Panny AE900 Official Thread- Please post here! - Page 14

Also, if anyone is seeing any kind of screen-door in my "Lost" picture, it has to be because of my digital camera (Low-res mode for this forum)- not the projector. Screen door is totally a non-issue with the AE900. I have yet to show this projector to anyone who could discern any visible picture structure from any reasonable sitting distance. Even up close, it's not like the LCD's of old. Simply a non-issue IMO.

I have several HD Football games. 90% of the time, the picture is so jaw-dropping, you never notice VB/FPN (My new term since I don't know if what I'm seeing is VB or FPN). That said, if the camera pans to an angle with a light background or a shot of the sky, I CAN see VB/FPN during HD Football games. I have a HD TiVo recording of a few games from last Sunday and found more than 1 scene with very noticeable VB/FPN.

Yes, it's the slightly lighter blue vertical strips. It looks much more pronounced as the camera moves. It's not in the source. I can see this exact same issue from a number of sources, including my HD TiVo. I guess my cabling and/or other equipment could be a cause but it looks so much like other people's description of VB/FPN that I doubt it.

I remember Optoma having some parts mixed-up issue between their H79 and H78DC3...hopefully, this won't be the case.

SmoothScreen and Text - I am not having any problems with legibility using my PC. The image is very sharp.

Nobody should compare SmoothScreen to defocus. I have used defocusing on the past with other projectors and it definitely softens the image. If there is any softening with the AE900, it is very minimal and the lack of screendoor is amazing (I sit at 1.2X). Once you view something that has screendoor again, you realize how bad it can look.

ike, what scene is your picture from? I'll try and rent Lost tomorrow and take the same picture on my AE900. Also, what input and settings are you currently using? Oh yeah, also, lamp on low or high?

I thought these were Interesting AE900 comments:

Some say the AE900 picture is Smoother than the AE700 while others say the AE900 isn’t as sharp. One person had two AE900’s and could see that one was “sharper” than the other. Not sure if they were identically set up or using identical inputs.

Here are some rough AE 900 vertical banding stats so far

Vertical Banding on your AE900?

Daniel Hutnicki and his in house demo - No vertical banding on the AE900 and he had several "vertical banding" experts to search for it. (sounds kinda sinister...lol...)
Sportrac – No
MikeSRC – No
Stephenvv – ?? doesn’t think has VB
MRJAZZZ – VB very noticeable at first- possibly getting less noticeable – did some adjustment and it is much reduced. Not eliminated but says he’s no longer bothered by it.
Pultar - ? Slight vertical banding – zero screen door and no peak-a-boo scanlines (hope that holds)
Ike – AE900 with vertical banding (edit)
JimmyR – no vertical banding
3D Quadrium – had vertical banding but tweaked it and now??
z_m – no vertical banding – projected on white wall

For the following folks, could you report on whether or not you have seen vertical banding on your projector?

Have you seen Vertical Banding on your ae900? Yes or no?

HiTechGuy
SFB
Etavadia
DreamCatcher
Jermmd
Rboster

Ike,

Those vertical streaks look suspiciously like a wavy hanging screen. I saw that on the first AE100 I brought home. I was projecting on some blackout material I had hanging and I paniced until I tensioned the screen and it went away.

Normally, in my experience with vertical banding, it is a smaller resolution problem. On the L200 and the TX100 I have seen it on, vertical banding looks like very small vertical lines with fixed borders. There is no shading and the lines look no more than a few pixels wide, if only one or two pixels wide.

Interesting results so far. At least vertical banding is not showing itself in full force at this point. Here's hoping its much improved in the AE900 and other D5 PJ's

Thanks Mike.

My scene is at about 12minutes, 2 seconds into the first episode (Pilot-Part1) on the first Disk of season 1 of Lost.

I'm using the component input and all settings are factory. The only thing I've played with is the flicker and panel adjust.

cpc - my screen is a permantently mounted (tensioned) Da Lite High Contrast Cinema Vision. I don't see any waves in the screen.

BTW - I've only had 1 AE900 projector. The projector I had before this one was an AE700, which I saw the exact same "banding" problems with.

Wow - guys, you got me thinking about my screen. So I did the following tests:

1. I paused my "Lost" scene where VB/FPN was most noticeable. Then I moved the adjustable lens joystick around. The vertical streaks did NOT MOVE !! They stayed in the same position.

