Pioneer Electronics Product Questions - Page 9

Well said, neighbor (I'm in Wickenburg). Sorry to be off topic. I can't understand why people have to be so in your face, especially when they want information!

Woohoo - 74 coming tomorrow! Can't wait.

Congratulations. Make sure you post your impressions.

Bob

Thanks for your help Monty. So you're saying that as long as I use the Ilink for high rez audio I shouldn't be losing a thing from HDMI 1.1 to HDMI 1.2

Norm

From the Sound & Vision bench test:
"only the largest, heaviest, and most expensive receivers and amplifiers perform perfectly in these tests."
Makes sense to me. I like what S&V is doing with their reviews lately Second only to Audioholics


dc

From Hal:


Quote:
Test Bench: Pioneer VSX-74TXVi receiver (S&V)

Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 172/296 W (22.4/24.7 dBW)*
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 61 W (17.9 dBW)*
6 channels driven (8 ohms): 52 W (17.1 dBW)*

* Speaker-impedance setup switch set to 8-ohm position.


For reference, here is an older test report, from Home Theater Mag, of the 55TXi (I couldn't find a test report of the 56TXi, but I don't think the weight, etc, changed much between these two. The short summary of the amp:

Quote:
HT Labs Measures: Pioneer Elite VSX-55TXi

Five channels driven into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 87.9 watts; 1% distortion at 97.7 watts

This graph shows that the VSX-55TXi's left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 110.2 watts and 1% distortion at 129.3 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 192.6 watts and 1% distortion at 220.8 watts.


Interestingly, I also found a Home Theater Mag test of the 52. Here is the test report of it. Short summary of the amp:

Quote:
HT Labs Measures: Pioneer Elite VSX-52TX A/V Receiver

Five channels driven into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 115.3 watts; 1% distortion at 129.7 watts

This graph shows that the VSX-52TX's left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 121.2 watts and 1% distortion at 143.1 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 197.0 watts and 1% distortion at 231.4 watts.



So it looks like in comparing the 55 to the 74 that the 55 had 129 w/ch with 2 channels driven at clipping at 1K, and the 74 had 172 w/ch with 1 channel driven to clipping at 1K; so the output per channel looks to be higher on the 74 (granted they aren't tested exactly the same).

Driving all channels is another story, though: the 55 put out almost 98 w/ch at clipping (1% distortion; I'm assuming at 1K); the 74 only put out 61 under those conditons.

So it kind of looks to me like Pio is going more towards the Yamaha philosophy of sizing the power supply assuming that all channels will never be driven simultaneously in a real-world enviornment (the Audioholics guys have an article on their website with regard to how they feel all channels driven is an un-realistic spec, but other manufacturers (esp. HK and NAD) have always used this as a marketing point). I always thought Pio fell somewhere between the HK/NAD approach and the Yamaha approach, but this receiver looks like its moving toward the later.

What I thought was odd, though, was that the cheaper 52 put out 142 w/ch with 2 channels driven and almost 130 watts/ch with 5 channels driven (both at clipping at 1K). I wouldn't have expected that result (I understand the amp section of the 52 is almost identical to that of the non-Elite 1015 as well).

For a frame of reference, here's a Home Theater Mag test of Denon 3805. Amp summary:

Quote:
HT Labs Measures: Denon AVR-3805

Five channels driven into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 114.9 watts; 1% distortion at 125.0 watts

This graph shows that the AVR-3805's left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 132.2 watts and 1% distortion at 162.3 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 218.4 watts and 1% distortion at 243.0 watts.


And here is a test report of a Yamaha 2400. Amp summary:
Quote:

HT Labs Measures: Yamaha RX-V2400 A/V Receiver

This graph shows that the RX-V2400's left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 102.9 watts and 1% distortion at 130.5 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 158.4 watts and 1% distortion at 195.3 watts. With five channels driving 8-ohm loads, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 43.5 watts and 1% distortion at 44.1 watts. With seven channels driving 8-ohm loads, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 32.3 watts and 1% distortion at 36.9 watts.


