or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Home Entertainment & Theater Builder › Dedicated Theater Design & Construction › Sandmans Home Theater Construction Begins!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Sandmans Home Theater Construction Begins! - Page 2

post #31 of 3764
Nice work so far! Good luck on your venture.
post #32 of 3764
Thread Starter 
Thanks!

Well Today the Dry Wall, Insulation and Lumber Arrived.






Thanks to BIGmouthinDC I went to Loews and found the Foam on a Roll. I was suprised that 2 Home Depots I went to didn't have it. So I got it in 5.5 in Wide to do the Walls and Floors where the Stagger Studded Framing attaches to the Concrete. I was originally going to use a #30 Roofing felt but this foam on a roll serves much better.







This is the Foam on the Wall.



We are now joinging the Framed walls together and bolting them to the Floors.

The framed Walls should be all up tonight.

Stay Tuned, I will Post some pictures once the framing is done.
post #33 of 3764
Ruben you guys are flying! Those anchors are pretty serious looking. I'd say your structure is going to get a hurricane/earthquake certification

Glad the foam on a roll is working.

Quick question, how are you going to attach drywall to the backs of the walls if you put the frames up first. I can see that you have access to the two long walls (well at least one if you can't raise the door with the frame in place) but what about the short walls against the garage side walls?

Keep us monday morning quarterbacks posted on the progress and we'll be happy to offer suggestions.
post #34 of 3764
Thread Starter 
Thanks,

Well after consulting with Ted White, He informed me not to sheetrock the outer walls that go against cement and to leave space in between the Concrete wall and wood Framing with R-19 insulation inside and just double 5/8's with GG in between on the inside of Theater.

The Wall going against the garage door is going to be the fun part. We will try to double 5/8's the outside and mud It and lift the wall into place like any other big wall. Or, put it up in 3 sections (2 8 foot sections and 1 4 foot Section). Then seal it from inside the wall (the brown Side instead of the white side).

We were also thinking about having the wall Partially leaning upwards (like top half of wall resting on stands while the bottom half is almost in position on the floor. Then apply the first layer of Drywall, Mud it then the Second layer of drywall and mud again (Stagger Drywall of course). Then after that walk the wall the rest of the way up. I may decide to do the 2 layers and rock fast and get it up before it drys, to avoid any cracking in the seams while adjusting it.
post #35 of 3764
A quick glance at your room plans, as I've been in this business doing custom theaters for some time now, as well as an acoustical engineer, say's that you really have a couple of issues that will affect ultimate performance of your theater acoustically.
ONe is that, where's all the excess bass energy going? You'll really need some bass traps with limited absorption in that room, to help the "Q" of the room, from being to bass heavy and slow. I recommend accessing the space above the theater for this (do some research on this). Othewise, this will be a problem with high fidelity ultimately.
Smaller spaces don't absorb enough bass, while larger spaces absorb more bass.
Yes, you can still "EQ" things with speaker and seating, use and EQ, etc, to get flattest response possible from listening positions. STill, reverberation will be long in the bass if you can't get rid of the excess energy there.
Another thing is double drywall inside and out. I recommend double drywall on the outside only! Why?...it's going to be to "hard" sounding if you make the wall stiffer, which also hurts your "reverb" in the room in the bass....just a thought.
Also, the low ceiling in that room (8.5) will dictate etither more "controlled focus" design speakers up front, to limit ceiling interaction between you and the speakers in that setup. Otherwise, back-row listeners will get the worst of it in this respect.
Using typical "tweeter over mid/bass driver" designs, won't help you here, maybe benefited by "first order crossover" designs however. STill, THX, Dappolito's, Horn's, Planner/electrostat's, and other similar will help greatly!
Otherwise, plan on doing some acoustics on the ceiling! I suggest looking at what PMI makes in there "cine-pannels"??? I think that's what
they call em. Anyway, unless you do your own acoustics, these pannels look great, and work fantastic!...just a though. Also, bass traps in all the corners, treating all corner reflection points helps.
Also, I recommend Russ Hershelmann's theater seating/speaker layout scheme for you. That means "no center seat", as that's the worst in the room!!!! (lot's of peaks and dips in the response...not good!).
As things look now, your seating spots are difficult acoustic spots It appears. Also, speaker locations should correspond and compliment the seating possitions.
Do some research???...
Also, doing a 140" diag in that size room? I recommend against.
Even if you're using a 1920x1080 rez, progressive, it's still better smaller around 100-120" max! I think you'll run into seeing more than you want as far as pixles, scan lines, low rez, whatever. That's just me however.
WE all want a big pic, but BALANCE is critical with your viewing distance. I prefer quality over quantity myself. But whatever floats your boat...it's all groovy, you know?
Anyway, your sitting at less than 1x's the diagonal, which most pro's would shun, even with higher rez. To each his own however.
Back to sound, you might want to do some research on speaker placment before you cement things in. Otherwise, plan on some serious "EQ'ing"! Still, the foundation is seating and speaker location, locaiton, location! Don't get that right, and you'll never have serious sound.
Good luck...looks fun
post #36 of 3764
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flrnlam View Post

