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Pioneer Disappearing EPG - Page 21

post #601 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

Interesting! Could there be some diff. in the two setups: Pitman thru digital receiver, rgazzara direct from source thru splitter?

(I think that's correct for each???)

Quite possibly the cause of the difference. Perhaps when a STB is used, the TVGOS acts differently than with a direct RF input. Interesting.
post #602 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickie View Post

Well, the reason that they are the same in the morning, after a successful download of EPG data is that when that occurs, the last channel the TV was "tuned" to is in fact the TVGOS channel. i. e. when TVGOS fires up at the scheduled time it goes in and finds the TVGOS channel and tunes to it. Downloads the data then shuts itself off. So that is the channel is gets tuned to.

I'm fairly certain that VBI channel changes depending on what channel you are tuning, though I dont's know how fast it cycles aand how frequently the TVGOS actually records what VBI it's on.

Again, I disagree. I have been tuned to channel 6 for the past 2 hours. The VBI is showing the station it was tuned to when the last EPG data download was attempted (which was about 6 hours ago).
post #603 of 859
On the VBI thing, I remember doing some tests where I had to go into the debug screens several times in a row, looking for "effects."

I noticed some "strange" things happening in the VBI/Host lines, where things seemed to "persist" from the last time I looked in the debug screens. The same channels showed up, even after I physically changed channels when I re-entered the debug screens.

Maybe this is playing a part in the "abby-normal" behavior!?
post #604 of 859
I have a new TVGOS problem on my Pioneer 531H, and wondered if any has a solution to it? It is far worse than the disappearing TVGOS which could usually be fixed overnight or worse case in two days. This time the TVGOS won't display at all, nor will the setup prompt ever appear. This happened after getting a REPAIR message on a DVD-RW disc which stayed on screen for over 2 days. When I finally saw the message about REPAIR failed, and could finally eject the disc, the TV Guide would no longer display at all, with or without the grid. No error appears, just won't ever show up. Timer Recording screen won't come up either.

I called the Pioneer help desk, and they said the machine would have to be returned to them for repair. Sounds like software corruption on the hard drive, but they don't have a way for customer to reload.

I've gone through the STOP + Power button combination to reset it a couple of times, but no luck so far.

So I am busy burning/high speed copying all the content to DVD, which still works fine, before I break down and send it back for repairs. Still hoping it might magically fix itself.
post #605 of 859
At least try the "high-tech" solution first (after offloading HDD):

Unplug overnight?
post #606 of 859
Sorry, that I don't have any advice to offer you -- I'm just writing this note to document that my STOP + POWER combo on my 531H doesn't do anything at all. Yes, I tried that a couple of times during my persistent problem -- with no effect.
post #607 of 859
Thread Starter 
Just a reminder that the reset commands STOP + POWER need to be initiated from the buttons on the recorder itself.

Using these same commands on the remote won't reset the unit.

The manual isn't too clear about this and their are duplicate buttons on both the remote and the unit itself.
post #608 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

Just a reminder that the reset commands STOP + POWER need to be initiated from the buttons on the recorder itself.

Using these same commands on the remote won't reset the unit.

The manual isn't too clear about this and their are duplicate buttons on both the remote and the unit itself.

Well, well, well...yep, that's what I've been trying to do -- enter the commands on the remote. I'm a relative newbie with the DVR-531H, so didn't know this.

Here's an update on my frustrating situation.

'EPG' displays all the time on the front console...faint whirring noise heard from unit.
No listings in TV Guide program listing OR channel display area, yet multiple search functions yield programming listings out to 8 days. Use of hacker key to display diagnostic information reveals blank entry for 'Host chan'.

Actions to date:

Have gone through multiple full resets, but haven't successfully tried the 'reset to factory defaults' yet, since I've been trying to do it via the remote. Will try that next. Have sent email to both local PBS station and Time-Warner asking if there have been any changes to the ways TVGOS info is being transmitted through the local analog cable...no responses yet.

