New NHT Classic line to replace Super Audio - Page 340

Aaron,

Hi, you are much better off running your YPAO and selecting the appropriate crossover in your AVR (it will give you the best blend from subs to mains). I have not used YPAO for a long time (mostly familiar with Audyssey and somewhat familiar with MCACC/Pioneer and Sony's version of EQ).

You still need to use your X1 though as it has the appropriate filters to match the Evolution subs (unlike the X2 which was made for all other brands). I'm also still using as set of 2 W1's with 2 separate X1's (with the 20Hz mod). I use the LFE in, so it is basically a 'volume control' with the appropriate filters for the subs. If you think about it, it's the way most power subs would work - many have the HP/LP crossovers, but they are usually by-passed with using the XO function of the AVR.

I agree with you! The W1's actually had almost no vibration due to the dual opposing drivers, but I still like having the XO and Amps outside the box. My original am I used (Power 2 instead of the A1's) actually failed a few years ago and I went with an Emotiva XPA2. I have not had the desire to change my sub setup yet for that room, the W1's really do fine for its size.

Thanks everyone for the replies. It definitely makes sense to let YPAO handle the bass management, and I certainly can't complain about the sound I'm getting out of the A2000. It's nowhere near the build quality of the A1, but in terms of features and having the latest audio formats I feel like I've gained more than I've lost. Plus, the A1 will still live out the rest of it's days in our living room doing 2 channel audio for that TV and the occasional bit of music listening (when the kids aren't commanding the TV).

As far as the Evo's go, I run the M5/B5 combo for fronts, with an additional set of W2's for more flexibility with the bass. The X1 has helped to tweak the bass level a bit, since it sounded kind of thin after a multi-point YPAO run.

Aaron,

Glad you're enjoying your system, that's what really matters. As for the 'thinner' bass, you can simply bring the level of the subs up after you run YPAO. Have fun!!!

I have to agree, they need to do something different. One thing that makes the Classics more expensive is the actual box - the curves (top and bottom of all the satellites) can be made straight again. The finish is also a bit more expensive. I also wish they would bring back manufacturing here in the USA, that would be great. The drivers are still sourced out in Europe, but that's fine. They will be in competition to a lot of others like Aperion Audio and SVS Sound - they just came out with a new series that looks promising. None of them have the low end of the Fours, but that's a moot point when using subs.

The Power2 was great when it worked. A part failed and was no longer available since the split with NHT and DEQX. I wish NHT was able to keep that alliance or with another like company. They had something good going there. I would love to have a powered, sealed Four with on-board amps. We discussed this before. Emotiva was the best option for the price. The only thing is that their amps are BIG and class A/B (so not as efficient as the ICE amps which run really cool (they are class D based).

On another note, over the holidays I picked up a pair (with the special going on) of the Absolute Walls for my rears (everything in my 11.2 setup are classic based except for the rears which were the new Zeros). The Zeros were moved to another room of course - great little speakers.

Aperion just had some hefty price increases too... which helps NHT out. The new SVS line certainly looks good on paper..

The curved top/bottom of the cabinets are to prevent standing waves, but alot of very good speakers get away with straight cabinet panels... and the NHT cabinets are solid and well braced (although based on Stereophile's measurements, the AT could use some more bracing of the long side panels), so I wonder how much is really gained in terms of performance... and is it worth it when the cost of the added cabinet complexity and the aluminum rails is taken into account.

Yes, I do understand the purpose of the curved cabinets. The same with all the older (before SB/ST series) with the slanted front baffle to cancel internal cabinet standing waves - which were also more expensive to make. But, I have to say, at least to me, that I much better like the look of the classic series with the curves and rails. They are audio bling to me and sexy looking. I've check out many speakers and NHT's are still great sound/looks for the price. My wife likes them a lot also (even with the grills off). Will I check out other speakers - well, I'm always looking and listening - I like to check out what's out there. As for subs, I would like to try out SVS new SB1-Ultra (since it's sealed and looks extremely good on the performance side (a bit expensive at $1600 each though). Subs are one area that NHT really needs to work on. I had a pair of Classic 12 subs and was not really impressed and then went with dual W1's, which sounded much more solid (an I still have them).

I'm hoping with this increase in price they are working on updating their series which has not been done since the introduction of the Classic series. Speakers don't really 'age' though since the technology has not changed much over the years, but to keep up with the competition IMO they will need to give a reason for new customers to move to NHT and it has to be appealing enough for those to try them.

Yea, I enjoyed the last go around about NHT's price increases as it really had staying power. They did explain in their link why their prices went up, and in the end all that matters is the perceived value. As far as moving manufacturing back to the states... I would imagine it still would be less expensive to build them in China.. However perhaps Mexico could be an option, as I remember Polk used to make their speakers down south. As far as California goes, the NHT folks are Cali guy's, so I don't seem them going to Texas or anywhere else for that matter.

I think the classic series is a bit long in the tooth as you say, as this thread started almost seven years ago. When I spoke with a guy at NHT I was told the classic series wouldn't be replaced in the near future, but that doesn't mean that perhaps another line would be released.
Edited by unbridled_id - 1/26/13 at 6:54pm

Got it! NHT used to have their drivers made by Seas and Peerless (designed by NHT of course), but not sure about their latest drivers.You may be correct and Jack Hidley was always on the money with his info and part of the original designs with the Classic series (and the ones before).