For HK I found a review of the 630, which should be close to the 635 here.
Amp summary:

Quote:
HT Labs Measures: Harman/Kardon AVR 630

Five channels driven into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 79.7 watts; 1% distortion at 93.3 watts

This graph shows that the AVR 630's left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 84.6 watts and 1% distortion at 100.6 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 146.9 watts and 1% distortion at 170.8 watts.


And for NAD, here is a test of the T753. Amp summary:
Quote:

HT Labs Measures: NAD T 753 A/V Receiver

Five channels driven into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 93.7 watts; 1% distortion at 105.0 watts

This graph shows that the T 753's left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 110.7 watts and 1% distortion at 136.1 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 122.6 watts and 1% distortion at 146.3 watts.


Finally, just for fun, here's a Home Theater Mag test of the Sunfire UR.

Amp summary:
Quote:

HT Labs Measures: Sunfire Ultimate A/V Receiver

This graph shows that the Ultimate's left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 150.9 watts and 1% distortion at 231.3 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 265.5 watts and 1% distortion at 398.1 watts. With five channels driving 8-ohm loads, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 132.6 watts and 1% distortion at 190.7 watts.

I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish N8. You've said virtually the same thing in various posts. Why beat a dead horse, ya know.

Norm

n8lyleat,

"It's hardly running him off merely asking him to comment on it."

Correct, but your wording equates more or less to "You lied, now take it back."

Chris is exhibiting tremendous patience in answering all these questions on his own time , and has shown unusual openness to product suggestions.

Posts like yours are just what drives away valuable contributors like him. You can't blame him for thinking "Why bother, just to be the whipping boy for these ingrates?"

This issue makes it apparent that Chris is a product guy, not an engineer, so cut him some slack.

Came back from Sound Advice where they have a 74 next to an old 56. The 56 seems to sound much louder at the same volume level, same speakers and same source. The salesman also agreed. To my taste, both receivers produced a very good sound with Boston Acoustic speakers. I like the idea of HDMI switching and that's why I will probably get the 74 but if HDMI is not a must the 56 can be a better choice for half the price.


Sergio

Which Sound Advice is this? I called the one in Boca Raton and Ft Lauderdale, and both said that they did not have the new 74 and 72.
How much was this Sound Advice selling the 74 and 56 for?

It was the Sound Advice in Aventura. They have one unit set up and just one other in stock. They also have one 72 but it wasn't set up when I was there.

We can't talk about prices here but I assume they are selling the 74 at MSRP or at a very small discount . I remember the 56 was priced at a huge discount , about half the 74.

I hope this can help you.


Sergio

A few weeks ago I got a Private Sale letter from Sound Advice. I called about the 56 and was told between $1250-$1300. I am not sure if that was the price before or ater the 10% Private Sale Discount.
The guy on the phone was trying to talk me into the Denon 4806 at $3500.
Maybe I should call back, since the 74 and 72 are out, and see if the price of the 56 went down more.
My 36" HDTV was made in 2001, so it doesn't have HDMI. Nor does my DV-37 DVD Player. However, I would like to have HDMI for future use.

I wonder why you said the 74 was louder than the 56, since the 74 has 30 more watts per speaker. Maybe it was something in the setup, EQ, or Calibration that caused this?

The 74 was just out of the box so there was no calibration. We set the volume on both receivers at -15 and started to switch source and speakers. The 56 was always louder. We only listened to 5.1 DD and didn't make any stereo 2 ch comparison. No extra pre or post processing was used. Keep in mind that the 74 was also very good soundwise.

Your comment on the 56 price makes me wonder if the price that I saw wasn't for a demo unit. I just saw the price tag on the 56 and there was no tag on the 74.

Give SA Aventura a call tomorrow and check it out.

