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Crash - Page 2  

post #31 of 442
Quote:
To everyone that watched Crash and though it was about racism: You need to watch the movie again you didn't get it.
Not gonna happen, it's not worth it. I wanted to shut it off within the first 15 minutes but my wife wanted to see what was going to happen. The filmmakers were lucky I sat through it once.

If the film isn't "about" racism then it's certainly fixated on it to the point where the true meaning of the film is obscured by the outrageously over-the-top situations involving racism that occur with EVERY character.

Cheadle's line at the beginning of the film was certainly intriguing, and could have made for a great film thesis. The problem was that the line was easily forgettable when every character is immediately thrown in to some kind of situation where they're either the victim or the perpetrator of racism (and sometimes both).

Lonwolf615's analysis of the film is interesting, but I didn't see that in the film at all. Someone should take that idea and run with it though, they could certainly not do worse than "Crash" did with it.

BTW, this is what Netflix has as their description (I believe this comes from the back of the box):

Quote:
A 36-hour period in the diverse metropolis of post-Sept. 11 Los Angeles is the theme of this unflinching drama that challenges audiences to confront their prejudices.
If it's not about racism then what prejudices are we supposed to be confronting?

Also not really sure what Sept 11th has to do with anything in LA. From what I've seen over the last few years most people here think that what happened on 9/11/01 was a world away and don't really connect with it in any meaningful way.
post #32 of 442
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Originally Posted by am_pcguy
To everyone that watched Crash and though it was about racism:

You need to watch the movie again you didn't get it.
I think it is clearly about racism – in your face racism. Even the writer and director said it was about racism, so I don’t see how you can ignore that fact. The director said he wanted people walking out of the theater having conflicting ideas and talking in order to resolve issues we have in our lives.

While I think the core of the movie is about racism, I found many sub texts as well. Adding to what lonwolf615 said; I think we are more comfortable with ourselves when we stereotype people. Stereotyping people gives us a way to ‘know’ the person without really getting to ‘know’ the person. It allows us to stay at a distance, have pre-judgments, and feel safe about something we ultimately fear, simply because we don’t understand what has come into our personal reality. Unfortunately, every race does it. One screams how they are being discriminated against, while at the same time, being just as racist against another. Sometimes being so divisive as to discriminate against people of the same race based on ones skin tone.

Another point the movie dealt with is how we see ourselves as being above discrimination, and criticize those that are. And then when presented with a situation, we find ourselves falling victim to those same mental processes due to fear, and uncover the dark side of ourselves we so adamantly tell others, but more importantly, ourselves, we don’t posses.

Again, adding to lonwolf615s point; when things are said and done, we are of the realization that the person we are so discriminating against is just as vulnerable, just as human, and seeking acceptance just as much as we are. When the chips are down, we move beyond race and differences, and see human beings screaming out for help, and if you aren’t emotionally vacant, you respond - Katrina being a current example.

As you can tell, I thought the movie was excellent and extremely thought provoking. I could add more points, but I’ve rambled enough. I also thought the music was perfect; dark and ominous - the acting was top notch as well.
post #33 of 442
Saving Private Ryan isn't about blood and gore but it is a pretty big part of the movie and some may even say it was over the top.

Spoilers?:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I came away with the impression the movie was about Karma. There is a frank look at race relations in the movie. It wasn't just race though it was about human relationships. Sandra Bullocks character realizing that none of her friends cared about her at all. Race and stereotypes were pronounced to show thought processes driving each character. Race was not the main point of the movie just a vehicle to get you more involved with each character.


I thought it was a great movie. My wife said she is glad she saw it because it was unique, even if it wasn't her favorite.

I was going to say just try to look past the racial overtones, but you really can't they are such and integral part of the film. They show how selfish and impersonal we (human beings) are or can be.

If you still don't like the movie that's fine too.

Peace.
post #34 of 442
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Originally Posted by Aliens
As you can tell, I thought the movie was excellent and extremely thought provoking. I could add more points, but I’ve rambled enough. I also thought the music was perfect; dark and ominous - the acting was top notch as well.
I liked the music too, for me the soundtrack of a movie can sometimes tip the scales on whether I like the movie or not. While this movie wouldn't have had any less impact without a soundtrack, having the music it did just adds to my overall interest in the movie. I thought the acting was spot on, entirely everyday believable which makes the ideas, thoughts and questions put forth become the focus rather than buried by over the top acting.

