Official 2005 Sony KDSR-50/60XBR1 SXRD Owner's Thread - Page 788

....Re: Crosstalk;

I was reading the review of the 55XBR929 in this months Sound & Vision and the author stated that he reduced/eliminated crosstalk on that set by enabling the Standard MotionFlow to "speed up the display" - I will try this tonight and report back - Has anyone else tried this trick?

Am I correct with this email address - SonyListens@am.Sony.com Thanks
Mrfixit58

I'm sorry to have read this. Perhaps your right about Sony sourcing different vendors for the same part.

When pulling on the fan, a slight resistance will be felt, but it shouldn't be like pulling teeth before the spline slides out.

Are you able to align and reinsert the fan onto the metal hub? Perhaps with a dab of super glue upon reinsertion could get it back in service.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. But with these particular fans that "settled stop" should be very subtle.

A properly functioning fan of this type will free spin for a good three seconds with a gentle (yet quick) finger poke. If it winds down any sooner than that, there is too much mechanical resistance and either needs lubing or is defective.

The tiny hump you are describing sounds more like a mechanical defect than the familiar magnetic stop.

How long will the fan spin if flicked with your finger? Shouldn't be much less than three seconds. If it wants to wind down right away, the new fan is bad as well.

However, do you realize that there are three other fans in your TV? There is a cylindrical to cool the OB, a small intake fan just to the right of the HDMI ports, and a horizontally placed duct fan positioned higher above the exhaust fan we've all been discussing.

If any one of those fans doesn't reach proper RPM at power up, the TV will shut down.

For my defective 60"XBR2 they offered me the 60NX720 for $1112 and the 55HX929 for $1010, I chose the XBR because of local dimming even though it's only 55". They received my papers last Friday and said my TV is being shipped out today.

So compare between mine and your offers for the 60NX720, I'd say it's a good deal after they deduct the cost of the lamp and the fan.

Thanks for the advice everyone. The magnetic resting place seems reasonable and plausible for what I am experiencing. And that would explain why my old fan exhibited the same effect. The fan spins fine after the tiny hump resistance is overcome and spins for awhile, so I don't really think their is anything wrong with the fan itself, which is ashame.

I do realize there are 3 fans total and I have cleaned the other 2 out. But I have always been able to turn the tv on by only playing with the large 120mm fan. I've watched the other 2 and they turn on with no problems.

I went ahead an ordered a new fan from a different vendor to see if maybe I received a bad one. I highly doubt it now, but for $40 it can't really hurt to try again.

Also, I had the same experience as Dysan911, when trying to pull off my old fan blades from the assy. The blades came off, but snapped at the point where the spline connects to the fan blades. so the spline was still inside the fan assy along with a small piece of plastic where it had attached to the fan blades. It's possible to be able to superglue it back together. I was able to grab the spline though and still remove it from the fan assy. I think that over the years, the fit became alittle tighter and the plastic connection of the spline and fan blades alittle more brittle and more prone to snap off as opposed to being removed properly from the fan assy. If you plan on trying this, be gentle and try multiple times, adding just alittle more pressure each time until it lets go. I was easily able to pull the new fan apart without any issues.

Thanks.

I must be going a little senile, thought there were four fans total. Within the service menu there are separate controls for four. It's been a few years since I've completely disassembled and vacuumed out the set and have long since lost the service manual. I'll take your word for it that there are only three.


You're right, plastic tends to degrade with heat and age, becoming more brittle and losing shear strength. Gentle yet firm tugging is the best method.

..Just remember to use one drop of mineral oil for lube. I've tried so many different products such as powdered graphite, liquid graphite, low viscosity PTFE grease, and BF CLP. None of them were able to bring the fan back to life except plain, cheap MO.


Welcome

How long should it take to get a response from Sony? I had previously spoken to them 2 or 3 months ago on the phone about my OB and then,kind of let the ball drop. Then as per forum rec. I emailed SonyListens@am.sony.com. Do they normally respond quickly or is it a be patient wait and see game? Thanks
Mrfixit

My memory served me correct the first time. There are 4 fans total. I'll provide a casual explanation for each.

