New NHT Classic line to replace Super Audio - Page 341

I simply asked you to substantiate your claim and you have yet to do so....

"Maybe a refreshed cabinet design, using nonparallel but straight sides would serve the same purpose and be a bit cheaper.."

that was the question .... and your answer was no. I asked you how you arrived at that conclusion, in other words which folks who manufacture speakers told you this ?

The other guy said he didn't know, I leaned in one direction and you clearly lean in another. I am curious as to how you arrived at your conclusion, as I found the gentleman's question to be an interesting one.

"Maybe a refreshed cabinet design, using nonparallel but straight sides would serve the same purpose and be a bit cheaper.."

that was the question .... and your answer was no. I asked you how you arrived at that conclusion, in other words which folks who manufacture speakers told you this ?

The other guy said he didn't know, I leaned in one direction and you clearly lean in another. I am curious as to how you arrived at your conclusion, as I found the gentleman's question to be an interesting one. You don't have to answer the question if you are unable to...
Edited by unbridled_id - 2/1/13 at 3:40am

Hey Guys,

I don't like getting in the middle of any arguments but would just like to give my opinion. Those contributing here, including you, are all here for the same reason - to learn. We all have our opinions, biases, beliefs, and different educational backgrounds. Constructive criticism is always good, it makes us think. It's just not good to cut anyone down as there is no benefit. Sorry for the rant, but just wanted to put this up.

I'd like to keep this thread alive, which may mean being OT sometimes, but that fine. It still is learning...

As for the cost of making speakers, NHT did mention back in the day before the Classics came out that they went with China to keep competitive in the market. I remember this well as I was a downer for me - I really wanted them to keep it here in the US (with the drivers being made by Seas and Peerless like the previous models.

On another part of cost of building - John was in constant touch with NHT, and so were many customers like us. They will actually answer your questions via email or phone and are pretty easy to talk with. So, as for the slanted design of such speakers like the 2.5i, 1.5, etc. they were more expensive to build then a rectangular version. Reason: all pieces were of different size and the edges had to me mitered at different angles to fit (instead of 90 degree cuts). This increased the labor/tooling required to build them which is why they went away from this design. I'm not sure how much the curved surfaces of the Classics cost on top of a regular rectangular box, but something like that can double the labor price unless they found a way to make it cheaper (one of the reasons B&W Nautilus speakers are so expensive). Anything beyond the typical rectangle will cost more, how much - I don't know...

Hopefully as mentioned before, NHT will come out with new designs. We can start a new thread when that happens. I can't see myself upgrading unless I find there really is a good reason to - which I did with the Classics and previous models.

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You know, I"m not quite sure on the models. They were way back in the day when the woofer was made of some type of pulpy material (pretty thick looking) and they did use titanium tweeters. I don't even have pictures of them. I also had Advent Legacy's which I actually liked more at the time and then went with NHT's. Do I have other speakers in the house besides NHT's now - well yes. The master bedroom has in-walls made by Parasound. Another room has speakers from Pinnacle Speakers (Black Diamond Series), and my editing room uses monitors from Fosgate Audionics - about the size of the Threes, but heavier. I have some old B&W DM200's in the garage (planning on Ebaying those as they are not being used anymore and still work great).

So which Revel's do you currently have? The PSB Imagine B's are great speakers - I have great respect for that company as they have always put out great products. I wish they would get into 'sealed' systems, but there is always the cost of lower output with them. I totally forgot about BA speakers, owned them also. I actually have one of their subs still (CS12). I also have had Energy speakers - got rid of them except for the sub that's in my son's room.

M&K make great speakers for HT. They never went that low, but XO at 80 Hz had them singing.

So, did you go with the JBL's / Revel's to increase output? They are much more sensitive. That's one thing I which NHT did was figure out a way to increase their sensitivity while maintaining a sealed system. It would be nice to have 90db or higher.

