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The Official Stewart Film Screen thread. - Page 37

post #1081 of 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro View Post

My Firehawk SST has a gain of 1.1. This is not a high gain value. My throw ratio is at 1.79. So why am I still seeing the sparklie effect?

Because it uses a very high gain material to offset the gray added to the material. A Firehawk is much worse than a StudioTek in this respect.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #1082 of 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Because it uses a very high gain material to offset the gray added to the material. A Firehawk is much worse than a StudioTek in this respect.

It baffles me as to why my installer recommended the SST for matching with my Sony VW80 projector. Even Stewart said the SST is made for the Sony.

My brother is using a Grandview screen (about 1/3 the cost of my SST) and he is not seeing sheen or sparklies. But he also said the contrast and colors are not as good as my SST.
post #1083 of 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey P View Post

If we are talking about very bright projectors, then any screen with higher gain than 1 could probably shimmer. I though the FireHawk was best for not-so-bright projectors like my old Panny 2000u. It produced about the right level on my 10.5 ft screen. The ST-130 is not quite as bright, but I know someday I will get another projector anyway.

Probably what is happening to me, my RS25 is very bright and my room is not that big (about 16 x 18) with a low ceiling (< 8 feet). I'll adjust the iris down and report. Thanks.
post #1084 of 1855
I do indeed see the sparkly screen texture of my ST-130 screen sometimes. It is certainly more subtle than the Firehawk, but it's still there. I love the screen but this is the only issue that makes me wonder about going for a Stewart Snomatte material some day. (But as it is, I feel I need the gain the ST-130 provides).
post #1085 of 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I do indeed see the sparkly screen texture of my ST-130 screen sometimes. It is certainly more subtle than the Firehawk, but it's still there. I love the screen but this is the only issue that makes me wonder about going for a Stewart Snomatte material some day. (But as it is, I feel I need the gain the ST-130 provides).

Yes, the snomatte fabric (or the new ST 100?) seems very interesting. I wonder how "truly" dark the environment must be in order to use it. I have total light control at night in my basement but my walls and carpet are certainly not black (brown). I also wonder if the size of the room given the light thrown by the PJ is a factor or not.
post #1086 of 1855
Kuro, You have a slower fall-off than the G3, but the half-gain is still around 30 which can tend to hotspot depending on setup. If the shiny areas are more in the center, then it would support that theory. Try moving around, up and down too, and notice if/how the effect changes. Maybe your projector is just too bright?

Even though the ST-130 is at 1.3 gain, it looks very flat because the half- gain is only 68. So little chance of seeing any screen variation, though my projector is not that bright.
post #1087 of 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I do indeed see the sparkly screen texture of my ST-130 screen sometimes. It is certainly more subtle than the Firehawk, but it's still there. I love the screen but this is the only issue that makes me wonder about going for a Stewart Snomatte material some day. (But as it is, I feel I need the gain the ST-130 provides).

Rich,
I'm very surprised you see sparklies on the ST-130. What projector do you use and how close is it? I'm curious because someday I want to get a somewhat brighter projector. Thanks.
post #1088 of 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by KB1 View Post

Yes, the snomatte fabric (or the new ST 100?) seems very interesting. I wonder how "truly" dark the environment must be in order to use it. I have total light control at night in my basement but my walls and carpet are certainly not black (brown). I also wonder if the size of the room given the light thrown by the PJ is a factor or not.

It depends on how close the surfaces are and their reflectivity as to the extent if the problem. If you download the screen report linked to below you can see how dark the furnishings are in my room. This is what I would target. Screens with gain gain can help with thus, but they are not a free ride.
post #1089 of 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey P View Post

Rich,
I'm very surprised you see sparklies on the ST-130. What projector do you use and how close is it? I'm curious because someday I want to get a somewhat brighter projector. Thanks.

I'm between 10 and 11 feet away from my screen. I use the JVC RS20 at about 13.5 feet from the screen, with the projector just above the top of the screen height.

I've always been very sensitive to such artifacts and couldn't bear RPTVs due to the Silk Screen Effect (we don't hear much about that anymore with the decline of RPTV). I knew, given my sensitivity to these issues that I was rolling the dice a little bit in getting a screen with any gain. But I felt I needed the gain and the optical coating seemed pretty benign from the ST-130 samples I had.

