How to get bit perfect PCM and DD/DTS Audio in MCE2005 - Page 2

Does the Nforce 2 support 44.1KHz output?

Actually, the Asus A7N8X motherboard's onboard audio uses an Nvidia Soundstorm chip that is very capable of actually encoding AC3, but for passthrough playback I think it uses an Nforce 2 "MCP" chip and a plain old "Realtek ALC650 6CH w/built in HP amplifier" that locks things at 48kHz. Worth a shot to try, anyway. I'll use the test track to check it out tomorrow.

-Adam

I know about the realtime encoding but I thought it could only do 48Khz?

Cheers

Thomas

Actually, you're right. No dice on this one with my existing onboard sound, it's locked at 48khz.

Well, I have a Chaintech AV710 on order and an M-Audio Transit USB, both of which are capable of bit-perfect 44.1kHz output, though I will not need ReClock to use the M-Audio Transit with MCE 2005. I'll probably play with the Chaintech using ReClock just for kicks to see if it works and report my results here.

-Adam

OK, reporting in here with a question:

First, the question: how do I set ReClock as the default system renderer in MCE or WMP settings? For some reason, I can't find it. If you mean setting the "force" option in the ReClock configuration panel, I've done that.

I've got my Chaintech AV710 in and have been tinkering away. 2 successes and 1 failure so far.

First, my setup:

Asus A7N8X Deluxe (Nforce2) with Athlon XP 2400+
Windows XP MCE with Rollup 2
Foobar2000 version 0.8.3 with Kernel Streaming output .dll enabled
Chaintech AV710 Soundcard, using ViaArena.com latest Envy24 Drivers (Envy24_Family_V500a)
ReClock Beta (1.7b4)

Next, my settings:

Via Envy Control Panel: 2-channel mode set to 44.1kHz, SPDIF set to PCM only and 44.1kHz.
Foobar2000 Preferences:Output set to kernel streaming, device set to Envy24 (Chaintech card)
ReClock Config Panel: Outputs set to kernel streaming, devices set to Envy24, Force ReClock to be renderer for DirectSound enabled

Now, my successes:

Foobar2000 in kernel streaming mode plays the 44.1kHz DTS test track and all my lossless and VBR MP3 audio files flawlessly. It sounds fantastic, and vastly improved from Nforce2 onboard sound being muddled by Kmixer to 48kHz.

Windows Media Player plays the 44.1kHz DTS test track, some VBRAltPresetStandard EAC-encoded Mp3's and some Windows Lossless songs through ReClock's rendering engine (forced in ReClock settings) with a delayed start, a pop now and then, and a few skips here and there, but once it's going, it sounds equally as fantastic as Foobar2000.

Finally, my problem so far: no MCE bit-perfection with Chaintech yet

Media Center, however, tells me when I look for my normal collection of WMlossless and VBR MP3 files that the files are "missing or corrupt" which they most certainly aren't, and no audio plays at all. I remember someone mentioning in some Envy or Chaintech AV710 thread that when files are played on a drive other than the primary C: drive in the same machine or over a network, problems arise. Perhaps this is the cause, as my audio files reside on a 400GB SATA drive I installed solely for media storage. Unless someone (thomaspf?) knows something I don't in that I haven't reset MCE properly.

I'm still awaiting my M-Audio transit (I know it will jitter thomas, but at least it will hopefully play MCE audio at bit-perfect 44.1kHz ). I'll install that and run same tests as above when I get it and report here.

In the meantime, does anyone have any ideas about making ReClock and MCE happy together?

Thanks,
Adam

I have no more data. I have only tested this with Windows Media player not with MCE.

I was under the apparently wrong impression that this trick would work there as well.

Thomas

From Ogo's own ReClock forums on his site, I understand that he's working on MCE compatibility right now and that several users have in fact, made it work. I'm still not sure what's messing up my config, we'll see. I should receive my M-Audio Transit later this week and will report in here.

Thomas thanks as always for your input.

-Adam

I recently installed the "Transit-plus-onboard-sound" solution suggested above and it works flawlessly. I tested with the DTS test track linked above.

Big improvement in sound quality over the onboard-only setup.

DE

I assume those using two sound devices are not using MCE for all media playback? Unless I'm mistaken, there is no way to set video playback to use one device and music to use another. Thats one thing I liked about Meedio, you could specify different sound devices for different media.

Fantastic! Looks like I'll be relegating my Chaintech to another system or to supplemental duty when my Transit arrives. Victory is ours. :-)

-Adam

Meedio and MediaPortal both have that functionality I believe. In my case, it's a matter of the wife's comfort and "training" on MCE and my desire to boost audio performance without teaching her a new system. My path will be:

DVD and HDTV with multichannel audio -> MyHD MDP-130 -> onboard sound SPDIF out -> DVD input on my Denon receiver

MCE sound from Standard Def TV, videos and 2-channel music -> M-Audio Transit USB -> CD input on my Denon Receiver

So that's my setup to be.