I have also been long interested in picking up a pair of imagine b's. My NAD dealer is also a PSB dealer and sells b-stock PSB for a nice price. If you go back in this thead to page 282 you will see John's opinion regarding how the Imagine b's compare to the 3's... I have asked three people who sell both brands which speaker they prefer (3 vs B) and all three said the Imagine B... for what it is worth..
Edited by unbridled_id - 2/1/13 at 11:14am

Look I asked you a question and you couldn't answer it. No need to go back to it as it's not a big deal, and I agree with moving on.
Edited by unbridled_id - 2/1/13 at 11:04am

I think it really is subjective. I listened to them A/B XO'd at 80 (the Threes go an octave lower, so to make it the same, they were XO'd with no sub) and also level matched. They both sound great. The midrange in the PSB's is different (and can be preferred). I found it 'softer' and the NHT's more 'bite'. So again, preference. The mid bass though I give to the NHT's, a bit more solid. You really can't go wrong with either. I'd be very happy with the PSB's in my system. Looks wise, for me, goes to the NHT's as I love gloss black - always have and the soft rounded look.

That's actually a big difference in sensitivity - like doubling the power of your amplifier. I have heard the F12's, very nice speakers (as is the full setup). I do prefer direct radiating speakers (not di/bi-pole) for surrounds though, especially for multichannel music. It's my personal preference.

What sub are you mating with your system?

OOPS - edit, just realized I missed it - B12 subs - great match!!!

I'm looking to buy a full NHT setup. I'm looking to get Absolute towers and 3C center. How much power should I be sending these? I've been looking at Emotiva amps and a couple others. I have limited space on where I can place my speakers, thats why I am going with NHT. Roughly 6-7' apart and about 9-10' away from the sitting location.

As far as rear/sides go, is there any difference in sound between wall mounted speakers and absolute zero?

Thanks for any advice.

Emotiva should be plenty sufficient. What else are you looking at? I think just about anything that's well-built and designed for home theater will be enough power. I wouldn't buy an entry-level amp or receiver, but beyond that you'll probably be OK. (I noticed a substantial improvement when I moved form an entry-level Onkyo receiver to a an NAD T 753, for example.)

The AZs are designed to sound best on stands, but sound quality will suffer somewhat if they're wall-mounted. The AWs are designed to sound their best on the wall—presumably pretty close to how the AZs sound on stands.

So, just pick which one matches your intended use. If you're not sure, I guess the AZs are a little more versatile—I think you'd have some trouble trying to put the AWs on stands.

I suspect NHT and others here would tell you to get the 3C, but I have a hard time believing the Absolute Center wouldn't be a better match to the Absolute Tower due to its driver complement. But that's the party line so the 3C is probably a safer bet than going with my crazy logic in this case.

Hope that helps!

Yes that does help alot! Thank you. The XPA-3 is rated @ 200 watts per channel, would that be too much?

As far as wall mounting goes, in my room they will have to be mounted up fairly high (7'+) so I was thinking I should get AZ and angle them.

My understanding (someone else can feel free to correct me) is that your amp can't really be too powerful for your speakers. A powerful amp is only a problem for speakers if you play them way too loud.

With an underpowered amp, you might get clipping at lower volume levels, which can damage the speakers. So the most common problem with amp/speaker pairings is that you push the amp too hard and it damages the speakers. If you have a powerful amp, you have extra headroom before clipping and can play the speakers louder, up to a point—too loud can still damage them, but the volume at which you damage them with a good amp is higher than the volume at which you damage them with a bad amp. Make sense?

In any case, my understanding is that Emotiva makes quality gear, and I think the XPA-3 should be plenty of amp for you. The only way it could be too much is if you're spending more money than you need to, but I don't really think that's the case.

Ah, I see. I hope my first answer didn't sound condescending.

How far away from you will the surround speaker be mounted? The farther the mount point from your seating position, the less the angle will matter. Also, you have the option of hanging the AZs "upside down" with the tweeter on the bottom, which could mitigate things (but it depends on the off-axis characteristics of the AWs).

Assuming they're far enough away, the frequency response of the AWs will change a bit from their being off axis. But the AZ frequency response will change a bit from being mounted on the wall. It's hard to say which situation would give better performance. As long as you've got some decent horizontal clearance, my pick would probably be the AWs, but that's a shot in the dark without seeing off-axis response measurements for the AZs and AWs.