Forgot to mention on your post about ribbon drivers. They are quick and responsive, but can tend to have a smaller listening window. I do like them but feel that as long as a good driver (type does not matter) is implemented correctly, it will sound great. Look at the Revel Ultima 2 series - very expensive speakers all using aluminum drivers, including the tweeter. If you have a chance to listen to them, they are absolutely incredible in the sound stage they create, very dynamic, and detailed - and very expensive. Also, good horn drivers can be very impressive also (and are usually in speakers that are very efficient - JBL's top of the line Everest is based on this, as are some of the ones that built them in house (small companies) like Seaton Sound and JTR. Again, all about how the drivers are implemented and crossover/box design.

I figured you knew why NHT chose to go with curved top/bottom panels... and didn't intend for my post to sound like I was trying to explain the purpose to you...

Moreso just stating that while that is the intended purpose, there are some very good speakers that skip on the curved cabinets and still perform very well - Salk Songtower was the first to come to mind, athough that uses a mass loaded transmission line, so maybe standing waves aren't an issue (I don't know).

Either way, I'm wondering, on an objective level, how much is gained by using the curved tops (and bottoms on the bookshelves) with the Classic series... I don't doubt there is a benefit, or NHT wouldn't have done it... but I wonder if it is worth the manufacturing premium at this point. Maybe a refreshed cabinet design, using nonparallel but straight sides would serve the same purpose and be a bit cheaper... I have no idea though.

Personally, I'm not a bit fan of the curved bottom and need for aluminum rails, aesthetically speaking... but that's just a matter of preference. Hell, I don't even like gloss black... but sound trumps looks...
Edited by alphaiii - 1/30/13 at 2:14pm

I too am not a fan of having to put the rails on the bottom, though the NHT's curves look nice. I am not sure about curved cabinets costing the same as straight cabinets...

Well, not necessarily like that. I was thinking more like the new SVS Ultra line, but perhaps without the beveled edges. Like I said, I have no idea what that would cost in comparison to the current cabinets.

Hi Alphaii,

No worries - I did not take it as an attack in any way. I have not heard any Salks before so can't comment on them (I would like to hear them though).

I do like the curved cabinet of the Classics just because I do then they look sexy and I also prefer the gloss black. I also appreciate other finishes - some are just wonderful works of art. I'm not sure of the actual true benefit of the curves, but it makes total sense that it would decrease internal standing waves. Also, curves can be more rigid which would also help. I've owned NHT's since the original Super Zeros / Super Ones. I then went to the 2.5i / 1.5i with center (couldn't afford the 3.3's, though they had and extremely good bottom end for a full range speaker). From there I went with the ST4 / SB3 series (with matching center and sub). They just sounded a bit better than the 1.5's. I though I would just stick with them until John brought in the Classics. We did some listening, comparing them to the ST4's, 2.5i, and other NHT's. We were actually blown away since we were not expecting that much of a difference. Anyway, they just threw a HUGE soundstage - usually not found in towers. I was sold on them right away and sold my whole NHT collection in exchange for the Classics. Did I compare them to other makes/models before - yep. John at the time also sold Revels, PSB and JM Labs. He also had a lot of recent trade-in's from B&W, Genesis, Infinity, etc. So it was easy to do comparison tests in the same room - level matched with the same electronics.

Now, are the Classics the best for their price - well there are many speakers out there that are pretty incredible also. As for comparison to other NHT's, I actually think the Evolution (M5/M6) were the most forgiving of any room. As for the subs, I did not like the Classic subs (had two of the Twelves) and went instead with two W1's. As for the best sounding NHT - that would be the Xd's, they were absolutely incredible - but did not pass the WAF - my wife thought they were UGLY... He loves the looks of the Classics and actually preferred the towers for the front saying they 'looked' more balanced.

As for the best speaker that I've actually heard - that would go to the Revel Ultima Salon2. Absolutely incredible imaging, definition, and detail. But- WAY out of my budget. I also like a lot of the JM Lab series (although not their looks). B&W's to me look really cool (listened a lot to the 802Ds and some of their other Diamond line) but something about them just didn't set well with me - the mid-range was just not to my liking. I know they are incredible speakers and a lot of owners here at AVS that own them. I guess each to their own. Speakers are really subjective compared to any other part of the audio chain, both in looks and in sound. They also have to fit within a person's budget and room needs (lots of my friends are very happy with a simple HTIB or speaker bar).

Enough ranting...

Interesting! They are the same company - Harman International. One speaker I would like to hear are the Everest (ugly to me but I bet pretty impressive sounding). I've always had a place in my heart for JBL's since I first heard them back in the late 70's. I've owned several different pairs in the past.

Perhaps now that they raised the prices they can offer the 30% off gift card deal again. I waited for it this fall and it didn't come out. But the next pair of speakers I get won't be NHT's either way.

I remember when the M5's were getting blown out for a real nice price. I wonder what a pair of those would have sounded like..
http://www.nhthifi.com/ServiceCenter/Evolution-M5-monitor-vintage-nht-speakers
Edited by unbridled_id - 1/30/13 at 8:43pm

They were pretty impressive along with their wall mountable version. We set up a whole system in my brothers house with them in his main listening room. The other rooms used the Classics and KEF (two separate rooms).

Would you take a pair of the M5's over a pair of classic 3's ????

There are other brands that had a slanted baffle like the new SVS Ultra. Thiel comes to mind and they sounded pretty good. The slanted baffle was suppose to help with time alignment, not sure if that is the case with the new SVS. I would really like to hear them.

Did NHT tell you this or is this your opinion ?