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Pioneer Disappearing EPG - Page 28

post #811 of 859
Machine is now on it's 24th day without getting the 'updating listings based on your changes' message. This message used to appear every 7-8 days. And as others have mentioned, advertisements appear in the ad box on the left side of the TVGOS screen.

Is it really possible to update the software via OTA broadcasts or is this just a fluke?
post #812 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by lporter1 View Post

set the Zip Code to all zeros turn it off for at least 5 Min. then turn back on and go thru the set-up again putting in your correct Zip Code

Hi guys

Thanks lporter1, I hadn't heard that one before. And FtMgAl your timing information is veeeery interesting!

I'm the guy who made some long posts in this thread a year or so ago, about debug screens and reset procedures. And since then it's been working well, with a TVGOS (653274147) reset needed once every few months. A couple weeks ago I had to do the most recent reset and now I see advertising in TVGOS like Electric T-Bird reported. Crap

My unit's been pretty much hosed for a week now ... been through 3 resets and it doesn't seem to be recovering. I may try the 00000 reset tonight.

I should add that this TVGOS system is aggravated in my case by the fact that I view OTA channels only, relying on the local PBS OTA channel for the Gemstar TVGOS data, and that channel comes in pretty poorly for me. It's usually good enough and I get the data, but apparently not far from threshold ...
post #813 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by lporter1 View Post

I have a pioneer DVR 531. It was a year old in Nov. 06.After a short time started all of the EPG problems listed. I am using analog cable and I also have a Toshiba RD-XS34 Both are connected to a JVC TV model HD-P61R1U so I can compare operations at the same time. I have had both recorders for over a year. For the most part I prefer the Pioneer except for the Guide problem that started shortly after I got it.My Toshiba has not lost the guide at all over the same time. About 6 weeks ago I had something happen that only affected the Pioneer unit, in the box on the left of the Guide they had a notice that said " Are you having trouble receiving the guide " with instructions on how to reset it. After following the instructions my Guide has worked great. Also since then I now have advertising in the box's on the left side that change on a regular basis. These adds never appeared before on either recorder and still are only on the Pioneer. Has anyone else had this happen? It's strange that the adds aren't on the Toshiba, it's as though it received a fix from the program download. Let me know if you had this happen.
Larry


I didn't notice any rest instructions, but I did start getting advertisinga few weeks ago. My TVGOS usually lasts about 3 weeks, it's been going fine now for over 4.

Go figure.

Rick
post #814 of 859
Just an update, I am still up and running fine since using the reset I posted. I still get advertising only on the Pioneer and not my Toshiba, that I can't figure. Larry
post #815 of 859
As others have mentioned, I also started getting ads about the first of the year. After months of resets every 9 days like clockwork except when I didn't turn it on for several days, it has operated perfectly for 47 days. I have tried to diligently follow my own suggestions (mostly SLOW DOWN when editing) but I know that I haven't been perfect yet there have been no more problems. That is until this morning.

It was recording a program when I went to TVGOS to check what was on next. I saw the ad for a "fix" for the first time but did not go to it. I only moved right to see what was on the same channel in an hour. It moved 30 minutes fine but then locked up. The remote is still working (I can open the DVD tray) indicating it isn't a total lockup like I have seen before. But I can't change the TVGOS screen or get out of it. The preview window at the top is still showing the current selection but the clock isn't changing in the preview though the front clock is working. In the past I have found that a lockup like this will reset with no damage when the recording stops automatically. I'll try to report later on whether that happens this time.

And here I thought "I" had solved the problems permanently.
post #816 of 859
Well it fixed itself but not as expected. After a couple of hours I turned the TV off with the Pioneer still locked on the TVGOS screen and went on with my life. When I returned later the recording was still in progress (I was recording several movies in a row without interruption) but the TVGOS screen was gone and the unit was operating normally. The recording was perfect as if nothing had happened. The TVGOS listings were still complete. The question now is did it corrupt the data so that TVGOS will disappear in 9 days? Time will tell.
post #817 of 859
I believe I've made it through almost a month now without any more TVGOS resets.
post #818 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by FtMgAl View Post

Well it fixed itself but not as expected. After a couple of hours I turned the TV off with the Pioneer still locked on the TVGOS screen and went on with my life. When I returned later the recording was still in progress (I was recording several movies in a row without interruption) but the TVGOS screen was gone and the unit was operating normally. The recording was perfect as if nothing had happened. The TVGOS listings were still complete. The question now is did it corrupt the data so that TVGOS will disappear in 9 days? Time will tell.

