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'Supernatural' on The CW HD (& syndicated on TNT HD) - Page 66

post #1951 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

But, that backdoor into hell seems like a problem. In basically all of eternity, it seems like someone in purgatory would have found that by now, and it wasn't guarded on the hell-side... I'm thinking something like leviathan ought to be able to get into hell and have an easy out from hell afterwards. Also, remembering the whole story a couple of years ago about Crowley trying to find purgatory... and all along he basically had a shortcut in there all along!

Even if he didn't know about the shortcut all he had to do was ask Ajay. Apparently it's now common knowledge that reapers sneak souls in and out.

Crowley: "How do you get my souls in and out of Hell Ajay?"
Ajay: " I'm not telli ... oh wait you are Crowley. Sure, I'll tell you anything you want. Don't hurt me! Door to hell? Let me give you a tour."
post #1952 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

But, that backdoor into hell seems like a problem. In basically all of eternity, it seems like someone in purgatory would have found that by now, and it wasn't guarded on the hell-side... I'm thinking something like leviathan ought to be able to get into hell and have an easy out from hell afterwards. Also, remembering the whole story a couple of years ago about Crowley trying to find purgatory... and all along he basically had a shortcut in there all along!
Good points.
I guess some mysteries remain....wink.gif

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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

I wish the show would forget the Trials nonsense and go back to the golem and the Letters.
I agree....except this season is too far vested in this "trial" storyline.

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What happened to being invisible to mortals until death, acting somber and spooky and dressed in a black suit? Now they just hang around on corners as taxi drivers?
Visible, but not recognizable???

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The show forgot the time difference in Hell too.
Huh?
I thought Hell was on HUST (Hades Underworld Standard Time).

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And Bobby. Back again. I was expecting him to be Crowley in disguise and to be honest I don't know if the fact it wasn't was better or worse. Every time Bobby reappears it just makes his original death less and less powerful and significant. Like any other bit-part character on the show.
NO ONE ever truly dies on Supernatural...wink.gif
post #1953 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Visible, but not recognizable???

Which makes them as boring as any other monster on Supernatural now. Remember when they only moved brought the spirit plane? Now there are apparently so few deaths in the world that some can spend the day hanging around in their bum wardrobe while their suits are at the dry cleaners. At least on Dead Like Me they had entertaining day jobs. And Death apparently doesn't care they moonlight either!
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NO ONE ever truly dies on Supernatural...wink.gif

At this point I think we can start to say that no one dies on Supernatural at all.
post #1954 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Which makes them as boring as any other monster on Supernatural now. Remember when they only moved brought the spirit plane? Now there are apparently so few deaths in the world that some can spend the day hanging around in their bum wardrobe while their suits are at the dry cleaners. At least on Dead Like Me they had entertaining day jobs. And Death apparently doesn't care they moonlight either!
At this point I think we can start to say that no one dies on Supernatural at all.
Can't disagree.wink.gif
post #1955 of 2202
One other thing which I thought was unintentionally amusing this episode was the amount of heads flying off. Everyone was decapitating with ease! With one hand! It's like all the bad guys suddenly have really weak necks.

Where this really stood out was when when Dean killed chopped Benny. Instead of having Benny kneel and Dean beheading him from behind for more force and to make it less horrible for Benny, Dean just swiped him from the front like popping a champagne cork!
post #1956 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

One other thing which I thought was unintentionally amusing this episode was the amount of heads flying off. Everyone was decapitating with ease! With one hand! It's like all the bad guys suddenly have really weak necks.

Where this really stood out was when when Dean killed chopped Benny. Instead of having Benny kneel and Dean beheading him from behind for more force and to make it less horrible for Benny, Dean just swiped him from the front like popping a champagne cork!
I think it is safe to say, at this point in time, there are probably no better whackers than Dean and Sam.
With their experience, it isn't likely anyone is more skilled.
post #1957 of 2202
Disappointing episode. Reapers are suddenly afraid of Crowley? HUH? They said they are above everyone else, and will even reap God in the end. Flies in the face of what they have established in the show.

