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New calibration disc - Page 8

post #211 of 2211
10/27/05 at 12:39pm
Thread Starter 
Claus: I would be grateful for any contributions in the documantation department. All my hobbies seem to turn into jobs and poof, there goes all my free time. So capable lending hands are welcome. Only big requirement is it's original material so I don't violate anyones copyrights when released. Thanks
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post #212 of 2211
10/27/05 at 12:47pm
Ok, I'll get right on it. I plan to send you a draft by Saturday (or earlier, if possible). It will be my own interpretation.
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post #213 of 2211
10/27/05 at 12:56pm
I am quite busy right now, so I can't lend my help so much in writing such a thing, but I certainly would be willing to read it and lend my comments, because I know that thorough explanations of pattern use on many displays can be pretty complex and daunting. I'd be happy to help!
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post #214 of 2211
10/27/05 at 12:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

Ok, I'll get right on it. I plan to send you a draft by Saturday (or earlier, if possible). It will be my own interpretation.

Cool. Not too fast though, you'll make me look bad (slow) .
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post #215 of 2211
10/27/05 at 12:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

I am quite busy right now, so I can't lend my help so much in writing such a thing, but I certainly would be willing to read it and lend my comments, because I know that thorough explanations of pattern use on many displays can be pretty complex and daunting. I'd be happy to help!

Thanks Chris, your input is extremely welcome.
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post #216 of 2211
10/27/05 at 1:06pm
Ok Chris, I'll send you a draft copy too. I'm going to try to maintain the KISS approach for the less experienced user, since the more experienced won't really need it.

I do want it to be technically accurate and I'm not as experienced as you are (I cut my projection calibration teeth on Joe Kane's original "A Video Standard" laserdisc). I may have to re-read your "Source Settings Guide" before I finish though.
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post #217 of 2211
10/30/05 at 4:44pm
Sorry, I'm running behind schedule - my "honey-do" list got in the way.
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post #218 of 2211
10/31/05 at 7:02am
Thread Starter 
Thanks Claus, I was out of town this past weekend myself. It's trick or treat with the kids tonight and I'm going to the Projector shootout/demo in CO this coming weekend, so what's left of my week won't afford much time on the disc . But some good news I have made some progress on the lipsync pattern, so maybe I can fit it in.
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post #219 of 2211
10/31/05 at 7:16am
CO as in Colorado? Where?
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post #220 of 2211
10/31/05 at 7:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomagnate View Post

CO as in Colorado? Where?

Yes, Colorado Springs:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=589990
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post #221 of 2211
10/31/05 at 9:30am
Where exactly is mid south> How far to Co. Springs?

Vern
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post #222 of 2211
10/31/05 at 9:36am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vern Dias View Post

Where exactly is mid south> How far to Co. Springs?

