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New NHT Classic line to replace Super Audio - Page 320

post #9571 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjodotcom

About 2300 square feet
If you are serious, then you need some serious amps, not a receiver
post #9572 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghstudio

If you are serious, then you need some serious amps, not a receiver
Cubic feet, sorry
post #9573 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjodotcom View Post


Cubic feet, sorry

So that being the case, what should I be looking for as far as minimum power needed to fully drive these guys?
post #9574 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavchameleon View Post
But, if you can go with the Three C, it would give you better output and would match the AT's just fine.
+1... the Center Channel upgrade is money well spent!
post #9575 of 10792
Just a general question to all NHT owners, looking to transition from a Klipsch reference setup to a NHT or Revel bookshelf setup.

Does material in drivers give a difference in tonal characteristics?

Absolute Zeros use a polypropylene woofer and aluminum tweeter and the 2C center uses aluminum woofers and anodized tweeter and midrange. NHT website says the match all speakers in Classic series, but has anyone noticed a difference?
post #9576 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeLo View Post
Absolute Zeros use a polypropylene woofer and aluminum tweeter and the 2C center uses aluminum woofers and anodized tweeter and midrange. NHT website says the match all speakers in Classic series, but has anyone noticed a difference?
I've wondered about this too...
post #9577 of 10792
The whole idea that one speaker with different crossovers, drivers and cabinets is actually truly timbre matched is partly wishful thinking. Yes they do sound similar but I would easily be able to tell the different between a NHT Absolute Zero with the Classic 3, but they are close enough that it becomes a non-issue.

This is not critizing NHT but other makers are also guilty of this. Your best bet is to buy identical speakers, (easy for NHT since you can buy them individually)
post #9578 of 10792
Thanks Warpdrive! I feel the same way.

My Klipsch reference IV set-up has matching drivers, but crossovers are not identical as well as cabinet size, which I believe has an effect on tonal balance between them. They are in fact similar, but I can still tell a difference between them. Rf-52 fronts, rc-52 center, and rb-51 surrounds.
Not picking on NHT either, its just one of the brands I was looking into getting. 5 identical speakers was my original plan, but reading some posts on the NHT thread suggested that the 3-way centers were actually better at dialogue. True?
Just curious if the Absolute zero set-up would be an "upgrade" to the klipsch reference set-up? Looking for more quality than quantity.
Anyone gone down this path that could share some experiences? Regrets?
post #9579 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

The whole idea that one speaker with different crossovers, drivers and cabinets is actually truly timbre matched is partly wishful thinking. Yes they do sound similar but I would easily be able to tell the different between a NHT Absolute Zero with the Classic 3, but they are close enough that it becomes a non-issue.

This is not critizing NHT but other makers are also guilty of this. Your best bet is to buy identical speakers, (easy for NHT since you can buy them individually)

Thanks warpdrive.

And you're right, this isn't a knock on NHT... Hell, my Energy RC-10 and RC-LCR have a slightly different timbre as well, despite using the same tweeter and woofers.

The 2" inverted dome midranges of the LCR impart their own characteristics on the sound that differ from the RC-10. Still, I find that they do blend well enough as a front stage.

So I would never expect the AZ and 2C to have an identical timbre... More so asking if they manage to blend well... despite their driver differences.
post #9580 of 10792
I want to add... based on the Ultimate AV Mag showing the off axis performance of the 3C, and I'd expect the 2C to show similar results here as well... The 3C showed a pretty severe suckout around 700-800Hz at 45 degrees and greater. So beyond 30 degrees off axis, despite being a 3-way design, the performance begins to suffer from typical lobing effects.

I'd speculate that a singe AZ (vertically oriented of course) would actually perform better off axis (>30 degrees) than the 2C. Sound and Vision mag commented on the stellar off axis performance of the AT and AZ, showing only the "expected" treble roll-off.

So if far off axis performance is a concern... then AZ might be the better option... provided you can place it upright.

Of course, that's just one factor... and the 2C might be clearer for dialogue, and is probably a bit better in terms of dynamic ability...
post #9581 of 10792
Looks like Stehen Mejias will be writing about the SZ 2.0. (Was NHT smart enough to send the sub with it?)


post #9582 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianWilson View Post

Looks like Stehen Mejias will be writing about the SZ 2.0. (Was NHT smart enough to send the sub with it?)

