HD MPEG-2 Test Patterns - Page 9

Hi Thomas,

I just tried, but it doesn't play either :P

Ronald.

Ok, I am in bussinnes now :-)
I took the original hd ire transport streams and converted them to SD pal format using tmpgenc. Now the dreambox is playing them :-)

By the way if someone wants them I can make them available on my website...

Edit: here they are: http://www.ronaldverlaan.com/downloa...e-patterns.tgz

Does anyone follow me here? NTSC/ATSC is 60 fields per second. Is there a test pattern I can use that will prove to me what field is being dropped? I know the hardware and software I use is limited to 30fps and they are dropping either the odd or even frame.

Thanks again.

Ron, I know that you said using your SD encoder is more of a pain (and that you're very busy) but any chance for SD versions of the 75% Rec601 color window patterns to play on non-HD DVRs?

cheers and thanks again for all the patterns,


--tom

Thank you very much for your efforts. However, my source player (Sling Catcher) is not playing nice with your .ts file. I converted it to mpg, but it still doesn't play nice. Both .TS and MPG play nice on my PC, but when I convert them to MPG the file size is reduced significantly (from 70M to about 15M).

HDTVtoMPEG2_v1.11.94 just doesn't work and MPEG_Streamclip_1.2 works, but again reduces the file size considerably.

Do you have any suggestions?

Why is the file size reduced?

Maybe my hardware is having a problem with the video bitrate? The file compatibility for my players seems to indicate .TS and 20mbps is compatible:
http://support.slingmedia.com/get/KB-005704.html

Is there something that is non standard with your TS files? Thanks again.

The TS file is mostly NULL packets to pad it out to ATSC rate, MPG file just had the video/audio data and strips out the NULL packets

dr1394,

http://www.w6rz.net/overscancrop.zip works! It must be the chroma. At your convenience, can you redo the http://www.w6rz.net/interlace.zip with 4:2:0 chroma?

Thanks again.

Woah does your site have a READY TO BURN FILE?, that is great.

I am reading the entire thread, I see you posted countless of zip for different things

did you put all of those in your ready to burn file or would I need to DL these zips

separate?

Thank you so so so much. The file works great. My results are here as far as the Slingbox is concerned (not to confuse the Slingcatcher since that was just my source player):

The Slingbox does not maintain the NTSC/ATSC signal! Bogus! It drops half the fields. So my follow up question to you is:

"The simplest thing would be a pattern where all odd frames had a number 1 and all even frames have a number 2."

Did you make the number 1 the odd frames and number 2 the even frames? If so, the Slingbox only show the 1's. The odd frames. Only when I pause the video do I sometimes get 2's (50% chance). As soon I resume the video, it goes back to 1's.

If you have time, could you make the same pattern, but make it a 1280x720x60p video (progressive.zip?)? I wonder if the Slingbox HD drops half the fields when dealing with a progressive ATSC video. Thanks again.

Thank you again for your help. This is my results:

I place my source into 720/60p mode. When I play the file and stream in through my Slingbox, it picks either 1 or 2. If I pause it, it will pause at either 1 or 2 (50% chance), and it will maintain the number when I resume play.

It appears the hardware has trouble picking up the fields and still only wants to stream at 30fps so it has to dump the other field.

If I set my source to 720/60p and stream the interlaced file, it essentially behaves just like the progressive.ts file, since the source is scaling/deinterlacing the signal and causes the Slingbox, again, to choose between what field to stream and what field to ignore.

I would assume that this limitation is in their encoders. I recall that WMV has some interlacing limitations, maybe not VC-1. Slingmedia's eralier products are based on WMV. The Pro HD is based on H.264, but is backwards compatible.

Very sad. I figure that their older product lines (Slingbox Classic) will be limited to horrid deinterlacing and 30fps. I am hopeful that with your help, we have shed some light on their newer product lines (Slingbox Pro HD) and maybe someday enable better ATSC/NTSC and interlaced support. Thanks for your efforts.

Some other questions, since you seem so knowledgeable.

For the sake of my next questions, 60fps is 59.94 and 30 is 29.97.

What does the industry refer to NTSC as 30 fps when it's 60 fields per second? Decoders look at your interlaced.ts file and list it as 30fps? Is it really only 30 fps when the source is encoded as such where the broadcaster's source is 30fps and they want full resolution (see ex. 1)? I know they do this with telecine film, You get 24fps and maintain the film in full resolution.

Would it be more appropriate to list A/NTSC as 60i? I can see some shows on TV that want 30fps and want to utilize the full resolution for each frame.