Tennessee, several hours via Chicago by plane to Denver then an hour more as I understand it to CS.
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post #223 of 2211
10/31/05 at 9:05pm
Still patiently waiting..... ho hum. Got my Toshiba 52HMX95 half heartedly set up and need a cal disc to finish her off. I'm suffering from a touch of black crush, red push and general yet minor color adjustments. I also didn't know just how bad the A/V sync issue could be on these DLP sets. Almost as bad as watching a late 70's karate flic at 2AM on a 3rd rate TV station. But I do sorta miss those days. I'm expecting my HK 335 receiver to arrive this week to fix the A/V sync issues. Truthfully I can wait for the cal disc to be ready as perfection always beats near-perfection. I do suppose perfection is what you're aiming for, right GETGRAY? Not to mention the inclusion of some type of help file is definitely worth some wait.
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post #224 of 2211
11/1/05 at 4:23pm
Thread Starter 
Multilevel colorbars complete:
LL
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post #225 of 2211
11/1/05 at 6:08pm
Dumb question, or lets say a learning question. The image you attached, multilevelcolorbar, is that the real image size 432 x 240 pixels? For us with the SD slot could we simply load pics of that nature on a SD card, insert it and tweak settings from the jpeg viewer?
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post #226 of 2211
11/1/05 at 6:12pm
Thread Starter 
No. I resized it just so someone would not make that mistake. The patterns are designed for DVD encoding, the image is just to give a general idea of what the pattern looks like. A jpeg viewer is more likely PC based and these patterns aren't the right ones to use for pure 0-255 RGB (PC levels). They are designed for video levels and digital YCbCr that comes from a DVD.
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post #227 of 2211
11/2/05 at 4:04am
rbbnet -- You really should buy the AVIA "Guide to Home Theater" DVD, if you haven't already. You will still need it to explain the ins and outs of PJ calibration. The DVD that GetGray is working on will not be a substitute for teaching you the details of calibration.
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post #228 of 2211
11/2/05 at 4:10am
Luckily I have a good buddy who is in the know on calibration and has done it many times. He also has an old copy of either Avia or DVE and was just yesterday explaining the use of the filters and such. Truthfully I've spent very lil time with my new HDTV. It's not even set-up all the way yet. My DVD player hasn't arrived nor has my sub. My Harman Kardon 335 receiver came in yesterday.... DOA, gotta love that. Now I've got to see how returns/exchange/repair will go on it.
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post #229 of 2211
11/7/05 at 4:45pm
Any new news?
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post #230 of 2211
11/7/05 at 4:47pm
Some would say no news is good news, but in this instance... no news is killing me.
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post #231 of 2211
11/8/05 at 11:38am
Thread Starter 
Sorry guys, I went to John Schuermann's Projector Expo this past weekend in CO. Was a 4 day fun/business trip. I tried to get it ready before the Expo but didn't make it. I have all patterns and sequences done with the exception of some touchup on a couple and to finish the syncing of teh audio to the lipsync animated pattern (pattern is done).

I'll have another beta ready probably this week to get input on menu architecture and general program flow.

We had to use someone's copy of DVE this weekend. I forgot how much I hate it's navigation and I even know how to use it! I D/L'd Demo version 2 from my website onto a USB flash drive and used my discs patterns instead on Sunday. Guess what, the person operating the HTPC didn't need any instructions on how to find the patterns as I asked for them and took measurments with my light meter. Imagine that, easy navigation
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post #232 of 2211
11/8/05 at 12:53pm
HEHE

I use my customers as the player remote control as well since I already have my hands full with the projector remote!. AVIA PRO is very simple menu structure as well the only problem they have is my scatter brained method of calibration.
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post #233 of 2211
11/8/05 at 1:10pm
Thread Starter 
Not too late to add a menu item:

KRAS SBM Sequence

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post #234 of 2211
11/8/05 at 1:50pm
Thread Starter 
FYI, I am adding a ANSI pattern of an inverted ANSI 4x4 checkerboard pattern (to compliment the non-inverted same pattern) so that one may use Greg Rogers method of calculationg CR. Since Greg's reviews are highly respected this would enable one to make measurments at least using the same procedure Greg uses. Specifically GR's *modified* method is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Rogers View Post

I measure the individual CR (white/black) of the center 4 blocks of a 4x4 checkerboard pattern (and an inverted checkerboard pattern) and then average the 4 CR measurements (there is usually little difference in those 4 blocks). The ANSI CR measures each of the 16 blocks once (8 black, 8 white) and then averages the blacks and whites to compute the contrast ratio. The main difference is that the outer blocks have a higher contrast ratio than the center blocks because the outer black blocks are not completely surrounded by white blocks. There is no exact conversion between the two methods because light scatter in the outer blocks is subject to unpredictable effects near the panel edges, sides of the lens, etc. But if the light scatter were completely uniform, the ANSI CR would be about 1.42 x my modified ANSI CR.

