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Panny AE900 Official Thread- Please post here! - Page 9

post #241 of 6453
I wonder how the B+W filter used by many with the 700 would work on the 900. Hope someone does some testing soon.
post #242 of 6453
Darin,
From your initial testing, it would seem that the Normal or possibly even the Dynamic mode has the greatest potential for on-off CR and lumens provided that the projector can be calibrated for proper colour balance and gamma tracking in these modes. Did you calculate the lumens in each mode? How about with the lamp in the low and high settings? I am trying to get an idea whether or not the Panny 900 can be set up to provide sufficient lumens for my large Screen Research screen.
post #243 of 6453
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

I wonder how the B+W filter used by many with the 700 would work on the 900. Hope someone does some testing soon.

I had used the filter with the AE700. I think changing the screen is a much better idea having tried both. I think the Optoma Graywolf is a great match in that regard since so many of these are shelf/table mounted.
post #244 of 6453
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

I wonder how the B+W filter used by many with the 700 would work on the 900. Hope someone does some testing soon.

Do you, or anybody else, know what filter that was? Was it just a red filter (like a CC30R or CC40R), or did it have some skew toward orange or salmon? The skew that way would reduce blue a little more than green, which looks like the most ideal way to go to me at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott B View Post

Did you calculate the lumens in each mode?

I didn't, but I have some numbers written down at home. The numbers with a filter would be lower, but in Normal mode without a filter and the lamp on high I recall averaging around 190 lux at screen level with a 90" wide image. That is 190 lumens per square meter. Going to Google and asking, "What is 90 inches in meters?" gives a response of 2.286 meters. Multiplying that by 9/16 gives 1.286 meters for the image height. Then 2.286*1.286=2.94 square meters. Multiplying that by 190 gives 560 lumens in that mode. That doesn't sound like a lot if a color filter and putting the lamp on low are going to end up at 200 lumens or so. I haven't tried low lamp mode though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by romanesq View Post

I had used the filter with the AE700. I think changing the screen is a much better idea having tried both. I think the Optoma Graywolf is a great match in that regard since so many of these are shelf/table mounted.

I can try the Graywolf I have, but it seems to have a blue push of its own, which is the opposite direction as we're trying to go with the color balance here though. But, your post does bring up a good point that might be one reason you prefer the screen change. One thing we are trying to do is improve the on/off CR. But, that will come with a loss of lumens. If you have lights on then this may hurt the on/off CR off the screen. And in a white room it may be more adventageous to use a gray screen to help retain ANSI CR than to end up making the projector dimmer and not being able to use the gray screen because the images would be too dim then. This is part of the tradeoff between ANSI CR and on/off CR in the images. Does your room have light colored walls?

If it weren't for the pattern I see on the Graywolf I would probably use it and a color filter on the AE900 in my dark room.

--Darin
post #245 of 6453
Quote:


If it weren't for the pattern I see on the Graywolf I would probably use it and a color filter on the AE900 in my dark room.

but didn't you just say that the graywolf is better then a filter for someone who has a non-light controlled or light walled room?
post #246 of 6453
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsm88 View Post

but didn't you just say that the graywolf is better then a filter for someone who has a non-light controlled or light walled room?

No, I said it would likely have better ANSI CR in a light walled room and would also likely have better on/off CR with lights on than with a filter (but might not be at D65). "Better ANSI CR" and "Better" are not the same thing. The ANSI CR is just one parameter. The Graywolf has a kind of gray and white splotchy pattern to it that some will see and some won't. Because it is cheap I can overlook it somewhat, but it is still there.

--Darin
post #247 of 6453
This was the filter that was used by the majority of people on the AE700
We also started with Brad Bissell's settings on the AE700 filter thread.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...u=11126&is=REG

Settings for AE700

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...09#post5416909
post #248 of 6453
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Do you, or anybody else, know what filter that was? Was it just a red filter (like a CC30R or CC40R), or did it have some skew toward orange or salmon? The skew that way would reduce blue a little more than green, which looks like the most ideal way to go to me at this point.

I ordered a 77mm 81EF Warming filter from B&W.
The filter was also known as a 77mm KR6.

Hope that helps.
I bet these filters work just as well with the AE-900 as they did on the AE-700. For the most part, it sounds like not much has changed between the two units. But like someone else said, we will have to wait and see what users com up with that have the proper experience and equipment.

Craig
post #249 of 6453
Its here!!! My first projector, Looks great so far..but im going it such injustice by using composite cables as component, and shooting onto a dull gray cinder block wall. Cant wait to get to work on a light fusion screen. Then, Im going to paint the room a darker absorpent color, and install a heavy set of curtains to block out the window.

From a 19" tv with only an antenna in, to a panny 900...its nice to finally be able to use surround sound for more than a radio.

Next up, Hi-Def Dish Network install...
post #250 of 6453
Thanks Darin, i will of course keep viewing this thread, but i wont purchase until someone confirms that it will be a good edition to the Panny.

