Mitsubishi HC3000 MSRP $2,995 - Page 2

Mike,

Translated this from the cine4home link at the start of the thread:

"Mitsubishi recognized and offers this trend, with the coming HC3000 a hp ready projector for a similarly attractive price. Here however not the typical 1280x720 DMD, but the new 1280 x 768 variant"

If this is correct then is TI also giving the 1280x768 chip the Darkchip 3 treatment with the faster mirrors, more light output and higher contrast?

Yes. It's a new chip. It's listed in the prelim specs as: 0.65" 1-chip DMD, 12 deg. LVDS, Dark Chip 3 with DDP3020

This is HUGE - this chip has already been confirmed to be substantially cheaper for ti to make then the current 720 dmds, and the annouced pj pricing seems to bear that out - dc3 (with added pc capabilities) vs. D5, worth it's own thread - this battle is going to shape the <$3,500 world until a 1080 chip makes it to us (so the next 2 years.)

The contrast looks pretty disappointing -- 4000:1, and that's with a dynamic iris. Doesn't the Optoma H78 have the same CR without DI?

It doesn't! HDMI is a digital only input. DVI can be either digital (DVI-D) or analog (DVI-A) or both (DVI-I). Also, DVI-D is only an 8-bit digital interface, whereas HDMI can be 8-bit, 10-bit or 12-bit. It's also a wider bandwidth interface.

I just posted this in the 768p thread on the >$3.5K forum but... The question I really want answered...

Now that people are claiming the Brilliant Color wheel in the super fantabulous 1080p single chip demo drastically reduced rainbows... Will the new 1280x768p, DC3, cheapo chip offer the same benefits? Anyone who has seen either the Mits (at Cedia) or the new LGs (at IFA) care to comment on RBE and whether it is:
A) Same
B) Improved
C) Worse
when compared to the previous DC2, DC2+, DC3 implementations using the regular wheels? Maybe Ekkehart from Cine4home could comment? I know he had the new Mits in for testing... Or is there something else at work in the new 1080p single chipper?
-Matt

This is starting to sound very promising. If it does true 1:1 pixel matching with a 720P input and has the DC3 chip this may be what I've been waiting for!

Not a dynamic iris, a motorized iris.

I find it odd that no more manufacturers announced 720P DLP projectors (assuming that all HT projectors using this chip will have a 720 mode for 16x9) with it. Maybe they are all holding off until CES which would be a mistake because by then D5 720P projectors should be widely available.

" I find it odd that no more manufacturers announced 720P DLP projectors "

Maybe it'll be the same as last year, when it took a few months after the release of the HS51 and Pan 700 before the Sharp 2000 and Benq/Toshiba 720P's showed up at breakthrough prices.

Projectorcentral included HC3000 in their projector database. It's DarkChip 3 DLP technology with DDP3020.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mitsubishi-HC3000.htm

Mike, excuse my being dense, but when you say the display was not the greatest, are you talking about the PQ? Was that due to the booth set-up? Calibration seriously required?

Thanks, G

Mainly the booth setup. It was just a little add-on display area with a small split screen displaying the two projectors. Not even a separate tented area like many of the others had. I almost missed it entirely while walking through. While it didn't look bad, I'd reserve judgment on PQ until I saw it under better conditions. There's a lot of potential there though.

From what I've read in HT Magazine, this new DMD is actually a 640 x 720 DMD and it gets 1280 x 720 using the DDP3020 which includes a "wobulated" main mirror. This is why it's only 0.65" and cheaper.

What did that just mean? Speak slowly as I am just a simple caveman...

Woops! I screwed up - the DD3020 is their "Brilliantcolor" process (6 color segments "to give more vibrant colors").

NOTE: See MikeSRC's link (copied from the Infocus thread): http://www.dlp.com/about_dlp/about_d...se.asp?id=1260

morgan1112 -- "Wobulated" means that they use a main mirror to wobble slightly to make one pixel do the job of 2. This doubles the number of horizontal pixels (hence they can use 640 pixels to giive them 1280 virtual pixels). Some of the new 1920 x 1080 DLP RPTVs use this to use a 960 x 1080 DMD to produce a full 1920 x 1080 display. This also means that they have to process the video signal at twice the horizontal rate that they would have to do if they used a full 1280 x 720 DMD. The trade-off is that it is cheaper to design an build the higher frequency circuits than it is to build a bigger DMD. The "drawback(?)" is that the color wheel has to rotate twice as fast (I'm guessing - can anyone confirm?).

This would change things significantly if that is true. How would it be able to handle 1280x768 if its only 640x720?

I thought we were talking about a 1280 x 768 DMD not 1280 x 720 DMD. Are you sure you are not confusing with any other chip? I thought TI decided not to use any "wobulated" chip with front projectors.

Oops again! I guess that should be 640 x 768, wobulated?

If it was not "wobulated, then it would not be a 0.65" DMD.

Mitsubishi (Japan) site doesn't think it's "wobulated."
http://www.mitsubishielectric.co.jp/...c3000/top.html

I was under the impression that it was a "true" 1280 X 768, but I don't have anything to confirm that.

Yes, the DDP3020 is a separate ASIC that provides the "BrilliantColor" processing.

Would the picture quality decrease by being 'wobulated'?

Claus,

Where is your infomation coming from that this chip is wobulated? I've yet so see anything to that matter. This 1280x768 chip was discussed before (don't have a link) and it is supposed to be a value chip in the sense that it will be used in business and HT applications. The lesser value coming from the chip being produced in large quantities since the business market is much bigger than the home theater market.

"If it was not "wobulated, then it would not be a 0.65" DMD. "

I believe it's just a smaller die/pixel size, ergo the reduced cost.

The current 1280x720 DMD's .8".

Now I am a little confused. What is "the new 1280 x 768 variant" and at that, can it still be native 720P?

Claus, I'm sorry, but you are simply wrong, it is NOT a wobulated DMD. Period.

It's a variant so that it can fit a full 1024x768 resolution for pc use, and 1280x720 for home theater use. 1280x720 can fit in a 1280x768 window.

There are comments about using 1024x768 mode with PCs. I assume you will also be able to watch 4:3 video in this mode also? You'd get about 14% more pixels than with just 960x720 (if my calcs are correct).

If projectors using this 768P chip cannot do 1:1 pixel mapping at 1280x720 for home theater use they will be hard sell. I can't imagine this projector not having a 720P mode since it is a home theater projector.

jsm88 -- Do you know that for a fact? Could you provide a source/link? I'm just reporting what I have read concerning the "same (?)" DMD used in their DLP RPTV.

MikeSRC -- Do you have any further info on the DMD used in the Mitsubishi FP?