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DVDO iScan VP30 - Page 3

post #61 of 6818
I'd like to double check something I'm seeing on the DVDO's site.

I'm pleased to see the DVDO already incorporated in all facets of the site, especially the "compare all DVDO products comparision table" list page.

One thing that got my attention was that, apparently, the same SIL-504 chip is making a return appearance on this new Iscan for video deinterlacing. I could have sworn that I read somewhere that this new Iscan was either going to use Gennum and/or Faroudja or some other "newer" deinterlacer.


Quote:


Deinterlacing (Pure Progressive SiI504) &Scaling (Precision Video Scaling II by ABT)

The bolded item is the upgrade/improvement/difference that I see vs. the older Iscan devices on the same page.



The other upgrade that I see that I like, of course is this:

Quote:


Scaling Architecture 10 Bit, non-linear, sharpness control

vs. 8 bit on the previous units.

I just want to make 100 percent sure on this. We're still on SIL-504 for deinterlacing with this new Iscan?
post #62 of 6818
It's also interesting in that it looks like I can upgrade my iScan HD to an iScan HD+ for $199, then get $250 more trade-in allowance for it. ($1000 vs $750)

Unheard of!!!

And I was JUST getting used to the idea I have a reasonably contemporary video processor!!!
post #63 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEBrown View Post

It's also interesting in that it looks like I can upgrade my iScan HD to an iScan HD+ for $199, then get $250 trade-in allowance for it.

Unheard of!!!

And I was JUST getting used to the idea I have a reasonably contemporary video processor!!!

I remember your other post earlier stating that universal maxim of consumer electronics: "There's always something bigger and better around the corner."
post #64 of 6818
And keep in mind another maxim as well:

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Since the Sil504 is still considered state-of-the-art in terms of film deinterlacing (especially with badly authored material), then there's not a lot of improvement to be had. There may be a few areas where it is bested by others (video), but we're all probably more concerned about film-based DVD upscaling anyway, considering the typical poor quality of video sources (cable, TiVo, etc.)

Besides, by this point I'd hope the code driving it would be completely debugged and tested, which is always a good thing when rolling out a new product. Fewer variables to consider for QC.

The (hopefully) improved scaling and HDMI inputs are enough for me to want to upgrade. The ability to process analog HD is an unexpected bonus.

Of course, I'd love integrated high-end noise reduction like other vendors offer, but I'd also really not like to see the price mushroom to 2.5x its current MSRP!! And on good quality material, I think we're probably talking about single-digit %s of improvement.

In any event, I can't wait!

-John
post #65 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Williams View Post

And keep in mind another maxim as well:

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Since the Sil504 is still considered state-of-the-art in terms of film deinterlacing (especially with badly authored material), then there's not a lot of improvement to be had. There may be a few areas where it is bested by others (video), but we're all probably more concernted about film-based DVD upscaling anyway, considering the typical poor quality of video sources (cable, TiVo, etc.)

I know at least one forumer (I won't name him) that never hesistates to trash the SIL-504 any chance he gets in the video processor forum here

I can't wait for him to see your comments.

Maybe he'll actually tell us this time what his idea of superior deinterlacers are and suggest clearly superior and viable alternatives. Under 5 grand preferably.


Quote:



Besides, by this point I'd hope the code driving it would be completely debugged and tested, which is always a good thing when rolling out a new product. Fewer variables to consider for QC.

The (hopefully) improved scaling and HDMI inputs are enough for me to want to upgrade. The ability to process analog HD is an unexpected bonus.

I can't wait!

-John

Oh sure! I'm not knocking the product whatsoever! Just making an observation to field comments on way or the other.
post #66 of 6818
Madshi, the Mosquito specifies either i or p input. But if you're right, I can give it either.

I think I know who you're talking about Q and if I understand correctly, he doesn't think there is a decent video deinterlacer out there right now.

Dan
post #67 of 6818
It will be a killer scaler if we know for sure if it does proper motion adaptive deinterlacing/scaling of HD material. I don't care if it does not have Realta or Faroudja or Gennum as long as is does atleast a comparable & a great job of scaling & deinterlacing of all resolutions.
post #68 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinodk View Post

It will be a killer scaler if we know for sure if it does proper motion adaptive deinterlacing/scaling of HD material. I don't care if it does not have Realta or Faroudja or Gennum as long as is does atleast a comparable & a great job of scaling & deinterlacing of all resolutions.

Is it possible that some folks with connection around here get a chance to play with the new toy and maybe write us up some kind of a "preview/review" before this thing ships? (Before the pre-order deadline expires.)

