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'Supernatural' on The CW HD (& syndicated on TNT HD) - Page 12

post #331 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

I think I can answer this.

While the characters know that Hell exists, they don't know what lies beyond for "good" people or whether they are destined to go there (they may not be considered truly good people, even though they'd fought demons). For all they know, being good just means going back to your hole in the ground. They haven't seen any angels - real ones, anyway. For all they know, Heaven may be the living life.

Dean did it because he wasn't meant to be alive anyway. His father bargained for his life. He figured, not only was he supposed to be dead, his father was in Hell so why not join him? Dean's father bargained for him because that's what any good father would do for his son.

The existence of Heaven in the show has been touched on and hinted at, unlike Hell. But, even if your only choice were either a literal Hell, or non-existence, would you really choose to go to Hell? Is it better to survive in Hell than to disappear forever?

Scott
post #332 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackngold75 View Post

Plus, the main characters seem to know now that going to hell isn't necessarily forever.

I don't know if I buy this. I don't think we saw or heard about anyone escaping from Hell at the time Dean made his deal. He didn't see his father leave until after that. And there's no indications that any of the characters seen in Crossroad Blues made it back out.

Scott
post #333 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emaych View Post

I don't know about that last bit there. LOST is landmark TV, as good as it gets or has ever been...

I don't want to deviate into a Lost discussion, but many of the season two and three episodes didn't seem to drive the plot, nor were they entertaining to me. That's the only contrast I was trying to draw, so let's just agree to disagree on that comparison (at least in this thread).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emaych View Post

On the point of signing off on contractual obligation to Hell, is that what we have here? Now every viewer knows of course that he is NOT going to Hell, we have seen that Dad can escape and does not seem substantially damaged or wrecked or seduced, he is still the good Dad on hiatus, ready to return. So it would seem the simple answer is that no one believes in obligation to actual Hell as a tangible, real option -- or at least Hell is not what we are conceiving it is -- I myself would expect to be transformed permanently by a POW experience, Hell I imagine to be exponentially worse, yet if you can emerge with love and compassion in your eyes, ready to perform noble service and acquiesce to a passive reabsorption, then it is not what I picture it to be.

The version of Hell you're describing sounds more like a nasty purgatory rather than Hell itself. Yes, John escapes, but that's really due to something that was not supposed to ever happen. It was only through the extraordinary planning and manipulation of Old Yeller Eyes that there was a chance this could happen. To bet one's eternal damnation on a fluke happening again seems to be an horrible, unthinkable wager.

If Hell is not the literal Hell that the show seems to refer to, but rather just a place to hang out and redeem yourself through contemplation, temporary suffering, etc., doesn't that rob the decision of much of its dramatic power?

As an audience, we can be pretty certain that Dean will either escape his obligation or escape Hell, but would his character really be that confident?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emaych View Post

I found it very telling that our Demon seductress female Monty Hall from Hell, laid bare the very insubstantiality of Hell's enforcement capabilities, by specifying that if Dean should waver on the day or weasel out of it, well OK then buddy, that's gonna mean your bro only got a year extra life -- we're not gonna grab you, but we will immediately return everything to the way it was. Sounds like Dean got a hell of a deal, not Hell for his deal.

But, given that Dean's motivation was to bring back his brother without self-concern, that's not really a possibility he'd be willing to face. That also assumes that there's some kind of wiggle room in the agreement. Granted, it helps if you brother is (almost) a lawyer, but its still not a given.

I was thinking that one way of getting out of this deal, and possibly saving Sam, would be to make a deal with another demon. It almost looks like the show's demonic structure of Hell is partially based on the old Greek gods, in that they all had much more power than man, but spent a lot of their time arguing, and using men as tools for getting back at the other gods. I'd like to see that explored in next season's episodes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emaych View Post

To me, a curious element is that Dean didn't really get his Bro back, but something other. Is that the end of the character? or where did he go exactly? Is he coming back? In fact, if he didn't get dear brother back, the deal is already nullified it would seem.

That was another interesting twist to the story. The YED planted this thought in Dean's head, but is it true, or did he just make it up? Past resurrections haven't gone all that well on the show, is Sam an exception? If he's not the real Sam, can the real Sam be returned?

If, in the Supernatural universe, there is only Hell or nothing else, does that mean that either Sam was in Hell, but has no memory of it, or did he simply go away and come back? If that's the case, where did he come back from? There just aren't enough answers given out for us to know at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emaych View Post

Also one wonders that if the short-lived death (so to speak) left a taint of evil, how come Dad who has been a presumed full-timer in Hell is still up to good deeds? How about: are there two classes of souls in Hell? -- those that belong through deeds and are perpetuating evil and those that are good but held captive? Do both suffer equally?

