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The official Carada screen thread. - Page 47

post #1381 of 1421
Vince, your main penalty at that size will be in brightness, especially for the JVCs. How far are your seats from the screen? At 13' seating distance, my 128" screen looks huge, almost too big. I'm replacing it with a 120" inch Carada when my HW55 gets here this week. That's another thing to consider, will your 156" screen be too big for your next projector? My new projector 's maximum image size is 6" narrower than my old projector, hence the new screen. It's not a huge loss since my old screen cost me $50 to make, but I want my Carada setup to last me for the next 10-20 years.
post #1382 of 1421
Better/shorter answer:

Your screen size affects brightness, and the field of view (angle). Smaller images are brighter and sharper, but have a smaller field of view. So it's always a trade off . If you can get a 40 degree viewing angle and over 16 foot-lamberts, you'll be in great shape. Personally, I'd sacrifice viewing angle before brightness, since I want my lamp to be usable for as long as possible.
post #1383 of 1421
John,

I am in the process of buying a piece of land and I designed a custom built house in Chief Architect as an amateur. When I meet with the CAD pro in a few weeks, he will turn my house drawing into real build-able drawings. They are asking me how big I want the dedicated media room?

40 degree viewing angle and over 16 foot-lamberts that was the kind of info I was looking for.

Thanks Vince
post #1384 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

John,

40 degree viewing angle and over 16 foot-lamberts that was the kind of info I was looking for.

Thanks Vince

16 foot-lamberts is a minimum; if you care about 3D, 25-30 is probably a better target. You may also need this formula:

  • Luminance (in foot-lamberts) = ("best mode" lumens / image area in square feet) * (screen gain) * ("bulb aging factor")

I use .70 as my "bulb aging factor" so I can maintain target brightness for longer, and start the new bulb in eco mode. Using my planned 2.35 120" screen as an example,

  • Luminance for 2.35 content = (944/[(110.4" * 62")/144]) * 1.1 * .7 = 15.29 foot-lamberts

When I'm watching 16:9 content, I'll shrink the image down, giving me more luminance:

  • Luminance for 16:9 content = (944/[(83.7" * 47")/144]) * 1.1 * .7 = 26.6 foot-lamberts

This is somewhat conservative, since I'll watch most 16:9 content using normal bulb mode. Anyway, I hope this helps.
post #1385 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schlarb View Post

16 foot-lamberts is a minimum; if you care about 3D, 25-30 is probably a better target. You may also need this formula:

  • Luminance (in foot-lamberts) = ("best mode" lumens / image area in square feet) * (screen gain) * ("bulb aging factor")

I use .70 as my "bulb aging factor" so I can maintain target brightness for longer, and start the new bulb in eco mode. Using my planned 2.35 120" screen as an example,

  • Luminance for 2.35 content = (944/[(110.4" * 62")/144]) * 1.1 * .7 = 15.29 foot-lamberts

When I'm watching 16:9 content, I'll shrink the image down, giving me more luminance:

  • Luminance for 16:9 content = (944/[(83.7" * 47")/144]) * 1.1 * .7 = 26.6 foot-lamberts

This is somewhat conservative, since I'll watch most 16:9 content using normal bulb mode. Anyway, I hope this helps.

I think your numbers are wrong for the 120" 2.35:1 that you plugged in. My 120" 2.35:1 is only 46" high, you are plugging in 62". Never mind, you must mean 120" wide future screen which at 2.35:1 is likely 62" high. That is a lot of screen to light
up with only 1.1 gain, 2D will max that out for sure, forget 3D .
post #1386 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

I think your numbers are wrong for the 120" 2.35:1 that you plugged in. My 120" 2.35:1 is only 46" high, you are plugging in 62". Never mind, you must mean 120" wide future screen which at 2.35:1 is likely 62" high. That is a lot of screen to light
up with only 1.1 gain, 2D will max that out for sure, forget 3D .

I thought someone might say that. Luminance is based on the image size, not the screen size. Since I'm using the "zoom method" for my CIH setup rather than an anamorphic lens, I'll project a 110.4"x62" image on my 110.4x47" screen. I have black velvet bars to catch the light on the top and the bottom. If you're using an A-lens, you can use screen size to calculate luminance since all of the image will be viewed.

BTW, has anyone compared Carada's "black hole" material to black velvet? I hope it's as effective at absorbing light.
post #1387 of 1421
John-

Thanks for the math behind screen projection, I will play with the numbers.