ONe is that, where's all the excess bass energy going? You'll really need some bass traps with limited absorption in that room, to help the "Q" of the room, from being to bass heavy and slow. I recommend accessing the space above the theater for this (do some research on this). Othewise, this will be a problem with high fidelity ultimately.
Smaller spaces don't absorb enough bass, while larger spaces absorb more bass.
Yes, you can still "EQ" things with speaker and seating, use and EQ, etc, to get flattest response possible from listening positions. STill, reverberation will be long in the bass if you can't get rid of the excess energy there.
Another thing is double drywall inside and out. I recommend double drywall on the outside only! Why?...it's going to be to "hard" sounding if you make the wall stiffer, which also hurts your "reverb" in the room in the bass....just a thought.
Also, the low ceiling in that room (8.5) will dictate etither more "controlled focus" design speakers up front, to limit ceiling interaction between you and the speakers in that setup. Otherwise, back-row listeners will get the worst of it in this respect.
Using typical "tweeter over mid/bass driver" designs, won't help you here, maybe benefited by "first order crossover" designs however. STill, THX, Dappolito's, Horn's, Planner/electrostat's, and other similar will help greatly!
Otherwise, plan on doing some acoustics on the ceiling! I suggest looking at what PMI makes in there "cine-pannels"??? I think that's what
they call em. Anyway, unless you do your own acoustics, these pannels look great, and work fantastic!...just a though. Also, bass traps in all the corners, treating all corner reflection points helps.
Also, I recommend Russ Hershelmann's theater seating/speaker layout scheme for you. That means "no center seat", as that's the worst in the room!!!! (lot's of peaks and dips in the response...not good!).
As things look now, your seating spots are difficult acoustic spots It appears. Also, speaker locations should correspond and compliment the seating possitions.
Do some research???...
Also, doing a 140" diag in that size room? I recommend against.
Even if you're using a 1920x1080 rez, progressive, it's still better smaller around 100-120" max! I think you'll run into seeing more than you want as far as pixles, scan lines, low rez, whatever. That's just me however.
WE all want a big pic, but BALANCE is critical with your viewing distance. I prefer quality over quantity myself. But whatever floats your boat...it's all groovy, you know?
Anyway, your sitting at less than 1x's the diagonal, which most pro's would shun, even with higher rez. To each his own however.
Back to sound, you might want to do some research on speaker placment before you cement things in. Otherwise, plan on some serious "EQ'ing"! Still, the foundation is seating and speaker location, locaiton, location! Don't get that right, and you'll never have serious sound.
Good luck...looks fun

Thanks for your thoughts.

Were you thinking I was thinking once I finish drywalling the room it would be all done? I hope not. Just because my quick drawing didn't indicate Room treatments doesn't mean I'm not treating the room. My Drawing just shows the construction layout without the the Soffits.

There will be plenty of spots to incorporate Bass Traps ie. behind the Screen wall, Soffits or Columns. I will be treating the whole room. For the immediate time being, I am just getting the heavy work done with the space I have using the suggestions of my fellow pro Audio/Home Theater people here at AVS and locally. I believe that when the room is done, it should be air tight and contain sound very well. Then once thats accomplished, then It will come time to treat the Room accoustically. My first concern is containing the sound within the room without any leakage.

I have really no space above to treat the ceiling with Bass traps, and I dont care to either. I will seek furter advice on this when I get the walls fully constructed.

As far as a System, I am using a Martin Logan System containing Odyssey's for the Fronts, Aeons for the Rears, Scripts for the Side Fills and The Theater for the Center.
The Sub is a 18" Velodyne HGS-18. The Receiver is a B&K AVR 507 with B&K 200.1 Monoblocks.