#1 Lamp hot exhaust (the vertical 120mm which is usually the trouble maker)

#2 Lamp cool intake (positioned horizontally above the plastic air duct, to right of the ballast board)

#3 Cabinet ventilation (smallest one, just to the right of HDMI ports)

#4 OB fan (at bottom of cabinet, buried beneath ASU/DSU assembly)

I'll repeat it again: If even one of these fans is not up to snuff, TV will shut off shortly after power up. There is an RPM sensor in each of them. They are essentially modern PC fans. The TV constantly monitors every one simultaneously, and will not permit service without proper airflow.

How long before auto shutdown after prodding the exhaust fan, will the TV stay on indefinitely?

Temp sensors can go bad as well, either not relaying info at all, or flagging an incorrect high temp reading.

Just a quick update:

Got new fan in and still have the same issues, like I thought I would. It worked the first time I connected it and tried it a few times after that and it wouldn't start unless I was already spinning the fan prior to powering on the tv. I have major green blob issues though, so I'll probably look into the replacement program and see what I can get and for how much.

When you do correspond with sonylistens, don't forget to mention your expenditures for the fan replacement. They have been known to re-imburse. If it was me, I'd prolly wait until a TV and price has been set, then mention the fan and the fact that you would like the cost cut from the final bill.

Good luck!

Another thought. Try changing the "High Altitude" setting to *On*.

All that does is provide the fans with more voltage, of course causing them to spin a little quicker (option exists because halogen bulbs burn hotter at higher altitudes).

This will give the exhaust fan more incentive to spin up properly, and actually prolongs the life of the lamp.

General technical question to the tech-minded members of this forum: To anyone's knowlege, has anyone ever figured out how to directly edit the gamma matrix?

I'm not referring to simple calibration, but rather specific quadrant/zone editing of the gamma curve across the screen.

The Ruby front view projector (VPL-VW100), among other FVP models, has this feature through Sony's ImageDirector2 software. Is there a known procedure to emulate this within the service menu? Perhaps there is even a way to tap into the XBR1 service port using a modded RS-232 serial connection, and with any luck ID2 could be compatible?

Based on what I've stumbled upon within the service menu, I highly suspect that there is a way. Just can't quite piece together all the steps yet.

..Have been obsessed about this for years, it would be great if someone actually figured it out and would be willing to help the community.

With the PS3 will this set be able to do 1080p through one of its ports, or is it like a lot of other 1080p sets out now where the ports can't actually do 1080p?

Interesting. I was under the impression that they increased the fan speed in higher altitudes due to the air being thinner.

That's perfectly logical reasoning, I can see how one could think that way. What actually happens is that the electrical resistance of the pressurized gas (the mercury vapor encapsulated within the bulb rises with altitude). The ballast must supply more voltage to drive the arc, aka keep the lamp lit. So simply put: greater resistance requires more voltage which results in more heat. It's the same principle as to why plasma TVs run hotter at higher altitudes.

Tried that with HD component years ago. No can do, sorry. None of the HDMI or component inputs can accept 1080p.

I tried 1080p through the VGA input once with a 360, but got an "out of range" error..so scratch that option as well. I think that the best resolution the VGA input can do is 1280x1024, and you get a lousy black border as a bonus.

The only port on the XBR1 that can accept a 1080p signal is iLink (firewire). ...But it has to be in MPEG2 data transfer stream format (D-VHS, digital camcorders, some DVD recorders, HD tuners, etc.)

Hmmmmm, very interesting and it makes sense. I guess this dog isn't too old to learn a new trick.
Thanks!

Has the TV replacement program been cancelled? I was offered the KDL60EX720 yesterday, but wanted to see if i could get the NX model. I had no luck over the phone so today i decided to email back the person that originally responded to my request. His reply today was:

I am sorry, but I cannot offer that model, the program has been canceled only all previous offers within 7 days will be honored, no new offers can be made.