You're not alone with the problem. I've had that happen a couple of times to me as well. I was forced to hold the power button until the machine powered off and restarted it. This started a couple of weeks ago. I believe that there must have been some TVGOS update that's not working right.
post #819 of 859
I've had a total lockup only once so far while browsing the guide. Seems the downloading of the EPG data is a higher priority than processing user commands.
post #820 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by robxr4ti View Post

You're not alone with the problem. I've had that happen a couple of times to me as well. I was forced to hold the power button until the machine powered off and restarted it. This started a couple of weeks ago. I believe that there must have been some TVGOS update that's not working right.

In the past a full lockup meant even holding the power button did nothing and I had to unplug the power. Next time you might try just walking away and see if it corrects itself.

But something has changed with my machine. The TVGOS did NOT get corrupted this time so now it has been 61 days since the last EPG reset and I have gone back to my old habits of not waiting for screens to update while editing and still no problems (except if a recording is in progress while I'm editing I can sometimes lose a few seconds of the recording). I was told by Pioneer that the software was in the machine and not updatable but that seems questionable unless Gemstar was sending out bad data for a year and corrected it on New Years eve last year. That's also when I started getting ads. Did Gemstar somehow update the software in my machine? Whatever, I used to hate doing a reset every 9 days but now I LOVE THIS MACHINE!!!

Has anyone experienced a disappearing EPG since the first of the year?
post #821 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by FtMgAl View Post

In the past a full lockup meant even holding the power button did nothing and I had to unplug the power. Next time you might try just walking away and see if it corrects itself.

But something has changed with my machine. The TVGOS did NOT get corrupted this time so now it has been 61 days since the last EPG reset and I have gone back to my old habits of not waiting for screens to update while editing and still no problems (except if a recording is in progress while I'm editing I can sometimes lose a few seconds of the recording). I was told by Pioneer that the software was in the machine and not updatable but that seems questionable unless Gemstar was sending out bad data for a year and corrected it on New Years eve last year. That's also when I started getting ads. Did Gemstar somehow update the software in my machine? Whatever, I used to hate doing a reset every 9 days but now I LOVE THIS MACHINE!!!

Has anyone experienced a disappearing EPG since the first of the year?

I agree, I've been hesitant to jinx it by saying anything, but my TVGOS used to die just about every three weeks. I dont think it's dies since sometime around Chrismtmas, and for sure it hasn't died since end of Jan. I also started getting adds on TVGOS some time in Jan. as well.

So I agree, I think something has changed.

Rick
post #822 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by FtMgAl View Post

In the past a full lockup meant even holding the power button did nothing and I had to unplug the power. Next time you might try just walking away and see if it corrects itself.

But something has changed with my machine. The TVGOS did NOT get corrupted this time so now it has been 61 days since the last EPG reset and I have gone back to my old habits of not waiting for screens to update while editing and still no problems (except if a recording is in progress while I'm editing I can sometimes lose a few seconds of the recording). I was told by Pioneer that the software was in the machine and not updatable but that seems questionable unless Gemstar was sending out bad data for a year and corrected it on New Years eve last year. That's also when I started getting ads. Did Gemstar somehow update the software in my machine? Whatever, I used to hate doing a reset every 9 days but now I LOVE THIS MACHINE!!!

Has anyone experienced a disappearing EPG since the first of the year?

Nope, that has been very stable, but I do have the new issue of the machine going into "Timer adv" and not recording anything. The work around is to record the show before the one you want and then add on the time at the end. Of course, just wait until the time change...
post #823 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by FtMgAl View Post

Has anyone experienced a disappearing EPG since the first of the year?

