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New calibration disc - Page 72

post #2131 of 2211
1/14/09 at 11:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by acillatem View Post

O.k. thanks! So, in your opinion, after I use the THX optimizer, the GetGray disc would be user friendly enough for a novice like me? I saw a few posts back a guy not being happy with it. Things I have read suggest that it is more straightforward than Avia or DVE

After you do a bit of reading in the subject (particularly much of this thread) you should read up through page seven in the the GetGray manual. If it's clear then GetGray should work for you. If not then it's a poor choice. It's important that you do your homework first. The GetGray manual is not a tutorial, there's no glossary and it assumes that you have a good grasp of certain concepts (e.g. pc versus video levels). I would not say the disc is more straightforward. It's a collection of patterns that are designed to be easy to use with a meter and calibration software on a digital display with minimum through CMS controls. There are no patterns to support other purposes or explanatory chapters. This makes navigation simple because there are few choices and they loop until you press skip. Minimalistic is probably a better word than straightforward.

A number of folks find the Avia or DVE (or Monster or ...) discs helpful because they have a certain amount of tutorial material and I think particularly in the case of Avia, supplemental material about home theatre as a whole -- not just the video chain.

By the way, since you have a DTV HD-DVR you can record the HDNET test pattern "show" that runs every Saturday morning at 0730.
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post #2132 of 2211
1/15/09 at 12:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post


By the way, since you have a DTV HD-DVR you can record the HDNET test pattern "show" that runs every Saturday morning at 0730.

Yep, got my dvr set to record it this saturday!
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post #2133 of 2211
1/16/09 at 9:36pm
So after adjust the settings of my tv with the DVE disc, my dad wanted me to work on his. His Panasonic now looks even better. Then he told me my niece really needs her new Vizio calibrated too. Good gracious that TV has terrible color! Reds were WAY oversaturated. I tried the best I could but wow.
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post #2134 of 2211
1/16/09 at 10:09pm
Voyeur -- This is a thread about the GetGray Caldisc. Please do not post details on a subject material that concerns the using of other calibration discs. Your last two posts do not contribute to the subject of this thread.

Thank you.
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post #2135 of 2211
1/16/09 at 10:16pm
acillatem -- If you have read the GetGrayCaldiscReadme.zip instructions (www.calibrate.tv) and think you can understand how to use the disc, then by all means get it. The GetGray disc is by far the best SD calibration disc you can use, IMHO. It is also has the most accurate test patterns of any calibration disc short of multi-hundreds of dollars (which it equals).

From your posts, it sounds like you certainly have the technical capability, and should be able to use it.
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post #2136 of 2211
1/16/09 at 10:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

Voyeur -- This is a thread about the GetGray Caldisc. Please do not post details on a subject material that concerns the using of other calibration discs. Your last two posts do not contribute to the subject of this thread.

Thank you.

Your welcome.
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post #2137 of 2211
1/17/09 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by acillatem View Post

Is there an alternative? I'm not paying $10.00 for UPS shipping for a pair of paper "glasses" that they could stick in an envelope and mail for a couple dollars.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post15487361

-Bill
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post #2138 of 2211
1/17/09 at 1:55pm
acillatem -- As Bill linked to, the USPS shipping is $2.50 for one pair, as it says on this link to the glasses order page (http://www.costore.com/THX/producten...=87&pid=930793).
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post #2139 of 2211
1/25/09 at 5:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

acillatem -- As Bill linked to, the USPS shipping is $2.50 for one pair, as it says on this link to the glasses order page (http://www.costore.com/THX/producten...=87&pid=930793).

Yes, just received mine in the US mail - (2) pair $3.98, Shipping $5.00 for a total of $8.98
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post #2140 of 2211
1/25/09 at 5:08am
I ordered GetGray and like it very much, very well layed out.
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post #2141 of 2211
3/4/09 at 5:56pm
Thread Starter 
Derko: This is the thread to ask your SD/HD question re calibrating with GetGray There are several calibrators and other very helpful folks like Claus here who will help. Best, Scott
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post #2142 of 2211
3/26/09 at 5:22am
Hi,

When using GetGray on a PS3 to set colour/tint levels using the THX Glasses, will the results apply to SD playback on the PS3 only and not Blu-Ray, or will the same colour results be achieved for both playback formats?