Interesting thoughts. If you willingly make a deal to go to Hell, would you be granted any special considerations? I would think you'd be held up to even more scorn than the rest of the residents. Would a presumed innocent necessarily be corrupted? I won't continue with these particular thoughts since we may be heading too close to "Topics that are forbidden on this forum" so I'll let it rest there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emaych View Post

Alot of intriguing ways for this to go. I am so happy to have been derailed from my initial impressions. The acting and writing are way better than they have any right to be, but everyone who emerges with this on their resume, will have something proud to show.

Here we can be in full agreement. I just wish there were more people watching and appreciating what they're putting together each season.

Scott
post #334 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emaych View Post

BTW, srw1000, thank you for thoughtful and provocative post.

Thanks, and thanks for adding to the discussion.

I think this is another indication of how good this show is. There's a lot of ideas to contemplate, all wrapped up in some good stories, solid production values, and pretty decent acting.

Scott
post #335 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

There are lots of story lines this can go into. They released hundreds of demons. They have to round them up, or find a way to get them all back. They can delve deeper into the Colt story, that was awesome with the grave yard. They can delve into Dean's 1 year to live and trying to find a way out of it. They can go into how the roadhouse was killed and perhaps there are only a handful of hunters left and they have to unite to fight a final battle. Multiple things they can do. Excellent show, excellent episode.

Yeah, it was a really good season-ender, and an even better setter-upper for next season.

I was very relieved to see that it'll be back for a third season. The writers and producers were working on season three mid-way through season two, so we should be watching some great TV next year.

Scott
post #336 of 2202
didn't anybody here watch the season premiere? Or is there another thread somewhere?
post #337 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by timick1 View Post

didn't anybody here watch the season premiere? Or is there another thread somewhere?

I saw it and enjoyed it. Great show. I hope the get Dean out of the contract in a cool way and not just, oh, we tricked her, I'm out of it.
post #338 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by timick1 View Post

didn't anybody here watch the season premiere? Or is there another thread somewhere?

Nope, this is the right thread. Funny that there aren't more comments about the premier, because I agree that it was a really good episode.
post #339 of 2202
This series just plain kicks ass. And I'm late to the party - I just started watching in the middle of season 2.

So, any guesses on the story of the new hunter with the demon-killing blade?
post #340 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluto17 View Post

So, any guesses on the story of the new hunter with the demon-killing blade?

I may be going out on this one, but does anyone think she may be working for the 'Good' side. As in an angel of some sort. With all the demon-soldiers there are, one would think since the odds have been shifted heavy on the Hell side that the 'Heaven' side would dispatch some soldiers to help even the playing field. As noted earlier, much hasn't been said about the Heaven/Good side of things...so maybe this is there opportunity to explore it.

She does seem to vanish easily and that blade is definately 'blessed'.
post #341 of 2202
We watched it, but in SD and delayed on the DVR. We can only get it here on a sub-channel in SD, we were spoiled in KC where the WB & UPN both were up in HD before the merge...

Can't speak to the blonde*, but it could just be another artifact like the Colt.

Since iron dissipates the ghosts and minor demons (I think - as in the girl in the cage-match town) and knives dipped in corpse blood seem to kill d'jinn and other more corporeal things, it could also be another class of weapon.

*spoilers abound since the wife got hooked on TV Guide during the RV stint, and kept it since we moved to SARA from PASSPORT on the DVR.


Of course the writers play fast and loose with their own universe here, as in the iron pentagram, which was impenetrable until they needed it to not be. Without loosing anything really, they could have just had a road worker or govt. official break it and saved the convention...

v/r,
C-F
post #342 of 2202
if you are using spoilers, please use the spoiler tags...i hate scrolling down a page and seeing spoilers

it's easy to use - [spoiler] insert text [*/spoiler]

Take the * out in the second one.
post #343 of 2202
I'm really liking this show. The stories are good, acting is good most of the time, music is excellent (and dolby 5.1).
post #344 of 2202
I dislike spoiler tags in the thread (which is why I won't comment on the blonde), they are just like that magazine still setting on the remote-stool... and if I see it often, eventually I will cave.

Plus, I have not tested the new forum software, but the old one would publish the spoiler text in the e-mail notifications...

v/r,
C-F
post #345 of 2202
Yeah I was surprised there weren't more comments about the premiere. A solid opener for sure. I as well hope they adress the death deal in a smart way (I think they will) I hope they don't jump the shark with that female character and rely to heavily on her as a gimmick. They have shown a lot of demons I think it s about time to show some heroes from the other side other than Hunters.
post #346 of 2202
Is anyone else dissappointed that the 'mystery blonde' turned out to be yet 'another' demon and not a soldier from the other team?
Sure she's a rogue demon, but still a demon. It just seems the writers are unwilling or afraid to tackle the 'otherside' of the supernatural equation outside of a quick scene ala priest or something.
post #347 of 2202
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I still think that kid was Dean's son and she lied just to avoid the complications. Its not like she could count on Dean for child support or anything. Something about that scene did not seem quite 'final' to me...
post #348 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampz26 View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I still think that kid was Dean's son and she lied just to avoid the complications. Its not like she could count on Dean for child support or anything. Something about that scene did not seem quite 'final' to me...


