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DVDO iScan VP30 - Page 227

post #6781 of 6818
thanks Josh,but there is no solution also if i 'll not flag on it
post #6782 of 6818
A new question about the VP30...

Basically (as some of you know) I'm trying to find out a way to use something like an HDMI splitter to connect a bluray player to both the VP30 and a new AVR that sounds great, but I really don't want the AVR handling the video--not even passthrough video (that's why I have the VP30!). I haven't bought the AVR yet so I can't try this out myself. If it works as I hope then I can spend money on a better sounding AVR and not have to worry about the AVR's video capabilities...

So I'm wondering if I could use an HDMI splitter and connect the two splitter outputs to the VP30 and my AVR, and tell the VP30 to take its audio from the toslink input... If this works, it accomplishes two goals:

A) downstream television receives picture from VP30 HDMI input, and audio from VP30 toslink input (configured for 2ch stereo in the bluray player). TV therefore has video + stereo sound, to be enjoyed with daddy isn't home to run the "big speakers."

B) high-def (HDMI) audio from the bluray player is routed to the AVR (and ignored by the VP30), so that when activated, daddy's "big speakers" turn on. In that scenario, we just mute the TV....

So, my question about the VP30 is this:

Q) If I setup the VP30 to have an HDMI input's audio come from one of the toslink inputs, how does the VP30 handle the EDID negotiation coming from the downstream television set -- will it pass through only the video portion back to the bluray player since the VP30 is setup to ignore the HDMI audio stream?

If it strips the audio portion of the TV's EDID data, then I'm all good. If it still passes through ALL the TV's EDID data then the bluray player will negotiate the "lowest common denominator" between the TV and the AVR, which would be 2ch stereo downmix, and I'm still just plain out-of-luck (really can't afford to upgrade to an Edge).

Is there anyone that knows the answer or could try it out and report back? I would be most grateful!

thanks,
..dane
post #6783 of 6818
Questions answered.. VP30 doesn't pass EDID the way Edge does, it only communicates EDID input capabilities of the VP30 (and scales/converts to whatever necessary for output device). The EDGE passes downstream device information, not the VP30.

cheers,
..dane
post #6784 of 6818
I'm having a really strange problem with my VP30 and 1080p passthrough mode... Has anyone else seen this problem??

I have a VP30+ABT102 and have been using the Auto-Input-Switching functionality. Recently I have attempted to hook up two different DVD players via HDMI (my first HDMI sources), an Oppo 970hd (DVD only) and an Oppo BD83 (Bluray). Both exhibit different problems:

Oppo DV-970HD DVD Player:

- When the DV-970HD is in standby mode and the VP30 in "Auto" mode, the VP30 selects the DV-970HD's HDMI output. INFO shows that there is no video signal, and no audio signal, yet it continues to remain on DV-970HD's input. During this operation the DVDO has a solid red indicator light.


Oppo BDP-83 Bluray Player:

- When the Oppo BDP-83 bluray player is powered down, the auto-input-switch operation of the VP30 seems to switch back to the next highest priority active input (indicator light on the front of the unit blinks through the different colors as it switches inputs), and the sound is properly switched. Through the TV I can hear the next-lower-priority audio track. However, the display itself is blank/black. (VP30 shows a solid blue status LED on front panel) Pushing "INFO" on the remote shows the info screen on the VP30 front panel but nothing is shown on the TV display.. still just black. Pushing that input's direct-select button on the VP30 remote has no effect. However if you first push any other direct-input-select button, the VP30 switches to that input properly (active or not). Hitting "Auto" again after that does in fact return to the previous next-highest-priority input, and this time audio and video both come through properly. I believe this problem is related to the pass-through mode of the VP30.

- Note that when the bluray player is set to 1080p (passthrough mode) and turned off (to cause this problem), and the HDMI cable is disconnected between the player and the VP30, the issue REMAINS. This indicates the VP30 has in fact switched back to the lower-priority input, yet the video output remains black (not even VP30's INFO screen shows).

- Note also that this problem only occurs when the player is set to 1080p (invoking VP30's passthrough). This strange operation does not occur when the bluray player is set to output lower resolutions (1080i or less). It seems to only occur when coming OUT of pass-through mode. This seems to reinforce the idea that it might be related to pass-through mode.