I'm thinking of maybe Alan Gouger or someone like that getting a shot with the new toy?
post #69 of 6818
Q,

Or how about the Secrets folks?

-John

PS: Note my updated message above btw.
post #70 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsuski View Post

Josh,

You claimed above:

"(Of course connecting up HDMI sources and going out analog is not allowed because of HDCP)."

I was under the impression that the FCC had voted to prohibit the use of selectable outputs control and by doing so - left the "Analog hole" open.

"The Commission voted to prohibit the use of "selectable output control" technology on all digital cable and direct-broadcast satellite systems, leaving open the "analog hole" dreaded by the studios."

http://www.cedmagazine.com/cedailydi...aily030911.htm

If this is still the case - then it should be "legal" to accept a digital input, process it and output it over an analog port (such as RGBHV) without restricting the resolution in any way.

Is ABT just being conservative with their approach or are our beloved analog CRT's in jeopardy here. Please comment on the actual legal requirement as well as ABT's position on this.

Sincere thanks.

Ed

If this were the case, you wouldn't have to worry about having an HDCP compliant display. You could hook up all your digital sources to the VP30 and then go analog from the Iscan to the display....is that even possible?
Javry
post #71 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Williams View Post

Q,

Or how about the Secrets folks?

-John

PS: Note my updated message above btw.

Sure, anyone! Just so long as we get something out there before the pre-order deadline expires.

I saw your updated post. I agree with you.
post #72 of 6818
@Dan: My fault. I thought you were speaking about feeding a scaled signal to the Mosquito. But now I see you were only talking about a deinterlaced signal. That's fine, of course. I've even heard that the Mosquito works slightly better on progressive signals.
post #73 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

If this were the case, you wouldn't have to worry about having an HDCP compliant display. You could hook up all your digital sources to the VP30 and then go analog from the Iscan to the display....is that even possible?
Javry

I think this is a huge question. Even without HDCP encryption, could the VP30 transcode dvi to analog (apparently someone on the forums has stated that the Lumagens do this even with HDCP). Then again, with special boxes and cables, legacy display owners could run everything into the VP30 digitally then convert from the DVI out to analog, but it defeats the purpose of the nice BNC connectors and is awfully inelegant (word?).


Q,

I'm probably mistaken but I thought the Sil504 was not capable of handling 1080i deinterlacing. It would be a shame if the new processor really only offered more HDMI in's and analog transcoding. Motion adapative deinterlacing almost has to be a must for a new processor, no?

Reagardless, with the great trade in offer coupled with the 10% off pre-order this would be hard to pass up. I just hope in 6 months we don't see a VP30+.

Andy
post #74 of 6818
Reading the VP30 description it looks as if it is a NTSC de-interlacer and can accept and scale HTDV signals. There does not appear to be 1080i de-interlacing.

-- Rich
post #75 of 6818
Looks great, but I agree that if it doesn't do 1080i deinterlacing that is a disappointment.
post #76 of 6818
Without 1080i de-interlacing the VP30 is not an option as most of the sources soon will be 1080i (HD-DVD).
post #77 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolfHult View Post

Without 1080i de-interlacing the VP30 is not an option as most of the sources soon will be 1080i (HD-DVD).

The final specs have not been released yet, but at this point it is believed that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will be stored on disc at 1080p and then output at your choice of 720p, 1080i, or 1080p resolution.

So my question is will the VP30 scale a 1080p input signal?
post #78 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinodk View Post

It will be a killer scaler if we know for sure if it does proper motion adaptive deinterlacing/scaling of HD material. I don't care if it does not have Realta or Faroudja or Gennum as long as is does atleast a comparable & a great job of scaling & deinterlacing of all resolutions.

This is what I'm keenly interested in also. The HD+ does a decent job of deinterlacing film based SD sources but the problem for me anyway has always been the limited HD processing available. The HD+ doesn't even upconvert component to 1080p (only DVI) so I can't even hookup say an X-Box (@1080i) to my HD+. If the VP30 will do up and downconversion to/from 1080p using motion adaptive deinterlacing then they will have a killer product. Especially if it is as well supported and as solid of a product bug-wise as the HD+ (and at a good price point).
post #79 of 6818
Thanks Madshi, I appreciate all the input I can get.

Dan
post #80 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The final specs have not been released yet, but at this point it is believed that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will be stored on disc at 1080p and then output at your choice of 720p, 1080i, or 1080p resolution.

So my question is will the VP30 scale a 1080p input signal?

I have read that initially BD and HD-DVD will only output 1080i. If they support 1080P, and you have a display that is 1080P and accepts it, why on earth would would want any additional processing? If the VP30 switched it, you would be all set.