Agreed! Plus it makes for a nice ongoing plot element and potentially some additional motivation to not give up.

~DT
post #349 of 2202
BTW, is anyone in the North Florida area getting this in HD via DTV? It's such a bummer having everything else we watch in HD.

It's *almost* worth pulling out "the ears" for some OTA HD for this one show. Too bad there's not some HD channel partnered up with the CW to rebroadcast delayed but in HD.
post #350 of 2202
Good episode last night.

Any chance an admin could change the title of this thread to "Supernatural on The CW in HDTV"?

I thought we were done with the WB.
post #351 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul^G1138 View Post

Is anyone else dissappointed that the 'mystery blonde' turned out to be yet 'another' demon and not a soldier from the other team?
Sure she's a rogue demon, but still a demon. It just seems the writers are unwilling or afraid to tackle the 'otherside' of the supernatural equation outside of a quick scene ala priest or something.

I'm not. It leads me to believe there's something truly epic coming down the pike. I also never really considered that not all the demons would be on board with "the plan" - or at least not actively opposed to it. Some of them seem to have their own agendas, but up to now, they've all been on board with the managment.
post #352 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

I also never really considered that not all the demons would be on board with "the plan" - or at least not actively opposed to it. Some of them seem to have their own agendas, but up to now, they've all been on board with the managment.

Reminds me a little of Good Omens (by the amazing Neil Gaimen & Terry Pratchett) - the lead devil doesn't want the Apocalypse to happen, because regardless of what side wins, it will be B O R I N G (he conspires with an Angel both of who just love the earth as-is - one owns a bookstore where you always find exactly what you want ).

I think the shows writers have made a point of the other team not having direct "hands on" involvement with the war at hand.

~DT
post #353 of 2202
the most recent episode, outside of the creep factor with the changelings, was disappointing...

I guess I am spoiled by the quality of season 2..
post #354 of 2202
Hmm, I was thinking that the changeling story was a bit shorted by the overarching story arc this week. Seemed more abrupt/disconnected than earlier, where my perception was always that the focus was on the current [job] unless it was a whole episode about the seasonal arc. Otherwise, the overarching story was mostly told in the last couple of minutes, with maybe a minute at the beginning and one stuck in the middle.

But, I could not write/produce any better, so I shouldn't complain...


v/r,
C-F
post #355 of 2202
Hey I wanted to drop into this thread and say I love this show! I even prefer it now over Smallville. It makes me happy they have not PGed it up to make it more kid friendly (I'm looking at you Heroes). There are actually some pretty scary moments on Supernatural. I looked forward to this weeks episode!
post #356 of 2202
Just watched tonight's episode. The writers have a talent for adding just enough humor into the mix to make it enjoyable yet not too much to dilute the dark/serious theme that runs through the show.
I was, however, disappointed with the cop out on the 'mission from God' bit. As discussed earlier in the thread, we're constantly exposed to various demons & minions of the underworld that the hunters are fighting against, but very rarely do they touch on the other team. But when the do....c'mon!!! Why does it always have to be some psycho-derranged "God lead me to him" koo-koo. I mean seriously. It's almost become a clitche, it's been used so much.

On a different note. I just finished reading the first Supernatural tv tie-in novel "Evermore" by Keith R.A. DeCandido. It was a pretty good read. The next book "Witch's Canyon" is due out next month.

Also, The Supernatural comic "Origins" is good too if you're a comic reader.

Well, I guess I just exposed my geekdom. I feel so vunerable.
post #357 of 2202
Very good episode...right up there with some of the "comic" X-Files ones. This show just keeps getting better and better.
post #358 of 2202
I agree that it is definately one of the few shows out there that is still getting better rather than leveling out or struggling to maintain some freshness.
I like where they're going with the archs. It seems the brothers are now on the run from the underworld, FBI & now fellow hunters (even if they are 'nuts'). It's gonna get tricky for them to solve cases & keep their heads down.
post #359 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul^G1138 View Post

Also, The Supernatural comic "Origins" is good too if you're a comic reader.

Well, I guess I just exposed my geekdom. I feel so vunerable.

The comic has been great. I'm waiting for the last issue. Nice twist at the end of issue #5 though.
post #360 of 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakesh.S View Post

The comic has been great. I'm waiting for the last issue. Nice twist at the end of issue #5 though.

Agreed, I never saw that coming. I think the comic does a good job in keeping with the same level and tone of the show.
Although it's not needed to watch & enjoy the series, it definately adds to it and helps
in uncovering who their father was & his motives for being so secretive.
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