Unless anybody here has a good idea, I'd suggest you contact NHT and see what they recommend. They've always been helpful when I've dealt with them (if maybe not super responsive due to being a small organization). The manual doesn't go into much detail about mounting configuration for the AW. In fact, it references more info available elsewhere, but if so, I couldn't find it.

My AZs for surround are currently on stands, but in my old apartment I had them on the wall. If I was in that situation again, I'd buy the AWs. The AZs are heavy enough that it's hard to get them mounted at an exact angle anyway. I think the AWs are just a more elegant solution, if nothing else, but it's possible the AZs could be the better sounding option.

Gotcha, better to have more power than not enough. Thanks for clearing that up. I read (skimmed) through some of the NHT manual and it said 25w up to 150w so was just worried that I'd blow them. Wouldn't want to spend that much money on speakers and ruin them. As it is right now with my current setup I normally listen around -35/-30 for movies on my Onkyo reciever.

This is what I'm trying to decide, 5 or 7 channel. As long as I've had a home theater system I've always had 7 channels. Well the lady is wanting to add/remodel switch things around. So that gives me an excuse to buy new speakers. My room is 20x18 and the sitting location is diagonal almost in the middle of the room. So with the help from Audessey I'm hoping that it'll all turn out alright. The rears will be 7' and 8' (roughly). Sides become an issue now and why I was thinking AZ with mounts. Since the couch is at an angle, the sides wont be firing right towards us.

I never noticed that the Absolute Center is made to go with the towers. Even one of their sales people (outside retailer) told me to go with 3C, probably just for more commision.

Has anyone used 2.1 SuperZero as surround speakers?
Edited by Randall.White - 4/16/13 at 12:02am

Are you planning on using the Onkyo as a pre/pro to drive the Emotiva, and then using the Onkyo's amp section for the surround channels?

If so, you might be fine just using the Onkyo. Although the NHTs will reward an upgrade in amplification, as I found with my NAD receiver.

I might be the wrong person to ask about this. I run a 4.1 setup, but my focus is on music. So I don't know that I've ever experienced whether 6 or 7 channels help matters. In any case, I think either the AZs or the AWs would entail some compromises. Like I said, I'd probably just do the AWs for ease of installation and aesthetics, but sound quality is hard to predict.

I think they're generally pretty good. I had an NHT SW12 that I wasn't crazy about, but I absolutely loved the NHT U1 I had, and the XdS that I currently have. So generally I think their sealed designs are pretty good. I haven't' heard the current subs, but they're sealed.

Again, though, I'm focused on music. A more traditional ported sub might give you better volume for home theater. But I've never had complaints about either of the sealed NHT subs I've owned in that department.

I might be fine just with a receiver? I was just worried with the lower sensitivity that I'd need a amp. My current Onkyo is only 2 channels driven (115w). So I'm looking to get a better receiver either way, maybe I'll just try it out with out a amp for awhile.

I suspect most people here are using a receiver rather than a separate power amp. A good receiver should work great for your purposes.

As mentioned, I ran my full Classic setup with an NAD T 753 and was very happy with it. I think others here have used receivers such as the Onkyo 800 series. Others can feel free to chime in about what they use.

Or you could get the Emotiva amp and their pre/pro, which would also sound great. I think there are a lot of good options.

Hi Randall,

You got a lot of great info from Matt already. I'll just add my 2cents if it matters any.

First off, if you get one of the higer/mid range AVR's, you should be fine. And extra outboard amp won't gain you anything unless you run our of power, which you may not in your room. If and amp/AVR is operating within it's specs, you'll be fine. As Matt stated, NAD is a great choice. If going with Onkyo, the the 800 series or higher. If Denon, The 3XXX series or higher. They all have great room correction and enough power. If by chance your AVR is running out of steam (i.e. clipping, which is much worse for your speakers than too much power as already mentioned), then you can add the Emotiva XPA3. I had to do that because my media room is heavily treated with broadband traps).