The saga continues...
post #609 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitman View Post

Again, I disagree. I have been tuned to channel 6 for the past 2 hours. The VBI is showing the station it was tuned to when the last EPG data download was attempted (which was about 6 hours ago).

OK, I believe you, but that's not the way my Panasonic E-500 and E-65 work. If I have the recorder on and I go into the TVGOS debug screens, the VBI channel is always the channel the recorder is currently tuned to. If I change the channel, the VBI channel changes also.
post #610 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

OK, I believe you, but that's not the way my Panasonic E-500 and E-65 work. If I have the recorder on and I go into the TVGOS debug screens, the VBI channel is always the channel the recorder is currently tuned to. If I change the channel, the VBI channel changes also.

That's very interesting. Do you use cable box?
post #611 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitman View Post

Again, I disagree. I have been tuned to channel 6 for the past 2 hours. The VBI is showing the station it was tuned to when the last EPG data download was attempted (which was about 6 hours ago).


Pitman,

This probably isn't an important point, but I tuned my Pio to Channel 2 around mid-morning. Around 5:00PM I checked debug. It shows a VBI is channel 2, Host channel is 10.

I then tuned to channel 6, just went back in (1hr-15min) and it still shows channel 2. Apparently the tuned to channel doesnt get chagned immediately in the Pio as it does in the Panasonic. But I do know that a VBI exists in all broadcasts, it may or may not carry data. That's probably up to the network and or the station. But it exists. Cable channels may strip the data from the VBI but they cant remove it. It's a necessary part of the signal. It's there to give the electron gun time to move from the bottom of the screen to the top (I'm still taking broadcast TV here).

They use this non-displayed interval to transmit non-displayed data, such as V-chip ratings and program titles.

It sounds like it takes somewhere between 2 hrs and 6 hours for the TVGOS to save it.

EDIT: rechecked after 3.5 hours, VBI channel in the debug screen now shows 0. So I have no idea what the VBI channel is doing in the TVGOS system.



Rick
post #612 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitman View Post

That's very interesting. Do you use cable box?

No, I use direct RF input to my recorder for the TVGOS.
post #613 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickie View Post

EDIT: rechecked after 3.5 hours, VBI channel in the debug screen now shows 0. So I have no idea what the VBI channel is doing in the TVGOS system.

Well, I notice on mine it's always on 808 first thing in the morning, which is my analog host station. Which is good. But, later during the day when it tries to download EPG, because I've already received it overnight (Gemstar sends out the same transmission 4X's daily), the VBI channel will bounce to 69. I'm not sure why it settles on that station, but it does. And I know its because TVGOS was looking for new data, but there was none.

Now, what I have also noticed as a difference between the Pioneer, and the Toshiba, is that everytime you turn off the Pioneer, it grabs a hold of the cable box (or cable) and tunes to the host channel to attempt a download. If there is nothing to download, then it will bounce to another station and whatever station it ends up on will show up as the VBI. So, the VBI may change, if you turn your DVR off for 5 minutes and then turn it back on. See if I'm right. In my case, the Toshiba does not contantly possess the cable box every time I turn off the machine. It just awaits the transmission from Gemstar.

There are some differences in the way Pioneer and Toshiba implement TVGOS. Overall, Toshiba has a smoother and more responsive interface.
post #614 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickie View Post

Pitman,

This probably isn't an important point, but I tuned my Pio to Channel 2 around mid-morning. Around 5:00PM I checked debug. It shows a VBI is channel 2, Host channel is 10.

I then tuned to channel 6, just went back in (1hr-15min) and it still shows channel 2. Apparently the tuned to channel doesnt get chagned immediately in the Pio as it does in the Panasonic. But I do know that a VBI exists in all broadcasts, it may or may not carry data. That's probably up to the network and or the station. But it exists. Cable channels may strip the data from the VBI but they cant remove it. It's a necessary part of the signal. It's there to give the electron gun time to move from the bottom of the screen to the top (I'm still taking broadcast TV here).