Crowley story line needs to end, NOW! SOOOO played out. They need to go back to the bunker, discover new things, and focus on the letters. It was sooo much more interesting then.

So did Kevin imagine Crowley? Because when Sam and Dean came in the windows were no longer broken.
post #1958 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

Disappointing episode. Reapers are suddenly afraid of Crowley? HUH? They said they are above everyone else, and will even reap God in the end. Flies in the face of what they have established in the show.
Crowley has slowly, but surely, been gathering power.

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Crowley story line needs to end, NOW! SOOOO played out.
As things stand right now, it really can't...
The earliest it could happen would be if the boys can close Hell forever.

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They need to go back to the bunker, discover new things, and focus on the letters. It was sooo much more interesting then.
The Bunker is very, very interesting....no doubt about it.

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So did Kevin imagine Crowley? Because when Sam and Dean came in the windows were no longer broken.
Yeah, I noticed that too.wink.gif
post #1959 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

Disappointing episode. Reapers are suddenly afraid of Crowley? HUH? They said they are above everyone else, and will even reap God in the end. Flies in the face of what they have established in the show.

I think it was Death himself who said he would reap God.
post #1960 of 2202
The most disappointing part of this episode was the realisation that Hell is just some half-way house with some insane people locked inside. What about the moment we saw Dean with chains and hooks, suspended in the air ... now THAT looked like Hell. If you go and watch that scene again you'll see just how terrifying it was. The look on Deans face.

So Sam finds the backdoor to Hell and finds Bobby in.... like one minute. biggrin.gif Just a few corridors, turn left and there he is. Bah ... this show has turned into a joke, but then the previous stuff we learned all the way back from Season 4 has been a joke.
Edited by OllieS - 4/7/13 at 7:51am
post #1961 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

So did Kevin imagine Crowley? Because when Sam and Dean came in the windows were no longer broken.

Crowley was never there, but The boat isn't Angel-proof and Naomi can easily pop in and out. I can't remember if she wants all the tablets or just the one Cas has.

In any case Kevin is just annoying to me now so I'm glad he vanished. I was tired of him before he went crazy.
post #1962 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeewing View Post

I think it was Death himself who said he would reap God.
Yeah, I remember that now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OllieS View Post

The most disappointing part of this episode was the realisation that Hell is just some half-way house with some insane people locked inside. What about the moment we saw Dean with chains and hooks, suspended in the air ... now THAT looked like Hell. If you go and watch that scene again you'll see just how terrifying it was. The look on Deans face.
Each "inmate" is tortured in a way designed specifically for them.
Remember Bobby saying he had seen many Sams before the real one showed up?

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So Sam finds the backdoor to Hell and finds Bobby in.... like one minute. biggrin.gif Just a few corridors, turn left and there he is. Bah ....
It's a conceit of telling stories on video.
Did you want to see Sam walking around, literally, for hours looking for Bobby?wink.gif
post #1963 of 2202
The Hell situation just added to the general sloppiness of this episode - written by the racist pickup truck guys incidentally.

When Dean arrived In Purgatory it was a constant state of violence (forgetting the initially more spooky appearance) and in this episode it was literally mostly a walk in the park.

Previously we had a Hell dimension that was pure torture for years on end. A place that only an Angel can pull a soul from and was a major battle for Cas to extract Dean.

Previously we had a Purgatory that required a vampire, hunter and angel to fight their way out of and they barely made it. Having to run and carve their way through many, many demons and leviathans.

This episode might have been better if it had taken longer to find Bobby over two episodes. Rushing through both places in one episode just neutered the two most frightening places in the show.

And why is Crowley crying about a hellhound like its the only one?
post #1964 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

The Hell situation just added to the general sloppiness of this episode - written by the racist pickup truck guys incidentally.

When Dean arrived In Purgatory it was a constant state of violence (forgetting the initially more spooky appearance) and in this episode it was literally mostly a walk in the park.

Previously we had a Hell dimension that was pure torture for years on end. A place that only an Angel can pull a soul from and was a major battle for Cas to extract Dean.