Correct me if I'm wrong:

ex. 1

broadcaster wants to show a TV show at 30fps in full resolution:
1st field (top) is 1920x540 - frame 1
2nd field (bot) is 1920x540 - frame 1
frame 1 1920x1080 complete
3rd field (top) is 1920x540 - frame 2
4th field (bot) is 1920x540 - frame 2
frame 2 1920x1080 complete
repeat to get full HD resolution for 30fps

Is the above example normal? This to me is 30fps or 30p. Is this a standard? This is like telecine, but for 30fps, not 24fps.

ex. 2

broadcaster wants to show you the super bowl in 60 fps in interlaced resolution.
1st field (top) is 1920x540 - frame 1
2nd field (bot) is 1920x540 - frame 2
3rd field (top) is 1920x540 - frame 3
4th field (bot) is 1920x540 - frame 4

Is the above example normal? This to me is 60fps or 60i. Is this a standard?

Why does the industry use the identification 30i in some cases? *If* ex. 2 is identified as 30i, then why isn't 720p identified as 30p. It just seems inconsistent here.

Am I making any sense here? Thanks again.

What if there is motion between the fields for all frames? Would you still consider this as 30i? There seems like there should be a distinction between this to avoid confusion when the material needs to be deinterlaced. If there is no motion between mated fields, then the decoder should be smart enough to create a 30p presentation otherwise it should scale/deinterlace to 60p.


Ah, I get it! This is a digital encode/decoder thing. So a 30i encode is really a 30p encode (for sake of argument), BUT when it is decoded it shows top field first, then bottom, and repeat. This ends up producing a 60 images per second on interlaced displays. On a computer or progressive TV, you are at the mercy of the decoder in how it will deinterlace the stream. Interesting. Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

My last question is:
How does one determine if an encode is 30i or 30p? It seems like computers and mediaplayers just say, 29.97 fps. I'm left to guess.

Thanks again for all the great information and responses.

What unique patterns, Ron, thank you !!

Just working on a way to visually show the differences between Catalyst ControlCenter's deinterl. options using DXVA (ati's HD GPU series) *here* (in German).
But on the pics you may see what I mean - the differences are very slightly noticeable.

Using your "Alternating black/white 1, 2, 3 and 4 pixel strips with moving interlaced bar 1920x1080", is a better way to show the diff. between just Vector- and MotionAdaptive:



See the white line near Schumachers car? (out of your "sdpaltest.zip" but same with 1080i proportional to the number of horiz. lines 576->1080)
"Normal" interlaced video shows the effect only with such diagolal bright lines moving somehow diagonal (or vertical?) and not too fast.

So I made a pic how a pattern could look like, maybe if it was...
- first interlaced still life for some seconds (to show Bob + Adaptive)
- then moving (like your "Film vertical and horizontal resolution test") but - diagonally left down to right up and back - or up-down (to show Wave, Motion + VectorAdaptive)
...this should finally blow up the ati-mashine?? :-)

cut out, resized:


Moving interlaced bar? Don't know, maybe the moving pic is enough..
--- Europe is PAL country so 25 fps interlaced would be a good thing !

If that is just too much I like your work anyways.. perhaps just a 25fps version of "Alternating black/white 1, 2, 3 and 4 pixel strips with moving interlaced bar 1920x1080"?

Craig

Thanks so much Ron. It worked perfectly on the SD TIVO.

Once again, thanks for all the effort on these patterns.


--tom

..did it myself now, Patterns 1080i + SD but thanks Ron, yours helped to give ideas! Any suggestions how to make it better?
Here's the thread

craig

Hi,

i wonder if there is any screenshot or description what vertrezmotion.ts should look like with different deinterlacers, so how can I compare it to what I actually get?

I am looking for a test pattern like to ramp.ts, basically I want to see if BTB and WTW are being passed through. Problem with ramp is both of those are at the edge of the pattern and the TV I am using is overscanning them away.

TIA

I'm looking for a HD 'Resolution Wedge' pattern, or whatever it is called similar to what HD Net uses (or use to). Something that 'Joe Average' can see on his display w/o test equipment. I see plenty of patterns with resolution bursts (whatever they are called), but the consistent problem with these is none of them are labeled to the frequency they represent. How is one suppose to know what (frequency burst) you are looking at?? I know those 'wedges' aren't the most exact method, but it does make thing a whole lot easier.

Hi,
i'm looking for the HD IRE 0-100 patterns, but not as video. Because my german IP-TV mediaReceiver doesn't play any extern videos at the moment i need the patterns in stills (bmp?)

Can you help me?