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New NHT Classic line to replace Super Audio - Page 104

post #3091 of 10233
3/21/07 at 7:52pm
Nah Allen, you've already gave him great advise.

About the only thing I would add is for him to go back to the previous page just before this one and read Jack's comments from a review I quoted about adding (or not adding) a sub to Fours.

Personally, I like John's idea of having Fours as mains and surrounds for movies. I honestly don't think that in such a set up that anyone would complain about a lack of bass, just so long as they had enough amp power that is (like a Power5).
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post #3092 of 10233
3/21/07 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemo1 View Post

Thanks everyone for your replies to my question about the U1/U2. I am hoping to listen to the U2 soon and on a side note I went by a Paradigm dealer and I was asking similar questions about the sizemic subs they sound pretty clean as well but he believes that their 1500 watt rating is a little optimistic more like in the 600 range.

Neal

Trust me on this Neal, if you were to get dual U1s (W1s) and A1 amps (you would only need 1 X1 crossover), you would be smilin'. Movies or music, doesn't matter. And if you were to get the 20 Hz mod to the X1, so much the better.

Even in a big, huge room, your ears would beg for mercy from the loudness long before the subs do.
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post #3093 of 10233
3/21/07 at 8:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldears View Post

There are a few NHT dealers in my area, none perfect (one really obnoxious). ... The first store didn't have them, but a second one did.

My local NHT dealer, who is literally right across the street from my office, no longer carries Xds on display. He did have a pair for a while, but soon sent them back claiming he couldn't sell them just because of their looks.

He just got Fours in like the week between Christmas and New Years, and he has never had the Controller and/or Power5/2, and claims that he won't carry them on display, that if anyone wants them or Xds, they have to be special ordered (with a deposit of course). At least the last time I was in there a month or so ago anyway, unless he's since changed.

In fact, the pair of Fours I now have were bought off of ebay by the original owner (by necessity of no other choice at that time since the guy here wouldn't even have them till like 6 months later), and the Fours came straight from NHT direct (drop-shipped I guess). I know, cause I bought like the very last pair of brand new, factory sealed unopened box VT3s that NHT had off of ebay straight from Jack a little over a year ago, and the very same truck driver delivered both pairs.
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post #3094 of 10233
3/21/07 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemo1 View Post

I just picked up five C3s and I am very happy with the sound.I wanted to pick up a U1/U2 but the dealer did not have any to listen too, so I wait till one comes in. In the meantime I am curious about what you guys on this thread think about the power driving the sub. The take I get from any one who talks about the U1/U2 on here is that it is definitely a very musical sub but these days allot of small size subs like the U2 are coming out with min 600 watt amps (1500 watt peak) like the Paradigm Ultra cubes. I know ratings are one picture and listening is another but 250 watts seems relatively small for two 12' drivers. I am not a bass freak ( no disrespect for those who are ) but I like clean bass my room is approx 3500 sf .

Thanks Neal

This question was also asked about 3 weeks ago (remember, I read the past month's worth of postings today!), and I asked it about 2-3 months ago. Surely someone has listened to C3s with U2s (or U1s). I'm still debating between the U2s or 2 Tannoy TS-10s, which I know are very musical but probably won't go as deep. I didn't like the C10 when I had it home (listened to it with C2s).

Peter
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post #3095 of 10233
3/21/07 at 8:35pm
I've got a pair of Threes with a U1, in a room about 12 x 15, crossed over at 80 Hz, and while I haven't directly A/Bed that set up against the Fours yet, despite them being in different rooms and better electronics with the Fours (NHT Controller/Power5 vs an Outlaw Audio RR2150 stereo receiver), I would definitely recommend the Three/U1 set up for music over the Fours.

Of course, as always, YMMV!
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post #3096 of 10233
3/21/07 at 9:04pm
Thanks very much for everyone's input on this.

I got a deal I couldn't pass up on a pair of new Classic Fours and a Three C, and went ahead and pulled the trigger this evening. I am getting an Anthem AVM50 pre/pro in a few weeks (darn backorder) and will try to integrate the HSU sub as best as possible with the Anthem's filtering capabilities. If I can't get the sub and Fours to play well together, I will consider the X2 option. Or, if the pair of Fours do meet my LFE needs, I may just dump the HSU altogether and use the proceeds to get another pair of Fours for 2 of my rear channels.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mark russ View Post

Nah Allen, you've already gave him great advise.