Would it be better to set colour/tint levels for Blu-Ray playback using the AVCHD disc?


Thanks.
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post #2143 of 2211
3/26/09 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Serpent View Post

... Would it be better to set colour/tint levels for Blu-Ray playback using the AVCHD disc?

Is there a difference if you do it both ways?
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post #2144 of 2211
3/26/09 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Is there a difference if you do it both ways?


I tried both ways and results are the same, therefore that answers my question

Actually, I get exactly the same results using getgray-thx glasses combo, DVE Disc-supplied filter combo and the AVS 709 disc - thx glasses combo.

I found the AVS 709 blinking colour pattern the easiest method to set colour/tint.

Regarding contrast, the 'correct' setting for my Pioneer KRP-500A going by the test patterns was 40. but that's far too bright for my viewing environment. The highest I could go is 32, but I like 23 aswell which was measured by an AVForums member to be 24fL (80 cd/m2). Gives a very natural, easy on the eyes image.
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post #2145 of 2211
3/29/09 at 12:17pm
Silver Serpent -- I agree that you should be running the lower Contrast value setting. I'm not sure what you mean by the "correct" Contrast (White Level) setting. The most critical setting is the Brightness (Black Level) adjustment (which should be done first). Because of the way various manufacturers design their electronics, the Contrast control is much harder to judge the "right" setting. In your case, the dimmer setting (23) is the best (based on your description), as long as you are not clipping the white levels.
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post #2146 of 2211
4/1/09 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

Silver Serpent -- I agree that you should be running the lower Contrast value setting. I'm not sure what you mean by the "correct" Contrast (White Level) setting. The most critical setting is the Brightness (Black Level) adjustment (which should be done first). Because of the way various manufacturers design their electronics, the Contrast control is much harder to judge the "right" setting. In your case, the dimmer setting (23) is the best (based on your description), as long as you are not clipping the white levels.

Hi, what I meant by 'correct' contrast is 'calibrated contrast', i.e. where the set is calibrated to achieve maximum white luminance whilst still being able to differentiate between shades of white. In other words, setting it to the maximum where white clipping won't occur.

'Correct' probably wasn't the right word to use, as there won't be a universal setting for each display that's suitable for all environments.

40 is the maximum I can set contrast on my Pioneer KRP without clipping white, but as I said my last post it's far too bright for my viewing environment.

I use the following ambient lighting kit set to 6500k:

http://www.neon-lights.co.uk/

I can adjust the bias light for use with whatever level of contrast I choose, but I'm currently running on 23, which gives a more natural looking image and will ofcourse be easier on the display aswell.
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post #2147 of 2211
4/2/09 at 12:26am
Silver Serpent -- The problem is that reasonable judgment has to be used in conjunction with any calibration tool (especially if you are not using measurement instrumentation). Just because you "can" set your display to a maximum contrast level (40) without clipping, or tinting, doesn't mean that that is what it "should" be set to. As I had said, the lower setting (23) is the "correct" one, in your case, because that is the setting that is the "best" for your viewing environment.

It's like audio. Just because you may have a surround sound system that is capable of delivering undistorted audio at 130dB levels, doesn't mean that is the level you "should" be playing it at.
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post #2148 of 2211
4/2/09 at 7:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Serpent View Post

Hi, what I meant by 'correct' contrast is 'calibrated contrast', i.e. where the set is calibrated to achieve maximum white luminance whilst still being able to differentiate between shades of white. In other words, setting it to the maximum where white clipping won't occur.

Allowing for some laxity of language this "working" or process oriented definition targeted for pre-1990's era direct view CRT displays or CRT based projectors. The minimum amount of light is pretty straightforward, the maximum is trickier but the calibration folks do have recommendations. E.g. THX says ~30 fL for reasonable viewing environment.

