Official Pioneer 4360/5060/Elite Experiences, Set-up, Questions & Pictures Thread!!! - Page 7

I doubt you will have a problem with HD Sports, since 95% of all HD Sports content is sent using 720p (progressive), so the plasma internal processor doesn't have to do the conversion from interlaced to prograssive. Plus they use telecast digital cameras and not film based cameras like holywood studios.

You should be A-OK.

Do you know for sure this is a factor. If so, it would mean upconversion and progressive scan DVD players would avoid the judder issue since deinterlacing is done in the player, not the TV. That would be good news.

That is an extremely poor analogy, since Lexus/Toyota even though its cheaper then Mercedes, is still #1 in the world for reliability and customer satisfaction while Benz just barely managed to make it to the top 5 in the US market. They have so many problems with electronics that they spend more time in the shop then on the road, at least the first year of each release for the last decade+.

I was really looking forward to the Fujitsu 40-series when they announced it last year. But after personally comparing the 42" and 50" to the pioneer elites and panny onyx in two B+M in NY city earlier this year. It was clear that the so called AVM-II is nothing special. In fact it shouldn't be advertised as the superior feature of the display.

It still doesn't know how to deal with SD signals and the HD signal even though gorgeous, still suffers from false contours and tiny (moss) green pixilation in the blacks! The way Fujitsu techs talked about the AVM-II you would think it is the best of the best. The new P50XTA50US "recently announced" should be about the same thing, since they haven't changed the internal processor, just swapped for the 8th gen Panny glass.
Even still I will definitely run into my local Harvey store to see it side by side with the new elites next month, I want to see if the new glass and maybe some AVM tweaks, made an improvement or if the AVM is still dragging them down.

BTW if you wonder why Fujitsu sold most of its PDP stake to Hitachi, they simply can't compete in the plasma markets. Their displays, even though expensive are not the best performers in the high end market place compared to runco, elite, vidikron etc, and definitely not affordable for the mainstream panny, samsung, dell.
So it makes you wonder what market niche are they making their displays for

But all that is just my opinion, and I never impose my opinion onto others, after all we are all free thinking people, right?
Or are we...

Correct.

If you set the DVD player to interlaced and let the internal "pioneer circuits" do the work, then I would think depending on content you would see the jaggies. But when all the deinterlacing is done through the DVD player all the work is done for the display, the only additional step is to convert 460p to 768p.

Nowhere near 95% of HD sports content is sent using progressive. CBS and NBC are 1080i -- period -- as is HDNet. The UHD sports is also 1080i as are some of the RSNs.

True that ESPN, ABC and FOX are in 720p, but, sorry, it's more like 50 / 50.

Great! Let me take it one step further. I use an upconversion player (Panny S77) and output 1080i through HDMI. When I did comparisons of 720p and 1080i, the latter gave better PQ. But I wasn't looking for motion, only color, shadow detail, sharpness, etc.

Even though 1080i is still interlaced, it's not 480i. Does the panel do deinterlacing in this case, and should I worry about motion artifacts here?

Actually, two steps further, now that I'm thinking about it... What about my cable box. It's a Motorola 6412 and can output at either 720p or 1080i, if I'm not mistaken. What would you advise here with regard to the motion issue.

Thanks for your insights.

Just traded BB my 5051 for the 5061. Since I have been able to enjoy the 5051 for almost a month now I will have direct black level comparisons, color comparisons, etc.

One thing that really really chaps my you-know-what is the stand!! You have to lay the plasma face down on the table to attach the stand!! Arghh!

Also, they talk about bracing the TV to the table with screws or using wires attached to the wall. Are they trying to say that the stand cannot hold the tv up on its own??

Anyway...

I'm really interested to hear what you think of the 5061. I bought a 5051 from BB as well when they had their clearance sale and I'm looking at doing the exchange also. Just trying to figure out if it is worth it. Probably the only complaint I have with the 5051 is seeing detail in the dark scenes. Normal brightness scenes look awesome. I'm hoping the 5061 will have better detail with dark scenes.

Let me refrase that then, my cable operator TWC NY provides FOX, NBC and ABC run at 720p (for sports, football baseball etc. Tennis matches were amazing this year). I can set my cable box to do only 1080i, but why do so.

1st part - All interlaced content is converted to progressive and then scaled to the native resolution of the plasma. So yes even 1080i will be deinterlaced and then scaled to 768p (native for 50" plasmas)

2nd part - I would run the cable box @ 720p for sports and fast motion content the rest I would run @ 1080i. Over time you will begin to notice which shows that you watch work best depending on the output selected.