Sergio

I'll make some calls and see. If the 56 was under $1K, then it was probaby for the floor unit.
I still wonder why it was louder. Did the saleman have any guess as to why?
Other than that, was the Sound Quality of the 74 and 56 the same?

unpacked mine yesterday. Ran the auto calibration, and started to listen(briefly, wife wasnt thrilled me trying to do this at dinner time.
I happend to have some Clapton in the cd player and the sound was MUCH better than my old Yamaha rxv 2090. I didnt get to turn it up for the above reasons

Today Ill try to run the auto calibration again with nobody in the house.

Quick question, how come my sub was not getting any signal when listening to the cd?

Also, I have an older toshiba dvd player. It has 5.1 analog outs with component output as well. It also has digital coax and digital optical out.
Since my old yamaha had the analog 5.1 inputs I didnt have the digital coAX OR OPTICAL CABLES. i TRIED to plug the toshiba dvd into the new elite 7.1 inputs. AlthoughI could get the ound from the dvd, I could not get the picture to work at the same time. i know the reason(at least I think I do) but i am getting the optical cables tonight and ill see how it sounds.

hoopsrgreat,
I don't have a 74txi (but I will in October) but most receivers need to be set to small speakers to make use of a sub when listening to CD music.
-Evangelo2

Setting the speakers to small will make it pass the bass to the sub, however if you do choose to leave the mains as large then set the subwoofer as plus in the VSX-74TXi setup.

Personally I run all 7 speakers as large with the sub as plus. However my fronts are 3 way with 2 10" woofers and my center and surrounds are all 3 way speakers.

Hi Chris,

I just picked up a VSX-72TXV this weekend, and overall am very pleased but am having a problem with the HDMI switching. On one port I have the DirecTV HD DVR set to 1080i and it wokrs fine driving my Philips 37" LCD Flat Panel. The other HDMI input port is connected to a Samsung DVD-VR325 (DVD/VHS player/recorder with HDMI output). It works fine to a point - I can bring up the system menu, and play DVD-R's I've made. However, when I put a commercial (copy protected) DVD in the unit all I hear is the audio and the screen flashes green and the HDMI indicator on the receiver blinks.

Note that if I hook-up the Samsung unit directly to the HDMI port on my Philips LCD it works fine playing all media.

I looked to see what version of HDMI the Samsung implements, but there was no information on this in the manual or online.

Can you help me with this at all?

/BILLW

I know Chris is probably tied up with CEDIA this week but it sure would be nice to get him back on this board. The new Elite 74 seems to be getting pretty beat-up in a couple of other threads around here...

I picked one up over the weekend and thought the sound was very good. And that's coming off an Elite 49TX! Granted I'm not in a very large room but I noticed a good deal more definition to the sound all around. I assume this might be due to the advanced auto-calibration?

Any way...I'd sure like to get some perspective from Pioneer on all this.

Hi Chris,

Good to see a representative from Pioneer here!

I have only one request, please give us a pre-amp with all the features of the VSX-74 with no amps and just super pre/pro sound quality.

Please!

It wouldn't take much work to rip the amps out of the 74 and use those funds for improving the preamp section! =)

Its never gonna happen. The market is way to small. Pioneer doesn't have a multichannel amp. If it did happen they would have to amortize the cost over such few units that it would cost $4000.

But thankfully the 74TXVi does have preamp outputs and Im hoping the 79TXVi? will have them too.

I think we lost Chris.

When is the CEDIA show over?

It was over Sun.

Chris - Any commnets on CEDIA?

Are you still around?

This Thread held such promise when a real live Pioneer guy was playing!!!! Maybe Chris went on vacation after CEDiA.

I know I miss him already.
To think he took the time to answer the question about the wood too.


It could have been the questions like, "Why doesn't my player fit im my rack at home when it did on the shelf at the store"?

We might have driven him crazy.

the amp section is the only thing that has me not buying this now.

i love me some pioneer, shet, my CURRENT receiver has lasted me since 1999. NO PROBLEMS.

I warned you guys... but I think he'll be back.

I emailed him using the forum option tell him we were looking for him yesterday.

You never know, he could be on vacation. I work in front of a computer all day and when I take time off, I really take time off....... No computer!

Talked with him middle of last week.
He is swamped with getting product training out to the dealers.