-Adam

I also got "Transit-plus-onboard-sound" soultion. Works great with MCE, except whenever I use Transit in MCE's media player, I lose about half a second to a second of sound at very beginning of each song I played. Both no problem at all if I use Foobar or JR Media Center.

I also tried ReClok on MCE. While the audio part work, it causes the live TV to meltfunction. That's why I decide to go with Transit solution.

Missed your reply. I'm talking about the Audiophile USB, not the Transit. I have a Transit. I was the guinea pig who determined the Transit will give you bit perfect PCM with MCE. I recently went exclusivly to MCE and don't want to change settings in the Transit's control panel. I have a Audiophile USB on the way so we will see how it works. Yet another sound device to throw into the pile

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=361125

Ah yes, now I understand why your price was higher. I see no reason why that one shouldn't work too, as it's the USB interface and 44.1kHz hardware compatibility that creates the magic formula I believe. Do let us know how that one works out when you get a chance. Adding to the list of successes is a good thing.

What's your planned signal path setup, out of curiosity?

-Adam

I am setting up a HTPC and am interested in the best sound possible for my MCE PC. Earlier in this thread it was stated by a poster that he used onboard SPDIF for DVD/HDTV/ Games and the "transit and onboard" solution for CD's. I am so sorry to be a pain, but if I buy the Chaintech for DVD playback and HD video playback, will the sound suffer of will that card just not work with MCE? I am having a hard time understanding what to expect if I buy the Chaintech for my MCE.

THanks in advance.

AC3/DTS will be fine thru the Chaintech or onbaord sound. PCM audio will probably be better thru the Chaintech because music isn't being resampled to 48KHz. Its still going thru the Kmixer though which is said to degrade sound. The only way to get bitperfect PCM from MCE seems to be thru *some* USB audio devices. If all you care about is AC3/DTS from DVDs and game audio, the onboard sound is fine. Don't bother with another card/device. If you want high quality music playback, the Chaintech only gets you halfway there when using MCE.

Hi all,

M-Audio Transit USB - Bit-perfect Audio in MCE 2005 Success
Happy to report that I downloaded fresh M-Audio Transit drivers, installed and rebooted, then connected my Transit and rebooted for good measure, and Voila! I have bit-perfect audio coming right out of WMP 10 and Media Center itself! My lossless and VBR alt-preset standard audio rips sound fantastic. Hooray!

Odd Problem Likely Unique to My System - Help Anyone?
But, there's a caveat. This is wierd and it happened after I installed the Chaintech as well, and when I uninstalled the Chaintech and its associated drivers, the problem went away:

After installing the sound card, the TV streams from both My Hauppauge PVR150 *and* my MyHD MDP-130 stop displaying, reporting "signal strength too low." Obviously, as the MyHD is completely independent of Media Center, my possible theories are that:

1) My weak power supply is pushed too hard when I add either the Chaintech or Transit USB and somehow this keeps the live signal from passing through properly.

2) A PCI Bus or IRQ Conflict (do those still happen in WinXP?) is created resulting in the problem.

3) Somehow, the TV signal is degraded by adding a sound card with optical out. (I find this highly unlikely as optical wires have no RF interference and I'm shielded and cable-tied well, and because the problem repeats across both a PCI device (Chaintech) and USB device (Transit) and across MyHD and The Hauppauge tuner).

Anyone have any theories to help me troubleshoot this problem?

My system is an older A7N8X Deluxe Nforce2 mobo with an Athlon XP 2400+. The power supply reports the following in Speedfan, and I don't know enough to know if this is too low:

+3.3v: 3.31
+5v: 4.95
+12v: 12.22
-12v: -11.39
-5v: -4.84

Thoughts? Ideas? Help please!

Edit: Reinstalled MCE and completely uninstalled Chaintech drivers and all is well again, not sure what the problem was. Perhaps some piece of beta audio software I was tinkering with left behind some gremlins. Wiped clean, sounds great now.

Thanks,
Adam

I'm using MCE for all playback. Within Windows Media Player, you can select the sound device you want WMP to use. This can be different from the Windows default sound device. If the device (Transit) is selected in WMP, then MCE uses it for My Music only. The default device (on-board) is used for everything else.

Crazy - but it works...

DE

have you tied M-audio audiophile USB to get bit-perfect sound? It seems like a much better value than m audio transit and can be used for other purposes as well.
Thanks a lot!

Ruslan

The Audiophile USB doesn't work. You can't get bitperfect audio with it and no matter what the settings, MCE or WMP will not pass or even output AC3/DTS. I could get AC3/DTS with TT but who cares if you can't get bitperfect PCM. I can't tell you how many sound devices I have bought in the last 4 years. Luckly, I have a relative who wants it.

Any suggestions for someone who doesn't have a digital output with the onboard sound? I have a Dell 8400 and while it has 5.1 analog output, there is no digital output. I currently have the 5.1 analog outputs plugged into my receiver via a 5.1 analog input. Should I still be able to get pit-perfect sound simply by adding a USB Transit device?