- When the bluray player is playing 1080p (passthrough on VP30) and the HDMI cable is removed during playback, the same result; blank/black screen, but audio from the next-highest-priority input.

- When in this sound-but-no-video mode, cycling power on the VP30 causes the VP30 to again operate properly. (same result as forcing a different input and then hitting "auto" again.)


My equipment setup:
- Panasonic TC-P50G10 (50" plasma, 2009 model year)
- VP30
- Oppo DV-970HD
- Oppo BDP-83
- Tivo series 2 (next lower priority input)
- NOTE: The same symptoms occur whether or not the TV set is actually turned on during these steps. Even with the TV off, the same situations occur. Once the TV is turned on, even though the VP30 seems to have down-selected to the next-priority input (solid blue light on VP30), there is no picture. Therefore I do not believe it is a handshaking problem with the TV set.


Have anyone seen this behavior before?

I am running firmware 1.14...

thanks,
..dane
post #6785 of 6818
Does anyone know if the VP30 will support a 3d signal? I need a scaler that will support 3d and display a resolution of 1360x768... Will the VP30 do this?
post #6786 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baller5247 View Post

Does anyone know if the VP30 will support a 3d signal? I need a scaler that will support 3d and display a resolution of 1360x768... Will the VP30 do this?

What display do you have that is 3D capable and has a resolution of 1360x768?
post #6787 of 6818
I have a Samsung PN50B450... They prevent "3d Mode" from activating without a resolution of 1360x768.
post #6788 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baller5247 View Post

Does anyone know if the VP30 will support a 3d signal? I need a scaler that will support 3d and display a resolution of 1360x768... Will the VP30 do this?

The VP30 is going on being a 5 year old design now, no one was even giving any thought at all to 3D support in a product back then.

It's highly unlikely it will even be able to just pass through a 3D signal without doing anything harmful to it, let alone support a 3D signal and be able to process/scale it in any way
post #6789 of 6818
fyi.. Sold my family room vp30 two years ago (moved to edge), now I'm looking for one again for another room.

edit- found one. thanks!

cheers,
..dane
post #6790 of 6818
Busted my VP30 out of the closet and having problems updating.

I've tried on both a USB -> Serial adapter (no success) and a Serial port PCI card (freezes every time at 982825 bytes transferred in Tera Term).

My settings are definitely correct in Tera Term and I can't use Barry's Utility, as it won't load if the iScan VP30 is in a bricked state.

Options/suggestions?
post #6791 of 6818
The new 2012 model 'Green Edge' apperantly knocks down 1 frame of lag(which is 10ms i think?) if this is true, i definitly would drop the $499....
I honestly can't stand gaming on HDTV's 'unless' they're dishing out 16ms of input lag which is the lowest it can get, anything more and the experience is hammpered for me....

My LG 42" 2011 LCD LK450 for non HD gaming such as the wii runs in 16ms(That sets history now) while my new Panasonic X5 20120 Plasma feels like it's in the mid 20's or so. if I could get my Panasonic knocked down to 1 frame lower of input lag i'd be extatic. cool.gif
As is, i refuse to play most games on it

IGN had an article back in 06' for the VP20 and VP720 and claimed that these devices would deliver a LAG FREE gaming experience. is this true?


LINK > http://ca.ign.com/articles/2006/07/14/dvdo-the-final-solution-to-hdtv-gaming-lag

"The particularly exciting news from the gaming perspective, is, however, the fact that ABT has released a new ABT102D Precision Deinterlacing Card for the iScan VP20 and VP30 that performs rapid deinterlacing processing, able to produce less than one frame delay with edge adaptive deinterlacing (Game Mode 1) and less than two frames with edge and motion adaptive processing (Game Mode 2). The add-in card was designed to update the iScan models with ABT's specifically designed deinterlacing algorithms that were designed specifically to allow for the best support of gaming possible."

So it seems that 'with' this new ATB102D card for the iScan VP20 and VP30,
input lag when in 'Game Mode 1' is reduced to less than one frame, which
means that you're getting a below '10ms' gaming experience.
Edited by WaveBoy - 7/13/12 at 9:58am
post #6792 of 6818
Wether an external VP can help you to reduce the lag on your HDTV when gaming or not, depends on your sources.

