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The official Carada screen thread. - Page 44

post #1291 of 1362
I need some help understanding this article:

http://accucalhd.com/documents/accuc...een_report.pdf

I think I will call Carada and see if they can explain. Something seems really strange that their Classic Cinema White rates at .97 gain while the "Brilliant White" screen rates at only 1.03 gain. Isn't the "Brilliant White" going to be noticeably brighter than the Classic Cinema? If you read on page 9 "Test Conditions" it says this in paragraph 2:

"The Carada Classic Cinema White screen used in these tests is the screen installed in this theater. All other screen materials in these tests were samples from Da-Lite. Screen gain measurements could be influenced by the screen samples not being tensioned like the Carada. Multiple at-tempts were made to position the sample to keep the sample flat in the area being measured. All screen samples were taped to the Carada screen for measurement. Only one screen sample was used for each screen material tested. None of the samples appeared to be damaged."

If I put the "Brilliant White" next to the "Classic Cinema" then I shouldn't see a difference in brightness because according to this report there is only a 0.06 difference in on axis gain between them.

Check out this review:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/cara...16x9/index.php
Make note to read under "Screen Brightness"...

Let me know what you think.
Thanks.
post #1292 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrocDoc View Post

I need some help understanding this article:

http://accucalhd.com/documents/accuc...een_report.pdf

I think I will call Carada and see if they can explain. Something seems really strange that their Classic Cinema White rates at .97 gain while the "Brilliant White" screen rates at only 1.03 gain. Isn't the "Brilliant White" going to be noticeably brighter than the Classic Cinema? If you read on page 9 "Test Conditions" it says this in paragraph 2:

"The Carada Classic Cinema White screen used in these tests is the screen installed in this theater. All other screen materials in these tests were samples from Da-Lite. Screen gain measurements could be influenced by the screen samples not being tensioned like the Carada. Multiple at-tempts were made to position the sample to keep the sample flat in the area being measured. All screen samples were taped to the Carada screen for measurement. Only one screen sample was used for each screen material tested. None of the samples appeared to be damaged."

If I put the "Brilliant White" next to the "Classic Cinema" then I shouldn't see a difference in brightness because according to this report there is only a 0.06 difference in on axis gain between them.

Check out this review:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/cara...16x9/index.php
Make note to read under "Screen Brightness"...

Let me know what you think.
Thanks.

Per your link above...

Brilliant White
Quote:


This is not an accurate method of measure for several reasons, but the numbers yielded a gain of just under 1.3.
post #1293 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

Per your link above...

Brilliant White

Now you can see why I am confused. I don't think projectorreviews #'s were very accurate (as they say). But don't understand how the article (First Link) can say there is not really any difference between the CCS and the BW
post #1294 of 1362
i had a sample of the BW 1.4 from Carada and a sample from Elite's CineWhite 1.1 Gain and DID NOT NOTICE ANY DIFERENCE when projecting the same image on both samples side by side
post #1295 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by domingos38 View Post

i had a sample of the BW 1.4 from Carada and a sample from Elite's CineWhite 1.1 Gain and DID NOT NOTICE ANY DIFERENCE when projecting the same image on both samples side by side

This info helps answer the question. So it sounds like the BW is closer to 1.1 gain than 1.4...
post #1296 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrocDoc View Post

This info helps answer the question. So it sounds like the BW is closer to 1.1 gain than 1.4...

That seems to be the consensus of people who have measured it.
The Classic Cinema White still measures lower gain than the BW material.

I have samples of the CCW and the BW, and also a full screen of the BW material, and the BW material is noticeably brighter with projected images than the CCW. (Not a lot brighter, but noticeably to be sure).

The BW material is absolutely terrific screen material, easily one of my favorites, when used in the appropriate application (e.g. best in a light controlled room).
post #1297 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

That seems to be the consensus of people who have measured it.
The Classic Cinema White still measures lower gain than the BW material.

I have samples of the CCW and the BW, and also a full screen of the BW material, and the BW material is noticeably brighter with projected images than the CCW. (Not a lot brighter, but noticeably to be sure).