Previously we had a Purgatory that required a vampire, hunter and angel to fight their way out of and they barely made it. Having to run and carve their way through many, many demons and leviathans.

This episode might have been better if it had taken longer to find Bobby over two episodes. Rushing through both places in one episode just neutered the two most frightening places in the show.

And why is Crowley crying about a hellhound like its the only one?
Well said.wink.gif
post #1965 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

Disappointing episode. Reapers are suddenly afraid of Crowley? HUH? They said they are above everyone else, and will even reap God in the end. Flies in the face of what they have established in the show.

Crowley story line needs to end, NOW! SOOOO played out. They need to go back to the bunker, discover new things, and focus on the letters. It was sooo much more interesting then.

So did Kevin imagine Crowley? Because when Sam and Dean came in the windows were no longer broken.

In no particular order (although mostly first to last)...

Death said he would reap God... the reapers have previously been enslaved by a human (remember the faith-healer episode from way way back?) so a demon or Crowley threatening one is fine. What is odd, though, is that you think Death wouldn't like the reaper freelancing or Crowley killing one of his reapers.

I too think Kevin snapped... Either he snapped from the drugs and the pressure... OR Naomi (since the place wasn't angel-proof) was driving him insane to get him to leave... Either way, I don't think Crowley found him... I think Kevin was imagining all that too.
post #1966 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

What is odd, though, is that you think Death wouldn't like the reaper freelancing or Crowley killing one of his reapers.

The angel swords are now more powerful than the Hunter's Knife and second only to the Colt. So why are Sam and Dean not permanently armed with those? Multiple times they've encountered angels or others with those weapons but they apparently just leave them lying around.
post #1967 of 2202
I don't think there is a situation that is too hard to get out of anymore. Hell was a big one and they strolled right in and got out without much fuss. It was a walk in the park. Purgatory isn't such a big deal either. Just the odd random monster that occasionally attacks. It's a nice beautiful forest with a stream. I'm sure there would have been a waterfall somewhere had they explored the place.

I also don't like that reapers are afraid of Crowley. They should be above demons. Crowley himself isn't that big of a deal. He's just an annoyance. You would think Death, being omnipresent and all, would not allow Crowley to kill one of its employees. Since when can Crowley just wave his hand and prevent a soul from reaching heaven? It's not like there was a binding contract or anything, since he already went to Hell.

I also think this should have been a 2 part episode of Sam trying to find Bobby. It couldn't have been that easy. How dumb must Crowley (and all demons) be to not know that there was a backdoor in Hell to Purgatory. Surely, after hundreds of years, they would have stumbled on to something.

What a bunch of incompetent morons.
post #1968 of 2202
Doesn't Reapers just remove the life of the living (making them deceased) and drop souls off in either heaven, hell, or purgatory?

Why would Crowley be concerned about Reapers?
He is already DEAD.
But God isn't DEAD or ALIVE, he just is.
post #1969 of 2202
Crowley is still a demon in human form, so just like every other demon he can die and go to purgatory.

Where he can then use a shortcut back to hell making purgatory kind of pointless. rolleyes.gif

Especially since Reapers can be easily persuaded to give up the exit. All demons have to do is threaten a reaper (who previously were almost invulnerable) and get the location of the exit just in case they get killed later.
post #1970 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Crowley is still a demon in human form, so just like every other demon he can die and go to purgatory.
Didn't he die in the 16th century in Britain and Sam and Dean dug him up and burned his bones?confused.gif
post #1971 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Didn't he die in the 16th century in Britain and Sam and Dean dug him up and burned his bones?confused.gif

Didn't Cas swap them out? That's why in an episode I can't remember the surprise was Cas with a bag o'bones?

I should look that up later ...

edit: I looked it up (anything to avoid working on taxes biggrin.gif ) and it seems that Cas did take his bones and then pretended to burn them. Later revealing that they had been working together to get access to Purgatory back in season 7. Who has the bones now? I'm not even sure the show is keeping track of that.
Edited by VisionOn - 4/7/13 at 4:47pm
post #1972 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Who has the bones now? I'm not even sure the show is keeping track of that.
LOL, this series is ridiculously convoluted, if you ask me...wink.gif
post #1973 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeewing View Post

I think it was Death himself who said he would reap God.