Once in awhile a movie comes along that stands entirely on it's subject matter or writing and this is one of those movies. This movie could have been made without a single "name" actor and not have lost any of it's impact. In an admittedly silly comparison, Crash doesn't even fit into the same artistic realm as say a Spiderman movie for me, are these really the same art form..? Spiderman type movies are fun, but it's movies like Crash that I enjoy the most. In fact "enjoy" is probably not the right word, maybe "effect' or "provoke" would be better descriptors.

I'm having trouble finding the words, but suffice it to say, this has easily become one of those movies that will stay with me a long time and that I plan to purchase and watch again and encourage others to watch as well.
post #35 of 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by am_pcguy
To everyone that watched Crash and though it was about racism:

You need to watch the movie again you didn't get it.
To say Crash wasn't about racism, is to totally ignore 90% of the film. Of course Crash was about racism. But the bigger question is why? What point were the filmakers trying to convey? And that's the true debate of this film.
post #36 of 442
Wow,did this thread ever take off! Rutgar you hit the nail on the head I think.Its the why that made me think about this film afterwards.One could say the point is that every one has prejudices,hence the racist asians and blacks.But I kept thinking about the way more intimate relations were portrayed in the film-Cheadle and his lover,Cheadle's relationship with his mother and brother,the way the black couple interacted..and maybe the most telling,a character never seen: the "best friend" of SB.She knows her role: a "best friend" is someone you go shopping with and discuss decorating and men with.Its not picking your friend up off the floor when she falls down the stairs...Its not racism thats the problem,its the fact that we don't see anybody as they really are.And to me what the film is about is setting up the epiphany each character experiences in a moment of crisis,when they realize that truth.
post #37 of 442
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Originally Posted by keenan
Once in awhile a movie comes along that stands entirely on it's subject matter or writing and this is one of those movies. This movie could have been made without a single "name" actor and not have lost any of it's impact. In an admittedly silly comparison, Crash doesn't even fit into the same artistic realm as say a Spiderman movie for me, are these really the same art form..? Spiderman type movies are fun, but it's movies like Crash that I enjoy the most. In fact "enjoy" is probably not the right word, maybe "effect' or "provoke" would be better descriptors.
You are dead-on with this. It is exactly what Hollywood doesn’t often make, and what so many on this board ask Hollywood to do. They are tired of the cookie-cutter movies, too many sequels and little originality. Yet, when one like this comes out, people still find fault. I’m not saying everyone has to like this movie - that is an impossibility; my point is Hollywood can’t win regardless of what they do, because it is impossible to please everyone. But you can be sure tomorrow we’ll hear how Hollywood sucks and how stale they are.


Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan
I'm having trouble finding the words, but suffice it to say, this has easily become one of those movies that will stay with me a long time and that I plan to purchase and watch again and encourage others to watch as well.
I agree, keenan. For me this was a very emotional, and at times, uncomfortable movie. The emotions ran from anger to happiness. Just seeing the light of understanding turn on in the expressions of the actors gave me a great feeling. If we could translate that into real life we would grow leaps and bounds as a society.
post #38 of 442
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Originally Posted by Aliens
I agree, keenan. For me this was a very emotional, and at times, uncomfortable movie. The emotions ran from anger to happiness. Just seeing the light of understanding turn on in the expressions of the actors gave me a great feeling. If we could translate that into real life we would grow leaps and bounds as a society.

I totally agree about anger to happiness emotions. For example:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

We all absolutely HATE the cop who took advantage of the TV producer's wife, thinking what a low-life racist bastard he is. And then in a later scene, giving the same cop complete and total respect when he risks his own life, above and beyond, to save the life of the same woman (knowing exactly who she is).
post #39 of 442
For me, one of the whys would be a self-evaluation of who and what you are and how you came to be. Is the way you view and live life a true expression of what you are, or have you manifested what was instilled and taught to you as a child, and carried those thoughts and ideas into adulthood without every truly questioning and understanding whether those thoughts and ideas are truly your own, to say nothing of whether there is any validity in them to begin with? It is a psychological breakdown of your way of thinking and rebuilding it into what you truly are, not what someone has told you who and what you should be and how you should view the world around you. I think the why is going to be different for everyone and it all goes to your experience in life. I don’t think there is any one why in the movie.
post #40 of 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliens
For me one of the whys would be a self-evaluation of who and what you are and how you came to be. Is the way you view and live life a true expression of what you are, or have you manifested what was instilled and taught to you as a child, and carried those thoughts and ideas into adulthood without every truly questioning and understanding whether those thoughts and ideas are truly your own, to say nothing of whether there is any validity in them to begin with? It is a psychological breakdown of your way of thinking and rebuilding it into what you truly are, not what someone has told you who and what you should be and how you should view the world around you. I think the why is going to be different for everyone and it all goes to your experience in life. I don’t think there is any one why in the movie.
Yes. I think they did a brilliant job in this film. They made it open-ended enough to make you think, and come to your own conclusions, yet gave you enough information to keep us (the audience) from going, "WTF was that all about!" On top of that, they kept it entertaining, from beginning to end.
post #41 of 442
And of course the irony is that some merely put a label on the film to avoid thinking about it,and then dismiss it.Thereby making the film's point all over again..
Yeah,it could have been better,yeah'parts of it feel contrived...but at least it tried.And this thread is showing it succeeded in provking thought,at least for some of us.
post #42 of 442
Just finished it - decent enjoyable film - nothing more.