The BW material is absolutely terrific screen material, easily one of my favorites, when used in the appropriate application (e.g. best in a light controlled room).

I would expect the BW to be brighter than the CCW. It wouldn't be worth the price premium if it wasn't different. Curious, what screens did you compare the BW with before deciding on it? I have a light controlled basement and will be using the Epson 5010 and want the brightest 2D/3D I can get on a 126 16.9 at a 12 ½ ft throw. I really like Carada. Especially the customer service.
post #1298 of 1362
Hi all. Three somewhat related questions:

1) Screen Choice - I have had my 5010e projector running for a few weeks and am ready for a screen. I have a fully light controlled room (approx. 20 x 22), but not a "bat cave." White ceiling , dark blue walls on three sides and yellow on the front (was previously kids playroom). Throw distance is approx. 11 1/2 feet, with ceiling mount. I can not move the projector any further back, b/c the ceiling pitches down at a fairly extreme angle. I havent measured my viewing angle cone, but it is not extreme on either side. I have projector in eco mode and either normal or living room. I was considering a 102 inch Carada BW. Spoke to Rex at Carada today and he suggested I go with the Classic, as he felt the BW would be too bright at the cost of black level. It seems like a number of people in the Epson forum, have the Carada BW paired with this projector, although many have greater screen size and throw distance. I would appreciate any comments as to appropriate screen for my situation and specifically if anyone who has the BW in a similar set up is happy. I note that a number of reviews have reported that the BW is not actually 1.4 gain, so perhaps I should go with the BW and be done ?

2) Image Uniformity Issues - I am unable to get a properly justified 16:9 image. I know a few others have reported this problem and some were fixed by adjusting the level of the projector. I tried for over an hour and couldnt fix it. As noted above, I am currently projecting onto a painted paneled wall. Projector is ceiling mounted and I am using a fair amount of V&H lens shift. I have the peerless UNV geared ceiling mount. When I project an approx. 103 inch image (almost maxed out in size), my measurements are as follows: Height - 50 5/8 inches (left side), 49 5/8 inches (right side) & Length - 89 3/8 inches (bottom), 90 5/8 inches top. If I zoom out to max size I get the following measurements: 51 5/8 inches (left), 50 5/8 inches (right) & 91 1/2 inches (bottom), 92 7/8 inches (top). I am pulling my hair out trying to fix this ! Could someone please walk me through a possible fix. Could it be my wall ? If so, should I wait until I get my screen up and stop driving myself crazy now ? Although, if its the wall, wouldnt that carry through to the screen, unless I start using shims ? How do I determine if projector is precisely level, when ceiling mounted ? Also, as the projector surface does not appear entirely flat, where would I even lay the level ?

3) Question related to both of the above - Given the limitations on my projected image size and the image uniformity issues, I was considering the Carada 102" which has a viewing area of 88.9 inches by 50 inches. This way, I can be confident I wont end up being unable to fill the screen, although I might have overscan onto the frame. Does this approach make sense ?

Thanks as always to all for the great info !
post #1299 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by akrauss View Post

Hi all. Three somewhat related questions:

1) Screen Choice - I have had my 5010e projector running for a few weeks and am ready for a screen. I have a fully light controlled room (approx. 20 x 22), but not a "bat cave." White ceiling , dark blue walls on three sides and yellow on the front (was previously kids playroom). Throw distance is approx. 11 1/2 feet, with ceiling mount. I can not move the projector any further back, b/c the ceiling pitches down at a fairly extreme angle. I havent measured my viewing angle cone, but it is not extreme on either side. I have projector in eco mode and either normal or living room. I was considering a 102 inch Carada BW. Spoke to Rex at Carada today and he suggested I go with the Classic, as he felt the BW would be too bright at the cost of black level. It seems like a number of people in the Epson forum, have the Carada BW paired with this projector, although many have greater screen size and throw distance. I would appreciate any comments as to appropriate screen for my situation and specifically if anyone who has the BW in a similar set up is happy. I note that a number of reviews have reported that the BW is not actually 1.4 gain, so perhaps I should go with the BW and be done ?