Yep Death seems to be the Big man in town. I wish they would bring him back. Death and Dean scenes are so must fun to watch.
post #1974 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Later revealing that they had been working together to get access to Purgatory back in season 7.

All that work and all they had to do was find the Reaper that Crowley killed. rolleyes.gif An Angel and a Demon and neither one knew of his ability to pop them right into Purgatory?
post #1975 of 2202
So, I guess this show has officially jumped the hellhound.
post #1976 of 2202
Every showrunner since Kripke keeps jumping the hellhound like a never ending steeplechase, but somehow they also manage to do something that keeps a bit of spark remaining.

If they could figure out a way to stop repeating the same mistakes and just being intent on screwing up the show's mythos time and again, then we might get one really good season, instead of the patchwork that usually happens. Too many big ideas that are followed through badly.

To start with the show could stop using the writers of "racist truck" because their track record is pretty poor.
post #1977 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

So, I guess this show has officially jumped the hellhound.
Nice one...biggrin.gif

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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Every showrunner since Kripke keeps jumping the hellhound like a never ending steeplechase, but somehow they also manage to do something that keeps a bit of spark remaining.
Agreed.
post #1978 of 2202
Yes, I was thinking about this, why I still enjoy the show despite the trampling of the rules of their own supernatural defined universe. I think the "spark" that remains is the core relationship of the brothers and the actors who bring them to life. I tend to slough off the little irks that crop up when watching the show, i.e., when the angel/demon/reaper/etc. hierarchy and their behavioral consistency is altered or ignored. But coming back to see it all dissected in detail here within this thread makes it that much more difficult to see beyond the missteps.
post #1979 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten View Post

Since when can Crowley just wave his hand and prevent a soul from reaching heaven? It's not like there was a binding contract or anything, since he already went to Hell.

On that point... I viewed it as if it were a setup... I don't think Crowley did have Bobby "unknowingly"... I kind of got the impression that he had a deal with Naomi... and that Naomi "helped" to get into the good graces of Sam & Dean now that Castiel has gone rogue on her. I viewed that as basically a setup. I could be wrong, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Crowley is still a demon in human form, so just like every other demon he can die and go to purgatory.

Where he can then use a shortcut back to hell making purgatory kind of pointless. rolleyes.gif

Especially since Reapers can be easily persuaded to give up the exit. All demons have to do is threaten a reaper (who previously were almost invulnerable) and get the location of the exit just in case they get killed later.

Yeah... that's the huge plot hole that seems to have been opened here. Besides wondering how it was kept secret for so long... now that it is known, seems like a problem waiting to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post

All that work and all they had to do was find the Reaper that Crowley killed. rolleyes.gif An Angel and a Demon and neither one knew of his ability to pop them right into Purgatory?

Yep... that also had bugged me... that it was so difficult that Crowley was bringing people back from the dead to hunt down "Alphas" to find out where Purgatory was... only to find out a couple of years later that "he had the power all along" (to borrow from Wizard of Oz).
post #1980 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

Yeah... that's the huge plot hole that seems to have been opened here. Besides wondering how it was kept secret for so long... now that it is known, seems like a problem waiting to happen.

Yep. The big plot of last season (or was it the one before ... ) was Crowley wanting to tap into Purgatory to recruit the power of all those souls there.

Since the door was never closed by Sam (it's just a big rock anyway) any monster sent there can go straight to Hell where Crowley can recruit them. There are other doors too so Crowley could spend his time opening those and he achieves his goal from the previous season without the hassle of the ritual they had to perform.

This entire situation could have been easily avoided by not going to Purgatory. In season one (or two ..) Sam and Dean opened a gate to Hell and John reappeared. Why didn't the show just find another gate directly there that wasn't locked?

Somehow I think this is all going to be ignored.
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