As far as Screen Size, Yes I am Doing it Big. It Doesn't mean I have to have that big of a picture if it proves to be bad (Thank god for Zoom and Masking). But The Optoma H79 projector with a 10 foot screen and seating at 10 feet away has to be much better than our last Eiki Powerhouse One LCD Projector that we Sat 10 feet away from with a 14 Foot Screen shot on a white painted wall. I rather have a Big screen now, so in the future if I relocate, I can perhaps have a bigger room for the screen.

Money is really no object for me to complete this the right way. I will seek services of an audio tech to analyze the room once the initial concept is done and plenty of them are right here in Boca Raton. I will not begin major accoustic treatments until the room construction is completed and analyzed professioinally.
post #37 of 3764
Rubin, I've got the 79 if you have any questions.

Been thinking about that wall against the garage door. One thing that I would investigate is if there was any way possible to make the door removable from the outside for construction purposes and for future access if you need to do some maintenance on the door either due to deteriation or careless parking by a visitor eager to see the theater.

I know on my wood doors all the bolts holding it in place are tightened from the inside but if I reversed the bolts maybe I could remove a panel from the outside. If you could modify the top panel mounting so that you could remove it from the outside then you could reach in and unbolt the other panels. Maybe leave the top panel held in place only by the hinges to the panel below and some latches at the very top secured to the door frame. Just thinking out loud.


All said, I don't have a clue what kind of door you have but it's worth thinking about now before it's too late.

If you could do your double rock through the open door that would save a lot of hassle.
post #38 of 3764
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Rubin, I've got the 79 if you have any questions.

Been thinking about that wall against the garage door. One thing that I would investigate is if there was any way possible to make the door removable from the outside for construction purposes and for future access if you need to do some maintenance on the door either due to deteriation or careless parking by a visitor eager to see the theater.

I know on my wood doors all the bolts holding it in place are tightened from the inside but if I reversed the bolts maybe I could remove a panel from the outside. If you could modify the top panel mounting so that you could remove it from the outside then you could reach in and unbolt the other panels. Maybe leave the top panel held in place only by the hinges to the panel below and some latches at the very top secured to the door frame. Just thinking out loud.


All said, I don't have a clue what kind of door you have but it's worth thinking about now before it's too late.

If you could do your double rock through the open door that would save a lot of hassle.

Thanks for those ideas. I am going to look further into that. The garage door is Metal.
post #39 of 3764
Had some time to think about that door as I drove around to a couple of different carpet stores today in search of the perfect carpet for my HT.

what if you take everything out, all the tracks

Then put a 1x1 piece of trim moulding around the perimeter of the inner part of the opening. Lay the first section down tight to the ground (assuming you have a good seal at the bottom. At the edges screw through the 1x1 with stainless steel screws holding the section in place. Move up and do each section one at a time, If there are screw on hinges use them to secure section to section if not invent something else.
post #40 of 3764
Thread Starter 
Man, you read my mind. I was thinking the same Idea. Going to look at it now.
post #41 of 3764
I finally noticed that you actually had some pics of the door (hidden behind your piles of goodies)

I think you'll need to something with the venting at the bottom
I also think the door would benefit from some material glued to the back to reduce sound transfer (like compressed fiberglass panels glued to the back)
post #42 of 3764
Sandman, keep this in mind...
I'm not talking about some bass trap cyliners stuck in a corner here and there! I'm talking about real bass traps that actually do something to your overall reverb and bass response in the room!!!....SERIOUS BASS TRAP ABSORPTION.
This is one of the most overlooked in home theater construction, especially by enthusiests.
Bass waves are big and long(ehem...). They need serios space to absorb...thus the attic/ceiling recommendation.
Anyway, if it's workable, I'd work it into the "build", definitely!
Anyway, these all add up to better and better sound, even dubbing studio quality reproduction in response.
Never the less, at the very least you might strongly consider my seating/speaker placement suggestions as a foundation. Even response and flat response all around is a key core fundamental. It all adds up remember, just like gourmet cooking...only more lasting and worth while if you ask me. The difference between what everyone else ends up with , and world class!
Cheers
post #43 of 3764
Thread Starter 
The rear platform is a huge cavity filled with insulation. How about Drilling Holes or Making Slots in the front of the Platform/Riser to absorb the Bass?

A few people have done this in the past, do you know anything about that?

Thanks
Ruben
post #44 of 3764
Thread Starter 
If anyone here has used their Platform for a large Basstrap, let me know.
post #45 of 3764
Thread Starter 
I am also looking to hire someone in the South Florida Area to come analyze my room. If anyone can recommend someone, please let me know.