So Claus if you're still thinking of writing up instructions, you might want to add that blurb once you see the pattern layout.
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post #235 of 2211
11/9/05 at 12:53am
Thanks. I'm still working on it. I may need some help with test pattern description. I'll put in blanks where I'm not sure what to say. I hope to get the first draft completed by this weekend. Getting an updated beta will help, as I'm guessing form the data you've provided so far.
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post #236 of 2211
11/9/05 at 5:59am
Thread Starter 
Calus: Thanks, I understand and I'll get you to one ASAP

Everyone:

I'm fretting a little over whether or not to keep the "quick sequence" which is essentially the original Beta disc with the fundamental patterns that happen to match the sequence used with the Accucal software...

OR

Not having a "quick sequence" and just having the core patterns by category that anyone could select as they need them.

Instead of having an uninterrupted "quick" sequence of ramp, contrast, brightness, color bar, color window, gray window, etc.

One would instead have to use:
color->bars (sequence)
color->windows (sequence)
brightness/contrast (looping sequence)
gray patterns-> gray window x10 (sequence)
etc.

While the "quick sequence" seemed like a good idea when I did it, I am finding I rarely use it and wan to go directly to my desired pattern. I'm starting to think the "quick sequence" may be redundant and not used much.

Comments, opinions?
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post #237 of 2211
11/9/05 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

Scott,

I'm a retired EE (Physics Degree) and have done quite a bit of technical writing (manual, specifications, proposals, etc.) before I retired.

If you would like me to take a stab at doing a brief set of instructions, I would be happy to help - I have your Beta2 files, and have downloaded your caldiscmenu_V3.1. I can convert the instructions to pdf when done.

PS -- I have the AVIA, DVE, & HQV consumer DVDs.

Just a suggestion... converting to pdf is great. but provide the instructions in an editable format as well... ".doc". etc so someone can edit /add tweaks as found... notes, etc.

(In other words provide the instructions in the pdf format AND in a format that can be EDITED later on.)
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post #238 of 2211
11/9/05 at 9:43am
Quote:


While the "quick sequence" seemed like a good idea when I did it, I am finding I rarely use it and wan to go directly to my desired pattern. I'm starting to think the "quick sequence" may be redundant and not used much.

Well, obviously I am in favor of the quick sequence, as that is the sequence I will be using 95% of the time, but it is your disc and your call. Even if you discard the sequence, the navigation will still be better than most any disc, and I still have the beta disc with the sequence on it.
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post #239 of 2211
11/9/05 at 11:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Well, obviously I am in favor of the quick sequence, as that is the sequence I will be using 95% of the time, but it is your disc and your call. Even if you discard the sequence, the navigation will still be better than most any disc, and I still have the beta disc with the sequence on it.

Worst case I'll be sure you have a "good color" version with the Quick Sequence. It was you who got me into this after all .

Since the menus are all done and most of the work of hooking it all up, assigning buttons, determining looping behaviors, etc is complete, the next beta will have the Quick Sequence for sure. That'll give some testers and you some more feel for it so we can tweak and improve if need be.

I have a few navigation errors to clear and some spots to loop that I missed and Beta 4 is ready. I'm going to work on the lipsync pattern's audio track after Beta4.

One of the things Cliff Plavin does when doing calibrations and what I do as well usually is rock back and forth between a low and high IRE (sorry Bill, I mean percent stimulus ) pattern. For example a 30% and a 80%. As one rocks back and forth you can adjust the individual RGB gain and bias to flatten the grayscale at those points. No matter the colorimeter device, that might be helpful to get the settings in the ballpark, assuming there dosen't happen to be some odd spike at 30 or 80. Then start full grayscale runs.

So maybe a pair of "rocking" sequences:
30%-80% gray looping
20%-90% gray looping

These sequences would simply loop (via the next button) around and around until menu is selected. This woudl make bouncing back and forth a lot simpler.

Both under the "gray patterns" menu.

Input, comments welcome as always...

Scott
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post #240 of 2211
11/9/05 at 11:09am
Good call on the "rocking" 30-80 stim for gray scale. I spend most time rocking there, but have been known to rock-out a bit in the brightness / contrast arena as well
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