
Lip sync issue (corrected by the Felston)
With no video switching, toggling through the inputs, switching the audio, and entering the source is a bit of a hassle even with everything programmed into a HTM MX500 remote. Since the TV uses a toggle feature to switch inputs, I'm unable to develop a macro to do all three since I have four components feeding directly to the TV. I can only switch the audio and source. The video input toggle, I have to switch manually.

Added:
Audio is connected directly to my pre/pro. Nothing through the TV.
post #839 of 12092
Byrnebv,

Could you edit in how you have your audio connected?

Jon
post #840 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by TargetPractice View Post

Besides that the TV looks incredible. I have a an older proscan DVD player ( connected via composite ) that is doing a great job. No hints of any lip sync issues yet.

Are you really using a composite connection? Could it be component?

Quote:
The only thing that is bugging me is the way the TV is handling formats. If my DVD player is outputing 4:3 content I have to use the menu to switch to get bars on the sides, and then use the menu to get back to 16:9 when watching a movie. Is there any way to setup the TV to automatically switch formats, or maybe a remote quick combo that will let me switch?

I don't know how old your DVD player is but does it have a switch or menu option to tell it that your TV screen is now 16x9 and not 4x3? That might be part of the problem.
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