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New NHT Classic line to replace Super Audio - Page 345

post #10321 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

For blu ray movies is rear my best option? How many movies are actually made with 9/11.1?

There are actually no movies that are made with 9/11.1 (not sure if there ever will be for the home). The Heights/Wides are derived to create a larger sound stage that has greater immersion:

http://audyssey.com/technologies/dsx


As far as movies with 7.1 encoded (keep in mind that the 2 back channels are mostly 'derived/created' when re-mixed for home movies) can be found on several sites. Here is one of them:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=91824


But, new technologies will have decoding for up to 11.1, by DTX Neo:X. Not sure if this will come for the home, mostly for theaters now (all the extra speakers on the sides/surrounds in theaters are duplicates of the surround).:


http://www.dts.com/professionals/sound-technologies/audio-processing/dts-3d-audio.aspx

DTS_Home_Theater_NeoX_infosheet.pdf 3341k .pdf file

Again, bottom line in your room - do what works best for your ears. Find a movie that has 7.1 so you can hear 7.1 in it's native format. Then try Heights or Wides. In my room, the best effect came from Wides (more immersive). I finally went with 11.1 for full immersion. Now, this is great for movies, but not so for music. Multi-channel music works great (DVD-Audio and SACD), but 2 channel red-book I found does not - at least in my room.
post #10322 of 10792
The Expendables 2 is the only movie I know of that takes a stab at 11.1, it uses a discrete 7.1 mix, but claims it's "optimised" for NEO:X, whatever that means.

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news/article/exclusive-the-expendables-2--111-neo-x-audio-review/13896
post #10323 of 10792
As far as I know, only flagship models (and only the most recent) even have NEO:X decoding on-board. I know for Denon, it's only the 2540 that has it. I don't think it'll ever become that popular in the consumer market for the mass majority, mostly just a niche of folks like here at AVS. Most of my friends and family are just fine with a speaker bar. And those (my two brothers) like me that have a dedicated room are just happy with 5.1. IMO a good 5.1 setup is pretty awesome. Beyond that is nice icing on the cake, but not necessary. For most, again IMO, I think there is more to be had by adding multiple subwoofers to even out the bass response as that is where most problems are with the audio portion. Again, most folks would not want to add more subs in their room as most rooms are multi-use.
post #10324 of 10792
Thanks for all the help.

One question about surrounds. Right now I have some PL-66 BIC speakers, I know that mixing front stage and surrounds is ok but I'm wondering if I replace them with the SZ or AW. Will that benefit the overall sound? If I can get away with keeping my current surrounds I could possibly swing another sub.

Thanks again, I'm really learning alot from this forum.
post #10325 of 10792
Randall,

As long as your front sound stage is timber matched, your surrounds don't have to be (especially for movies - for music it's better to be timber matched). Also, if you are using Audyssey, it pretty much levels the playing field a bit so they sound more similar. If you're happy with it, then you really don't need to replace the BIC's. One thing though, the BIC's are VERY sensitive compared to NHT's. When you run Audyssey, it may set the levels for the NHT's very high and the BICs very low. That is fine as long as it's within the range (cannot be higher than +12db or lower than -12db.

IMO, getting another sub will give you the most benefit. Try to get one that is identical or has specs that are close to the same as the one you already have. There is a lot of info in AVS about doing multiple subs, best locations to start with, level matching, etc. Having more than one sub can really help even out the bass response in your room.
post #10326 of 10792
Thanks for the reply. The BIC's are the same color too so that would pass with the wife. I am hoping that Outlaw is going to have another sale and I'll buy another LFM-1EX or a Plus. I think (2) Outlaw subs will give me enough output to at least hold me over for another year.

Has anyone compared the Absolute tower to the Classic 4?
post #10327 of 10792
Hi Randall,

About the Absolute Towers and the Classic 4's. First off, there has been a lot of discussion earlier in the thread comparing the Threes and AT's with some preferring one over the other for different reasons. I did my own comparisons as I had set up a close friends system using AT's (compared them in my room first).

As for the Threes and AT's, I prefer the Threes while others feel they are too 'analytic' I prefer the midrange of the Threes to the Fours, which seem a bit 'softer' to me. This may be due to the difference of the Threes having all metal drivers and the AT's having polypropylene drivers (except for the tweeter). The lower XO for the midrange for the AT's is at 450Hz and 800 HZ for the Threes, also accounting for differences. Now, for HT purposes, the AT's will play louder (has more piston area) than the threes with the same amount of power applied, even though on paper they have the same sensitivity (close enough). The Threes will dig deeper but that's a moot point when you XO at 80 Hz.

Now as for the Fours, they are actually a different beast. Even though the top portion Fours 'look' just like the Threes with a bass driver added, it's not so. The midrange sound is quite a bit different and I prefer the Fours. Jack Hidley, who was one of the designers of the Classic series, confirmed this much earlier in the thread. The 6.5" driver for the Threes is made to play in the lower octaves while the one in the Fours is not- it's a 'Lower Midrange" driver and is XO'd to the woofer at 125Hz. The Fours will play louder and very deep (with room gain, it easily is flat in my room to 25Hz. Do I use it 'Full Range"? No, I do not, I XO the Fours at 60 Hz to the subs. Keep in mind that the best place for speaker placement (imaging) is not the best place for bass (subwoofers) in just about all rooms. Having the Fours XO'd at the higher freq does give it incredible dynamic range with no strain.

