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post #151 of 441
One thing you might want to look at is signal levels. The DVR seems more finnicky about levels than my non-DVR was.
post #152 of 441
... and also has a 3.5db decrease in signal because it has two tuners with an internal splitter. My guess is that some of the channels were marginal to begin with and having the dual tuners, the signal is now at 1/2 the power (-3db) and causing more errors in the stream.
I use the 3100HD, 3250HD 8000HD DVR, and 8300HD DVR.
The 8300 looks the best, with the 3250 coming in second. The 8000 comes in third only because it has a bit of haze to the image, although resolution seems unaffected. The 3100 is last, but only because it's earlier generation that doesn't seem to have that pop.

vegggas
post #153 of 441
Hello, Newbie here, where can I find the latest SARA version and how do I install ?
COX Cle, 8300HD, PIO 5070
post #154 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by traubi007 View Post

Hello, Newbie here, where can I find the latest SARA version and how do I install ?
COX Cle, 8300HD, PIO 5070

Is that COX Cleveland ?
If so, we wait for Cox to get around to it. When and if, Cox will install it in the middle of the night.


Cox Cleveland, SARA v1.87.21.1
post #155 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by traubi007 View Post

Hello, Newbie here, where can I find the latest SARA version and how do I install ?
COX Cle, 8300HD, PIO 5070

You don't install it. The updates are usually pushed late at night(early morning) by your cableco directly through the cable line.
post #156 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegggas View Post

... and also has a 3.5db decrease in signal because it has two tuners with an internal splitter. ....
The 8300 looks the best....

vegggas

Veggas...after living w/ this PVR now for a couple of weeks, I think the 3.5db decrease in signal must be the answer. I DO have the 8300. But indeed, there is markedly more difference between channels based on the signal, with about half the channels falling 2-3db outside the "acceptable" range (certainly would then be within range on non-PVR). I notice times when the picture improves and this corresponds with improved signal.

Does this mean that ANY PVR will result in a signal decrease? Is there a way to boost the signal on a TV without a QAM tuner (which I don't believe that my Samsung s5687w has)?
post #157 of 441
thanks, Guys..
so really IF Cox dosn't update - I will not get the new features etc.. right ?
so calling them and request an update ?
post #158 of 441
I live in New York, NY (Time Warner Cable), and I just got my 8300. It worked fine when I turned it on (although it took forever to change channels), but after about 10 minutes, then I changed the channel to CNN, and it started stuttering. I'd get maybe half a second of sound every 3 seconds, and the picture was broken and distorted. I tried changing back to my original channel, and then that one was broken, too.

Any suggestions?
post #159 of 441
Do you have splitters in the system? If so, try disconnecting everything and run a co-ax from the main cable entrance to the STB.

Also see:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9529931
post #160 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by brookwooder View Post

Veggas...after living w/ this PVR now for a couple of weeks, I think the 3.5db decrease in signal must be the answer. I DO have the 8300. But indeed, there is markedly more difference between channels based on the signal, with about half the channels falling 2-3db outside the "acceptable" range (certainly would then be within range on non-PVR). I notice times when the picture improves and this corresponds with improved signal.

Does this mean that ANY PVR will result in a signal decrease? Is there a way to boost the signal on a TV without a QAM tuner (which I don't believe that my Samsung s5687w has)?

How is your 8300 connected? Does the cable come straight from the wall to the 8300? Or is there a splitter, powerstrip/conditioner, or something between the wall and the 8300?
post #161 of 441
First of all, thanks to all of you who are regulars here. I've been lurking around these forums learning from you all for the past few weeks.

I recently purchased my first HTIB, finally making the jump to "real audio."

I've finally configured my SA 8300HD DVR from Time Warner (Rochester, NY) for the proper display settings and digital output (via digital optical).

As soon as I made these sweeping changes, I noticed a major problem. The DVR is connected to my TV via HDMI and to the A/V Receiver via digital optical cable. The DVR is set to "Dolby Digital" (as opposed to HDMI).

Now, whenever I turn on the box or switch inputs (to use my XBox 360, Wii, etc.) or turn the box off, I get snow... even when the box is off. I saw a couple of other posts about this, but didn't see any resolution.

If I press the "HD/Zoom" button on the DVR remote, it will cycle through and correct the picture. Also, if I jump from an HD channel to an SD channel (or vice versa), it corrects.

Is this a firmware bug or is my box going/gone bad?