-- Rich
post #81 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The final specs have not been released yet, but at this point it is believed that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will be stored on disc at 1080p and then output at your choice of 720p, 1080i, or 1080p resolution.

So my question is will the VP30 scale a 1080p input signal?

With all the questions surrounding Sony's possible anti-piracy schemes whether or not the VP30 can scale a 1080p signal may be moot (though it would be nice). If Sony goes above and beyond HDCP but something similar (ie handshake w/ Sony's proprietary copy protection scheme), I imagine that all scalers coming out before Blu-Ray might be incompatible anyways.
post #82 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyN View Post

With all the questions surrounding Sony's possible anti-piracy schemes whether or not the VP30 can scale a 1080p signal may be moot (though it would be nice). If Sony goes above and beyond HDCP but something similar (ie handshake w/ Sony's proprietary copy protection scheme), I imagine that all scalers coming out before Blu-Ray might be incompatible anyways.

I don't think you have to worry about that. From what I have read, Sony has three levels of copy protection. They are all focused on the media and the player. I think that HDMI output is not going to change.

-- Rich
post #83 of 6818
Correct me on my math, but even if the VP30 scales 1080i the same way the HD+ does, I'd still be looking at, essentially a 1920x540p --> 1280x720p conversion for my native rate, right? That is, it would scale every 1080i field (540 lines) to the native output?

That's not ideal, but also not so bad.

On an unrelated topic, I would like to know for sure what format movies are going to be stored as on HD-DVD and Blu-ray. Surely not interlaced? That'd be pretty boneheaded, don't you think?

Yes yes yes I know two formats (in the first place) is boneheaded, no analog HD output is, etc. But this would really take the cake.
post #84 of 6818
OK ... at the risk of sounding as Neo as I really am ....
this new unit now available / http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_isvp30.php / with a Dish 942 already sending 1080i / and the already great scaler in the Q006 / aside from the lipsync adjustment feature, what does this get me .... isn't the Dragonfly of more use in a better picture with SD ? Or does this do what that does and more for us 006Q owners who want better PQ in SD?
post #85 of 6818
I am eagerly waiting for more details of HD processing as I also have AVM30 which is also supposed to get the scaler upgrade & for me the price difference will be the same. I am sure other AVM30 & D1 owners who also have IScan HD+ are on the fence also.
post #86 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo2005 View Post

OK ... at the risk of sounding as Neo as I really am ....
this new unit now available / http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_isvp30.php / with a Dish 942 already sending 1080i / and the already great scaler in the Q006 / aside from the lipsync adjustment feature, what does this get me .... isn't the Dragonfly of more use in a better picture with SD ? Or does this do what that does and more for us 006Q owners who want better PQ in SD?

I'm not sure how anyone can answer questions like these without having actually SEEN the hardware in action, or better yet, actual hands on experience with the hardware.

All we have is specs on websites for both the new Iscan and the Dragonfly. Not much else beyond that yet.
post #87 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I have read that initially BD and HD-DVD will only output 1080i.

If true, that would be a pretty friggin' stupid decision, considering the significant number of 720p plasma, LCD, and DLP sets in use right now. My HD cable box can select which output resolution to use, and so can every single upconverting DVD player on the market. To limit the next-generation players to 1080i would make no sense whatsoever. I seriously doubt that will happen.

Quote:


If they support 1080P, and you have a display that is 1080P and accepts it, why on earth would would want any additional processing?

My display is not 1080p. It's XGA 1024x768. Whether HD-DVD and Blu-Ray output 720p, 1080i, or 1080p, I will still need the signal to be scaled. I'd rather have an iScan do that work from the highest possible resolution that the disc stores, than to have the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player scale once and then my display scale again.
post #88 of 6818
Gees, Josh, I thought I was the only dinosaur left around here with an XGA display.

Dan
post #89 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

I'm still curious as to how this unit will compare to the DF. In other words....would there be much difference between a Mosquito > VP30 vs a Mosquito > DF setup. The price is sure better. Any thoughts?
Javry


I second that. I am on the preorder list for the Dragonfly, and because of Algolith's short sighted mistakes (no custom resolution controls, no SDI, etc) I want to cancel and move to DVDO. How will its performence compare to the Realta chip????????
post #90 of 6818
Count me as another person disappointed to see the Sil504 used for video deinterlacing in this product. For those who watch film-sourced material, this looks like a fantastic product and a great deal, but those of us whose primary material are video-sourced DVDs will have to wait and see what else is coming down the pipeline.

--Andre
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