About the only thing I would add is for him to go back to the previous page just before this one and read Jack's comments from a review I quoted about adding (or not adding) a sub to Fours.

Personally, I like John's idea of having Fours as mains and surrounds for movies. I honestly don't think that in such a set up that anyone would complain about a lack of bass, just so long as they had enough amp power that is (like a Power5).
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post #3097 of 10233
3/21/07 at 9:16pm
Congrats on the Fours Mr. Foo!

But if I may, can I suggest a NHT Controller instead of the Anthem while you still can since it's B/O?
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post #3098 of 10233
3/21/07 at 9:54pm
Thanks.

The NHT controller, while obviously the optimal choice for working with NHT speakers, can't give me the advanced video processing that I want and I wanted an all in one A/V pre-pro. If I had held on to my DVDO Vp50, I would have strongly considered the NHT controller as an HDMI capable replacement for my Aragon Stage One. I don't think it can do 7.1 LPCM input via HDMI yet either (though I believe that this is coming as an upgrade?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark russ View Post

Congrats on the Fours Mr. Foo!

But if I may, can I suggest a NHT Controller instead of the Anthem while you still can since it's B/O?
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post #3099 of 10233
3/21/07 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Alcasid View Post

These sets of data compliment each other more than contradict. HTM presents a single plot for the Three C that averages both horizontal and vertical responses across a 30 degree window. Ultimate AV presents separate graphs for the Three C's horizontal and vertical responses, also averaged across 30 degrees. If you were to combine two Ultimate AV graphs, the result would line up with the HTM data. Ultimate AV also presents individual 45 and 60 degree measurements for the Three that is not represented in the averaged response to demonstrate the off axis lobbing that occurs at those extreme angles.

doesn't the HTM data for the classic 3 seems quite different from the sterophile data or that taken by the canadian lab for one of the other reviews? the HTM makes it seem really subdued in the top end the canadian lab the most flat across the range.
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post #3100 of 10233
3/22/07 at 7:02am
This is my first post in an AV forum so please be gentle! 3 questions ahead:

I'm out in Hong Kong and have decided to upgrade from a Phillips LX 8000 SA HTIB system. The unit has SACD capability as well as DCDI by Faroudja. (1) Can I continue to use this as my CD/DVD player? What connections do I need to look for on the back of the unit to tell whether this is possible? Real NOOB huh!

(2) I have been inspired by this thread and the reviews I have read to possibly buy a replacement speaker and reciever set. I will buy either a pair of NHT Classic 4's, 1 3C3 and a pair of C3's to be powered by a Yamaha rx v2700 or a pair of Mirage OMD 15, 1 OMD C2 and a pair of OMD 5 & Mirage S12. I heard the latter system in a great listening room presented by a very experienced and friendly technician. He works for the main importer and does not work on commission so no sales pitch just a demo. The sound experience was wonderful (maybe not surprising given my current equipment).

I heard the NHT setup today at another dealer but it was really dissapointing. The salesman said it wasn't setup properly because I asked him to disconnect the subwoofer (not necessary according to this thread?) and also substitute the M5 rears originally wired up as surrounds with the C3s. I will go back on Saturday when he will have it all set up properly for me. He does not have the Yamaha 2700 but a more expensive brand called NAIM. My question is will the Yamaha I can afford work well with the NHT setup? My problem is that I will not be able to tell after my re-audition how much of an influence the reciever used (Naim) has instead of the Yamaha.

(3) The Mirage system sounded really "airy" with a really vivid soundstage with music and in movies incredible surround sound effects and thumping bass explosions etc. Just in case the guy on Saturday doesn't manage to setup the NHT system well, does anyone have an idea how the NHT compares with the Mirage system? The NHT salesman doesn't inspire confidence in all honesty compared to the Mirage tech guy.

Thanks for your patience, I've really enjoyed reading all the posts in this thread and I think it's wonderful that NHT people chime in so frequently; great learning for me.
Cheers Roy
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post #3101 of 10233
3/22/07 at 7:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmgthatsme View Post

(1) Can I continue to use this as my CD/DVD player? What connections do I need to look for on the back of the unit to tell whether this is possible? Real NOOB huh!

