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'Supernatural' on The CW HD (& syndicated on TNT HD) - Page 68

post #2011 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

I thought the particularly dumb thing, though... was they apparently thought well enough to NOT attach her hands and legs... but why did they bring them? I would think they could just leave those things wherever they had buried them... then IF the "cure" spell worked, they could attach the rest of her later.
Or latch the box?
post #2012 of 2202
Even if they "cleansed" the demon wouldn't she have died from her wounds? Sam and Dean basically stitched her back up with the various body parts. So if they succeeded in reverting her back to her human self I would have to assume she would have died instantly. The fact she was buried underground for weeks would have been the final nail in the coffin. So no matter what they do, she's basically a dead meat suit. smile.gif
post #2013 of 2202
The fact they didn't have even use a backup Devils Trap to hold Abaddon was just a cheap writing contrivance. The rest of the episode was on shaky ground too.

In the archive footage the priest cured the demon but they approached it as if it could stay in the body - "you're a man again" - eh, what about the original soul of that person that's trapped inside that body still?
post #2014 of 2202
I thought the killing of the human/angel offspring was a bit off myself. All of a sudden she becomes aggressive which absolves Castiel of any moral issues or second thoughts he may have had about killing her. It would have been a much better scene if she had pleaded her case for being left alone as she didn't appear to be a threat. But the writers went the easy way. Frankly, they could have done without the whole sequence and just "produced" a heart from off camera sources.
post #2015 of 2202
I don't know whether Sam and Dean playing Humpty Dumpty is Plot Induced Stupidity or Idiot Ball / Plot / Season. PIS is failing to do something they would normally do, but this is likely to drive the plot of Abaddon vs. the Salesman....

And as Vision mentioned, the demon apparently maintains the powers. Related to the sewing and the lack of discarded body parts, I wonder if Abaddon will keep the meat-suit after removing the bullet / devil's trap, which is what kept it from smoking out...

I agree that the sudden "turn" with Jane the Nephilim was convenient. I was thinking two things:
v/r,
C-F
post #2016 of 2202
The Abaddon reassemble really didn't make any sense at all. They spent all that time digging up, collecting and repairing a Knight of Hell. An extremely dangerous foe who wiped out the entire order of Letters and Sam and Dean and their grandfather (whoever he was, I can't remember) barely managed to defeat.

That was somehow easier than summoning and trapping a lame crossroads demon and throwing them in the trunk as they have done countless times before.

I also thought it was funny that they left all their magical chains, cuffs and collars at the office and bound Abaddon (Demon Knight of Hell) to a chair by wrist straps. Those are really only effective when there are hands attached to stop you just pulling your arms out.
post #2017 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by goneten View Post

Even if they "cleansed" the demon wouldn't she have died from her wounds? Sam and Dean basically stitched her back up with the various body parts. So if they succeeded in reverting her back to her human self I would have to assume she would have died instantly. The fact she was buried underground for weeks would have been the final nail in the coffin. So no matter what they do, she's basically a dead meat suit. smile.gif

The way they presented it... was that the demon would be cleansed and would essentially be back to a newly-dead spirit without the "taint" of hell... though it leaves the question of possession open and why that's ok to the original soul-body-owner... but it appears like they were saying the "demon" could go on as before, but not be evil anymore... Although, it fails to take into account that demons only get to be demons by being a spirit that either earned his place in hell OR refused to go to heaven and became a vengeful spirit who then earned a place in hell... either way, a "clean" demon would only be as clean as the soul was when it died, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

I thought the killing of the human/angel offspring was a bit off myself. All of a sudden she becomes aggressive which absolves Castiel of any moral issues or second thoughts he may have had about killing her. It would have been a much better scene if she had pleaded her case for being left alone as she didn't appear to be a threat. But the writers went the easy way. Frankly, they could have done without the whole sequence and just "produced" a heart from off camera sources.

Convenient... yes... but speaking of convenience.

Metatron said she was the only one on earth... that's damn convenient when you have a set of trials to close heaven and the first trial is to cut out the heart of a being that there is only one of AND who is not supposed to exist in the first place if all the angels are following the rules.
post #2018 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

The way they presented it... was that the demon would be cleansed and would essentially be back to a newly-dead spirit without the "taint" of hell... though it leaves the question of possession open and why that's ok to the original soul-body-owner... but it appears like they were saying the "demon" could go on as before, but not be evil anymore... Although, it fails to take into account that demons only get to be demons by being a spirit that either earned his place in hell OR refused to go to heaven and became a vengeful spirit who then earned a place in hell... either way, a "clean" demon would only be as clean as the soul was when it died, no?