If it's a firmware problem, am I better off with component cables?

I've got a home service call scheduled for Saturday and I'm not letting them take my existing box (with all of my recording preferences) until I test the new box for the same issue.

I've tested the HDMI cable, TV HDMI port(s), digital optical cable, and the resolution settings (by restoring the default of only 1080i). Only this combination (HDMI for video, digital optical for sound, set to Dolby Digital) causes this problem.

Any help that anyone offers will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance.

Michael

TV: Samsung DLP (HLS4266W)
DVR: SA 8300HD
HTIB: Onkyo HT-S790
post #162 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelsfutter View Post

First of all, thanks to all of you who are regulars here. I've been lurking around these forums learning from you all for the past few weeks.

I recently purchased my first HTIB, finally making the jump to "real audio."

I've finally configured my SA 8300HD DVR from Time Warner (Rochester, NY) for the proper display settings and digital output (via digital optical).

As soon as I made these sweeping changes, I noticed a major problem. The DVR is connected to my TV via HDMI and to the A/V Receiver via digital optical cable. The DVR is set to "Dolby Digital" (as opposed to HDMI).

Now, whenever I turn on the box or switch inputs (to use my XBox 360, Wii, etc.) or turn the box off, I get snow... even when the box is off. I saw a couple of other posts about this, but didn't see any resolution.

If I press the "HD/Zoom" button on the DVR remote, it will cycle through and correct the picture. Also, if I jump from an HD channel to an SD channel (or vice versa), it corrects.

Is this a firmware bug or is my box going/gone bad?

If it's a firmware problem, am I better off with component cables?

I've got a home service call scheduled for Saturday and I'm not letting them take my existing box (with all of my recording preferences) until I test the new box for the same issue.

I've tested the HDMI cable, TV HDMI port(s), digital optical cable, and the resolution settings (by restoring the default of only 1080i). Only this combination (HDMI for video, digital optical for sound, set to Dolby Digital) causes this problem.

Any help that anyone offers will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance.

Michael

TV: Samsung DLP (HLS4266W)
DVR: SA 8300HD
HTIB: Onkyo HT-S790

So, have you tried component hookup? Maybe you indicated this in your next to the last paragraph.
post #163 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelsfutter View Post

First of all, thanks to all of you who are regulars here. I've been lurking around these forums learning from you all for the past few weeks.

I recently purchased my first HTIB, finally making the jump to "real audio."

I've finally configured my SA 8300HD DVR from Time Warner (Rochester, NY) for the proper display settings and digital output (via digital optical).

As soon as I made these sweeping changes, I noticed a major problem. The DVR is connected to my TV via HDMI and to the A/V Receiver via digital optical cable. The DVR is set to "Dolby Digital" (as opposed to HDMI).

Now, whenever I turn on the box or switch inputs (to use my XBox 360, Wii, etc.) or turn the box off, I get snow... even when the box is off. I saw a couple of other posts about this, but didn't see any resolution.

If I press the "HD/Zoom" button on the DVR remote, it will cycle through and correct the picture. Also, if I jump from an HD channel to an SD channel (or vice versa), it corrects.

Is this a firmware bug or is my box going/gone bad?

If it's a firmware problem, am I better off with component cables?

I've got a home service call scheduled for Saturday and I'm not letting them take my existing box (with all of my recording preferences) until I test the new box for the same issue.

I've tested the HDMI cable, TV HDMI port(s), digital optical cable, and the resolution settings (by restoring the default of only 1080i). Only this combination (HDMI for video, digital optical for sound, set to Dolby Digital) causes this problem.

Any help that anyone offers will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance.

Michael

TV: Samsung DLP (HLS4266W)
DVR: SA 8300HD
HTIB: Onkyo HT-S790

What you are running into is fairly normal for the HDMI connection. It is really due to the required security (HDCP) handshake between the set and the DVR. Every DVR wil give the same problem - so don't swap it out. (8300s are kind of rare these days, they will likely give you an old 8000). If this problem really bothers you, you can switch to component cables.

I assume that you are not now having any audio issues with the Audio set to "Dolby Digital"
post #164 of 441
Thanks, guys. Component cables work A-OK. No audio issues whatsoever... just video.

I guess I find it kind of absurd that I'm forced to make the choice between the best audio and the best video. With what we're charged for cable (not to mention the equipment costs) I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to be able to access the best audio and best video available in my equipment

Regardless, thank you for your responses. I'll switch over to component cables. Thanks!