Still going strong. Pioneer is now more reliable than my Comcast cable box.
post #824 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric T-Bird View Post

Still going strong. Pioneer is now more reliable than my Comcast cable box.

Mine is still going strong as well!

Rick
post #825 of 859
I had a 531 that I returned 6 months ago due to the EPG problem. I was browsing craigslist and picked up a 633 cheap (guy didn't like it because it doesn't work with Dish) so I figured I could use it in manual mode, what the hey, I have missed the ability to record shows to HDD.

Well I see that possibly things might be better since the advertisements showed up, sure hope so. So far mine has set itself up and is working OK, but it is only 4 days. Anyway, I was browsing some other forums and found that this guy named wlfoote on CNET claims to have a work around for the EPG problem. Here is what he says:

"Before switching the recorder into standby, press HOME MENU or TV GUIDE and then STANDBY/ON. The TV monitor should go blank and the front panel display turn dim almost immediately. If instead the character display reads POWER OFF, wait for the action to complete, switch the recorder back on and repeat the procedure. When in recording mode before switching to (or turning off) the TV, I should likewise press HOME MENU or TV GUIDE but don't always remember to do so."

What I think he is saying is that he always leaves the machine with HOME MENU or TV GUIDE showing, except when watching recorded shows. Is that what you guys think he is saying?

RMR
post #826 of 859
Just another update. I posted on Jan 22, 07 that my Pioneer DVR-531 had fixed itself and I am happy to report that it has performed flawlessly since. The guide is always up to date.I am sure that something changed when the adds started showing up and they showed a fix in the guide for the loss of guide info. Larry
post #827 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by burnspc View Post

My EPG is working fine now (knock on wood). Perhaps the cause of the problems is many: TVGOS software glitches, contracts with cable companies, host channels, etc. I do give it a ton of time to download, although I don't think it really matters if it gets interrupted. I already had a cheap dvd player, so I do most of my viewing on that, freeing up the recorder for downloading.

But, a couple of times in the past two weeks, I've noticed that the panel display says "Timer Ready" and then nothing happens. The scheduled shows don't get recorded. If I turn the dvr off and then on and then go to standby, it starts recording the scheduled shows again.

Someone mentioned this in passing awhile back, but I never saw a response. Are other people having this issue or can someone direct to me the appropriate thread?

Thanks for any help or direction on this. I'm just worried that it will happen while I'm out of town and a whole week's worth of scheduled programs will not be recorded.

- burnspc

Burnspc,

Well I have been having generally good results with the new to me 633. So far I haven't had the dreaded black screen. Like you however I now have been getting this new problem where I find the machine stuck on "Timer Rdy". The times it has happened is when I have had back to back shows to record but the second one doesn't start, but instead just displays "Timer Rdy" on the unit. It stays in this mode until I hit the record stop button and then the recording will start if there is a show scheduled at the current time.

Had anyone seen this before the advertisements started showing up? Has anyone found a solution to this problem?

RMR
post #828 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMR View Post


Like you however I now have been getting this new problem where I find the machine stuck on "Timer Rdy". The times it has happened is when I have had back to back shows to record but the second one doesn't start, but instead just displays "Timer Rdy" on the unit. It stays in this mode until I hit the record stop button and then the recording will start if there is a show scheduled at the current time.

Had anyone seen this before the advertisements started showing up? Has anyone found a solution to this problem?

RMR

I have also had almost the same problem when recording back-to-back programs on the same channel during NON-prime time. Such as mid-afternoon. I don't know what the display window is showing since I'm not at home. But my dvr-531 will record maybe the last 14 minutes of a 1 hour program and then record the next 2 hours just fine. There is a pattern in that it's always 14 minutes or ocassionally 31 minutes.

One poster suggested recording the program immediately before the program I want to record. That didn't work for me. I would then get an hour and 14 minutes of recording.
post #829 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzmanks View Post

I have also had almost the same problem when recording back-to-back programs on the same channel during NON-prime time. Such as mid-afternoon. I don't know what the display window is showing since I'm not at home. But my dvr-531 will record maybe the last 14 minutes of a 1 hour program and then record the next 2 hours just fine. There is a pattern in that it's always 14 minutes or ocassionally 31 minutes.