What I'm after is the largest screen I can have with a $10K budget projector, that produces a beautiful (not dim) 1080p bluray Image in 2D, and a very good 3D image in a 27 FT long bat cave. From the limited homework I have done, it appears Carada is a best value vs Stewart crew.

If 128" DIAG is the edge of high quality...so be it, but if 145" or 152" is possible in a bat cave...I'll take it!

Thanks Vince
post #1388 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

John-

Thanks for the math behind screen projection, I will play with the numbers.

What I'm after is the largest screen I can have with a $10K budget projector, that produces a beautiful (not dim) 1080p bluray Image in 2D, and a very good 3D image in a 27 FT long bat cave. From the limited homework I have done, it appears Carada is a best value vs Stewart crew.

If 128" DIAG is the edge of high quality...so be it, but if 145" or 152" is possible in a bat cave...I'll take it!

Thanks Vince

I have the Sony 500ES and the calibrated lumens are in the 1650 range, really high. With my 120" 2.35:1 Solar 4K 1.37 gain white screen 2D is a non issue, could easily light up a 145" screen of the same gain. 3D on this same screen in full scope is nice but still not quite brigt enough
so 145" unless you stack two projectors will not do well for 3D. Using a anamorphic lens I regain 30% of the light and this improves the 3D to an acceptable level . You'll want the HP 2.4 for 3D and 145" diagonal screen.
post #1389 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

I have the Sony 500ES and the calibrated lumens are in the 1650 range, really high. With my 120" 2.35:1 Solar 4K 1.37 gain white screen 2D is a non issue, could easily light up a 145" screen of the same gain. 3D on this same screen in full scope is nice but still not quite brigt enough
so 145" unless you stack two projectors will not do well for 3D. Using a anamorphic lens I regain 30% of the light and this improves the 3D to an acceptable level . You'll want the HP 2.4 for 3D and 145" diagonal screen.

Roxie-

Thanks for the reality check

Vince
post #1390 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

Roxie-

Thanks for the reality check

Vince

No problem, nothing worst than paying a small fortune for equipment only to be disappointed. 2.4 HP is a great product and works really well if used right and the viewing cone is acceptable. I'm considering it for myself too
for a larger primary screen or secondary, haven't figured it all out yet.
post #1391 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schlarb View Post



BTW, has anyone compared Carada's "black hole" material to black velvet? I hope it's as effective at absorbing light.

The material is truly a "Black Hole" ... it is velvet like, yet has no sheen with light ..
post #1392 of 1421
My screen came yesterday; I was really surprised since I expected it to take weeks, not days! I put together the frame in about 30 minutes, and will hang it tonight. I'm really happy with my decision so far. My time is worth something, and 2 days spent making a DIY screen (with border) is not worth it. The Carada is really nice. I've used a DIY blackout cloth screen on a wooden frame for the last 4 years. This worked OK, but it's gotten a bit ragged. I'll still use it for outdoor showings when the weather's nice.
post #1393 of 1421
Here's my mini-review...

Summary

This screen is well worth the price, and a very nice product. Shipping was fast and assembly is very easy. Installation is pretty simple unless you have a wavy wall. If haven't done basic carpentry before, you may want to hire someone to mount it.

Background

I'm an avid DIY-er. I built my last 2.35 AR 128" screen for about $60 in 2009, using 1x4s and blackout cloth. This was always meant to be temporary. I just didn't want to commit to a $1k screen until I was sure of the 2.35 setup. But as time went by I decided it was "good enough". What made me move to a new screen was my new Sony VPL-HW55 projector. Its largest image was about 8" smaller than my screen. So my choices were (a) build a new 120" screen, or (b) buy a new 120" screen. We'd just spent $$$ on painting and new carpet upstairs, so my wife didn't blink when I said it was time for a professional-quality screen. She also hates it when I take on a large DIY project, because I can get grumpy. smile.gif

Shipping

I was really impressed with both the speed of the delivery (under 5 days) and the care taken with the packaging. The 2 pairs of white gloves they included also surprised me. This is a very thoughtful company.

Installation

Assembling the frame was really simple. I had it unpacked and screwed together in less than an hour. Mounting the frame was another story. My wall is really wavy, so I knew I'd need to shim out the frame. No shims were included, so I made some out of scrap hardboard with my table saw:



I used double-sided tape to attach the shims near the mounting holes. The result is ugly but solid, and it's hidden by the screen anyway. As an aside, I highly recommend this brick-red color. My family hated the flat black that I laid down as a base coat, but they like this color. It's dark enough to be non-reflective. I used Sherwin-WIlliams Emerald in a matte finish, but the color is Behr's "Chipotle Spice".