Thanks
Ruben
post #46 of 3764
Hello Sandmanx

Great thread keep the info coming. I have a construction question for you.
If you don't drywall the back of your walls do you still need the staggered walls? I was thinking you could just build a standard wall and put it a couple inches a way from the concrete and have the same effect. I'm going to be in a similair situation and just want to know if either way would work.

Also nice to see another Martin Logan theater. I have all ML's and an 18" Vely. as well.
post #47 of 3764
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68sting View Post

Hello Sandmanx

Great thread keep the info coming. I have a construction question for you.
If you don't drywall the back of your walls do you still need the staggered walls? I was thinking you could just build a standard wall and put it a couple inches a way from the concrete and have the same effect. I'm going to be in a similair situation and just want to know if either way would work.

Also nice to see another Martin Logan theater. I have all ML's and an 18" Vely. as well.

No it was not necessary to do a Stagger Studded wall against a concrete wall if your leaving the back of the wall open. We just happened to construct all our walls first before finding out we didn't have to seal the back side thats against the concrete.

We left a 1" gap between the framed wall and the concrete.

The purpose of a Stagger Studded wall is to minimize the transfer of sound through the drywall by making sure the drywall on both sides does not connect to the same verticle stud. It also increases the dept of your cavity too, to help trap sound.

So a 2" x 4" standard wall would of worked fine too if its running against a concrete wall with a gap between the Framing studs and concrete wall. But also, the deeper the cavity, the better.
post #48 of 3764
Thread Starter 
Just an update, all the Framing is pretty much done just some minor framing members that need to be added to the equpment rack. The A/C is supply is installed.

The Green Glue came in and the Fiber Optics came in for the Star Field Ceiling. We are insulating the room now with the R-19 and running the Conduits for the Projector, Sheet Rock will go up later today.

To keep the room sealed as much as possible, We will not be cutting any holes in the Sheet Rock for outlets or any lighting. All Outlets and Lighting will all be installed in the Soffits and Columns. The Outlets for the Equipment Rack will be installed inside the rack closet outside the wall. The outlets for the Sub and Speakers Behind the Screen wall will be outside the wall as well.

Here is the Framed Room. Its a bit messy cause I wanted to get these flicks before the Insulation goes up.









We added a emergency exit window so the room has 2 exits in case of a fire. That will be a removable section of the wall that will be sealed with a light silicone.



This is the equipment rack we still need to finish the framing on it. You see the HVAC Supply in it.
post #49 of 3764
Great work you are really making fast progress. As has been mentioned before that's the best looking lumber I've ever seen used for framing. Those "hand picked"ceiling joists almost look like "furniture" grade. I imagine the next customer got stuck with the crap I usually end up with.

I see that the drywall is in place on the outside of the garage door wall. What did you end up doing about the garage door? and keep the pictures coming.
post #50 of 3764
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

I see that the drywall is in place on the outside of the garage door wall. What did you end up doing about the garage door? and keep the pictures coming.

Thanks Man,

That wall was a headache. First we Drywalled the 16 foot wall laying down with studs under it to hold one side up a bit, but once it got double drywalled it was absolutely way to heavy to raise without a lift or much more men.

So we ended up cutting it into 2 even 8 foot sections and then were able to get them in place. Once all 3 walls were leveled and lined up we bolted them down to the floors then tied them together with a 16 footer at top. We Siliconed thoroughly between the joined walls and a Layer of drywall is going in between the 2 inside studs where the wall joins on the inside.

As for the Garage Door, we left the Metal one up as is and I just Secured the whole door so it doesn't rattle. On the Outside of the Garage Door we wil be putting up a dummy solid wood Garage Door with Insulation in between the Metal Door and the New Wood Door that will be held in place with Studs.

Today We have to draw out all the Studs and star hole positions on the 10 Sheets of sheet rock that will be the Top layer for the Ceiling. We are doing this so that none of the fibers for the Star Ceiling end up under a joist or get a screw through them.
post #51 of 3764
Thread Starter 
Today I also ordered my Chairs. Berkline just came out with a New Chair the 075 which we actually love. They are even a little wider than the 090's and we love the modern look of them. Our theater color combination is going to be Black and Red. So I used a picture of the Chair that was in other colors and changed the Colors in Photoshop.

The red we will be getting will be a brighter red than whats in the picture below. The chair will be a Red Leather with a Black Microfabric combination. The chairs will come with Buttkickers installed as well.