2) Image Uniformity Issues - I am unable to get a properly justified 16:9 image. I know a few others have reported this problem and some were fixed by adjusting the level of the projector. I tried for over an hour and couldnt fix it. As noted above, I am currently projecting onto a painted paneled wall. Projector is ceiling mounted and I am using a fair amount of V&H lens shift. I have the peerless UNV geared ceiling mount. When I project an approx. 103 inch image (almost maxed out in size), my measurements are as follows: Height - 50 5/8 inches (left side), 49 5/8 inches (right side) & Length - 89 3/8 inches (bottom), 90 5/8 inches top. If I zoom out to max size I get the following measurements: 51 5/8 inches (left), 50 5/8 inches (right) & 91 1/2 inches (bottom), 92 7/8 inches (top). I am pulling my hair out trying to fix this ! Could someone please walk me through a possible fix. Could it be my wall ? If so, should I wait until I get my screen up and stop driving myself crazy now ? Although, if its the wall, wouldnt that carry through to the screen, unless I start using shims ? How do I determine if projector is precisely level, when ceiling mounted ? Also, as the projector surface does not appear entirely flat, where would I even lay the level ?

3) Question related to both of the above - Given the limitations on my projected image size and the image uniformity issues, I was considering the Carada 102" which has a viewing area of 88.9 inches by 50 inches. This way, I can be confident I wont end up being unable to fill the screen, although I might have overscan onto the frame. Does this approach make sense ?

Thanks as always to all for the great info !

I got my 5010E mount installed and leveled (torpedo level works great for this) and I will be able to fit a 126" screen just like I wanted to with my 12 ½ ft throw. I am projecting onto a dark khaki wall and it actually has great contrast. It is real close to the dark gray cinema screen material that Carada sent me. I taped up the samples from Da-Lite and Carada at the same time so I could see the difference between them side by side. Here are my impressions so far:

I had it on Cinema (Eco) and the iris set to fast:

Da-Lite Cinema Vision 1.3 gain- It has less gain then the Carada Classic Cinema White (1.0 gain) I didn't care for it at all.

Da-Lite HP 2.4 gain- This reminds me of a reflector, it will reflect light only when the light and your eye are at just the right level. This was real bright when the projector was sitting on a table, but once I mounted it from the ceiling I couldn't tell the difference between it and the Carada Brilliant White.

Carada Brilliant White 1.4 gain- This was really bright and made any light that hit it look bright and was really close to the HP material. My wife who knows nothing about this stuff picked this screen material as the one she liked the most. She compared it to our LCD TV.

Carada Classic Cinema White 1.0 gain- This material surprised me a lot. It was bright, but not too bright. In several scenes this looked no different than the BW, but if a "sun" in a scene shot onto it and the BW the BW was brighter by a little bit. The thing that surprised me the most about this material is the contrast. On dark scenes it was a little bit darker then the BW. If a scene like space was on the black level was just blacker then on the BW. The BW raises the brightness and the black level equally. This is where it was really hard for me to decide between these two.

The projector is new so as it gets dimmer it will be nice to have that little bit of extra brightness of the BW, but I also enjoyed the darker blacks with the CCW.
I tried 3D with the Epson glasses and the BW had the edge in a little brighter picture and seemed to have more depth to it. At different viewing angles the BW held the brightness better than the CCW IMO.

IMO, I would get the biggest screen you can fit and have room for a little over scan so that you don't end up with a white frame around your picture. To make sure your projector is square with your screen wall use a tape measure and measure from the top left corner from the screen to the projector lens and do the same for the right. The two measurements should match if it is square.

Also worth noting is Carada's customer service. I called and spoke with Rex for 30 min and he was most helpful and knowledgeable and answered all of my questions.