A VP can't reduce the minimal lag present on your TV set when you feed a progressive resolution through HDMI or VGA already. It can only reduce the analogue processing on SD sources IN COMPARISON to your TV set. If you have a TV which has 2 frames of lag via HDMI, but 6 frames via SD Component, then a processor like the Edge or the VP30 w/ ABT102 card will help you to get the lag down to sub-3-frames.

Check the website linked in my signature for extensive reviews of every deinterlacer and scaler in regard to it's gaming capabilities.

PS: 1 frame = 16ms.
Edited by Fudoh - 7/13/12 at 1:53pm
post #6793 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

Wether an external VP can help you to reduce the lag on your HDTV when gaming or not, depends on your sources.
A VP can't reduce the minimal lag present on your TV set when you feed a progressive resolution through HDMI or VGA already. It can only reduce the analogue processing on SD sources IN COMPARISON to your TV set. If you have a TV which has 2 frames of lag via HDMI, but 6 frames via SD Component, then a processor like the Edge or the VP30 w/ ABT102 card will help you to get the lag down to sub-3-frames.
Check the website linked in my signature for extensive reviews of every deinterlacer and scaler in regard to it's gaming capabilities.
PS: 1 frame = 16ms.

Well in my situation this would be for the Wii using component cables/analog when set in 480p(Does the reduction in input lag apply to ED sources?).. I'm currently checking out the website and it's obviously very overwhelming with the amount of detail let alone the different amount of products that
are available. Pretty impressive! Also that's dissapointing to here that it has no effect on HD sources 'or' through HDMI....Which would have zero effect on the Wii U via HDMI/720p.

I can't deal with the 25ms(around) that i'm currently getting with my Plasma, ever since i took the plunge into the HDTV world i've had nothing but problems
with gaming. I have a CRT tube for my retro consoles so that's covered, but for modern gaming and on an HDTV i I can't stand anything over 16ms.
post #6794 of 6818
I really really doubt that you can actually feel the difference between 16ms (1 frame) and 25ms (1.5 frames). Maybe for a short time after you switch, but if you were to spend a few hours on the plasma, it should be ok. General consense is that everything under 2 frames (<32ms) is pretty much acceptable.

Usually ED sources are handled just like HD, but many TVs add more delay on the component inputs. For the Wii you could get a HDMI dongle (like the Neoya one), which does nothing but convert the component singnal into HDMI. 480p remains 480p and the conversion is lagfree. Avoid the ones that do extra scaling, since they might add an extra frame of delay.
post #6795 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

I really really doubt that you can actually feel the difference between 16ms (1 frame) and 25ms (1.5 frames). Maybe for a short time after you switch, but if you were to spend a few hours on the plasma, it should be ok. General consense is that everything under 2 frames (<32ms) is pretty much acceptable.
Usually ED sources are handled just like HD, but many TVs add more delay on the component inputs. For the Wii you could get a HDMI dongle (like the Neoya one), which does nothing but convert the component singnal into HDMI. 480p remains 480p and the conversion is lagfree. Avoid the ones that do extra scaling, since they might add an extra frame of delay.


I'm used to gaming on lag free CRT Tube TV's(i still have one on the side for retro gaming on the NES, SNES, Genesis and Atari 2600.),
and believe me i can tell the difference between 0ms and 16ms(Apperantly my LG Lk450 LCD is 16ms, well at least
the ISP panel. I have the VA and non HD gaming such as the wii works pretty great. but saying it's great isn't enough, measurements are measurements.)...Now, 16ms(If my LG LCD is in fact 16m) is absolutely fantastic for digital controls, there is
a 'slight' difference in comparison to 0 but it's perfectly fine for me and i'm more than happy with it. but when it comes to 'motion controls' the difference is pretty night and day, you need every single precious ms since motion controls are
1:1. Wii pointer controls for titles such as Metroid Prime 3, RE4: Wii edition, Elebits and many more examples are jaw dropping on a Lag free CRT tube TV, they're flat out amazing. on my LG they're still pretty great, but not up to snuff. But on my Plasma there's a noticable difference in comparison to my LCD and it's preventing me from even gaming on it. It's still playable and everything, but there's more weight,/sluggishness added to the controls And that kind of breaks the experience for me. it's just a bit worse if anything.