Hanging the top bracket was easy. I have a level ceiling, so I just measured down 21" from the molding in 3 places, and drew a line with pencil. The bottom bracket was a little harder. I installed it according to the instructions, but it was too high. It took a few tries to get the distance from the top bracket just right, so that the frame "snapped into place".

With the hard part done (mounting the brackets), I popped the frame off the wall, snapped on the screen and put it back on he wall. This part only took about 15 minutes.

Overall, the installation took me 3-4 hours. Not bad at all.

The Impression

My family and I really like the way this screen looks. I had black velvet masking before, but it was pretty obvious that it was DIY. The Carada is very classy-looking. The Criterion frame is a no-brainer; the beveled masking looks fantastic. I like that I can wipe off the screen if it gets dusty or there's an accident. I couldn't do this with my BO cloth screen, so it was ready to be retired after 4 years of service.





Image Quality

I have a Pioneer Kuro plasma upstairs, and black level is more important to me than brightness. Carada's Cinema White is a bit brighter than the blackout cloth, and the black levels are just a touch more gray. Overall, the Carada CCW produced a very nice picture, with no hot spots regardless of how bright the content was. Something between HCG and CCW would have been better, but I'm still very happy with the picture. I'm sure that as my bulb ages, I'll appreciate the extra gain.

The masking material is thinner than black velvet, but performs just as well for blocking reflections. The new Sony HW55 is 4 times brighter than my old PT-AE3000, so I do see 90-100IRE video reflected back from the masking now (as well as from my old black velvet). This only comes into play with 2.40 content. I used to fill the screen vertically, and let a few inches of the image fall to either side. With the Sony, I am now filling the screen horizontally and leaving very thin black bars on the top and bottom. With my new dark walls, I don't get much reflection back to the screen, so this looks fine. Here are some screenshots from "Big Buck Bunny" and "Where the Wild Things Are". These are iPhone 5S pics, so ignore the blurriness. The images looked amazing in person.









Some Advice

If you can, wait until your projector is mounted before you order your screen. Measuring my luminance with a $40 light meter helped me decide what screen gain to order. I'm getting 18 fL in Reference mode with a 110" wide image and the lamp set to "Low". Other modes are even brighter. This gave me the confidence to order a unity-gain screen. As the bulb ages, I'll switch the lamp over to high to maintain brightness. Obviously another benefit of getting the projector first is that you can confirm that the image size will work.
Edited by John Schlarb - 1/12/14 at 8:02pm
post #1394 of 1421
^^^^ I don't think that on this thread you'll find many that slam Carada .. as an owner for many years, I believe they are the Cadillac of the screen biz .. although there are Bentley and Rolls Royce brands as well ..

And the Masquerade system is brilliant and a low cost solution ..

http://www.carada.com/masquerade-masking-system.aspx

and "Made in the USA" means a lot as well ..
post #1395 of 1421
post #1396 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

^^^^ I don't think that on this thread you'll find many that slam Carada .. as an owner for many years, I believe they are the Cadillac of the screen biz .. although there are Bentley and Rolls Royce brands as well ..

And the Masquerade system is brilliant and a low cost solution ..

http://www.carada.com/masquerade-masking-system.aspx

and "Made in the USA" means a lot as well ..

I guess relative to other automated systems, it's somewhat low cost. And it definitely grabs my attention. But $2800 for my 118" Carada screen isn't low cost to me. I use a manual system (described in the DIY section) that does a fine job for a lot less. I suppose the Masquerade would have to be in the $1,500 range for me to seriously consider buying one. So it looks like I'll not be getting one anytime soon! frown.gif
Edited by Jive Turkey - 1/13/14 at 5:10pm
post #1397 of 1421
I recently ordered a 114" 16:9 Criterion screen in brilliant white from Craig @AVS which just arrived and looks great! Unfortunately there was a small gouge in the black felt which exposed the aluminum frame (probably happened in shipping) but Craig had Carada ship out a new side rail on the same day I mentioned it. The frame is very sturdy and looks professional, overall very happy with the purchase.
post #1398 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schlarb View Post

My screen came yesterday; I was really surprised since I expected it to take weeks, not days! I put together the frame in about 30 minutes, and will hang it tonight. I'm really happy with my decision so far. My time is worth something, and 2 days spent making a DIY screen (with border) is not worth it. The Carada is really nice. I've used a DIY blackout cloth screen on a wooden frame for the last 4 years. This worked OK, but it's gotten a bit ragged. I'll still use it for outdoor showings when the weather's nice.