When I called Da-Lite to get screen samples, I was on the phone for 3 minutes, long enough to tell him what I wanted and my address. The guy sounded like he was having a bad day and seem bothered to even talk to me. I know everyone will have different experiences, but to me this left a bad taste in my mouth for Da-Lite. (I didn't let this experience sway my decision on which screen I liked better either)

I have a convergence (pixel alignment) issue with my 5010e and Epson is going to send me a new one, but the 5010e's are on back-order. Hopefully you don't have the same issue as me with yours.

No worries about your screen taking on the shape of your wall. The screen will stay true (flat) as it is rigid and hangs on very stiff support brackets that screw into studs.

I would say stick with your option #3 for safety sake.
I hope this helps.
post #1300 of 1362
Hey Guys! Just got a JVC rs45 and am trying to decide between the critereon CCW 2.35 120" or BW. Any help is apreiciated. I plan mostly 2D movies in a very dark room, Ill also be zooming since i dont have an anamorphic lens
post #1301 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLP92SUCAZ View Post

Hey Guys! Just got a JVC rs45 and am trying to decide between the critereon CCW 2.35 120" or BW. Any help is apreiciated. I plan mostly 2D movies in a very dark room, Ill also be zooming since i dont have an anamorphic lens

I have had both and prefer the BW because of the little extra gain.
post #1302 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I have had both and prefer the BW because of the little extra gain.

Thanks, What Projector do you have?
post #1303 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrocDoc View Post

Carada Brilliant White 1.4 gain- This was really bright and made any light that hit it look bright and was really close to the HP material. My wife who knows nothing about this stuff picked this screen material as the one she liked the most. She compared it to our LCD TV.

Just so folks aren't mislead here: The Carada BW material is nowhere near the gain of the HP material. The HP material is supposed to be used with the projector more level with the screen to realise it's gain, which is why most people would buy a high gain screen like the HP. In the conditions it's normally used, the HP screen will be MUCH brighter, not even close (I've had both). I know you said you weren't using the HP as it's normally meant to be used, but some reading may not know the implications, given your comparison with the Carada material.

That's not to say either is "better" since it depends upon what someone is trying to achieve in their set up. I can like the HP for it's "wow" brightness sometimes, and I love the Carada BW for giving deeper black levels than the HP (given the same projector brightness) and much wider, more even viewing angles. (If I had to choose either screen to live with, personally I'd choose the Carada because I love it's smooth, even image/viewing angles, but that's me).

Depends what you want.
post #1304 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrocDoc View Post

Da-Lite HP 2.4 gain- This reminds me of a reflector, it will reflect light only when the light and your eye are at just the right level. This was real bright when the projector was sitting on a table, but once I mounted it from the ceiling I couldn't tell the difference between it and the Carada Brilliant White.

I think what I wrote got taken out of context. When the projector was sitting on the table at eye level the HP material was like a reflector and was considerably brighter than the BW. When using the HP material it is meant to be used with the projector at eye level. When the projector was mounted on the ceiling with the HP and BW samples next to each other I couldn't tell a difference in brightness between the two.
post #1305 of 1362
Just ordered my 2.35 BW 120"! Cant Wait
post #1306 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLP92SUCAZ View Post

Just ordered my 2.35 BW 120"! Cant Wait

Great! Let us know what you think when you get it put up.
post #1307 of 1362
Is there a reason why more people don't talk about the 1.0 Classic Cinema White material? Especially for black levels and viewing angles.
post #1308 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLP92SUCAZ View Post

Just ordered my 2.35 BW 120"! Cant Wait

welcome to the club
post #1309 of 1362
I wonder how bright a Mitsu 6800 may look when projecting to a 124 in diagonal screen? I am thinking Carada Brilliant white, 1.4 gain, 2.35:1...PJ at 14-15 ft. from screen... Planning on using Mitsh HC6800 PJ CIH capabilities.

Currently own the HC6800 with an Elite Sliverframe 100GH1, 16:9, 100 in diag., 1.8 gain, from short throw of about 10 ft., 1400 hrs on low lamp, but considering upgrade to a JVC HD-100 (RS-2) or HD-550 (RS-15), low lamp, low hrs.