Just make sure it has a digital output. If you want to play SACDs or DVD-As at full resolution, you'll need analog outs which it probably won't have.
Quote:

(2) I have been inspired by this thread and the reviews I have read to possibly buy a replacement speaker and reciever set. I will buy either a pair of NHT Classic 4's, 1 3C3 and a pair of C3's to be powered by a Yamaha rx v2700 or a pair of Mirage OMD 15, 1 OMD C2 and a pair of OMD 5 & Mirage S12. I heard the latter system in a great listening room presented by a very experienced and friendly technician. He works for the main importer and does not work on commission so no sales pitch just a demo. The sound experience was wonderful (maybe not surprising given my current equipment).

Mirages have a nice sound and are going to vary more by room and setup. When setup well, they sound great. They rely on the walls more, so spacing is critical. They embellish a bit with more added ambience, but it can be very pleasant. The thing is to listen to all kinds of music to see if the effect works for you generally or not
Quote:

I heard the NHT setup today at another dealer but it was really dissapointing. The salesman said it wasn't setup properly because I asked him to disconnect the subwoofer (not necessary according to this thread?) and also substitute the M5 rears originally wired up as surrounds with the C3s.

Keep in mind, the NHTs do have almost the opposite sound. Leaner, cleaner, technically more correct, IMO, but less colored, less embellished. Sometimes that does sound disappointing at first. Remember though to listen to the music, not the speakers!!! Then it gets more interesting. They're very clean and detailed, but with not obvious coloration except for a bit of bass heft, they can sound kinda flat on some discs, especially some surround DVDs. But they can also sound like they cost 5 times what they do at times.
Quote:

My question is will the Yamaha I can afford work well with the NHT setup? My problem is that I will not be able to tell after my re-audition how much of an influence the reciever used (Naim) has instead of the Yamaha.

It should do fine within reasonable volumes.
Quote:

(3) The Mirage system sounded really "airy" with a really vivid soundstage with music and in movies incredible surround sound effects and thumping bass explosions etc. Just in case the guy on Saturday doesn't manage to setup the NHT system well, does anyone have an idea how the NHT compares with the Mirage system? The NHT salesman doesn't inspire confidence in all honesty compared to the Mirage tech guy.

Mirage is always going to sound airy, even when they're not *supposed* to. The NHTs can sound quite airy if it's in the recording, but won't if it's not. Go by what your ears tell you, unless they'll let you take a set home for further study. I do say that NHTs are speakers that you can grow into and appreciate more and more over time, but they're a bit of culture shock at first.
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post #3102 of 10233
3/22/07 at 7:55am
Hi Roy,

I can't so much give advice, as John can above, because I've got very little experience with other equipment, but....

I've got the Yamaha 2700 paired with NHT C3/C3C, EvoU1 sub. I'm very happy with the sound and the pairing. I can add that it's very non-fatiguing. I can have them on for hours listening to music, movies, TV.... I added a pair of NHT AZ in the bar area of my bar/theater, but I've found that I just rarely activate them, preferring to just let the sound from the C3/U1 system filter over to the bar--even for multi-channel music. No knock on the AZs--I just didn't realize how good the C3s would sound from so far off-axis/away from the primary listening position.

BTW, I've got the 3s on stands as my initial plan to wall-mount fell flat. In retrospect, I probably should have checked out the L5 further or waited for the C4s--but the 4s had just come out and I was scared about availability and had my heart set on a sub anyway... No regrets though, just trying to resist the urge to add another U1 right now.

Mark





Quote:
Originally Posted by rmgthatsme View Post

This is my first post in an AV forum so please be gentle! 3 questions ahead:

I'm out in Hong Kong and have decided to upgrade from a Phillips LX 8000 SA HTIB system. The unit has SACD capability as well as DCDI by Faroudja. (1) Can I continue to use this as my CD/DVD player? What connections do I need to look for on the back of the unit to tell whether this is possible? Real NOOB huh!

(2) I have been inspired by this thread and the reviews I have read to possibly buy a replacement speaker and reciever set. I will buy either a pair of NHT Classic 4's, 1 3C3 and a pair of C3's to be powered by a Yamaha rx v2700 or a pair of Mirage OMD 15, 1 OMD C2 and a pair of OMD 5 & Mirage S12. I heard the latter system in a great listening room presented by a very experienced and friendly technician. He works for the main importer and does not work on commission so no sales pitch just a demo. The sound experience was wonderful (maybe not surprising given my current equipment).