John, I wanted to ask if you mean that the black level with the Carada Cinema White is inferior to that of black-out cloth? I am in the same situation, using a 110 diag, 1:78 aspect home-made black-out screen. I want to get a Carada, but not sure whether to order CW or BW. Being relatively new to projection, am I correct in assuming that the black levels of the Brilliant White wouldn't be quite as good as the Cinema White, and less than the black out cloth?
By the way, I am using an Epson 6030 in a totally light controlled room-if any other owners would care to comment about their screen choice and pj combo, I'd appreciate that also.
Thanks to all.
post #1399 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmunster2 View Post

John, I wanted to ask if you mean that the black level with the Carada Cinema White is inferior to that of black-out cloth? I am in the same situation, using a 110 diag, 1:78 aspect home-made black-out screen. I want to get a Carada, but not sure whether to order CW or BW. Being relatively new to projection, am I correct in assuming that the black levels of the Brilliant White wouldn't be quite as good as the Cinema White, and less than the black out cloth?
By the way, I am using an Epson 6030 in a totally light controlled room-if any other owners would care to comment about their screen choice and pj combo, I'd appreciate that also.
Thanks to all.

If you email Carada, they'll send you samples so you can compare them yourself - they're about the size of a sheet of paper. The CCW is so close to blackout cloth across the visible spectrum, I'd consider them roughly equivalent. Obviously the Carada material is much tougher, more opaque and can be wiped down. I have no regrets at all going from BO to CCW. A 96" diagonal image looks like plasma TV with my 'HW55 set to "Cinema Bright".

Brilliant White is quite a bit brighter than CCW and my family preferred it, but the blacks weren't black enough for me. I think it's always a tradeoff between black level and brightness, until you get into "active" fabrics (e.g. embedded glass beads). And with those you have other issues (shimmering, reduced viewing angles).
post #1400 of 1421
Thanks
post #1401 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmunster2 View Post


John, I wanted to ask if you mean that the black level with the Carada Cinema White is inferior to that of black-out cloth? I am in the same situation, using a 110 diag, 1:78 aspect home-made black-out screen. I want to get a Carada, but not sure whether to order CW or BW. Being relatively new to projection, am I correct in assuming that the black levels of the Brilliant White wouldn't be quite as good as the Cinema White, and less than the black out cloth?
By the way, I am using an Epson 6030 in a totally light controlled room-if any other owners would care to comment about their screen choice and pj combo, I'd appreciate that also.
Thanks to all.

I asked David Giles as I have the same set-up, Epson 6030 in a totally light controlled room and he suggested the BW over the CCW (which surprised me since the CCW is meant for my set up) but he thought the BW would be better since the punch of the BW would be worth it as the bulb dims. I am going to go with the BW but if am not happy will switch to the CCW. 

post #1402 of 1421
Sorry for not knowing, but who is David Giles?
post #1403 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmunster2 View Post

Sorry for not knowing, but who is David Giles?

 

No worries. He founded Carada in 2003.  

post #1404 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderDelarg View Post

No worries. He founded Carada in 2003.  

Thanks for the help. I decided to go with the CCW, ordering tomorrow.
post #1405 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schlarb View Post

Here's my mini-review...

Summary

This screen is well worth the price, and a very nice product. Shipping was fast and assembly is very easy. Installation is pretty simple unless you have a wavy wall. If haven't done basic carpentry before, you may want to hire someone to mount it.

Background

I'm an avid DIY-er. I built my last 2.35 AR 128" screen for about $60 in 2009, using 1x4s and blackout cloth. This was always meant to be temporary. I just didn't want to commit to a $1k screen until I was sure of the 2.35 setup. But as time went by I decided it was "good enough". What made me move to a new screen was my new Sony VPL-HW55 projector. Its largest image was about 8" smaller than my screen. So my choices were (a) build a new 120" screen, or (b) buy a new 120" screen. We'd just spent $$$ on painting and new carpet upstairs, so my wife didn't blink when I said it was time for a professional-quality screen. She also hates it when I take on a large DIY project, because I can get grumpy. smile.gif

Shipping

I was really impressed with both the speed of the delivery (under 5 days) and the care taken with the packaging. The 2 pairs of white gloves they included also surprised me. This is a very thoughtful company.