Well depending on the interpretation the ritual could remove the demonic element as you said and revert the being back to a human soul, giving them the capability for remorse and compassion and allowing them to confess their sins and be forgiven. Thus gaining them entry to upstairs.

Demons are beings without souls, so reverting them to their original condition upon entry to Hell gives them somewhere else to go besides the quiet all-access forest glade of Purgatory. Of course it still leaves the problem of the person trapped inside the body with the reformed demon who has had to endure all their killing and torture too. They don't come out of this as winner no matter what the outcome.

When Kripke was in charge the show was pretty solid in it's rules and mythology, but everyone since has introduced multiple elements that are not particularly well thought out or adhere to the show's established myths and monsters. The Angel Sword bullets last week were another example. Not only can the ubiquitous swords be made into bullets but Castiel doesn't appear to have mentioned this to Sam and Dean which could have come in useful. Same with Devil's Trap bullets. This week they were using the old rock salt shotguns in case Crowley's minions turned up.

Thor's hammer might be useful too. Better than the Hunter's Knife that is weak sauce compared to the swords.
post #2019 of 2202
Yeah... I don't know why they wouldn't have been spending time in the man-cave-bunker making more of those devil's trap bullets... especially if they were going to go demon hunting.
post #2020 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

Yeah... I don't know why they wouldn't have been spending time in the man-cave-bunker making more of those devil's trap bullets... especially if they were going to go demon hunting.
If they are going to use it for more than the one off with the "Knight", hopefully, they would put it on the base, with a plug. Otherwise, the trap would likely be deformed upon entry, and thus, worthless.

v/r,
C-F
post #2021 of 2202
I'm surprised this week when they went full-on with the chains and traps to hold Crowley that they never referenced last week when they failed to do the same.

Kind of a lackluster finale but may be that's because the Arrow finale preceding it was such a blast.

So a season of running around with trials turned out to be apparently pointless. Cas is human again but at least Dean or Sam did not die or get sent to another dimension for six months. Abaddon, not such a big deal after all. Makes you wonder why they didn't just set her on fire the first time she beat them up.
post #2022 of 2202
Kind of a blah ending. I kept expecting Sam to shove that bloody rag into Crowley's mouth and get it over with. I did not buy Dean's plea to Sam one bit, Dean will question and dump him at a moment's notice. Very hypocritical.

Also had a feeling Cas was being setup. A bit more obvious than the Ruby plot line, but again derivative.
post #2023 of 2202
Burning Abaddon didn't kill her... just forced her to leave the body in search of another one. That's why they didn't do that before... they wanted to either kill/cure her permanently or leave her trapped there. Unfortunately, they screwed the pooch on that one.

I wonder if Crowley is stuck halfway now... or the blood thing wears off and he goes back to his usual self since Dean didn't finish the ritual?

I figured there would be a price, but didn't figure it would be as simple as Sam having to die... I don't know how I feel about all that... leading to a plot point of no completion.

I did kind of see the angel thing coming... I had a feeling Metatron wasn't giving Castiel the full scoop... just didn't seem right to me... also, seemed odd that it would be required for an Angel to shut the gates to heaven... but a regular dude can shut the gates to hell... seems like the point of those gate-shutting deals would be for man to have a shot.

I almost got my wish, though... I have a feeling like even though hell wasn't shut down... that Sam + Dean will be having their hands full with fallen angels next season.
post #2024 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

Burning Abaddon didn't kill her... just forced her to leave the body in search of another one. That's why they didn't do that before... they wanted to either kill/cure her permanently or leave her trapped there. Unfortunately, they screwed the pooch on that one.

I'm thinking back to when they first encountered her and she was kicking their ass. The show made her almost unbeatable until the magic bullet turned up, but according to this episode they could have just torched her and bought themselves plenty of time.

And how come the magic handcuffs and collar prevented Crowley from using any of his regular powers but didn't stop him using the magic bloodcom?
post #2025 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

I'm thinking back to when they first encountered her and she was kicking their ass. The show made her almost unbeatable until the magic bullet turned up, but according to this episode they could have just torched her and bought themselves plenty of time.

And how come the magic handcuffs and collar prevented Crowley from using any of his regular powers but didn't stop him using the magic bloodcom?

Yeah... but they knew she was some kind of super-demon... they didn't just want her to leave the body and go elsewhere. They wanted to kill her, but the dagger didn't work... so trapping her and separating the body parts seemed the way to go at the time.

This time, however, Sam didn't care if she got away because he thought he was going to be closing hell... so he just needed to buy time.

Not sure about the bloodphone... I guess the chains didn't protect/guard against that?
post #2026 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

This time, however, Sam didn't care if she got away because he thought he was going to be closing hell... so he just needed to buy time.