Quote:


'Correct' probably wasn't the right word to use, as there won't be a universal setting for each display that's suitable for all environments.

Indeed.
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post #2149 of 2211
4/3/09 at 2:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

Silver Serpent -- The problem is that reasonable judgment has to be used in conjunction with any calibration tool (especially if you are not using measurement instrumentation). Just because you "can" set your display to a maximum contrast level (40) without clipping, or tinting, doesn't mean that that is what it "should" be set to. As I had said, the lower setting (23) is the "correct" one, in your case, because that is the setting that is the "best" for your viewing environment.

It's like audio. Just because you may have a surround sound system that is capable of delivering undistorted audio at 130dB levels, doesn't mean that is the level you "should" be playing it at.

Agreed, yes.

The most I can go is 32, but that's with the bias light increased. The image does have more depth at that setting with whites looking whiter when compared to 23 where they look duller, but ultimately, 23 makes for easier viewing and provides a more filmic image.

At a guess I would say 32 contrast is around 35fL, which usually is too bright for a dark room. Alot of calibrators recommend 30fL for a dark room, but even that can be too bright for some.

24fL (80 cd/m2 - video white) works very well for a dark room, but then it's below the 30fL SMPTE recommend as a minimum, so it can lead to a whole new debate all over again

A poster on AVForums said that these recommendations should be seen as a maximum, with anything below that set to taste.

I think I would agree with that.
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post #2150 of 2211
4/5/09 at 2:14pm
I was sure this was asked earlier but my Search pulls up nothing on this .
The Color Patterns on the GG Disc are stated to be at 75% "Amplitude" . Does this equate to 75% "Saturation" and if so at what Brightness(Y)...75% or 100% ?

As you may be aware , there has been a lot of discussion on the JVC and Epson Calibration Threads about which exact Pattern is to be used and this is confused somewhat by the AVSHD disk having both types . I'm just now curious how GG has encoded these Patterns .

Again if this has already been Posted , I apologize . Just point me to the answer

Scott....................
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post #2151 of 2211
4/5/09 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_R_K View Post

The Color Patterns on the GG Disc are stated to be at 75% "Amplitude" . Does this equate to 75% "Saturation" and if so at what Brightness(Y)...75% or 100% ?

Scott,

75% amplitude means 75% brightness or stimulus - all these terms are used interchangeably. But the patterns are all 100% saturation. GetGray does not have the saturation patterns (25/50/75% saturation at 100% stimulus) that the HCFR and AVSHD discs have.

hope this helps,


--tom
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post #2152 of 2211
4/5/09 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasl View Post

Scott,

75% amplitude means 75% brightness or stimulus - all these terms are used interchangeably. But the patterns are all 100% saturation. GetGray does not have the saturation patterns (25/50/75% saturation at 100% stimulus) that the HCFR and AVSHD discs have.

hope this helps,


--tom

Thanks Tom , that helps a lot .Good to know .

Scott.................
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post #2153 of 2211
4/15/09 at 6:33am
Thread Starter 
Hi guys. This post is mainly for the "regulars" who have helped other's out so much over the years. Can you believe it's been 3 1/2 YEARS since we started this thing? Wow, time flies. The people who helped create the GetGray DVD read like a "who's who" of AVS. Some of them are listed in the DVD's credits. Many others started participating in this thread after it's beta status to help a LOT of new users along the way, Claus, jvincent, all you guys, THANKS from me and on behalf of all the people you all have helped directly or indirectly.

Well after 3 1/2 years someone apparently complained that the becasue the thread was linking to a commercial site that it was in viloation of the forum rules. It was linking to a semi-commercial site as everyone who has the DVD knows, which covered the costs to fool with the thing. But, becasue of that link, the moderator was obligated to remove the thread in response to the complaint. I understand and fair is fair. But the moderators have graciously put the thread back in place, so I can make some changes to hopefully bring it into compliance.

I have changed the thread's lead post to remove the direct links to the donation page. I have removed posts where I discussed the donation page or how to donate, etc. If whoever originally complained will let me know of any other offending post I missed, that I have edit capability on, I will gladly remove or edit it, too.