I heard the NHT setup today at another dealer but it was really dissapointing. The salesman said it wasn't setup properly because I asked him to disconnect the subwoofer (not necessary according to this thread?) and also substitute the M5 rears originally wired up as surrounds with the C3s. I will go back on Saturday when he will have it all set up properly for me. He does not have the Yamaha 2700 but a more expensive brand called NAIM. My question is will the Yamaha I can afford work well with the NHT setup? My problem is that I will not be able to tell after my re-audition how much of an influence the reciever used (Naim) has instead of the Yamaha.

(3) The Mirage system sounded really "airy" with a really vivid soundstage with music and in movies incredible surround sound effects and thumping bass explosions etc. Just in case the guy on Saturday doesn't manage to setup the NHT system well, does anyone have an idea how the NHT compares with the Mirage system? The NHT salesman doesn't inspire confidence in all honesty compared to the Mirage tech guy.

Thanks for your patience, I've really enjoyed reading all the posts in this thread and I think it's wonderful that NHT people chime in so frequently; great learning for me.
Cheers Roy
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post #3103 of 10233
3/22/07 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MASidoc View Post

just trying to resist the urge to add another U1 right now.

It's useless to resist.
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post #3104 of 10233
3/22/07 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark russ View Post

I've got a pair of Threes with a U1, in a room about 12 x 15, crossed over at 80 Hz, and while I haven't directly A/Bed that set up against the Fours yet, despite them being in different rooms and better electronics with the Fours (NHT Controller/Power5 vs an Outlaw Audio RR2150 stereo receiver), I would definitely recommend the Three/U1 set up for music over the Fours.

Of course, as always, YMMV!

I've got Threes/U1 powered by an NAD T753. Haven't heard the Fours, but upgraded from SB3s with an SW12, and honestly I think I enjoy the upgrade in the subwoofer more than the upgrade in speakers. Acoustic suspension makes all the difference!
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post #3105 of 10233
3/22/07 at 10:05am
Roy,
Make sure the NHT C3s have been broken in (like 40 hours of playing). They sounded pretty weak to me, when new, but are awesome when broken in. One thing to try and notice when listening to music is the placement of the instruments. Close your eyes and try to picture where the music is coming from. I think you'll find the NHTs are very accurate on this, and the Mirage's (even when perfectly set up) less so.
Peter
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post #3106 of 10233
3/22/07 at 3:37pm
Originally Posted by Alimentall
iW4s are out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obanthedog View Post

I don't know! Can these wall-mounts be placed in the ceiling? (This is how the room was wired prior to drywall due to some uniqure room features).


I would think the mids/tweeters in the iW4's may be a better match with C3/C4/C3c - if you could reroute the wire to the back/side wall it would be preferable to a ceiling mount.

With the ceiling mount, the iC4 may be the best route....

just my 2 peso's... Mike
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post #3107 of 10233
3/22/07 at 3:47pm
Thanks to Mark Russ for finding a set of P5's for me... my Bedroom HT is coming together nicely!
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post #3108 of 10233
3/22/07 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pupton View Post

Originally Posted by Alimentall
iW4s are out?

I would think the mids/tweeters in the iW4's may be a better match with C3/C4/C3c - if you could reroute the wire to the back/side wall it would be preferable to a ceiling mount.

With the ceiling mount, the iC4 may be the best route....

just my 2 peso's... Mike

Thank you sir. I may have to settle for the iC3's as I cannot install iW4's at the back wall.
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post #3109 of 10233
3/22/07 at 9:37pm
Thank you for the advice on the way NHT's are supposed to sound, seems I picked two opposite ends of the listening spectrum in comparing Mirage and NHT, just my luck! The tips on what to listen out for will be very helpful for my session tomorrow. The setup seemed so out of balance in my last session, little bass and very little coming from the rear surrounds in movie sequences (don't know the playing hours on the units and I doubt the dealer does either). I think because the setup wasn't right I was forced to start to try to listen to the speakers rather than the music or movie.

On the positive side, my missus sat through the whole experience and at the end said she liked the look of the Classic 4's, she liked the Mirage OMD 15's too so I'm very fortunate as she hated the KEF EQ's and a few other speakers; didn't even want to listen because she felt there was no point in listening to something she wouldn't want in the house

Anyway I'm off tomorrow for another listen, this time they say they'll use an Onkyo reciever in the same price range as the Yamaha 2700 so hopefully I'll get a better idea.

One last question, if I can dredge up a few more bucks is it worth buying an amp say second hand to go with the Yamaha or would that be a waste of the Yamaha's potential. Can't stretch to anything even remotely like the Controller/Power5 but was wondering how I would go about getting a little more bass out of the C4's going the second hand route. If there are any decent second hand amps you can recommend and rough prices please chime in.