I didn't expect to like it based on the comments here. But I really liked it at first and after the first hour starting thinking about the makeup of this board, very few "minorities", very few who have really experienced racism, many who probably saw themselves and didn't like what they saw, etc.etc. But, as the film went on into a sentimental fantasy, with some silliness, I began to see what some others here saw. Not a bad way to pass an evening but not a film, for me, to see again.
post #43 of 442
Thanks for illustrating my point.:)
post #44 of 442
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And of course the irony is that some merely put a label on the film to avoid thinking about it,and then dismiss it. Thereby making the film's point all over again..
Not sure who you are talking about there (perhaps me? If so you're dead wrong). Nor am I sure what the point of the film was that is being made all over again. I still think the film was bad but I don't want to harp on that. Normally I will post an opinion about a film and then back off just so that the info is out there for people to read both sides in case they're considering a purchase of the DVD. I don't enjoy getting in to all the "it sucks", "no it doesn't" arguments that go on in this forum lately. In this case, this thread has remained very interesting to read with very little name-calling. I think that intelligent people can disagree about the merits of a film, let's keep it cordial, shall we?

Quote:
after the first hour starting thinking about the makeup of this board, very few "minorities", very few who have really experienced racism
In my life I have been a minority in many places and have experienced racism directed at me. Sometimes in a very blatant way. Though the majority of the time it is much more subtle, which this film does not portray well.

Where I think this movie misses the boat is the issue of cultures. The issues of culturalism and racism are often confused.
post #45 of 442
Just another comment, while reflecting on this movie a day or so after watching it, I'm struck by how complex the characters were, even with the large cast, almost every character has substance, even Danza's few minutes on screen had depth or that you got the feeling that here is a character that could have played a much larger role given a different script or plot line. In fact, every one of the majors could have carried a whole story by themselves. I think this is telling in that it reflects society as a whole, we are all much, much more complex than the usual protrayals we see from Hollywood.

While I don't want to start a comparison debate, I liked this movie far more than I did Million Dollar Baby which was universally acclaimed...granted, it's two different types of movies, but by saying such, I hope I've given folks an insight on what I like in movies...not that anyone asked, but for some reason I felt compelled to say that.. :p
post #46 of 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan
Just another comment, while reflecting on this movie a day or so after watching it, I'm struck by how complex the characters were, even with the large cast, almost every character has substance, even Danza's few minutes on screen had depth or that you got the feeling that here is a character that could have played a much larger role given a different script or plot line. In fact, every one of the majors could have carried a whole story by themselves. I think this is telling in that it reflects society as a whole, we are all much, much more complex than the usual protrayals we see from Hollywood.

While I don't want to start a comparison debate, I liked this movie far more than I did Million Dollar Baby which was universally acclaimed...granted, it's two different types of movies, but by saying such, I hope I've given folks an insight on what I like in movies...not that anyone asked, but for some reason I felt compelled to say that.. :p

You're right. They're totally two different movies.
post #47 of 442
i thougth the sound track was absolutely awesome!!!

this is one great story.
characters are adequately developed for a "point" movie. only problem here is it is uncomfortably deep. crash illustrates how life ties people together within a community. some prejudice is deserved, some not. from prejudice arises great tension that destroys community. everyone within the community at all echelons is victimized by the seething prejudice. the forced performances especially the language between the two carjacking thugs is very intentional. i'm sure the director demanded this to make the points blantant.

oh yeah, to me reference video!
post #48 of 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar
To say Crash wasn't about racism, is to totally ignore 90% of the film. Of course Crash was about racism. But the bigger question is why? What point were the filmakers trying to convey? And that's the true debate of this film.
Maybe I should have said "...only about racism", most of the first posts were really only touching on that aspect of the film.