I hope they did. I think it's a really hard speaker to listen to without a sub (at least the first SZ was). But I've gotten the impression in the past that SM doesn't really like subs.

I hope RJR does a follow-up, at least.
post #9583 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattwardfh View Post

I hope they did. I think it's a really hard speaker to listen to without a sub (at least the first SZ was). But I've gotten the impression in the past that SM doesn't really like subs.

I hope RJR does a follow-up, at least.

And two of NHT's worst press moments occurred when Stereo Review did group reviews of 5-6 speakers that included the SZ and then the SB1, both getting panned badly compared to the others that actually had bass.
post #9584 of 10792
post #9585 of 10792
I'm new to NHT speakers, but I'm trading for some used Classic Fours and a Classic Three Center. I've found a used Classic 10 subwoofer (NHT N-10B) for about $100. I couldn't find much information on this model, and NHT told me that it was discontinued a year or so ago. They strongly recommended the current models (which look like cubes, rather than having the curved top and oblong shape of the Classic 10). The current 10" sells for the same price as the older Classic 10 on Amazon (about $500). It looks like the Classic 10 is ported, and quite a bit larger. I think the new ones are acoustic suspension. I'm very tempted to get the used Classic 10 because of the low price, but I don't want to waste money on something that won't be a good match with my Classic Fours, or that has other problems.

I've spent hours going through this very long thread looking for information on the Classic 10, but didn't find much (except some indication that is isn't great), but I might have missed the discussion (it would take me a week to read though everything). I'm sure the new ones are better, but are they worth several times the cost?

Any advice?

Thanks

Doug
post #9586 of 10792
As I mentioned in my previous question about the subwoofer, I'm trading soon for some NHT Classic Four front speakers, and a Classic 3C (center). I've found someone else who is selling a pair of Classic 2's, and I'm thinking of getting them as my rear/surround speakers. I'd like to get Classic 3's for this purpose, but new ones are way over my current budget, and I can probably get a good deal on the used 2s. I know the drivers are different from the 3s and 4s, but I understand that they still match up pretty well with them in this application. NHT even recommended the smaller Zero series for this purpose. What do you think? I'm not going to be able to audition any of these in advance, but based on the reviews I've read and their retail cost, I think I'll be making a significant upgrade to my current 20-year-old speaker system for a pretty minimal investment.
post #9587 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougb59 View Post

I'm new to NHT speakers, but I'm trading for some used Classic Fours and a Classic Three Center. I've found a used Classic 10 subwoofer (NHT N-10B) for about $100. I couldn't find much information on this model, and NHT told me that it was discontinued a year or so ago. They strongly recommended the current models (which look like cubes, rather than having the curved top and oblong shape of the Classic 10). The current 10" sells for the same price as the older Classic 10 on Amazon (about $500). It looks like the Classic 10 is ported, and quite a bit larger. I think the new ones are acoustic suspension. I'm very tempted to get the used Classic 10 because of the low price, but I don't want to waste money on something that won't be a good match with my Classic Fours, or that has other problems.

Given that the Fours already have two 10" subs, the Classic Ten isn't going to add much. You could argue that maybe it's worthwhile if you're running the Fours as large speakers and just using the Ten to enhance your center and rear channels, but I think the Fours could do a decent job of that same task. Even a 12" sub might not add much.

My advice would be to get the Fours and see how you think they do on their own, then shop for the subwoofer if you still think you need it. I wouldn't go less than 12" on the sub, though.

I used to have the SW12, which was a fairly similar design to the Classic Twelve. I was never particularly thrilled with it, and I was using it to augment bookshelf, not tower speakers.
post #9588 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougb59 View Post

As I mentioned in my previous question about the subwoofer, I'm trading soon for some NHT Classic Four front speakers, and a Classic 3C (center). I've found someone else who is selling a pair of Classic 2's, and I'm thinking of getting them as my rear/surround speakers. I'd like to get Classic 3's for this purpose, but new ones are way over my current budget, and I can probably get a good deal on the used 2s. I know the drivers are different from the 3s and 4s, but I understand that they still match up pretty well with them in this application. NHT even recommended the smaller Zero series for this purpose. What do you think? I'm not going to be able to audition any of these in advance, but based on the reviews I've read and their retail cost, I think I'll be making a significant upgrade to my current 20-year-old speaker system for a pretty minimal investment.