Thanks
Chris




Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

I wouldn't recommend ordering one until this all gets washed out by people with measuring equipment, but I do think those setting up for most home theater enviroments would do best with a filter once the best ones are figured out. This is mostly to get better CR and also help with the bluish blacks (at least on this AE900). But, if somebody has lights on or really needs extra lumens then a filter might not be the best choice. Those who watch in the dark and also with lights on or coming in may do best by having a setup with a filter for lights off and then without a filter for lights on. Like for the Superbowl where extra lumens might be more important than color balance or more CR from the projector (since extra lumens are the best way to retain CR in the images with lights on).

--Darin
post #251 of 6453
Oriphus, What screen and size are you planning to use? I need a recommendation (119" diagonal).
Thanks,Rick
post #252 of 6453
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

No, I said it would likely have better ANSI CR in a light walled room and would also likely have better on/off CR with lights on than with a filter (but might not be at D65). "Better ANSI CR" and "Better" are not the same thing. The ANSI CR is just one parameter. The Graywolf has a kind of gray and white splotchy pattern to it that some will see and some won't. Because it is cheap I can overlook it somewhat, but it is still there.

--Darin

Thanks for clearing that up - I have been a committed dyi guy, but for the price of the gw is am tempted to try it along with my pj upgrade (something 720p in the next 60 days.) Pj is used for all TV viewing, mostly HD (sports/hbo), totally non-light controlled room. Frankly, ANSI contrast is what I am more concerned about with a D5 pj, coming from dlp, so to me, better ansi cr is better cr. Too bad TI isn't competing with the d5.
post #253 of 6453
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

I didn't, but I have some numbers written down at home. The numbers with a filter would be lower, but in Normal mode without a filter and the lamp on high I recall averaging around 190 lux at screen level with a 90" wide image. That is 190 lumens per square meter. Going to Google and asking, "What is 90 inches in meters?" gives a response of 2.286 meters. Multiplying that by 9/16 gives 1.286 meters for the image height. Then 2.286*1.286=2.94 square meters. Multiplying that by 190 gives 560 lumens in that mode. That doesn't sound like a lot if a color filter and putting the lamp on low are going to end up at 200 lumens or so. I haven't tried low lamp mode though.
--Darin

Thanks Darin. It looks like the Panny 900 may not meet my needs. I use my Epson Cinema 500 in the Natural colour mode with the lamp at the highest setting. This gave about 650 lumens when the lamp was new. Now with 300 hours on the lamp, I find myself wishing for more lumens. Areas of improvement that I am looking for in a new projector include higher contrast, greater light output, and less screendoor. I am susceptible to eye fatigue with single chip DLP which rules out bright single chip DLPs such as the InFocus 7205/7210. The Sony Ruby sounds nice, but will most likely have inadequate lumens. The Sim2 C3X or InFocus 777 would fit my criteria, but I cannot justify the price given that they are 720P. I was hoping the Panny 900 would be a nice stopgap until 3 chip DLP came down in price. In any event I will probably try a Panny 900 in my HT to see how it works, but in the end it looks like I may keep my Cinema 500 for another year.
post #254 of 6453
Has anybody really tested this projector up against the benq pe7700 or the optoma h78. If so how do they compare. I am looking to upgrade in the next month or so but, i am waiting to see if these new crop of LCDs hold up against the DLP projectors. Thanks.
-Chris
post #255 of 6453
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.c View Post

Has anybody really tested this projector up against the benq pe7700 or the optoma h78. If so how do they compare. I am looking to upgrade in the next month or so but, i am waiting to see if these new crop of LCDs hold up against the DLP projectors. Thanks.
-Chris

How close will you be sitting? If you can handle the screendoor and potential rainbows, then I would go for the H78 over the AE900 (Darin and I compared AE900 to H79). I felt that the H79 had better colors, contrast, and of course lack of any VB.

We will see how the AE900 looks after calibration though.
post #256 of 6453
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.c View Post

Has anybody really tested this projector up against the benq pe7700 or the optoma h78. If so how do they compare. I am looking to upgrade in the next month or so but, i am waiting to see if these new crop of LCDs hold up against the DLP projectors. Thanks.
-Chris

I'd be particularly interested in comparisons of the pe7700 and ae900 from an absolute performance point of view (ie. forgetting the rainbow/vb comments and assuming equal costs)
post #257 of 6453
I am with ya, leave out the VB and rainbows and such. That would be great!
post #258 of 6453
Anyone know if the AE900's lamp is the same one used in the 700 ?
post #259 of 6453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pultzar View Post

How close will you be sitting? If you can handle the screendoor and potential rainbows, then I would go for the H78 over the AE900 (Darin and I compared AE900 to H79). I felt that the H79 had better colors, contrast, and of course lack of any VB.

We will see how the AE900 looks after calibration though.

Cool, I will be eager to see how the results differ after calibration. Rainbows don't bother me. The only thing that irritates me is contrast ratio. Colors don't have to be perfect. I just hate dark sceens and not being able to make things out. Thanks again.
-Chris
post #260 of 6453
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyR View Post

Anyone know if the AE900's lamp is the same one used in the 700 ?