Also, is there any benefit to adding TheaterTek for DVD playback when it comes to bit perfect sound. They have a TheaterTek with DTS encoders - should I look into that since I have only analog 5.1 outputs? As you can see, this whole Bit Perfect thing really throws me for a loop.

Thanks.

Haven't posted here for quite a while since my MCE has been working very well for months. My bit-perfect MCE setup is similar to most folks here. That is, onboard sound for 48khz and usb sound (cheap $20 at Fry's) for 44khz. Both play back DTS flawlessly. Only issue (small issue) is I have to use remote to switch between the 2 sound inputs on my receiver whenever I switch from movie to music and vise-versa. Not a big deal for me, but not 100%WAF.

So, here is a thought. Has anyone tried one of those cheap optical spliters? The ones that let you split one optical into 2. Sort of like an "Y" adapter. I remember seeing it online for < $10 but can't find it now.

I was thinking if you could connect both audio outputs from the PC (onboard and usb) to this "Y" adapter and only have one optical cable goiong into the receiver/amp. That way, you won't even have to use the remote to switch between the 2. Everything will just be automatic. I haven't tried this because my onboard S/PDIF is coax and the usb is optical. What do you think? Will combining 2 opticals completely mess up the digital signals even if only one will have active signal at a time?

I purchased a $6 Optical for the very same use and I am extremely satisfied. I don't have the equipment to measure the audio throughput, but on my $2000 HT setup, the sound is awesome.

Well, I just found this . Looks like what I said earlier might not work as it says:

With onboard sound and usb sound setup, both sound devices are 'on' at the same time. I've notice that even when no signal is being passed, and the device is turned on, there is still a light through the toslink cable. Thus I had doubts that simply combining the 2 toslink cables would work. Oh well.

Texasengineer, can you elaborate on your setup? It shouldn't be working according to the link above.

I would like to know this also. I currently have a macro on my remote for 'Music' and that works OK, but it would be nice if I didn't have to...

DE

PS - I found this item

35-442 FIBER-OPTIC TOSLINK "Y" ADAPTOR-WITH 3 TOSLINK FEMALE CONNECTORS $24.95

on this site

texasengineer, are you around? Please see my question 2 posts above.

I found several places that sell this toslink splitter/combiner for < $10:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...number=180-964
http://www.cablestogo.com/product.as...=102&sku=27027
http://www.cablewholesale.com/cgi-bi...slink+splitter
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style=
http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/a...s.html#pof-810
http://www.trianglecables.com/pof-810.html
or several on e-bay (search for toslink splitter)

Anyone who has 2 toslink connectors care to invest <$10 and test? I would if I had 2 toslink connectors, but I have a toslink and a coax. Even if it doesn't work, you can still use it as a regular coupler. But if it does work, HOLY GRAIL!!!!

I have an M-Audio Delta Dio 24/96 card and my recollection is that it outputs bit-perfect audio... Has anyone else tried this card under MCE?

Thanks,
Jeff

It outputs bitperfect with ASIO or keneral streaming. Neither of which are available in MCE.

I'm not sure if your question has been answered yet, but yes, you absolutely should. The little Transit USB will bypass windows completely and pump your bit-perfect audio at true 44.1kHz out of its digital audio jack. If you want 48kHz, you have to jump into the M-audio control panel to alter it accordingly (for Dolby Digital encoded info, etc.).

Good luck!

-Adam

I found another way to get bit-perfect from WMP. I've been using this method for a couple of years now, and never had a chance to share it.

I have 2 soundcards in my system. One M-Audio Delta DIO, the other an XPlosion 7.1 (former for music, latter for games and movies).

I use an M-Audio Delta DIO for music, but I installed the Hoontech DSP 24 Value drivers for it (it works!). The cards must use the same chip, but The Hoontech drivers do not use KMixer. You set the hoontech drivers to send WavOut to the SPDIF (as opposed to its Monitor Mixer). WMP then passes bit perfect audio (demonstrable using DTS tracks).

In WMP, I explicitly choose the SPDIF output of the Delta DIO as my output device (in WMP, Tools/Options/Devices/Speakers).

The default Windows sound card is my Xplosion, so all other audio, including DVD output, goes out my XPlosion. (This is because most the DVD decoders rely on the default Windows sound card only, even though you're technically using WMP within MCE 2005)

Both the DIO and the Xplosion are connected to my Surround Processor via SPDIF cables, and I just switch between the two devices using my remote to listen to music or plays games, watch a movie, etc.

If any of you guys still use the Delta DIO, it's definitely worth it.

Here's another tip for this card (and others like it that have digital input, and allow syncing to an external clock). Use TWO SPDIF cables. One going out from the sound card to your processor/receiver as normal. The other going out from the processor's digital out, back into the digital input of the sound card. Set the soundcard's drivers to use "External Master Clock". This forces the sound card to use exactly the same clock as the DAC in your processor/receiver, and it greatly reduces jitter. The difference can be very, very audible.

-Jeff