Twos should be fine. I used AZs as surrounds with Threes for quite some time. The match isn't perfect but for home theater I think it's fine. If you're going to do a lot of multichannel music you might find the match is problematic. But I never wished I had ponied up for Twos or Threes.

I think if you have a system with Fours/3C/Twos, you'll be quite happy.
post #9589 of 10792
Mattwardfh,

Thank you for the helpful replies. It sounds like the Classic Twos will be good surrounds for me. I subsequently found out that the same person has some smaller Classic Absolute Zeros available as well, so I'm thinking about them as front high speakers. Front highs have never been a priority for me, even though my relatively new Onkyo TX-NR3008 receiver is set up to drive them, but if I can add them at relatively little cost, I might go ahead and do it. I'm assuming that I should use the larger Classic Twos as my surrounds (not the other way around) - correct? I haven't found a lot of information about front highs, but I gather that they only produce some ambient sounds extracted from the main channels, and therefore don't need to be full-range speakers that are closely matched to the main front speakers - is that correct?

I'm still debating about the Classic Ten subwoofer. I appreciate your comments, and agree that it probably won't add a lot more bass to what the Classic Fours will already provide. I'm just tempted because I can probably get the used one for under $100, so it wouldn't cost me much to add it. I'm inclined to get it if it will just add a bit more low-end volume to what the Fours will provide (i.e. reinforce them). It seems like an additional 10" cone is going to move that much more air - but maybe I'm over-simplifying this. I wouldn't even be thinking about spending $500-$600 for a subwoofer right now, but for a sub-$100 investment, it won't need to add much to be worth it. However, if it will degrade the sound (compared with just using the Fours), or will significantly complicate setup and adjustment of my system, then I'll skip it. I'm hoping the Audyssey XT32 in my receiver will be able to balance everything for me.

Thanks again.

Doug
post #9590 of 10792
I agree with mattwordfh, on both accounts. As far at the Two's for surround duty, it'll work out fine. I do listen to a lot of multichannel music, so did finally get the Threes at the time as they are a better blend for that purpose, but did not really notice a difference with movies (I'm now using the Twos for Wides and Zeros for Heights).

As for the sub, what he said also... the 10 will not really help with the Fours. You may be able to add a few db's, but it won't go any lower. Save up and buy a bigger, more powerful sub that can get that last 1-2 octaves correctly, that will make a difference. When you do, experiment in your room what XO to use. In mine, the best blend so far is to XO the Fours at 60HZ to the sub.
post #9591 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougb59 View Post

Mattwardfh,

Thank you for the helpful replies. It sounds like the Classic Twos will be good surrounds for me. I subsequently found out that the same person has some smaller Classic Absolute Zeros available as well, so I'm thinking about them as front high speakers. Front highs have never been a priority for me, even though my relatively new Onkyo TX-NR3008 receiver is set up to drive them, but if I can add them at relatively little cost, I might go ahead and do it. I'm assuming that I should use the larger Classic Twos as my surrounds (not the other way around) - correct? I haven't found a lot of information about front highs, but I gather that they only produce some ambient sounds extracted from the main channels, and therefore don't need to be full-range speakers that are closely matched to the main front speakers - is that correct?

I'm still debating about the Classic Ten subwoofer. I appreciate your comments, and agree that it probably won't add a lot more bass to what the Classic Fours will already provide. I'm just tempted because I can probably get the used one for under $100, so it wouldn't cost me much to add it. I'm inclined to get it if it will just add a bit more low-end volume to what the Fours will provide (i.e. reinforce them). It seems like an additional 10" cone is going to move that much more air - but maybe I'm over-simplifying this. I wouldn't even be thinking about spending $500-$600 for a subwoofer right now, but for a sub-$100 investment, it won't need to add much to be worth it. However, if it will degrade the sound (compared with just using the Fours), or will significantly complicate setup and adjustment of my system, then I'll skip it. I'm hoping the Audyssey XD32 in my receiver will be able to balance everything for me.

Thanks again.