I tried going to the "I have a defective Sony TV" facebook page but it seems that it is gone??

That is a bad sign. The last post on that page is dated Oct 14. It looks as if the replacement program is coming to an end judging from your personal experience and the fb page no longer active. Take what they offered and be happy that you are one of the last.

I personally applaud Sony for doing the right thing and making good on a known defect, even though the statute of limitations ran out almost 2 years ago.

...also, 'thin air' has less oxygen, which the bulb doesn't 'breathe', so its more about flow at that pressure than content.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/339620512768/

Old page IS gone, this new one has taken its place. I see no indication that the program has been cancelled - Don't give up!

IMPORTANT NOTICE

I maintain the informational web site on Sony optical block and related problems with their 2002-2007 rear projection liquid crystal TVs. Sony had been running an "optical block program" for about 1-1/2 years in which owners of these failed TVs received discounts off newer direct-view LCD TVs in exchange for a legal release. This program was abruptly terminated today, and the "I Have A Defective Sony TV" Facebook page, with tens of thousands of customer posts, was turned off.

If you have a pending settlement with Sony for a failed optical block, you should probably try to resolve it quickly, as it is unknown whether Sony will be offering any future program. There is an alternative Facebook page called "I Still Have a Defective Sony TV" that can be used for general discussion/complaints.

That alternative "I Have a Defective Sony TV" page was set up a few years ago as a "group" page. That was done in response to Sony's actions to shut down the main "fan" page of the same name at that time. The main "fan" page continued, though. However, Sony later took over as administrator of the main fan page, and now they have shut it down and removed the tens of thousands of posts that were there. For future Facebook discussion of the issue, I would recommend the "I Still Have a Defective Sony TV" fan page, as it is more flexible than the group page.

If none of this made much sense, please blame Facebook.

Thank you for the update. Just my luck that right when I decided to participate in this program, the door was slammed in my face.

This latest move by 'them' doesn't suprise me in the slightest. Hopefully there will be some other means of compensation in the future for the many of us suckered into purchasing flawed SXRD based products.

Tri-State module is not someone I can recommend to do business with. When my optical block went out, I scrapped my TV out and contacted TSM to see if they were interested in buying the optical block so they could rebuild it and resell it. They replied yes and that they would give me $50 for it. I spent a good hour removing it from my TV, carefully packaging it, and mailing it to them. That was 5 months ago and I have still not received my money. I contacted them numerous times and would never get a reply back from them. I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and TSM keeps promising to pay me (only to satisfy the BBB), although they never have to date. I know its only $50, but is the principle that you should be able to trust a business such as this. Bad and unethical of them to treat a customer like this.

I'm having difficulty locating and extracting the details on the Fan #2 that you describe above in the Service Manual, either in images or parts list although I note it's signals in the schematics. Could you provide a little more than a 'casual description', please? I'm trying to identify and acquire the fans (and the lamp) before I begin disassembly in order to minimize downtime.

Brief history for anyone interested: KDS-R60XBR1 purchased Oct 2006 with OB warranty replacement in June, 2007, several lamp replacements and now attempting to preserve the unit as long as possible, so now considering wholesale fan replacement. Heavy use and much enjoyed over it's 5 year life-to-date with no recurrence (so far) of display discoloration since OB replacement.

Thanks KewlK(you're an excellent resource for us here)

P.S. How would the lamp resistivity (incl. vapor characteristics) be affected by altitude given that it's contained within an encapsulated, pressurized, sealed glass enclosure? i.e. How would the gas be aware of any change with altitude in either the ambient pressure outside its enclosure or the air density for that matter? I realize that effective cooling will require increased air flow (fan speed) to offset reduced density of the air with altitude, but I would have thought that mechanical heat transfer from the OB and electrical resistivity of the lamp would be unrelated due to the lamp's encapsulation.

+1^
I was thinkin the same thing as it does sort of defy the laws of physics unless there's something going on we are completely unaware of.

I didn't understand that either.....As long as the box was ridged, no change in outside pressure could effect the inside. Else, astronauts would be in serious doo-doo.