I have the Panasonic X5, and last years X3 was noted as having 16ms as far as the UK model is concerned, which most likely doesn't apply to the US model.Anyways, I always thought switching to HDMI or just playing HD titles on an HDTV in general would introduce more lag considering the HDTV is doing more of that special shnazzy proccessing in order to deliver that HD picture. Then again i've tested out both 'composite' and component for the wii on my LCD and Plasma, and composite dishes out more input lag, where as switching back to component reduces it so i guess HDMI would knock it down a bit more and i'd definitly take that chance and spend the cash.

That aside, you're saying if i opt for a Neoya HDMI dongle (It doesn't do any of that extra scaling i'm guessing?)i'll get a reduction in input lag, or there's a good chance? By how much would you guess?
Edited by WaveBoy - 7/13/12 at 5:54pm
post #6796 of 6818
Quote:
That aside, you're saying if i opt for a Neoya HDMI dongle (It doesn't do any of that extra scaling i'm guessing?)i'll get a reduction in input lag, or there's a good chance? By how much would you guess?
If you have a 360 or a PS3 you could simply test the component inputs versus the HDMI inputs. On my Sony HX9 the component inputs add considerably more lang than the HDMI inputs.
post #6797 of 6818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

If you have a 360 or a PS3 you could simply test the component inputs versus the HDMI inputs. On my Sony HX9 the component inputs add considerably more lang than the HDMI inputs.

Good idea. Actually i do have a PS3 which i use with HDMI, i just need to find my other pair of component cables to do the test.
For now, I could do a comparison to both Mega Man 9 via Component on the Wii and Mega Man 9 Via HDMI on the PS3.
But i keep thinking HD content takes a hit performance wise because of the extra processing, at least that's the case on my LG Lk450....feed it component through the wii 480p/and it works great. Feed it HDMI on the PS3 and it's sluggish.
The difference in input lag between composite and component on my wii however is night and day. time to test! XP
post #6798 of 6818
Alright, so i tested out Mega Man 9 via Component for the Wii and Mega Man 9 for the PS3 via HDMI.
Right off the bat the PS3 version had less lag, but i soon discovered that was because the Wii version for some reason is limmited to 480'i'
where as the PS3 version runs in progressive scan. So instead, i booted up Mega Man 5(which has the same exact controls as MM9) on the Wii's Virtual console
and it ran in 480p. The PS3 version of MM9 progressive scan and MM5 on the wii in progressive scan seem to feel about the same, if anything the Wii version may ever so slightly have the edge...if that.

As much as i'd love to have color management 'on' does turning it off reduce input lag?
And what the hell, i think i'll just go for the HDMI Neoya adapter and see if it actually does make a difference. Apperantly, based on comparison
footage it actually makes the image look brighter and a bit cleaner so it has that going for it at least.
post #6799 of 6818
Well, thought my VP30 was officially bricked for good just from trying to update it to 1.14 and DVDO/Simplaylabs wanted $400 for the servicing. Pretty ridiculous, since for that price I could just buy a brand-new Edge Green or XRGB Framemeister.

Using the Bootloader however, I was finally able to get it to detect in Barry's Utility. This software was able to make it past the error, restoring it back to full functionality!

It still slowed down/"froze" for a moment at the same part where Tera Term always froze (at 982825 bytes) but Barry's Utility threw it another command and the update kept chugging along.

Thank you Barry Gordon for this amazing piece of software which restored my 6 year old VP30 to full strength and saved me $400 dollars! smile.gif
post #6800 of 6818
Alright, so let me get this straight. There is absolutely no device out there
that can reduce input lag through HDMI or component for HD gaming content? Are we destined to be plagued by these stupid degrees of HDTV gaming lag for the rest of videogame enternity? tongue.gif
It's no wonder CRT's are coming back like Vinyl records.
post #6801 of 6818
That's right.

On some TVs there're tricks to minimize the lag though. Some Samsung TVs - for example - have an extremely low lag when fed with a DVI Signal, while the same port with HDMI adds several frames of lag. If you're into gaming, it's just a matter of picking the right TV.
post #6802 of 6818
Loosing HDMI inputs on my VP30:

So I seem to have lost the functionality of first one and now two HDMI Inputs.