Doug

Doug,

It's actually more advantageous to go with the Wides first, then the Heights. Try it out though. Yes, Audyssey XT32 will balance everything out just fine.
post #9592 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougb59 View Post

Mattwardfh,

Thank you for the helpful replies. It sounds like the Classic Twos will be good surrounds for me. I subsequently found out that the same person has some smaller Classic Absolute Zeros available as well, so I'm thinking about them as front high speakers. Front highs have never been a priority for me, even though my relatively new Onkyo TX-NR3008 receiver is set up to drive them, but if I can add them at relatively little cost, I might go ahead and do it. I'm assuming that I should use the larger Classic Twos as my surrounds (not the other way around) - correct? I haven't found a lot of information about front highs, but I gather that they only produce some ambient sounds extracted from the main channels, and therefore don't need to be full-range speakers that are closely matched to the main front speakers - is that correct?

I'm still debating about the Classic Ten subwoofer. I appreciate your comments, and agree that it probably won't add a lot more bass to what the Classic Fours will already provide. I'm just tempted because I can probably get the used one for under $100, so it wouldn't cost me much to add it. I'm inclined to get it if it will just add a bit more low-end volume to what the Fours will provide (i.e. reinforce them). It seems like an additional 10" cone is going to move that much more air - but maybe I'm over-simplifying this. I wouldn't even be thinking about spending $500-$600 for a subwoofer right now, but for a sub-$100 investment, it won't need to add much to be worth it. However, if it will degrade the sound (compared with just using the Fours), or will significantly complicate setup and adjustment of my system, then I'll skip it. I'm hoping the Audyssey XT32 in my receiver will be able to balance everything for me.

Thanks again.

Doug

It sounds like you have reasonable expectations for the sub. It may be useful to take over bass for the non L/R channels. Since you know what you're getting into, $100 is probably worth a shot.
post #9593 of 10792
That sure is a cheap price for the sub, though. The Ten and a nice bookshelf speaker (I'm assuming you'd seek another great price deal) that goes down to 50-60 HZ sure could make for a nice 2nd system.
post #9594 of 10792
Get the sub and the Zeros for a bedroom / office / kitchen system.
post #9595 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

Get the sub and the Zeros for a bedroom / office / kitchen system.

Great idea! Especially at those prices!
post #9596 of 10792
The new zero's and matching sub are featured in a review in the newest Home Theater Magazine. The measurements show virtually perfect integration with the sub. The zero's themselves measure about +3/-3, so they are not as flat as the Classics.

Brian
post #9597 of 10792
Thanks for all the input and good suggestions. I was ready to buy the Classic 10 subwoofer, but it had already sold. I still may have a chance a the Zeros and/or the Twos.

Thanks

Doug
post #9598 of 10792
Seems like Mark Fleischmann liked the SZ system better than the AZ system. I gather he found the SZs more forgiving and ingratiating. The SZ measurements sure looked inferior to the AZ's , though- there's a good-sized boost at 1KZ and some peaks and valleys. The sub had a nice looking curve- very flat and uniform from 40-110 HZ, flatter than that of the Classic 10.

He mentioned the Classic 10 sub being localized with the 100HZ crossover and the AZs, something he didn't mention with the SZ-Super 8 or even a cube system like the Cambridge Minx or a little one from Polk. It has seemed like he has had better things to say about all of the small budget systems he's reviewed after the AZ system. (One thing that has bugged me was that the HT and S&V reviews of the AZ and AT systems included the Tens- surely NHT knew that the new ones were coming soon and could have urged both mags to wait a couple of months.)

Cambridge Minx:



AZ-Ten:



Boston Acoustics A25 system ($1200, which MF really seemed to love):

post #9599 of 10792
I have a pair of AT mains along with a 2C center and super one surrounds. I am in the market for a new receiver and am curious, how many watts per channel should I be looking for to drive this setup? Don't need anything too overpowering for the time being, but don't want to sell the speakers short either. Thanks!
post #9600 of 10792
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjodotcom View Post

I have a pair of AT mains along with a 2C center and super one surrounds. I am in the market for a new receiver and am curious, how many watts per channel should I be looking for to drive this setup? Don't need anything too overpowering for the time being, but don't want to sell the speakers short either. Thanks!

I should clarify I am running a 7.1 setup. I am guessing the answer is around 90 watts/channel, but would appreciate some assistance!
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