Michael
post #165 of 441
Just got off the phone with Time Warner. After five calls, I finally got an HD specialist. I was promised a call back three times and I had to actually demand it this time.

The HD Specialist indicated that he has heard of the snow problem when using HDMI and the Dolby Digital setting on the DVR. Apparently, a number of other customers have complained about this issue. He processed a problem report and told me that they would be investigating the problem tomorrow. He said I would likely receive a call as they were looking at my box.

Here's hoping this prompts a firmware upgrade that corrects this problem.
post #166 of 441
I'm a bit confused: how does DD setting tie into this?
post #167 of 441
Sorry. I guess I wasn't clear. The snow problem only happens when I've set the DVR to output audio to "Dolby Digital" (as opposed to "HDMI" or "Other").

I'm not entirely sure why it's happening, but the problem is that the DD output is messing with the signal over HDMI. I've temporarily (hopefully) shifted to component cables until the matter is resolved.

If that doesn't clear it up, I guess I could go into details on all the experimentation that I did...

Sorry if it's unclear. I just got my first HTIB and I'm still learning about all the audio options... which is why I'm just noticing this problem now.

Thanks!
post #168 of 441
Thanks, the issue is usually stated the other way around (having HDMI connection messes up the DD to a separate receiver). The interesting thing that you came up with is that you ONLY have the HDCP handshake problem (that's what the snow is due to) when you have the sound set to DD, and not to HDMI.

We are due to get an update to SARA any time now - but I sort of doubt that your issue will be addressed.
post #169 of 441
Thanks, Dave. I'm still learning about the inner workings of the SA 8300HD and the problems (both separate and related) that HDCP causes.

Would cycling the resolution/stretch modes on the DVR cause another (successful) attempt at the handshake?
post #170 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelsfutter View Post

Thanks, Dave. I'm still learning about the inner workings of the SA 8300HD and the problems (both separate and related) that HDCP causes.

Would cycling the resolution/stretch modes on the DVR cause another (successful) attempt at the handshake?

It's hard to say. The issue seems to be different with different displays (that's why cable is often "stumped" with these issues - and usually recommend component connections).
post #171 of 441
I hooked up via component last night while my HDMI was connected, giving me the ability to switch back and forth.

Whew. Anyone who says that the difference between component and HDMI is almost imperceptible must be blind. The HDMI was clearly sharper and more vibrant. I hope they get this fixed soon... or I may just have to re-evaluate my choice of audio over video.

Thanks again for the replies and advice!
post #172 of 441
I guess I'm a little confused. Why not just set the 8300 to HDMI audio and do away with the optical? Is the optical output a better audio signal?
post #173 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelsfutter View Post

I hooked up via component last night while my HDMI was connected, giving me the ability to switch back and forth.

Whew. Anyone who says that the difference between component and HDMI is almost imperceptible must be blind. The HDMI was clearly sharper and more vibrant. I hope they get this fixed soon... or I may just have to re-evaluate my choice of audio over video.

Thanks again for the replies and advice!

I agree. Until just recently I had my 8300 connected to my display via HDMI and I have always felt that it was superior to component. The images were clearer and sharper and less saturated than component. Due to some other connectivity issues, it's now connected via component and I too can notice a difference. It's certainly acceptable, but just not as crisp.
post #174 of 441
With all due respect to my vision-challenged friends (and the use of a poor cliche I might add), the folks who do not notice much, if any difference, are not blind, they simply have a CRT-based HDTV. As has been noted many times, almost anyone with a digital (LCD, DLP, etc.) HDTV will notice a difference in PQ. There is almost certainly some difference even on CRT sets, just not enough to see without a side-by-side comparison or to warrant dealing with HDMI/HDCP/Audio problems. Most video is subjective anyway, so even those with digital might still not see enough of a difference to make dealing with other issues worth the hassle.
post #175 of 441
First, let me apologize to anyone offended by my use of the word, "blind."

The reason I don't want to just set to HDMI is that you lose surround sound. For shows only broadcast in stereo, the HDMI (audio) setting is fine.

I also happened to notice that the problem comes back when switching tv inputs (HDMI to Component and back again) when the "Dolby Digital" option is selected on the DVR. My theory is that any time you initialize the HDMI connection again, it needs to re-handshake.

The Dolby Digital setting on the DVR messes with HDCP in such a way that the handshake isn't completed successfully. This does not happen when the audio is set to HDMI.