I got them from Leather-Direct which gave me the absolute best price I could find online.

post #52 of 3764
Those seats look like they belong in a $200,000 sports car. I used Leatherdirect myself and was quite surprised when the chairs arrived from the factory in 21 days. They came on a freight truck in these HUGE boxes. The driver actually helped me unpack my 6 and carry them inside and would not take a tip. He would take a cold soda and bottle of water. Let's hope you have the same level of service. You get a phone call from the freight company and then they want to come the next day if possible.

I think I spent about 2 hours cutting up those boxes into sizes small enough for the curbside pick-up. They also come with some pretty durable foam bag packaging which I saved and have used for a number of projects and protection during construction. It's kind of like big bags made with that foam on a roll stuff.
post #53 of 3764
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandmanX View Post

Today I also ordered my Chairs. Berkline just came out with a New Chair the 075 which we actually love. They are even a little wider than the 090's and we love the modern look of them. Our theater color combination is going to be Black and Red. So I used a picture of the Chair that was in other colors and changed the Colors in Photoshop.

The red we will be getting will be a brighter red than whats in the picture below. The chair will be a Red Leather with a Black Microfabric combination. The chairs will come with Buttkickers installed as well.

I got them from Leather-Direct which gave me the absolute best price I could find online.



Man, those chairs are nice looking!!
I wish I had them instead of my 090's.

Looking good, keep it up.

Craig
post #54 of 3764
Thread Starter 
Updates,
First Layer of Dry wall is up.
We raised the Ceiling to 9' By eliminating the Ceiling Joists and attaching 3 layers of 5/8"s Dry Wall with Green Glue between each Layer to the Existing Ceiling which has a 24" insulated cavity between the Garage Ceiling and the Floor boards above.

I spoke to a few People and they were not really sure on what would be Better Based on my Situation. It was a Toss up between RSIC Clips with Double 5/8's and GG vs 3 Layers of 5/8"s with 2 Layers of GG at 100% Coverage on each Layer. So I did the 3 Layers.

Here is Some Shots of Green Glue applied to a Layer.





I currently Got some incredible Renders of the Room from Ryan Kramer being worked on and BPape is Setting up the preliminary Treatments for the Room.

Stay Tuned..
post #55 of 3764
Are you saying that you took out all those "handpicked" good looking ceiling joists and just put 3 layers over top of the one existing layer of drywall?

If yes how did you extend your wall framing up to the ceiling? just curious.
post #56 of 3764
There was a lot of conversation with myself and Brian R. about how to deal with the ceiling. He wanted to move it up to 9' for a more spacious feel.

The options were:

1. Rip off the existing drywall and put up RSIC and hat channel and double DW with GG.

2. Go RSIC and hat under the existing DW - dismissed early on.

3. Go 3 layers of DW with GG in between the layers.

The 3 layers were determined to be probably a wash with option 1 performance wise for less cost.

My intial recommendation was to pull the drywall, use DC-04's to attach the walls to the joists above, and then do RSIC, 2 layers, and GG for the ceiling. This would be the max for isolation purposes. Cost became an issue and Brian said either method would yield good performace so he decided to just do 3 layers on the ceiling.

His main concern is keeping sound from getting to the outside world. Above him are 2 guest rooms that are rarely used.
post #57 of 3764
Sounds good. Still curious about how he dealt with the walls which were a foot short?
post #58 of 3764
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Sounds good. Still curious about how he dealt with the walls which were a foot short?

Yep, We pulled those Joists down.

We just Framed out Short Walls to run from the Top of the Existing walls to the Garage Ceiling. So the short walls were like 20' x 9" They got liquid Nailed and Hard Nailed to the Existing 100" Tall Wall.

We Have a 24" Insulated Cavity, so It should be Fine.
post #59 of 3764
Sandman,

Looks good, man you're making some progress! Mine is just crawling along.....
post #60 of 3764
Thread Starter 
So we Had to order some More Green Glue. Another 2 Cases to complete the Room.
So another $320.00 plus Shipping for that.

Also ended up picking up 18 More Sheets of 5/8"s Drywall to finish the Room, which was another $200.00.

Seats got ordered, The Bill was $4,600.00 for 7 Leather/Microfabric chairs Delivered.

Our cleaning Lady's Husband happens to do Taping and Mudding for a living and Said he will Do the whole Room for $75.00. I hate Taping / mudding so that was good news for me.

More to come
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Home Entertainment & Theater Builder › Dedicated Theater Design & Construction › Sandmans Home Theater Construction Begins!