Ah, good point. I can buy that.
post #2027 of 2202
So now we have Hell on earth? Sorry Heaven on earth.
Things are about to get fun for next season.
post #2028 of 2202
FYI Supernatural is moving to Tuesdays next season.
post #2029 of 2202
GREAT season finale! Loved seeing all the angels flaming towards earth. Gonna be an interesting turn of events next season! They really outdid themselves in reviving this. I've been a fan since day one! LOVE OUR BOYS!
post #2030 of 2202
Other than all the drama, I am not sure why Sam did not go ahead and stuff Crowley. I thought the other Hunters in heaven came out and stated that the Winchesters had been bounced back out of heaven more times than they could count. After what happened to the angels, the missing father could have come back and decided that Sam is needed to clean up the mess...

I was also wondering what Sam threw on Abaddon. I thought it was holy water (that wasn't working), then when he lit it, I thought it was gas - until I remembered that Holy Oil which traps archangels. I thought it was Enochian Oil, but when I went to verify the name of it on the wiki, it was already updated to that.

v/r,
C-F
post #2031 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

Sam + Dean will be having their hands full with fallen angels next season.
Agreed.
With Heaven closed and Hell still open for business, Earth will become a real battleground.

Also, it looks like Kevin will still be in the mix.
post #2032 of 2202
Little dissapointed in this final episode. All that work and they don't close hell BUT they close heaven. I don't think they wouldn't sacrifice themselves if it meant closing hell forever, seems like exactly waht the boys would do. Now it looks like the writers are going to lean on their crutch even more and have more Crowley and demons. Shame they didn't have the balls to actually perma kill them off and move on to something else, like the bunker.

Dean is still the highlight of the show. His humor is just freaking fantastic, he really makes this show.
post #2033 of 2202
But they (Sam, Dean, Castiel) did not close heaven, Metatron just clipped the wings off all the angels -- he made sure to tell Castiel to tell him his human story when Castiel died and came back up.

Well, it just hit me that only Castiel lost his grace, and the fallen angels kept the same powers like Lucifer. redface.gif I guess that is why I could not figure out why the MoL mapboard was lighting up for a bunch of "Anna's".

So does that mean those angels that were on the bubble with the Armageddon / double agent for Hell will toss their hat in with the demons now? And does that mean there are more players now vying for King of Hell? I mean they are still a cut above the demons, things like "angel radio" and such, and didn't Lucifer consider the demons as expendable?



v/r,
C-F
post #2034 of 2202
Metatron closed heaven, He did write the books after all. That being said. with Kevin on the loose and able to read God's word. Maybe there will be some sort of open the pearly gates card? Or maybe a back door in to heave he fines?
Cass will become a hunter. No powers no nothing. Maybe he will find some peace.
Crowley will be "a kinder, gentler demon" I see him losing tile King of Hell.
Abaddon will take over Hell.
post #2035 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by CANNON-FODDER View Post

But they (Sam, Dean, Castiel) did not close heaven, Metatron just clipped the wings off all the angels -- he made sure to tell Castiel to tell him his human story when Castiel died and came back up.

Well, it just hit me that only Castiel lost his grace, and the fallen angels kept the same powers like Lucifer. redface.gif I guess that is why I could not figure out why the MoL mapboard was lighting up for a bunch of "Anna's".

So does that mean those angels that were on the bubble with the Armageddon / double agent for Hell will toss their hat in with the demons now? And does that mean there are more players now vying for King of Hell? I mean they are still a cut above the demons, things like "angel radio" and such, and didn't Lucifer consider the demons as expendable?



v/r,
C-F

Sorry, I was referring to the writers not having the balls to go forward with some of those story lines so they can use demons as crutches again, same old same old enemies.
post #2036 of 2202
Metatron didn't close heaven. He just expelled all the angels from access as angels by essentially kicking them out of the angel corp in the way that Lucifer was kicked out back in the day.

Heaven itself is still open for business... it's just that right now, the only known ways to get into heaven are:

1. Be an Angel
2. Die having earned your way to heaven as a good soul.

Had Metatron closed heaven, then there would be no way back into heaven... so he didn't do that. He just rid the world of angels basically so the only way into heaven now is to be good and die.
post #2037 of 2202
I hope next season is the last season. Too many stupid things are happening, and the entire trials story arc was pointless.
post #2038 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakesh.S View Post

I hope next season is the last season. Too many stupid things are happening, and the entire trials story arc was pointless.
I was hoping this year would be the last....
post #2039 of 2202
This series was produced by people who worked on "The X-Files" so they know how to keep a series going. It's one of the few weekly series that doesn't bore me.
post #2040 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

I was hoping this year would be the last....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
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