Like pretty much every screen I've seen with an optical coating, I can sometimes see a sort of gritty, specular over-lay on the image, particularly in images with mostly bright areas. My perfect screen would not exhibit this behaviour, but of course most set ups involve compromise. When I saw my RS20 on a neutral gain screen I found myself wanting just a bit more brightness to the image, and the ST-130 definitely brought that too the table to a very satisfying degree. So, for now, I think I've made the best set of compromises, although one day I might look at the Snowmatte, especially if I end up with a brighter projector in the future.
post #1090 of 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

It depends on how close the surfaces are and their reflectivity as to the extent if the problem. If you download the screen report linked to below you can see how dark the furnishings are in my room. This is what I would target. Screens with gain gain can help with thus, but they are not a free ride.

Very informative report. "The shimmering caused by these elements was visible in brighter elements of images." ST130 quote is a perfect summary of what I see. Just like Rich, I'm probably very sensitive to it and I do see the shimmering overlay in brighter scenes. I have the iris on my RS25 at -7 right now, I'll try to bring it down to -11 and see what happens. I think I had it there initially and did not notice anything until I opened the iris to -7 weeks ago. Snomatte might be a good choice for me eventually, my ceiling is black and my furniture is dark brown (carpet is lighter though). Right side of room is dark blue velvet curtain and left side wall (brown) is far from the screen given the asymmetric nature of the room.
post #1091 of 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey P View Post

Kuro, You have a slower fall-off than the G3, but the half-gain is still around 30 which can tend to hotspot depending on setup. If the shiny areas are more in the center, then it would support that theory. Try moving around, up and down too, and notice if/how the effect changes. Maybe your projector is just too bright?

Carey,

I'm using the Sony VW80 PJ. And yes, the shiny/shimmering/sheen area is indeed in the center. If I sit on the sides, the shimmering effect in the center is somewhat reduced.

I'm sitting approx 13 ft away and the VW80 is mounted above my head and slightly behind. A wall is about 14" behind my head.

Do you think adjusting the iris manually to reduced the light output will reduce the shimmering effect significantly? I don't want to reduce the light too much, as I like the bright and saturated colors the Firehawk is giving me
post #1092 of 1855
I use Firehawk G3 in my living room. I have my projector mounted at 1.6x the image width for 2.35:1 when I zoom out to fill it and I do not have any issues with sparkles. In my theater, I use StudioTek 130, again no issues with sparkles. I am using a less bright projector in my dedicated, but even in my living room, at the shortest throw recommended, I do not have any issues. I was contemplating on going with StudioTek 100, but was concerned about crossreflection washing out my image and projector brightness, decided to go with StudioTek 130.

On my older 1st generation Firehawk screen, I did have a few sparkle issues and when I called Stewart was told to lightly dab at the sparkle with a lead pencil. This actually helped fix the problem until I was able to upgrade to G3.
post #1093 of 1855
I'm trying to decide which Stewart screen material is best for my setup. I'm trying to figure out if I should go with the Firehawk SST or the StudioTek 130.

I'm a bit confused on what ambient light may need to be controlled, and figure out what Stewart screen makes the most sense. I describe my setup below, but a simple way of asking this is whether, for purposes of picking a screen, I am focusing on the light at the screen, the light in at the seating position, light that is near the location of the projector, or if it's really about any light at all. (I have a feeling the answer is "all ambient light.") And I hope this post makes some sense without pictures.

I have a space that is about 27-28 feet long and about 20 feet wide. The movie/media space is really about 15 x 15 with a kitchen/bar space occupying the back 12-13 feet of the room. (The seating distance from the screen will be about 15 ft.) The left side of the movie/media space will have a floor to ceiling wall that comes out only 5 feet from the wall on which I will be placing the screen. The right side of the movie/media space will have floor to ceiling walls that run the entire 27-28 feet. There are no windows on the 27-28 foot wall. There are no windows in the kitchen/bar space behind the media/movie space. The only window is roughly 18 feet to the left of the screen and 8 feet behind the screen. And as noted earlier, the floor to ceiling wall on the left side of the media/movie space that comes out 5 feet provides further "protection" against any light that may come in through the window. The walls in the media/movie space will be painted a very dark color. I'm thinking a very dark red. The kitchen/bar area will probably be a lighter color than the movie/media space, but not light. I'm thinking of a gray color.