They use this non-displayed interval to transmit non-displayed data, such as V-chip ratings and program titles.

It sounds like it takes somewhere between 2 hrs and 6 hours for the TVGOS to save it.

EDIT: rechecked after 3.5 hours, VBI channel in the debug screen now shows 0. So I have no idea what the VBI channel is doing in the TVGOS system.
Rick

That's very interesting!!! It appears the more we discuss the TVGOS system in the Pioneers and the Panasonics the more differences we find. I wonder if it is because the Panasonics I have are a year older (circa 2004) then the Pioneer series with the TVGOS (circa 2005, I believe). Perhaps the TVGOS firmware changed over that period.

We need to hear from someone with a 2005 Panasonic unit with TVGOS. Any EH-50 or EH-60 users care to join in?
post #615 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitman View Post

Well, I notice on mine it's always on 808 first thing in the morning, which is my analog host station. Which is good. But, later during the day when it tries to download EPG, because I've already received it overnight (Gemstar sends out the same transmission 4X's daily), the VBI channel will bounce to 69. I'm not sure why it settles on that station, but it does. And I know its because TVGOS was looking for new data, but there was none.

Now, what I have also noticed as a difference between the Pioneer, and the Toshiba, is that everytime you turn off the Pioneer, it grabs a hold of the cable box (or cable) and tunes to the host channel to attempt a download. If there is nothing to download, then it will bounce to another station and whatever station it ends up on will show up as the VBI. So, the VBI may change, if you turn your DVR off for 5 minutes and then turn it back on. See if I'm right. In my case, the Toshiba does not contantly possess the cable box every time I turn off the machine. It just awaits the transmission from Gemstar.

There are some differences in the way Pioneer and Toshiba implement TVGOS. Overall, Toshiba has a smoother and more responsive interface.


Pitman,

When I bought the Pio, the other one I was looking at was the Toshiba. I have TVGOS on my Toshiba TV and it works flawlessly (for two yers now). I went with Pio because of price (Wal-mart has good return policy) and some concern over how base IRE level was handled by Toshiba.

I may recosider the Toshiba, or based on some of Rgazza reports, may look closer at Panasonics.

I'm absolutely convinced that TVGOS can be implemeted without problems, since my TVGOS on my television works fine.

Unfortunately, I think Pioneer has refused to accept that they have a problem and just want to pass the buck to Gemstar.

Rick
post #616 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

That's very interesting!!! It appears the more we discuss the TVGOS system in the Pioneers and the Panasonics the more differences we find. I wonder if it is because the Panasonics I have are a year older (circa 2004) then the Pioneer series with the TVGOS (circa 2005, I believe). Perhaps the TVGOS firmware changed over that period.

We need to hear from someone with a 2005 Panasonic unit with TVGOS. Any EH-50 or EH-60 users care to join in?

I have TVGOS on a 2 year old Toshiba television, it looks very similar, but it is slightly different. For one thing there is a messages menu option, and that's where you start to get into the debug screen. A few other minor diffs that I didn't notice until I started checking (HOST channel in debug is shown in hex for example) Oh and one other minor thing, it has worked flawlessly for two years on same antenna my Pio is now on.

Maybe Pio needs to do some head hunting in the Panasonic campus.

Rick
post #617 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickie View Post

I have TVGOS on a 2 year old Toshiba television, it looks very similar, but it is slightly different. For one thing there is a messages menu option, and that's where you start to get into the debug screen. A few other minor diffs that I didn't notice until I started checking (HOST channel in debug is shown in hex for example) Oh and one other minor thing, it has worked flawlessly for two years on same antenna my Pio is now on.

Maybe Pio needs to do some head hunting in the Panasonic campus.

Rick

Your description matches mine in my Panasonics exactly. I get the host and VBI channels in hex, and I have to go to the "messages" screen to get into the debug screens. And, my TVGOS (at least from the direct RF input) has been almost perfect for about 8 months.