So, IMO, the Fours are much better than the AT's, but between the AT's and Threes - it's really a preference. Keep in mind though, the Fours are HEAVY and large (twice as deep as the AT's) - they are 16" deep compared to the AT's 7.25". If size is a concern, you may want to look at this. They both look great, as all the Classic series do (as long as you like piano high gloss black). If I had the room, I'd love to have Fours all the way around. But as most folks here, we have limits to room and budget concerns.

Can you go wrong with either choice, not really. I can easily live with either one, even though I prefer the Fours. Sorry, that probably does not help in your choice. It would be great if you could listen to them first. I've been lucky that I've had friends and family that purchased NHT (on my recommendation) and have set up their systems so can do a lot of comparisons as I like to test the equipment in my room first before setting it up elsewhere. Am I a 'fanboy', not really. I like a lot of other speakers also and have different brands in different rooms in our house. I do think though that NHT still represents very good value for the buck (they sound great, have a great finish, and are built well from a company I respect). There is other great competition though (such as SVS Ultra Towers which have similar specs and finish), also a company I have great respect for (and there are others). I've owned NHT's since the introduction of the original Super Zeros in the 80's (along with speakers from JBL, Infinity, Pinnacle, Fosgate Audionics, Energy, Boston Acoustics, Velodyne, B&W, Parasound, and a few others). I've still stuck with the NHTs...

Good luck in your decision.
post #10328 of 10792
Very nice write-up, Ray.
post #10329 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by defmoot View Post

Very nice write-up, Ray.

Thanks, hopefully a helpful one. Speakers are really subjective, so one of the hardest components to describe.
post #10330 of 10792
Wow, thank you. That was really helpful. I am looking to add some sort of 2-channel listening in my game room. Maybe I'll order the AT and the Classic 4's and see which ones I like best for my living room and use the others in my game room. Which will be for watching sporting events, some music and the rare movie for the nephews and nieces.
post #10331 of 10792
Randall,

Once you get your speakers and set them up, give us your impressions. When you do your comparisons, set them up side by side (not ideal, but will give you an idea). On the Fours, just don't block the side firing woofer or the rear port which is at the bottom rear - slot type so causes no 'chuffing' like some ports can. Only the bottom woofer is ported, the top portion is sealed like the Threes (they need to be at least a foot away from the wall if possible). The AT's can be place right up to the wall.
post #10332 of 10792
How much room is there needed for the side woofer? I was told that they can fire towards each other or away, which ever way will have more room. I am limited on where I can place them in my room.

I didn't realize that the 3's and 4's were so much different. Thanks for clearing that up.
post #10333 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

How much room is there needed for the side woofer? I was told that they can fire towards each other or away, which ever way will have more room. I am limited on where I can place them in my room.

I didn't realize that the 3's and 4's were so much different. Thanks for clearing that up.

The Threes and Fours are the same as far as the tweeter and midrange (upper midrange). Then it really changes as in the Three, the woofer is both lower midrange and bass. In the Fours the 6.5" driver is lower midrange.

It does not matter what orientation you have the Fours, as long as the side is not up against a wall with the driver facing the wall (then you would face them in). So yes, your correct, in or out is good, which ever gives them enough room. Our dedicated media room is very small and space limited also. I have them facing towards each other as that was the best configuration. You can see a pic in my profile (it's been changed a bit, but the speakers are in the same place - I need to update the pictures one of these days). Due to the size of the room I had to heavily treat it with broadband traps. It's only 12' x 13' x 8'.
post #10334 of 10792

I forget about that one since it's fairly new to their line.ttHh8k

post #10335 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdilsi View Post

I forget about that one since it's fairly new to their line.ttHh8k

I think you're referring to the Absolute Towers which are the newest in the Classic line (along with the Absolute Walls and the re-emergence of the Zeros). The Fours, Threes, Twos, Absolutes have been around since the first batch of Classics.

Speaking of which, this line has been around, unchanged, for very long. Still waiting for a newer version. I'd still like something on the order of the Fours, but totally sealed instead of the hybrid design that stands now.
post #10336 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post

Speaking of which, this line has been around, unchanged, for very long. Still waiting for a newer version. I'd still like something on the order of the Fours, but totally sealed instead of the hybrid design that stands now.

I have to wonder if we'll ever see a new line (hope I'm wrong though). All of the newest releases from NHT have been some iteration of existing designs (Absolute Tower, Absolute Wall), or revival of old designs (SuperZero 2.0/2.1), with the exception of the subwoofers.

It seems NHT is trying to ride these old designs as long as possible... but in a market where "new is cool", I'm not sure how much longer they can do it.