For those helping other's and participating in this thread, please, no donation talk. If you want to point a user to the docs, they are linked in the first post, as well as the patterns. If they need to find more information about the DVD, how to get it, etc. "Google's your buddy". The discussion here on AVS should just be about using the DVD, your experiences with it, any problems, praise, complaints, etc. I think that will be OK. Just no pricing, no sales discussion. Again, Googles your buddy for that, off of AVS.

Don't beat up the mods about this, please, I think they are being fair. And thanks again for 3 1/2 years of fun with this DVD.

In the FWIW news department, I did start looking into a HD version again recently. The Pro level authoring tools are still ridiculous. Sony's "Blu-Print" authoring tool is still $50,000, yes, that is 4 zero's. I am looking at another tool that will enable me to reproduce the disc on Blu-Ray with the same functionality it has now. Don't mark any calendars or hold your breath, if I do it it will take some time. And it would not be something to compete with other Blu-Ray calibration discs with more advanced patterns, it would be the same KISS motif, simple, fundamental, basic patterns only, easy to use and navigate. The people who need or want the discs with advanced testing patterns know where to get them and how to use them.

Thanks again to everyone,
Scott
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post #2154 of 2211
4/15/09 at 2:51pm
Welcome Back !

Scott...............
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post #2155 of 2211
4/16/09 at 10:53am
I just found this particular forum and bought the GetGray. I also have DVE and Avia. After hours of working with it, I'm still having problems figuring out the best way to set the contrast (picture=pany speak) for my TH-50PX60U. I set the plasma to Standard and temperature cool seems to make the grays less colored and closer to black/white and pure shades of relatively untinted gray.

There's one pattern where instructions are, "adjust up or down until the above white bars (+2%, +5%) just disappear into the background"
I never can get them to disappear. So I then follow the alternate step, "
If the device will not display the above white bars, an alternate procedure is to lower the
contrast until the -1% bar just disappears, then raise the contrast until the -1% bar is visible."
I can't get the -1 to appear. I see the text, but not the bar above it.
Current settings are Picture (contrast) +22, Brightness (black level) +6, color -3, tint, -6, sharpness -14.
Oppo DV-981HD via HDMI into Yamaha RX-V3800 via HDMI into Panasonic TH-50PX60U with firmware upgrades applied.

Thanks in advance for any definitive help with setting the contrast.
Rob
Lynchburg, VA
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post #2156 of 2211
4/16/09 at 11:02am
Thread Starter 
Rob:

It's a common question. On many displays, the white bars will not clip (disappear) like the brightness pattern will. Adjust upward to where you don't see color shifting and stop there. Or to a lumaniance (how bright it is) level that suits you.

Claus:

Do we have a good explanation of this in the thread somewhere by one of our resident calibrators? I know you'd explained it a few times better that I just did and I thought it had been explained more technically before here, but don't remember for sure. I really need to make this a FAQ and add it to the original post, or the website, or both.

Thanks
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post #2157 of 2211
4/16/09 at 11:05am
Not all displays will let you make the +2%/5% bars disappear. For those display you need to adjust contrast as high as possible without getting colour shifts.

The crossed ramps/steps patterns are very good patters for checking this.

Also don't forget that brightness and contrast almost always interact so if you end up lowering contrast you will likely need to adjust brightness as well.
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post #2158 of 2211
4/16/09 at 11:17am
Thread Starter 
Since this gets asked so often, I started a new thread. Maybe we can get some input there so we can discuss the whys and what-to-do's there. Here is OK too. I thought I might try to compile some old answers and build a sticky worthy, or at least reference worthy thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1139456

Sure to help beginners.
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post #2159 of 2211
4/16/09 at 11:21am
Claus, thanks for the response and the new thread. I searched this thread and printed everything relevant. I'm looking forward to the new thread.

Now I'm off to go look for some "color shifts."
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post #2160 of 2211
4/16/09 at 12:57pm
Seems like I get color shift throughout most of the mid to upper range.
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