Gene

Well I finally broke down and preordered the PDP-5060HD from TVA. After looking at the PDP-5061HD from BB. I was really impressed with the PQ, and I did get good WAF which makes a great combination.

I will now need to learn what DVDs to get to calibrate this baby when it arrives. (Something new for me to learn about now.)

Take Care,

Richard

First Thoughts when Comparing 5061 to the previous model 5051 -

First things that popped into my head while watching - WHERE IS MY DRE?? I loved what this did with the contrast on the 5051 and it is not there as an option on the 5061...slightly dissappointed here. Also, watching SD I noticed that it looks a bit different...I can't put my finger on it though...different scaler maybe??

1) It is immediately obvious that the blacks are a truer black on the 5061, no doubt about this at all. I went ahead and tested with the Steamboy, I, Robot and Dark City DVDs via HDMI @ 1080i. Steamboy had more depth to the picture due to the better black level as compared to watching this on the 5051 the other day. I, Robot looked brilliant just as it did on the 5051. I did notice that the night scenes did of course reach a truer black. Dark City was much improved!! I felt as though I was watching DC on a CRT again at times.

2) The color depth/saturation looks exactly the same b/w the 5051 and 5061...which is a major plus. The same "popping" colors are there that everyone refers to.

3) Stand seems flimsy and cheap compared to 5051 stand but it is no biggie

4) There is still a buzz but it is not as noticable as on the 5051 for some reason. I can hear it when I stick my head behind the set. I think the 5051 altered its buzz a lot more when you had contrasting images on-screen. The MR noise is pretty much non-existent, but I felt that the 5051 receiver was pretty noise free.

5) MR has a top black bezel instead of all silver (probably already knew this)

6) Not sure why yet but I have lost my ESPNHD that I was getting for "free" over regular extended basic cable service. With the 5051 I received this channel as 113.3, now the 5061 recognizes that there is a channel there but displays no image. I was able to view Dave Letterman in HD and it looked excellent of course. Skin tones looked good.. Once again the color reproduction is the same as the 5051.

Honestly though, if you feel very strongly about having blacker blacks...go with the 5061. Otherwise...I am not sure that there is much of a reason. I feel that the 5061 gives you more of a CRT-like experience in the area of black level.

I don't think they took DRE away from the 60 series. I think they just turned it on by default and deleted a way for you to turn it off.

Thanks for the review. Good to hear that the blacks are a lot deeper. What about the detail within dark scenes? I watched Lost last night with my 5051 and found that I just couldn't see as much detail in the dark scenes as on my CRT. Has that been improved?

I just ordered a 5060, the salesperson strongly recommended an extended warranty providing an additional 4 years in home service...what are your thoughts?


Steve

I would say no to an extended warranty. You are better off putting it on a CC that doubles the warranty.

thanks for the quick response... I charged it on my amex gold card which will give me one additional year warranty...is that enough?

That should be enough

Thans for the imput

has anyone wall mounted a 6G yet? Same mount as the 5G ?

D-Nice,

I put the 5060 from TVA on my AMEX, but I was wrestling with the Extended Warranty:

RepairMaster RMT45000 Warranty Plans

(The reason I was thinking of an Extended Warranty was of all the recommendations I have been reading in these forums.)

Any thoughts?

Richard

I confirmed that they were the same at CEDIA.

At the price they are offering, I can see why it is a tough call but I personally would not get it because if the plasma is going to fail, there is a much higher probability that it will do so in the first 1-2 years. Anything after that would probably be a defect in the parts and Pioneer would cover the replacement anyway. The only thing I can see really failing beyond 2 years would be the fan in the MR. You could probably put a new one in yourself. By placing the order on your AMEX, you have a free 2 year warranty.

Generally, the stand will hold the display up fine. Attaching to the table or wall is a safeguard in case of child or dog knocking into the display or in case of earthquake.

Another consideration is the falling price of plasmas. If today's $5000 plasma fails in three years. You could probably replace it with an equivalent for $2000 (or less). By then the displays that cost $5000 will be SED, 1080p, etc.

FWIW - Which isnt much.

According to Pioneer the 1130s "have just began to ship and will be available at retail towards the middle of October".

I questioned why it would take 3 weeks to reach the retail outlets and their response was "they are allocated across the nation and it is hard to tell when every store will have received the models so the store you purchased from could very easily have the product ready before the middle of October".

John

Does anyone know the dimensions of the 4360 with the speakers attached? Do the speakers come with the set or are they an option? Also, is the height dimension given mounted on the stand?

Do you see the same amount judder whether or not you are upscaling (720p/1080i)? If this is the case then I would avoid the Pios for this very reason.