Anyone with any of these/similar arrangements?

How many FtL image brightness could I expect? Could I expect a big drop in brightness from my current setup? I would not like a too dim image...

thks in advance
post #1310 of 1362
I own an Epson 5010 and a Carada Criterion Series 134in B/W screen for about two weeks now. My 5010 is about 17ft from my screen. I love the screen and the customer service is excellent. As I stated in the 5010 thread I am thinking about swapping the b/w for the classic white or getting a masking system. I watch movies on the "Livingroom mode" which is 2nd to the brightest mode because I love a bright image with good color accuracy.
My discretion is the blacks. The black level when watching a movie is amazing but the bars on top and bottom aren't as dark and noticable.
post #1311 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedg8gt View Post

I own an Epson 5010 and a Carada Criterion Series 134in B/W screen for about two weeks now. My 5010 is about 17ft from my screen. I love the screen and the customer service is excellent. As I stated in the 5010 thread I am thinking about swapping the b/w for the classic white or getting a masking system. I watch movies on the "Livingroom mode" which is 2nd to the brightest mode because I love a bright image with good color accuracy.
My discretion is the blacks. The black level when watching a movie is amazing but the bars on top and bottom aren't as dark and noticable.

I say get a cinemascope screen. I have a da lite HP screen and I didn't like it at all. The bars looked too gray because of my 16:9 screen. So, I got a got a SI neutral screen, Gamma 4K screen. Since my HP screen was a pull down, I just pulled it down to the cinemascope height, and it looked amazing without the bars. It made the blacks look great with the bright images. It made a world of difference by having a cinemascope screen compared to a 16:9 screen.

I have a Carada CW screen in my room and my SI Gamma 4K screen, which is in my theater room. My SI screen retails for $2500, which is 1/3 less than Carada and I must say, its no difference. I got my SI screen for free from a friend, so I wasn't out any money. In your situation, I would keep the BW. The extra gain always help
post #1312 of 1362
I will be ordering my Carada 112" BW Criterion - 2.35 to 1 next week. It will be paired up with the Panny AE4000U. I am going with the BW over the CCW because my throw will be about 16' and I need the extra gain.

Thanks to all of you on this thread and over on the Monoprice Screen thread. Between the extra gain and all of you talking about the WONDERFUL customer service from Carada, it has really helped me to feel at ease about paying a little bit more for the Carada.

Thanks again,
Scott
post #1313 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariokrt64 View Post

I wonder how bright a Mitsu 6800 may look when projecting to a 124 in diagonal screen? I am thinking Carada Brilliant white, 1.4 gain, 2.35:1...PJ at 14-15 ft. from screen... Planning on using Mitsh HC6800 PJ CIH capabilities.

Currently own the HC6800 with an Elite Sliverframe 100GH1, 16:9, 100 in diag., 1.8 gain, from short throw of about 10 ft., 1400 hrs on low lamp, but considering upgrade to a JVC HD-100 (RS-2) or HD-550 (RS-15), low lamp, low hrs.

Anyone with any of these/similar arrangements?

How many FtL image brightness could I expect? Could I expect a big drop in brightness from my current setup? I would not like a too dim image...

thks in advance

I don't know the specs on the Mitsu 6800 but I run the RS15 and a Carada 126inch BW 16:9 in a
Iight controlled HT (13.5 foot throw distance). I have not had nor have the means to measure the current FtL yet with nearing 1000 hours on the lamp, I still only use normal mode and the picture still shocks me at times on its brightness. The BW and the RS15 go well together.
- Just an opinion for ya - sorry can't provide any substantiating numbers etc.. :-)
post #1314 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

I don't know the specs on the Mitsu 6800 but I run the RS15 and a Carada 126inch BW 16:9 in a
Iight controlled HT (13.5 foot throw distance). I have not had nor have the means to measure the current FtL yet with nearing 1000 hours on the lamp, I still only use normal mode and the picture still shocks me at times on its brightness. The BW and the RS15 go well together.
- Just an opinion for ya - sorry can't provide any substantiating numbers etc.. :-)

Thanks...I guess it would be a step-up from my current Mitsu HC6800..much better contrast wich is one of the weakness of the Mitsu..otherwise very sharp, bright, nice PJ...Happy to hear the Carada will be an excellent match for the JVC...Let see how it goes and if I finally decide to pull the plug...on both..hopefully....