Sounds like we have the same TVGOS version, and that the version on the Pioneers is different. That may explain the differences and the problems.

The 2005 Panasonics (EH-50 [and EH-60 in Canada]) should have the same TVGOS version as the Pioneers. Can somebody with an EH-50 or EH-60 care to comment about their TVGOS? I seem to remember reading that the EH-50 owners were having problems with timer recordings, and that Panasonic uploaded a new firmware file for the these recorders.
post #618 of 859
Here's an update to my situation. I did a hard reset (Stop + On) on the recorder last night. followed by another full initial setup process and TVGOS setup. This morning, I had TV Guide program listings and entries in the 'channel display' area for the first time in about a week and a half. Also, there was actually a number (my local PBS station) in the Host channel reference in the diagnostic screens.

Of course, I lost all my scheduled recordings, too. Apparently, this is the true fix...I just wish there were a 'softer' one that didn't wipe out the future recording schedule.

Back in bidness.
post #619 of 859
I did a hard reset a couple of days ago for the usual reasons. The downloading started immediately and all was going well until last night when I pressed the tvguide button to access the listings, etc. The tvguide box came up, but was not legible, just a blur.

I did a hard reset this morning, followed by initial setup, but after that, the tvguide screen did not appear at all. The Home Menu button works, but when I press tvguide on it, nothing happens. I've also tried using the tvguide button on the remote, but still nothing. It's as if the machine works, but the tvguide software has disappeared altogether.

Has anyone heard of this one before or have any suggestions? Thanks.
post #620 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

Just a reminder that the reset commands STOP + POWER need to be initiated from the buttons on the recorder itself.

Using these same commands on the remote won't reset the unit.

The manual isn't too clear about this and their are duplicate buttons on both the remote and the unit itself.

Would like to let everyone know that ever since I implimented Aydu'd fix my TVGOS has been working flawlessly for the past 3 weeks. I definitely think that he solved the problem. Previously I would get the "Rebuilding" message about 3 days after all 8 days were loaded. I definitely reccomend using this fix.
post #621 of 859
Hi guys -

Just another followup ... I had this happen to me again and my TVGOS reset procedure (on page 4 of this thread) worked again.

The only thing I'd add is that after the TVGOS reset (653...), you need to do a power off, then listen for the hard drive activity to stop (a minute at most) then PULL THE POWER CORD and let it power off for 10-15 seconds. Then plug the power back in and wait a minute or so before powering on. This forces a clean reboot of the machine, and only after I did that did I get the EPG process to continue.

A key thing to look for after a TVGOS reset is whether the clock says local time or GMT. After the TVGOS reset, mine still had local time. Only after the deep power cycle did the clock revert to GMT. And then it did the usual recovery ... learn local time, get channel lineup (which I need to then edit), get listings, etc. I did NOT lose my scheduled recordings and did NOT lose the recordings on the hard drive.

- Chris
post #622 of 859
.... which is the drawback of the Stop+On full reset: you lose your scheduled recordings.
post #623 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC47 View Post

Just another followup ... I had this happen to me again and my TVGOS reset procedure (on page 4 of this thread) worked again.

Do you really have only 9 OTA channels in your setup?

If so, and you're having "reset" problems, that might blow the theory that there is TVGOS "overload" due to too many channels to keep track of?

An interesting "head scratcher"...maybe???
post #624 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

Do you really have only 9 OTA channels in your setup?

If so, and you're having "reset" problems, that might blow the theory that there is TVGOS "overload" due to too many channels to keep track of?

An interesting "head scratcher"...maybe???

Not necessarily Wab. I also only have 9 (actually 7 I think) channels turned on in the TVGOS. But in my area the download includes OTA and quite a few (a whole lot) cable channels, even though I tell it no cable.

Everything but OTA gets turned off automatically in the TVGOS, I only need to turn off some out of town OTA signals when I set up, and rearrange the channels. In any event, the data stream that gets downloaded includes a whole boatload of channels, We just don't see them. I assume the data is thrown into a bit bucket somewhere, but it still has to be downloaded first.