As for a sub, I'm also in the boat of 'Sealed' designes because they are usually tigher, but there are many great ported designs (and you get more output). NHT does make decent subs, but if you can swing it, companies like SVS make some great sealed subs.

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box
3 choices at three differerent prices from SVS. Don't get me wrong, the NHT subs are fine, but the mid-range one from SVS is cheaper and will go lower than the NHT's 12. SVS specializes in subs- they are great at desinging them and can compete with anyone within the same price classes.

As for the center - well IMO the center for HT is the MOST important speaker. I would go with the 3C, regardless of what you get for the others in the Classic line. I differ in this respect than what Matt mentioned - it's my opinion though. Any of the centers will work fine and sometimes it depends on where you are placing it. Some folks have to put them in a cabinet which can have space restrictions. They all have the same timber match. As for the surrounds, if wall mounting, definately go with the Absolute Walls. You can mount the Absolute Zeros, but they are more effective on stands. I have both and compared them (I'm using the AW's as rears). And yes, the Super Zeros will work for surrounds, just make after running the setup in the AVR you set the XO correctly. For the SZ, set them at 100 Hz if the AVR sets them lower than that.

Good luck on your upgrade path here and keep us posted.

Hi Guys,

Thought I'd chime in on the convo.
I've been runnning two NHT systems in my house, one system in my den w/ two AT's as Front L/R and four Classic Threes as wides and surronds and a Classic Three center, (also 2 subs). This 7.2 system is being power by an Emo XPA 5 and a UPA 2 (for surround chnls) w/ a Denon 4311 in Pre amp mode.
This system sounds fantastic in my 17'x15' room. I've never tried this system without the Emo's connected so I can't tell you if the speakers would struggle without them, but I seriously doubt if they would, (with a proper receiver) even w/ the low (86db) sensitivity.
I also have a 5.1 bedroom system w/ 4 Classic Two's, a Classic Two C and a 10" powered sub driven by only a Denon 3311. This Receiver has no trouble at all driving the Classic Two's w/ no extra amps at all.
I, like you, was a little concerned about the low sensitivity of these speakers initially, but rest assured, as mattwardfh has mentioned, with a proper receiver, I don't think you'll have any difficulty at all with the speakers being under powered and also, having too much power (w/ an external amp) is not really an issue, more power just gives you lots of headroom to run your speakers louder more clearly.

One more thing. I see you're considering either the Classic Three Center or the Absolute Center. If I were you and money is not an issue, I would definitely go with the C3C.There is a HUGE difference between the two, in my opinion. If money is an issue, then maybe check out ebay or audiogon for deals, that's how I found all of my Classic 3's and 2's. Got em all for less than 1/2 price, all in like new condition. It pays to shop around and don't be afraid to buy used. I wish I got my AT's at the same type of discount. However, even at retail price the NHT's are great speakers for the money and of course there is nothing wrong with having "peace of mind" when buying new.

Thanks you guys for that advice. I will be picking some up very soon.

I took some time last night and actually looked at Marantz receivers. Comparing them to Onkyo 8xx and Denon 33xx. I never realized Marantz is all channels driven. Since I'm going through a dealer on my speakers, they said I can get a % on a Marantz receiver and it makes it priced right on with its competition. Any of you guys running the SR5007? if so, how is it? any complaints?

Randall,

Marantz is part of the same company as Denon, which is D&M. They are good receivers and you should be happy with it. If the deal is great from your dealer, go with it. Accessories4less also carries Refurb units from Marantz, Denon, and Onkyo - with warranties from the companies as they are an authorized dealer. Here is the 5007:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR5007/MARANTZ-SR5007-100w-x7-NetworkingTheater-Receiver-w/AirPlay-3D-4K/1.html

But, if you are getting a good deals from your dealer - much better to support them. I very much believe that. Our NHT dealer moved and I always purchased through him (there really is no NHT dealer here now). Also, if you have issues, it's eaier to take care ofl.

Well this dealer is on the other side of the country. I've tried contacting local (WA) dealers and none have emailed me back. So I'm moving on to another dealer.