Thanks to you all, what a great hobby to get into!
Cheers Roy
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post #3110 of 10233
3/22/07 at 11:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obanthedog View Post

I don't know! Can these wall-mounts be placed in the ceiling? (This is how the room was wired prior to drywall due to some uniqure room features).

You can do it in ceiling. Better match, better sounding than the iC4 if it is okay for you.
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post #3111 of 10233
3/23/07 at 12:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Foo View Post

Thanks.

The NHT controller, while obviously the optimal choice for working with NHT speakers, can't give me the advanced video processing that I want and I wanted an all in one A/V pre-pro. If I had held on to my DVDO Vp50, I would have strongly considered the NHT controller as an HDMI capable replacement for my Aragon Stage One. I don't think it can do 7.1 LPCM input via HDMI yet either (though I believe that this is coming as an upgrade?).

Me personally, I'd put pure audio performance over video processing any day of the week, and twice on Sunday!
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post #3112 of 10233
3/23/07 at 12:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattwardfh View Post

Acoustic suspension makes all the difference!

AMEN brother! You're preachin' to the choir here!
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post #3113 of 10233
3/23/07 at 12:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pupton View Post

Thanks to Mark Russ for finding a set of P5's for me... my Bedroom HT is coming together nicely!

Yeah, and you got a better deal on 'em than I did on a pair I got myself a month or two ago!
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post #3114 of 10233
3/23/07 at 12:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmgthatsme View Post

... but was wondering how I would go about getting a little more bass out of the C4's going the second hand route. If there are any decent second hand amps you can recommend and rough prices please chime in.

You can get used A1s for about $200, give or take a little, all day long.

Why not get 2 of them and an X2?

Of course, used X2s are rare, I've only ever seen two for sale, one here, and one of ebay, so you might have to get that new. On the bright side though, they are a little cheaper than new A1s.
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post #3115 of 10233
3/23/07 at 12:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmgthatsme View Post

Anyway I'm off tomorrow for another listen, this time they say they'll use an Onkyo reciever in the same price range as the Yamaha 2700 so hopefully I'll get a better idea.

Another thing, and this is just my own subjective, personal opinion, but I'm sure more would prolly agree with me here than not on this, but I think Onk and Yammy definitely sound a little brighter to my ears than say HK, NAD, Cambridge Audio, Marantz, even Denon.

And the Mirages are generally a warmer sounding speaker that will mate better to brighter Yammys and Onks, whereas NHTs seem to go better with NAD, HK, etc.
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post #3116 of 10233
3/23/07 at 12:34am
Hey John, just curious, but would you have traded a full 5.2 VT3 set (VT3s VC3, VR3s) even for a full 7.1 Classic set with Fours, 3C, two pairs of Threes and a Twelve sub, especially if you still had a 7.2 VT3 set (with 2 pairs of VR3s)?
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post #3117 of 10233
3/23/07 at 6:23am
i just want to show you guys what i have done to my t5.

first up the m5:

m5

with the m5, i glued ceramic bars across front, rear and side walls and ceramic tiles all around. the shielding cup of the m5 woofer was also removed.

then the b5:

b5
b5b

the b5 was a bit harder because i was unable to remove the woofer. i had to work through the small binding post holes. with the b5, i glued 1" diameter piece of hardwood across toward the top of the cabinet walls. the top of the cabinet is probably the weaskest point of the cabinet. then i poured fiberglass resin and add ceramic tiles all around. i had to break the tiles into small pieces so they would go through the small little binding post cut out.


thanks for earlier responses.
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post #3118 of 10233
3/23/07 at 8:34am
Anybody else hear Hidley hyperventilating?

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post #3119 of 10233
3/23/07 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark russ View Post

Hey John, just curious, but would you have traded a full 5.2 VT3 set (VT3s VC3, VR3s) even for a full 7.1 Classic set with Fours, 3C, two pairs of Threes and a Twelve sub, especially if you still had a 7.2 VT3 set (with 2 pairs of VR3s)?

If I have *two* sets of VTs? Sure. Diversity! Each has its strengths.
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post #3120 of 10233
3/23/07 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark russ View Post

Me personally, I'd put pure audio performance over video processing any day of the week, and twice on Sunday!

Yes and then get the JVC RS1 that has the same Gennum processing system. Then run all the HDMI natively.
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