I dont know if other locations are like that, and perhaps with the new choice you reported couple of week ago for broadcast only TVGOS, maybe that will change.

Thanks,
Rick


Rick
post #625 of 859
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayTrader View Post

Would like to let everyone know that ever since I implimented Aydu'd fix my TVGOS has been working flawlessly for the past 3 weeks. I definitely think that he solved the problem. Previously I would get the "Rebuilding" message about 3 days after all 8 days were loaded. I definitely reccomend using this fix.

Glad to hear that someone else is finding success. I'm on 5 weeks of continuous EPG, without a rebuilding message.
post #626 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickie View Post

Not necessarily Wab. I also only have 9 (actually 7 I think) channels turned on in the TVGOS. But in my area the download includes OTA and quite a few (a whole lot) cable channels, even though I tell it no cable.

I think the "Aydu theory" involves number of channels that are ON, not just downloaded. I believe virtually everyone gets lots of channels "downloaded."

He turned many downloaded channels that were ON to OFF...the ones he didn't care about. The theory is that reduced the processor workload and stabilized his TVGOS. (I'm sure Aydu will correct me if this mis-states his theory.)
post #627 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickie View Post

Pitman,

When I bought the Pio, the other one I was looking at was the Toshiba. I have TVGOS on my Toshiba TV and it works flawlessly (for two yers now). I went with Pio because of price (Wal-mart has good return policy) and some concern over how base IRE level was handled by Toshiba.

I may recosider the Toshiba, or based on some of Rgazza reports, may look closer at Panasonics.

I'm absolutely convinced that TVGOS can be implemeted without problems, since my TVGOS on my television works fine.

Unfortunately, I think Pioneer has refused to accept that they have a problem and just want to pass the buck to Gemstar.

Rick

Absolutely. Well said. Pioneer puts the blame on the cable companies. The Toshiba XS34 I got when I took back the 533 works flawlessly. I am so glad I got rid of the Pioneer and went with the Toshiba. I would say that Pioneer make better receivers, and are not tops with DVRs.

It really sucks when people who buy Pioneers have to come up with these workarounds to kill EPG on their units. Why would I buy and keep a DVR that doesn't perform the way it is supposed to? TV Guide does work, and it works well on most systems. It's really a nice feature.
post #628 of 859
My DVR-633H-S last night detected a change in the "Channel Lineup", and asked me to select the correct lineup from a list that included

Comcast (3713)
Comcast (25781)
Comcast (25790)

Neither Comcast nor Pioneer know which I should select - apparently these numbers come from TVGOS. Pioneer is supposedly checking with TVGOS to see if they can get a description of these three. When I did the original setup (and the many following setups while I had EPG problems), these numbers were always followed by a short description.

I thought I'd check here and see if anyone here may know where we can get the interpretation of these channel lineup options.

Thanks.

P.S. I had EPG problems beginning in December. These cleared up in early January, and my 633 has been performing solidly since then. Comcast, of course, denied any responsibility the whole time. Last night I spoke with a Comcast tech support person that said they (Comcast) definitely had problems passing the signal during that time period, and any support person that read the daily bulletins knew about it.
post #629 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryStebbins View Post

My DVR-633H-S last night detected a change in the "Channel Lineup", and asked me to select the correct lineup from a list that included

Comcast (3713)
Comcast (25781)
Comcast (25790)

I've found that the 1st choice is always the one I subscribe to in my location. Failing all else, I'd select that one and see how the channels line up for your cable system. It's easy to go back to the system settings menu and select the "channels are wrong" selection and try each one.
post #630 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

I've found that the 1st choice is always the one I subscribe to in my location. Failing all else, I'd select that one and see how the channels line up for your cable system. It's easy to go back to the system settings menu and select the "channels are wrong" selection and try each one.

The first choice works. Previously it was the 2nd (last) choice that was the correct match. I suspect the differences are small, but you'd think they'd at least give you human-readable information!
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