Why was race used? Here is my guess:
1. Using such strong language, and harsh viewpoints gave the characters depth almost instantly. You know how they are thinking and what drives them.

2. Racism and stereotypes are MUCH bigger issues than most people are willing to admit even to themselves. The film makers wanted to shine a light on this fact.

Read the spoiler in my other post to see what I think the movie was really "about".

Peace.
post #49 of 442
Great discussion and thanks to all who have shared their thoughts. I hadn't heard much about it and probably would have passed, but because of this discussion, I'll rent it.
post #50 of 442
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Originally Posted by am_pcguy
2. Racism and stereotypes are MUCH bigger issues than most people are willing to admit even to themselves. The film makers wanted to shine a light on this fact.


Peace.
I think that's true. I wouldn't go as far as saying that people are "born" racist. But I do believe that we have an inborn, acute awareness of people that are different from ourselves. But what I think the movie is trying to show, is that we can rise above that natural inclination. And when we don't, the results can sometimes lead to dire consequences. Just like it's normal for a married man to have the hots for the "major babe" than lives next door to him. But if the man has true character, he's able to ignore those urges, and remain faithful to his wife. The filmmakers chose racism as their vehical. But it would have worked just as well with adultry. Well... maybe not just as well. Racism is a much more emotionally charged issue, than adultry.
post #51 of 442
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1. Using such strong language, and harsh viewpoints gave the characters depth almost instantly. You know how they are thinking and what drives them.
Personally I don't think that gave them depth, I think that made them stereotypical.
post #52 of 442
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Originally Posted by keenan
Cheadle's character said it all in the very first scene, we've become so insulated and isolated from our fellow man that our true humanity is reduced to those brief moments when we are forced to react without forethought. It's at those moments that one truly sees what they are "made of".
Exactly.

And this is seen most dramatically when the cop (Matt Dillon's character) rescues the "victim" of his previous sexual assault from a burning overturned car.

I agree with some of the comparison's to Magnolia, but I thought this was much, much better (I hate Magnolia).

I must disagree with those who found the performances lacking. I thought they were all very good and natural, not at all overacted or forced.

Obviously there were a LOT of coincidences going on, but this was something that was not hard to forgive in order to make the movie work.....which it did.
post #53 of 442
Great movie - excellent acting and story - I saw it 3 times in the theater. My wife and I both enjoyed it a lot.
post #54 of 442
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Originally Posted by Rutgar
Racism is a much more emotionally charged issue, than adultry.
Wow! Do I know someone who would disagree with that!!
post #55 of 442
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Originally Posted by Psych1
Wow! Do I know someone who would disagree with that!!
Every married couple in the world for instance..?

I think he means that racism tends to burrow deeper into one's psyche and once there doesn't appear to want to leave and evokes sometimes radical and violent actions. Racism is a social disease. Adultery, while it too can can stir up a lot of emotion, tends to be more of a personal emotional condition that is focused on one individual.
post #56 of 442
Joekun: My post wasn't aimed at you,or anyone else for that matter.Sorry you took offense,and I do appreciate your points.We're just seeing it differently,is all.If I read you right you think the film is about racism and does a poor job of portraying it realistically. So you dismiss the film as not very good,which is understandable.But the fact remains that the film had an emotional impact on me,and in trying to figure out why I came to the conclusion its not really about racism at all.Its about human relationships,both casual and intimate, and how our perception of another individual as a type or role has the benifit of making everyday life more manageable,but also prevents any real human contact.And for me,thats what makes the film special.
post #57 of 442
joekun,relax.My post wasn't aimed at you.Or anybody else for that matter.
Aliens and Keenan:thank you.This film did pack quite a wallop for me,and I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one.
post #58 of 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan
Every married couple in the world for instance..?

I think he means that racism tends to burrow deeper into one's psyche and once there doesn't appear to want to leave and evokes sometimes radical and violent actions. Racism is a social disease. Adultery, while it too can can stir up a lot of emotion, tends to be more of a personal emotional condition that is focused on one individual.
Exactly, thank you.
post #59 of 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan
Every married couple in the world for instance..?

I think he means that racism tends to burrow deeper into one's psyche and once there doesn't appear to want to leave and evokes sometimes radical and violent actions. Racism is a social disease. Adultery, while it too can can stir up a lot of emotion, tends to be more of a personal emotional condition that is focused on one individual.
Wonderful analysis. I agree.
post #60 of 442
This movie was fantastic. It was not about racism but rather perceptions, stereotypes, communication barriers and mis-reading each other. Another excellent film from the producer of Million Dollar Baby - definately on my must have list.
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