BTW..have you heared about problems with the RS-15/HD-550...I have read complaints about pink lines, etc.....would appreciatte your input....

thanks....
post #1315 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariokrt64 View Post


Thanks...I guess it would be a step-up from my current Mitsu HC6800..much better contrast wich is one of the weakness of the Mitsu..otherwise very sharp, bright, nice PJ...Happy to hear the Carada will be an excellent match for the JVC...Let see how it goes and if I finally decide to pull the plug...on both..hopefully....

BTW..have you heared about problems with the RS-15/HD-550...I have read complaints about pink lines, etc.....would appreciatte your input....

thanks....

Yes, I have read about / the several folks posting on the pink line issues on the 15/550. Not a huge amount yet the few that have make you nervous. Sounds like most issues spawn at about 2 years old and 1500-2000ish hrs on the unit. As mentioned, I'm just under 1000 hrs and the unit is 28 months old. Other than cleaning the bulb housing and prism - and fan filter mine has been worry free. I do have it on a current regulator, conditioner and UPS. Have no idea if that has helped or not but I guess I'll have to wait until I get more hours on the unit to see if mine is one of those affected etc. It's not like you get 100s of google hits on the issue thus I hope it's very isolated. I was really hoping/expecting the RS-15 to last me a good 5 years or until LED PJs were the next upgrade etc.
post #1316 of 1362
I asked before, but I thought I'd ask once more. I opted for the CCW material @ 96" because my projector puts out ample lumens, and I want a wide viewing angle with true colors and no hot spots.

Are Carada fans going with the brilliant white because of screen size, or is there another reason I seem to be noticing more BW customers than CCW?
post #1317 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ View Post

Are Carada fans going with the brilliant white because of screen size, or is there another reason I seem to be noticing more BW customers than CCW?

Going with BW only because of my long through distance. I need just a little bit more gain to make sure my image is not too dim.
post #1318 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ View Post

I asked before, but I thought I'd ask once more. I opted for the CCW material @ 96" because my projector puts out ample lumens, and I want a wide viewing angle with true colors and no hot spots.

Are Carada fans going with the brilliant white because of screen size, or is there another reason I seem to be noticing more BW customers than CCW?

My choice was based of both screen size and knowing PJ bulbs "dim" as they age. From new to about 700 hrs on my RS15 I ran normal power and a medium Aperture setting to control any exces brightness. Today, near 1000 hrs I still use normal vs high on the bulb power yet have had to bump the Aperture to full open/bright for some viewing. The RS15 bulb is said to have a 3000 hr life yet realistically is probably more like 2000-2500. I've read where many PJ owners end up running high power bulb settings from mid to end of the bulbs life to achieve a given brightness. Obviously high power also decreases a bulbs life - thus for me a tad bit of gain increase in the screen was also good for possibly extending bulb life etc.

Cheers
post #1319 of 1362
What about sharpness? Would you loose too much image sharpness while going to such a large screen (from my current 100 in diag.)?
post #1320 of 1362
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariokrt64 View Post

What about sharpness? Would you loose too much image sharpness while going to such a large screen (from my current 100 in diag.)?

depends on your seating distance....most of the time, with the resolution of today's pj's, you would have to throw a pretty big image to lose 'apparent' sharpness to one's eye. Of course a 60" screen size will appear to be sharper, but it's only 60" I've seen a lot of people going with a 150" with no complaints, although I wouldn't go that big...I have a 115" 2.40 Carada at a 12ft seating distance....still very immersive with no noticeable drop in sharpness (I'm doing the zoom method).
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