They both use the 130W UHM, did you get it? Thursday you said.
post #261 of 6453
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.c View Post

Cool, I will be eager to see how the results differ after calibration. Rainbows don't bother me. The only thing that irritates me is contrast ratio. Colors don't have to be perfect. I just hate dark sceens and not being able to make things out. Thanks again.
-Chris

If contrast ratio is the only thing that bothers you, then I would go for the H78 myself.
post #262 of 6453
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelWB View Post

Its here!!! My first projector, Looks great so far..but im going it such injustice by using composite cables as component, and shooting onto a dull gray cinder block wall. Cant wait to get to work on a light fusion screen. Then, Im going to paint the room a darker absorpent color, and install a heavy set of curtains to block out the window.

From a 19" tv with only an antenna in, to a panny 900...its nice to finally be able to use surround sound for more than a radio.

Next up, Hi-Def Dish Network install...

Even with the compressed Dish signal, HD will defeat your other sources.
So the best is yet to come.
post #263 of 6453
Could you guys who have 900's now see how the image quality holds up zoomed all the way in (buggest picture)?

I would use it at its shortest throw and am concerned with loss of focus and chromatic aberration (color separation) at the edges.

If someone else responds, don't let that stop you, as there may be optical quality variation among units.

Oh, and while you're at it, could you measure the image width and throw distance? I believe throw ratios are only spec'd +/- 10%, and this could make or break my RP installation.

Thanks a lot
post #264 of 6453
Quote:


I have the numbers at home, but my memory is that the ANSI CR was around 340:1 and the ratio of just the 4 center rectangles (more like Greg Roger's modified ANSI CR test) was around 270:1. Those seem pretty good for an LCD.

Darin,

This may not be apples to apples since the review method was perhaps different from yours... the WidescreenReview of the H79 measured 370:1 (Greg Rogers was the reviewer). Those ANSI CR numbers for the AE900 you measured seem very impressive.
post #265 of 6453
If they both use the same lamp, then is it possible that the AE900 will suffer a sudden light output drop at the 150-200 hour mark? I recall this happening with a lot of AE700s - was that attributed to the bulb or the projector?

And does anybody really believe ProjectorCentral will actually have a review up by the end of Friday? They never seem to meet the deadlines they set for themselves in their news updates...
post #266 of 6453
Quote:
Originally Posted by KramerTC View Post

This may not be apples to apples since the review method was perhaps different from yours... the WidescreenReview of the H79 measured 370:1 (Greg Rogers was the reviewer). Those ANSI CR numbers for the AE900 you measured seem very impressive.

I haven't calculated with the H79 just using the center 4 rectangles like this, but I did get around 500:1 with the full ANSI CR test with one. The outside rectangles have higher ratios, so my numbers for the inner 4 withan H79 would probably be close to Greg's.

I agree that those were pretty impressive for an LCD. It still has the lower static on/off CR that will come into play in quite a scenes compared to an H79 (I'm going by what I've seen, but haven't completely calibrated an AE900 yet), but still impressive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanLW View Post

And does anybody really believe ProjectorCentral will actually have a review up by the end of Friday? They never seem to meet the deadlines they set for themselves in their news updates...

I wouldn't be surprised if they make Friday of next week, which is basically what they said. I think having an extra reviewer (at least last time I looked) helps them get these out sooner.

--Darin
post #267 of 6453
I wouldn't be surprised if they make Friday of next week, which is basically what they said. I think having an extra reviewer (at least last time I looked) helps them get these out sooner.

--Darin[/quote]

I think they will have the reviews up for next weekend and I certainly appreciate that they will be doing them as a group of the projectors listed. That is really very useful considering the timing of the new releases. In this case only one of three is available.

Besides, the work is really excellent. I can't wait.
post #268 of 6453
hi....does it have a "Full" option, letting you stretch 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen? Toshiba does this very well.
post #269 of 6453
Quote:


Oriphus, What screen and size are you planning to use? I need a recommendation (119" diagonal).
Thanks,Rick

Hi Rick, Im personally only going for a 77" diagonal screen, mainly because ill be less than 8 feet away from it and anything bigger would be too big for me to view comfortably i would guess.

As for the material, i am decided on the Perm-Wall fixed screen from Da-Lite and im still a bit torn between the following materials:

High Contrast Cinema Vision - 1.1 gain, a grey coloured screen
High Contrast Matte White - 1.1 gain, possibly gives the same contrast ratio as the Cinema Vision, but might stay more realistic with the birghtness and the whites.

Maybe someone can clarify the differences between these two screens and their recommendation on what one to get for the Pann AE900 in a light controlled environment and with the projector pointed directly at the centre of the screen from around 2.2 metres or so.

Thanks
Chris
post #270 of 6453
I really don't understand why people pay money for a projector then buy a filter ? I have my Panasonic AE700 set to normal mode and haven't adjusted the settings too much and enjoy a great 106inch film experience, why use filters and the calibrated modes people talk about just leave me cold, why use Avia discs to calibrate ? why not use your eyes and trust your own instincts, if it looks good and you enjoy it then don't worry about what other people say and don't worry about contrast figures and brightness figures, just settle back and watch and enjoy.

The Panasonic AE900 looks to have made some good improvements to the model i have and i hope people get lots of enjoyment from it.
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