Here's my question: Would Time Warner ever consider disabling HDCP on individual boxes due to this problem? Do they even have that kind of control?
post #176 of 441
The differences between HDMI and Component are more dependent on your displays proccessing of the signal. Technically, they are capable of the exact same output quality, but are constrained by the connection types (i.e. poor quality component cables could affect PQ) and how the signal is handled at the display. The biggest factor is that most digital displays, since they are fixed, have to convert the component signal and scale it, and do a piss poor job. Those that are called "Blilnd" have a display that is usually better at handling the various inputs.

Also, turning off HDCP is not an option. That is the only reason HDMI exists, as a way to control and protect digital video.

vegggas
post #177 of 441
Thanks for the reply.

I guess I just have to sit and hope that TW Rochester can react to this. If the guy was telling me the truth (and the only reason I'm suspicious is that it took me three or four requests to get someone on the phone, including the last CSR trying to rush me off the phone without talking to an HD tech), they have heard this from a number of subscribers and are going to follow up on it.

He said something about taking a look at my box remotely. Not sure what he's looking for or if there is something that can be done, though.

I think I saw in the service menu that I'm running SARA 1.88.??.

Michael
post #178 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegggas View Post

The differences between HDMI and Component are more dependent on your displays proccessing of the signal. Technically, they are capable of the exact same output quality, but are constrained by the connection types (i.e. poor quality component cables could affect PQ) and how the signal is handled at the display. The biggest factor is that most digital displays, since they are fixed, have to convert the component signal and scale it, and do a piss poor job. Those that are called "Blilnd" have a display that is usually better at handling the various inputs.

Also, turning off HDCP is not an option. That is the only reason HDMI exists, as a way to control and protect digital video.

vegggas

vegggas, I agree with everything you say - but I would also like to introduce an additional variable - the user settings (brightness, color, etc.) settings probably need to be different for component and HDMI. M ost decent sets these days have separate memories for each input but for someone to make a comparison they really need to make sure that they have these set to appear nearly the same as possible.

For example, one poster said that with HDMI the picture appeared brighter and more vibrant, while another said the opposite (picture appeared pale on HDMI). In my experience (in calibrating) I've found considerable differences in the correct settings from set to set.

BTW: This is not a CRT vs digital display thing (though the other Dave did make a good point) - it is likely largely a user setting thing.
post #179 of 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelsfutter View Post

First, let me apologize to anyone offended by my use of the word, "blind."

The reason I don't want to just set to HDMI is that you lose surround sound. For shows only broadcast in stereo, the HDMI (audio) setting is fine.

I also happened to notice that the problem comes back when switching tv inputs (HDMI to Component and back again) when the "Dolby Digital" option is selected on the DVR. My theory is that any time you initialize the HDMI connection again, it needs to re-handshake.

The Dolby Digital setting on the DVR messes with HDCP in such a way that the handshake isn't completed successfully. This does not happen when the audio is set to HDMI.

Here's my question: Would Time Warner ever consider disabling HDCP on individual boxes due to this problem? Do they even have that kind of control?

I did not get any response to my question above and am still confused about the HDMI audio and I still have several questions.

Why do you lose surround sound through the HDMI? I'm running the 8300 to my Denon AVR through HDMI only and have no trouble receiving Dolby digital.

When I switch the settings on the 8300 to Dolby Digital from HDMI it shuts off the audio through the HDMI and sends it (I assume to the optical out).

If I connected the AVR to the optical out would I receive better quality sound than through the HDMI?
post #180 of 441
Here's what's going on:

HDMI from DVR to TV
Optical from DVR to AVR

My TV can't pass through Dolby signals (despite what Samsung's website says). My AVR is not HDMI-capable.

So, when I've got it turned on to HDMI Audio in the DVR setup screen, it must be detecting that my TV can't handle the 5.1 pass through (at least via HDMI) and only pumps it through as PCM.

When I've got "Dolby Digital" selected in the DVR setup, it switches over to the optical output, shuts of audio to HDMI, and causes an HDCP problem.

The only thing I haven't tried yet is an HDMI to DVI adapter to use the DVI port in the back of my TV. I don't think it's my TV causing the problem, but if it is (because it may be confused that there is no audio coming over HDMI) then the DVI port should be fine since it is video only.

Although, I think I've read that others have tried this and there is still an HDCP problem in the signal from the box.

Does that make it a bit clearer?
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