One poster suggested recording the program immediately before the program I want to record. That didn't work for me. I would then get an hour and 14 minutes of recording.

One thing that is interesting is that the old black screen problem seems to be gone , but now we seem to have this NEW PROBLEM (timer rdy) that pops up now and then. I think it proves that it is possible that TVGUIDE had the ability to correct the black screen problem all along but for whatever the reason, failed. I can see why Pioneer terminated their business dealings with them. I wonder if they will ever fix the "timer rdy" problem? I guess I should be thankful that things are moving in the right direction.

RMR
post #830 of 859
Same story here, amazing and pitiful. Since it was a couple of months old, I had the disappearing EPG often, commonly on the first weekend of every month, suggesting it was triggered by some periodic update. I just put up with it and learned to reset. But as with the previous posters, once the ads started showing up the disappearing EPG problem went away. I thought the problem had been fixed, and everything was fine and dandy in Pleasantville.

But now I'm getting the same timer rdy problem, with recordings starting a half hour late. I'd rather be forced to reset monthly than to lose programs, especially since Stargate SG-1 has some dynamite shows leading up to the end of the series, and Heroes is back. I've been getting 29 minute recordings, which means it's starting 31 minutes late. I don't think it matters whether the recording is set to start on time or a few minutes early.

I'm going to clean out my recording list, which is large, dump important stuff to DVD, then try compacting the disk, and last resort is to try a reset. If that doesn't fix it, I may just have to set up one long, manual recording for tonight. I won't be able to play music on hold with Pioneer until next week, but I'll pay attention to this forum and post anything I find out.

Aside: I really think this new problem deserves a thread of its own. It's difficult enough to search here, but limiting the search to titles helps a lot - if the title matches the thread. I'm glad I decided to check out this thread anyway, but not everyone will.
post #831 of 859
Something easy to try: turn Daylight Savings Time (DST) OFF and see if this helps. (Use the Setup Navigator menu.)
post #832 of 859
Knock on wood, have not had the timer ready problem. Machine has been dependable recording 10 TV programs a week.
post #833 of 859
Now I am noticing that some stations like ABC doesn't have any data beyond the current day.
post #834 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMR View Post

One thing that is interesting is that the old black screen problem seems to be gone , but now we seem to have this NEW PROBLEM (timer rdy) that pops up now and then. I think it proves that it is possible that TVGUIDE had the ability to correct the black screen problem all along but for whatever the reason, failed. I can see why Pioneer terminated their business dealings with them. I wonder if they will ever fix the "timer rdy" problem? I guess I should be thankful that things are moving in the right direction.

RMR

I didn't figure out what is causing the problem with only parts of a scheduled recording (using TVGOS) but I did find a solution. I tried setting the DVR531 to record the previous hour program, then added 120 minutes to the stop time (total of 3 hours) in order to get the two hour long programs I really wanted (Star Trek: Voyager on SpikeTV). Guess what I got! I did not get the program that I picked out of the TVGOS. The machine recorded the last 14 minutes of the 2nd hour and the last 46 minutes of the 3rd hour. Those partial recordings are about what I got when I scheduled two individual recordings for that two hour time slot. The one hour time slot always records the last 14 minutes of the hour. The other time slot sometimes recorded 46 minutes and other times just 7 minutes.

My solution to get recorded what I actually wanted was to manually set the date, time and channel. I did not use the TVGOS to select the program.

I also tried emptying the timer events but that did not help.

EDIT 5/16/2007: I spoke too soon. This week the daily 2 hour manually set recording is recording 1 hour and 54 minutes each day.
post #835 of 859
A year later and the DVR is working well.