Installation

Assembling the frame was really simple. I had it unpacked and screwed together in less than an hour. Mounting the frame was another story. My wall is really wavy, so I knew I'd need to shim out the frame. No shims were included, so I made some out of scrap hardboard with my table saw:



I used double-sided tape to attach the shims near the mounting holes. The result is ugly but solid, and it's hidden by the screen anyway. As an aside, I highly recommend this brick-red color. My family hated the flat black that I laid down as a base coat, but they like this color. It's dark enough to be non-reflective. I used Sherwin-WIlliams Emerald in a matte finish, but the color is Behr's "Chipotle Spice".


Hanging the top bracket was easy. I have a level ceiling, so I just measured down 21" from the molding in 3 places, and drew a line with pencil. The bottom bracket was a little harder. I installed it according to the instructions, but it was too high. It took a few tries to get the distance from the top bracket just right, so that the frame "snapped into place".

With the hard part done (mounting the brackets), I popped the frame off the wall, snapped on the screen and put it back on he wall. This part only took about 15 minutes.

Overall, the installation took me 3-4 hours. Not bad at all.

The Impression

My family and I really like the way this screen looks. I had black velvet masking before, but it was pretty obvious that it was DIY. The Carada is very classy-looking. The Criterion frame is a no-brainer; the beveled masking looks fantastic. I like that I can wipe off the screen if it gets dusty or there's an accident. I couldn't do this with my BO cloth screen, so it was ready to be retired after 4 years of service.


Image Quality

I have a Pioneer Kuro plasma upstairs, and black level is more important to me than brightness. Carada's Cinema White is a bit brighter than the blackout cloth, and the black levels are just a touch more gray. Overall, the Carada CCW produced a very nice picture, with no hot spots regardless of how bright the content was. Something between HCG and CCW would have been better, but I'm still very happy with the picture. I'm sure that as my bulb ages, I'll appreciate the extra gain.

The masking material is thinner than black velvet, but performs just as well for blocking reflections. The new Sony HW55 is 4 times brighter than my old PT-AE3000, so I do see 90-100IRE video reflected back from the masking now (as well as from my old black velvet). This only comes into play with 2.40 content. I used to fill the screen vertically, and let a few inches of the image fall to either side. With the Sony, I am now filling the screen horizontally and leaving very thin black bars on the top and bottom. With my new dark walls, I don't get much reflection back to the screen, so this looks fine. Here are some screenshots from "Big Buck Bunny" and "Where the Wild Things Are". These are iPhone 5S pics, so ignore the blurriness. The images looked amazing in person.


Some Advice

If you can, wait until your projector is mounted before you order your screen. Measuring my luminance with a $40 light meter helped me decide what screen gain to order. I'm getting 18 fL in Reference mode with a 110" wide image and the lamp set to "Low". Other modes are even brighter. This gave me the confidence to order a unity-gain screen. As the bulb ages, I'll switch the lamp over to high to maintain brightness. Obviously another benefit of getting the projector first is that you can confirm that the image size will work.


The way it is mounted to the wall is there some play to move it left or right for centering purposes?
post #1406 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socio View Post

The way it is mounted to the wall is there some play to move it left or right for centering purposes?

Yes, quite a bit. I've moved mine 1-2 feet in either direction without any problem.
post #1407 of 1421
It sounds like Carada is recommending Brilliant White to just about everyone (over CCW). What we really need is a screen whose gain increases from 0.9 to 1.3 as our bulbs age. smile.gif

In all seriousness, the room plays a huge role in determining which screen is more appropriate. You can use a highly reflective screen in a true "bat cave" without degrading black levels. But if you have even one light-colored surface (like my beige carpet, ugh), reflections are a problem.
Edited by John Schlarb - 1/23/14 at 3:36pm
post #1408 of 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schlarb View Post

Yes, quite a bit. I've moved mine 1-2 feet in either direction without any problem.

Awesome, that made up my mind for me, going to pull the trigger on one.
Edited by Socio - 1/28/14 at 5:50am
post #1409 of 1421
I just upgraded to a motorized screen. I have a Carada Criterion 118" (brilliant white), 16:9. Selling $250 in great condition. Pickup only in 91722. Unfortunately I don't have a full picture of it. Only side pictures when I was taking my speakers biggrin.gif

I might consider shipping after 28 days from now when the box from the new projector is available (just in case it breaks and RMA is needed). Of course buyer pays for shipping and paypal fee:biggrin.gif
Edited by tractng - 2/16/14 at 10:15am
post #1410 of 1421
I am getting a new Precision 1.78, 114 diagonal screen. Just wondering if it mounts with just one 4 ft bracket on the top and one 4 ft for the bottom?
Thanks
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