Don't get me wrong, the Three's are among the best speakers I've owned, and they are so well regarded, I can see why NHT wouldn't want to just drop them for a newer speaker... but when I see them often going for half (or less than half) of retail price on the used market, I have to think some folks are losing interest a bit.
post #10337 of 10792
Alphaiii,

I'd have to agree, I don't think we'll see anything new anytime soon. To be honest, there is not much to improve on the Classic series without raising the price. They are built well with very good drivers. But, I'm still hoping smile.gif.
post #10338 of 10792
Just wanted to drop in and offer some comments on my recently finished 2.1 computer setup. I ended up getting a refurbished Velodyne DEQ-8R for $230 shipped, and man has this been a fantastic purchase. With a 120Hz high pass filter, it blends perfectly with the SuperZero 2.0s, and is surprisingly powerful for an 8" sub. It plays low and accurately, and is a great choice for music. The SZ 2.0s really came alive after hooking up the sub because the amp was having to do less. I have the speakers sitting on Audioengine speaker stands, and it points them right at my ears. These have really been a wonderful purchase, they are very detailed and the imaging is fantastic. At some point I will upgrade to a stronger amp, as I sometimes feel myself wanting a little extra, but the little Topping t-amp performs well.

Hard to believe I only payed $120 for these speakers... eek.gif
post #10339 of 10792
Transmaniacon,

That's an awesome system for your computer!!! Sure beats standard computer speakers! Glad you were able to put it together for such a low price. The Velodyne looks like a perfect matched (smaller driver, yet powerful).
post #10340 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post

Transmaniacon,

That's an awesome system for your computer!!! Sure beats standard computer speakers! Glad you were able to put it together for such a low price. The Velodyne looks like a perfect matched (smaller driver, yet powerful).

Thanks! It really sounds great, and a big improvement over the powered Mackies I replaced. This sub is actually quite impressive, it has DSP with 4 sound modes, a calibration mic for set up, a remote, and the high-pass filter. 180 watts RMS is plenty to rock my bedroom!



post #10341 of 10792
Interesting! I have one of Velodynes older version of that sub (10" one), the DPS 10 (also being used in our master bedroom). I think it's on the order of 10 years old. Here is a pic (looks almost the same as DEQ series with the same options for digital processing - though I'm sure you'rs will be more up to date in that part):



Edited by cavchameleon - 11/20/13 at 1:46pm
post #10342 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

Wow, thank you. That was really helpful. I am looking to add some sort of 2-channel listening in my game room. Maybe I'll order the AT and the Classic 4's and see which ones I like best for my living room and use the others in my game room. Which will be for watching sporting events, some music and the rare movie for the nephews and nieces.

 

Randall, I don't know if you've seen this or not, but here's a whole load of NHT Classics for sale in the Classifieds for a REALLY good price - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1485114/5-0-7-0-set-of-nht-classic-speakers-four-towers-three-bookshelves-two-bookshelves-three-c-center/0_80 Says he doesn't want to ship, but you never know unless you ask.


Edited by cow911 - 11/27/13 at 1:04pm
post #10343 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by cow911 View Post

Says he doesn't want to ship, but you never know unless you ask.
Or read the ten posts on the subject right under the listing you linked to.
post #10344 of 10792
Yeah, people can always change their minds I guess.... but I'm not shipping them. Thanks tho.
post #10345 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by cow911 View Post

Randall, I don't know if you've seen this or not, but here's a whole load of NHT Classics for sale in the Classifieds for a REALLY good price - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1485114/5-0-7-0-set-of-nht-classic-speakers-four-towers-three-bookshelves-two-bookshelves-three-c-center/0_80 Says he doesn't want to ship, but you never know unless you ask.

I actually live about 2 or so hours from him. I'm waiting to see if there are any BF sales and of course the wifes approval. I've never bought anything used before so I am a little worried about that. Not saying the owner abused them in any way but I like the warranty from the dealer in case something goes wrong.
post #10346 of 10792
So there is a port at the bottom of the Classic 4? I can't seem to find a picture of one. I've googled it and searched this forum but no luck.
post #10347 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

So there is a port at the bottom of the Classic 4? I can't seem to find a picture of one. I've googled it and searched this forum but no luck.


Nope. No port.

post #10348 of 10792
Really? I could of swore I read a review online about the port. Maybe a older model or possibly a totally different speaker. I've looked at so many reviews, they're all running together I guess. Thanks for the reply. So then the 4's can be placed fairly close to walls then?
post #10349 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

Really? I could of swore I read a review online about the port. Maybe a older model or possibly a totally different speaker. I've looked at so many reviews, they're all running together I guess. Thanks for the reply. So then the 4's can be placed fairly close to walls then?


I sure don't remember a port in the pair I had. Pretty sure they are a sealed design. If there was a port it would have to be on the very bottom and I'm sure there's not one there. You could get them fairly close to the back wall.

post #10350 of 10792
If I am remembering correctly, the top part is sealed but the subwoofer has a port that fires downward. BUT like I said I could be mistaken.
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