My next thought is will the TVGOS data be available via cable after the OTA analog signals are turned off next year, will the TVGOS be shutoff then too?
post #836 of 859
The old Pioneer data is sent via telephone line to each PBS station, so it *should* work if Gemstar doesn't abandon that tel. delivery method???
post #837 of 859
The continued broadcast of the TVGOS signal is the least of the 531-533-633 concerns: I know this isn't the greatest news for owners of the Pioneer 2005 models, but as more time passes they are revealing themselves to be even flakier than they were in the beginning. More and more of these have been in and out of their first DIY or professional service, and now that some time has passed since those initial repairs they are proving not to really "stick", sometimes triggering additional problems down the road. The best advice I would give anyone with a functioning 2005 Pioneer would be to sell it on eBay asap while theres still a market for them, and spend the $200-300 proceeds to buy a new Pioneer 450 or 550. These are still available new at Canadian superstores and from some online and ebay dealers. The 540, 640, 450, 550 and 650 are so MUCH more reliable than the 531-533-633 it would make your head spin. (Another good alternative is Phillips 3575-3576 model.)

There is something incredibly dysfunctional in the overall 531-533-633 design that makes these units seem "haunted" compared to other Pioneers, or other DVRs period. In the beginning, it was widely assumed that their flawed implementation of TVGOS was the major source of problems and if that was repaired when it broke down, the units would be OK. Time has shown this not to be true in many cases. Replaced hard drives with fresh TVGOS on them seem to be failing as fast or faster than the original HDDs, and a surprising number of units that have had worn out burners replaced are turning up with a completely dead HDD interface a few weeks to a few months later. Service begets service begets service with these machines: its a domino effect.

This is very disheartening to see, but there isn't much that can be done. It seems there really is no more than a 50/50 chance of a 531-533-633 being repaired successfully for long term use. The TVGOS is the most obvious tip of the iceberg, when yours starts acting weird I *strongly* recommend selling it before it breaks down completely. Replace it with either a Phillips 3575 (3576), or a Canadian Pioneer 450-550-650, and you will be far happier in the long run. Better safe than sorry.
post #838 of 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric T-Bird View Post

...will the TVGOS data be available via cable after the OTA analog signals are turned off next year, will the TVGOS be shutoff then too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

The old Pioneer data is sent via telephone line to each PBS station, so it *should* work if Gemstar doesn't abandon that tel. delivery method???

The real issue is the analog cutoff. The existing Gemstar infrastructure relies on equipment at the broadcast site that inserts the data into the VBI portion of the analog signal - but a digital signal uses completely different technology. Since the PBS engineers have already admitted that the Gemstar equipment is a "black box" that they have no control over, they're obviously not the folks who are responsible for replacing it with a unit that can inject the data into a digital signal.

Even if Gemstar does upgrade the injection equipment, there's no guarantee that the broadcast digital version of the signal will be downconverted back to the analog VBI signal expected by existing consumer equipment. The downconversion would have to take place at the cable company, or in a set-top box for people who receive their digital signals over the air (OTA). It doesn't seem likely to me that such a downconversion will happen.

If the broadcasters continue to give private-line analog feeds to the signal distributors (cable cos) that would solve the problem for the folks who receive their signals that way. But it would leave still OTA users "in the dark".

I haven't heard any definitive answers to these questions, so I'd not stake too much on the chance of the TVGOS signal continuing past next Feburary.
post #839 of 859
If the PBS stations don't provide an analog feed, then yah, I see that TVGOS would be done, less they move to the cable companies.

I am wondering the the picture on the analog feeds and conversions will always be Letterboxed?
post #840 of 859
Hi all ... I haven't been here in a while. Back in 2005-2006 I posted here quite a bit as we all struggled through this TVGOS mess.

I bought a Tivo HD yesterday and so finally have retired my Pioneer DVR-533H after 3+ years of regular use (since August 2005). I have needed to do a TVGOS reset on it a couple times a year, but otherwise it has worked fine.

In "retirement", I'm actually putting it in service at work (I work in the TV business and we have cable at our desks) so hopefully it'll continue to function for me. It's hunting for EPG data right now ...

For the record, here are some useful posts in this thread:

basic behavior of TVGOS when doing a power/stop reset
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...73#post6215573

debug screens
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...18#post6447018

how to reset just the TVGOS software
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...05#post6656805
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...92#post7248092

lots more TVGOS info (don't miss the tech page):
http://home1.gte.net/res18h39/tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com
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