I am planning on using either an Optoma HD8200 or a JVC DLA-RS10 projector. I'm contemplating either a 120" or 110" screen.

I am planning on putting lights in this media/movie and kitchen/bar space on dimmers. Nevertheless, I'd like to be able to watch HD TV shows and sporting events with some ambient light. A great example would be if I had a Super Bowl party. The media/movie space might be kept a bit darker and the kitchen/bar space behind the media/movie space (separate by a 42" wall) a tad bit brighter (enough to see where people are and move around).

Does this mean that I need to go with a Firehawk screen that works better with ambient light? Or do you think I can still go with a Studiotek 130? I understand the additional advantages of a Firehawk screen in helping with blacks and color contrast. But I really, really like the viewing angle of the Studiotek 130.

I apologize for the long post without pictures, and I appreciate any feedback. Thank you.
post #1094 of 1855
I just visited a home theater store (Gramophone in Columbia, MD), and saw several setups using gray Stewart screens. Does anyone know if these were likely to be firehawks or greyhawks? (I.e. is it particularly common for stores to use one or the other for their displays?)

The reason I ask is I'm looking to get a screen and I really like the one I saw. The Projector Central review of the Firehawk turned me off to it quite a bit with its discussions of viewing angles and hotspots. I was worried that the picture on a firehawk would become almost unwatchable from wide angles, but it really seemed quite viewable on this screen. The hotspots were not especially noticeable or distracting as I had feared. (It also looked great with a fair amount of ambient light.) Thank you.
post #1095 of 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by sknoogleplex View Post

I just visited a home theater store (Gramophone in Columbia, MD), and saw several setups using gray Stewart screens. Does anyone know if these were likely to be firehawks or greyhawks? (I.e. is it particularly common for stores to use one or the other for their displays?)

The reason I ask is I'm looking to get a screen and I really like the one I saw. The Projector Central review of the Firehawk turned me off to it quite a bit with its discussions of viewing angles and hotspots. I was worried that the picture on a firehawk would become almost unwatchable from wide angles, but it really seemed quite viewable on this screen. The hotspots were not especially noticeable or distracting as I had feared. (It also looked great with a fair amount of ambient light.) Thank you.

Not sure how much this helps, but the home theater guys I use have a firehawk set up in their showroom. I'm guessing someone will just tell you to give the store a call and ask them what they have up, so I might as well.
post #1096 of 1855
Hey, I need a quick confirmation. I'll be locating my FH G3 soon, and I want to make sure Im using the right offset.

With the FH (angular reflective), you want the reflection off the center of the screen (yellow line in my photo) to be at eye level at the seated position, right?


http://www.pbase.com/image/121228735.bmp
post #1097 of 1855
Yes, that would make the screen center the brightest. You can also confirm this using my screen gain calculator linked below.
post #1098 of 1855
Got the FH screen up on Saturday, and wow!

Colors are deeper, bolder, and the image is more 3-D like.

Washout (with the lights on) has been greatly reduced (compared to when I projected on a beige wall). "Hot spots" and "sparkles" are non-issues. The biggest surprise is that reflected light (from the image on the screen) is practically nil. I thought I would have to paint my ceiling (which is beige too), but nope, it stays dark.

I am loving it!

Ok, but now I need to bitch. Mounting the "final assembly" was a big PITA. Aligning the screen, blindly, with the 4 bolts in the wall sucked. Also, the screw heads (that attach the mounting tabs to the frame) scratched the wall during the final installation. Stewart needs to switch to "easy" 45-deg mounting bar like everyone else (a-la Carada). Stewart's way is ridiculously stupid, especially at this quality (and price) level.

Of course, its done and installed now.





post #1099 of 1855
Great looking installation, Rob!
post #1100 of 1855
Thanks
post #1101 of 1855
I have narrowed the choice of projector between Panasonic AE4000 and Epson 8500UB; it appears to be a toss up.