First, the #2 HDMI input went completely dark and I do not get a blue LED Operating light indicating that the unit has successfuilly completed a HDCP "handshake".

Now the #1 HDMI input gives me a green screen when I have a DVR plugged in to it but I do get a blue LED operating light indicating that the unit has successfully completed the HDCP "handshake".

Is there reason to suspect that this 6-8 year old unit is simply starting to fail? Power supply is good but the unit is always on...

Is there reason to suspect that one of my kids or wife may have inadvertantly fouled up the input adjust? I can't think of what might have given met the green screen.

I guess I'm off to pick up a HDMI switcher as a work around.
Edited by Eric Minden - 8/17/12 at 2:18pm
post #6803 of 6818
Hello,

I am in Canada and I am using my Sega Saturn with SCART RGB NTSC compatible cable => YUV Converter. I am thinking the Vp30 would help me connect my Saturn setup to my old HD Prima Plasma TV. Would the 240p signal work through component to the Vp30, then to my Plasma? (it does not work if I connect component setup directly to the TV).

Thanks.

P.S. Does the APT102 card work with 720p sources to eliminate lag?
post #6804 of 6818
Hi, I cannot get anything to show up on the RGBHV input. The output works fine. I'm trying a PC at various resolutions (uses a DVI to XVGA adapter/cable) and the Sega Dreamcast at 480p, getting nothing. Is the input broken? I know interlaced signals can't go through there, but everything I've tried is progressive. Is it because I don't think this VP30 has the ABT102D card? Info says signal type unknown.
post #6805 of 6818
Sorry to bump this ancient thread but just scored a great VP-30 ( my very first scaler) I bought this strictly to reduce the overscan on my very little used but loved Pioneer Elite 620-HD RPTV. I read this entire thread and scrutinized some vague posts trying to get an answer. My Pioneer will only accept 1080i for HD. I have a Directv H20 HD Sat box, HD-DVD and Sony PS3 for Bluray all set to 1080i. I don't want pass through because I need to use the under scan feature to reduce the Pioneer overscan from 7% to now 1.5% using the VP-30 and of course Gamma and color correction. My PQ has increased dramatically but am confused about one issue that has never been answered in this entire thread.

When I input 1080i and output 1080i (using component cables no HDMI at all- the Pioneer 620 has no DVI or HDMI) am I still getting 1080i or 560p? I know the VP-30 doesn't de-interlace 1080i and uses a bob and weave from 560p but that's when going from 1080i to 1080p. What happens when going straight 1080i to 1080i and not pass through as I need some scaling done when using under scan and gamma and color correction along with slight image shift as my Directv has a 5% shift to the left for some reason. I'm hoping I'm still getting 1080i and not 560p bobbed and weaved. Another question is can I use pass through with the BNC input and outputs and still use under scan and gamma and color correction along with image shift. I'm currently using component in and component out using BNC attachments. Any help to answer this would put my mind at ease that I am getting the full resolution.
post #6806 of 6818
The VP30 will always deinterlace first, then resize and postprocessing and then reinterlace to 1080i.

Passthrough means "unprocessed", so you won't have access to any image controls using this function.

I would expect that your Pioneer Elite RPTV doesn't do great things with 1080i either, so you might try if 720p input TO the VP30 doesn't work better. This way, the processor won't use it's sub-par HD deinterlacing and you gain vertical resolution (at the expense of horizontal one). Give it a try!
post #6807 of 6818
Pioneer CRT RPTV's do not accept a 720p input, all he will get, is either a blank or a really messed up looking screen.
post #6808 of 6818
Fudoh, Johnla is right using 720p will just get me a blank screen only option is 1080i for HD content but thanks for your response.
post #6809 of 6818
I understand, but I was talking 720p INTO the VP30 - for example from a BD player.... The VP30's output remains at 1080i.

This way the VP30 doesn't have to apply deinterlacing to the incoming signal.
post #6810 of 6818
Fudoh interesting thought. I originally had my Directv in Native format for stations broadcasting in 720p and 1080i but the colors looked bad on channels broadcasting in 720p that I now just leave the Sat box at 1080i for all channels and my PQ looks great. Gonna test out my Sony PS3 and HD-DVD in 720p and see if it looks better than 1080i thanks for the suggestion hadn't thought of that.
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