My question is about appropriate screen for either. My setup will be in the basement (light controlled) and I am looking for a screen size of 92-100". I have visited 4 local stores here. Three of them said I should get a Stewart screen (e.g., Stewart 100" luxusdeluxe studiotek130) - saying these are the very best. The 4th store said while Stewart is top of line, it is an overkill for such a mid-range projector & that I could go with something cheaper in the $1000$1200 range (vs. $2300-2400 for Stewart). Your advice is appreciated.

Thank you.
post #1102 of 1855
I agree with the 4th store. Besides, a 92-100" is pretty small for front projection. You may well want a larger screen down the road, perhaps with your next projector.

You don't say what type of screen you prefer--manual pull down, electric, or fixed frame. We would need to know that to make a recommendation of any kind. If you aren't sure, check out my screen comparison linked below.
post #1103 of 1855
Can someone contact me regarding pricing of the ST130 screens?
post #1104 of 1855
Thanks. I am looking for fixed frame screen.
post #1105 of 1855
You might want to check out Carada.com. They sell only fixed frame screens through direct on-line sales and seem to be highly respected by most forum members here.
post #1106 of 1855
So, will the Firehawk help me, or am i just doomed forever... I actually took the plunge this week. Without actually having seen it in action. I've seen similar screens that strive for the same effect, but doesnt quite reach it, which is what just about everybody says. After that I've read, read and read some more. But putting half of of the cost of a Firehawk G3 for a copy that doesnt quite get there, when one is a quality junkie, no matter the circumstances, felt wrong, so... Yes, a 96" Firehawk G3 Tab tensioned motorized screen with 20" Top mask is ordered and on its way. And I cant wait to get my current cheap $150 grey screen out of the way. I always thought the new Panasonic AE4000 would lead to a new screen, just not a Firehawk G3. And i usually does my homework, and from what I've read about the Firehawk, that is what i need. And I think these images will show why. The living room is really a rather unsuitable home theater room in many ways.

And this illustrates my current problem. Reflected light from the screen itself that rebounds from the light walls. In the winter i can get it decently dark, and with a few modifications, I will be able to do that in the summer too. The largest problem is the white walls and i dont really have time for a full remodeling of the living room right now. Although this is an older image from my AX100 and is also a HDR-composite for the image within the frame, the reflextion in the frame at the right tells how the real image brightness is compared to the reflective light and how the camera sees it.




This is all the angels. The AE4000 will have about 2x throw range. All viewing will be from within +12º to -20º from center position and at a distance of 1,64x screen width.
post #1107 of 1855
Please report back when you get the FireHawk as to your impressions compared to what you've been using.
post #1108 of 1855
4 week delivery time and then i need to find a good way to mount it without drilling new holes. So it's still a while left. But even thought the ReAct i looked are supposed to be much worse, its still way better than the current. Although for $150 it is great. I knew it was a cheap shot, but it worked out. Although now several years later, it is starting to get abit wavy.

I'm also doing a comparison to an old-school silver pearl screen that is supposed to be used with slide projectors. So im gonna use that one to compare my current, then also as a reference for the stewart and take some photos.
post #1109 of 1855
I realize you don't want to remodel. But if you were to paint the ceiling dark gray you'd be happier.
post #1110 of 1855
It's not that I haven't thought about it. The problem is really that I dont really have anywhere to put the stuff in the living room while i remodel. Sure, one can do it around the couch and just cover it, but the walls, which has like two layers of weave and paint right now would need som real work. And that weave needs to come down do the bare concrete. And if i do something extensive like that, it would be a folly to leave the wooden floors alone, since they really need a good sanding and oiling because of age. So if i do remodel before i move, that will be an all or nothing thing. And since the hallway and dinner-room-part is connected in a single floor-space, its abit extensive.

Although I am redoing the kitchen later this spring, so I might just continue on. Although doing it properly would take at least a week if i do it myself. Or be quite costly if had somebody do it for me.

In the mean time, i hope the abilities of the Firehawk will get me some goodness. If not, I just might have to remodel as not to waste the fine screen I just bought
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