2. I re-centered the picture and then moved to a steep off-axis sitting position. NO VP/FPN whatsoever in the picture.

3. I changed the projector from Ceiling to Desk mount, flipping the picture. The streaks stayed near the top of the picture.

UNBELIEVABLE. I'm now 99% convinced that my screen is the culprit. But how ?? It's a tensioned screen with no visible waves. Could my screen have some kind of defects vertically ? Could the tension be just uneven enough to cause a problem ?

If it truely is my screen, sorry for causing you all to get nervous regarding the AE900.

Ike, How large is your screen and what brand is it? I doubt this is the case in home movie screens but in motion picture screens the different panels are often heat welded together.

I would put a bright light on the screen from some other source to see if there are any imperfections.

"Here's the illustration image demonstrating SmoothScreen from the ae900 brochure on Panasonic's web site."

These are obviously fabricated, because the "pixels" contain varying picture info.

Ike, does "did not move" mean that the streaks stayed in the same position on the screen or in the same position in the image? If the former then no doubt about it, your screen is the culprit.

No problem. Glad that 1) you figured out the problem and 2) it wasn't your AE900! (Meaning one less AE900 with "problems"...)

NilsP

The streaks stayed in the same position on the screen.

My Screen is DEFINITELY the culprit. I went one step further and removed the screen from my wall. I'm shocked. Perfect picture with no banding. I've lived with this condition since January - all the time believing the culprit was my former AE700. Probably was nothing wrong with that PJ either. Unbelievable.

I called the place where I purchased the screen and they are calling Da Lite to see if they will do anything.

There is no visible imperfection in the screen that I can see. So - I wonder... is there some kind of defect in the screen material that I just can't see OR is there something wrong with the screen's frame, causing it to be tensioned unevenly.

I hope others who see VB/FPN will try the same experiment with the vertical shift and report back whether they find the 900 or the screen to be the culprit. Also see if this is a common daylite problem or exists on other screens.

Sounds like a manufacturing defect in the HCCV screen material. It does have a combination of grey and reflective elements to achive a slightly higher than usual gain for a grey screen. DaLite has a one year warranty on the screen, so you should be able to get yours replaced.

Anyone - that could be me.


I'm not following this thread diligently so you may have received an answer.
I project with a 700 a Constant Height setup with a 16:9 size of 51 x 91 with an HTPC with HDMI as the transport. I sit about 1.3 but could go closer. I'm not a gamer so I can't comment on that. I've compared good quality VGA vs HDMI cables from RAM and as I've noted earlier in the thread that HDMI is considerably shaper - so much so that EE and panel convergence can become an annoyance. I find desktop type to be quite legible - down to 1 pixel width source. I personally would not use the projector for writing dissertations but is fine for posting on AVS - though I prefer the intimacy of my 19 incher for such use.


I would agree with this comment.


As has been commented, I believe it is more akin to the IMX lens.

ted

It's 110" diag, High Contrast Cinema Vision, Perm Wall from Da Lite. It's completely seamless. I've looked the screen over carefully and can't SEE any imperfections but something either in the material or in the "tensioning" is causing this.

I'm relieved that it isn't the projector but wonder if even a replacement screen from Da-Lite will fix the problem...

It also doesn't look like what I see. That illustration seems more like a demonstration of the fill factor of D5 panels vs older panels than SmoothScreen to me. The SmoothScreen is more like breaking each pixel into multiples, not like that illustration where the pixels are the same size in either case.

Or just kind of rock the projector and see if they move. I'm sure my VB would since it isn't there with a DLP or other projectors I've used as is mostly on the green channel.

--Darin

I had a similar problem with a CV screen from da-lite. I even sent in the screen and frame....and they claimed it wasn't a problem. After about 10 months, I posted a thread in AVS about the problem and got a response back from a Sr Marketing Person who is also an AVS member. They sent a whole new screen and frame without the waves created from the screen snaps not matching up properly. So I would contact the dealer you purchase it from and he/she will contact Da-lite.

As far as VB on my unit. I have the day off today and spent sometime viewing scenes with blue skies etc and I didn't notice any VB. I also went to the marsh scene w/ the fog in LOTR and did not see and FPN.

Ron

PS: As far as the other member's retracking his comments about the smoothscreen same as defocusing....Dude, I'm sure you are well meaning in your comments...but members are making decisions based on information both good and bad in this thread. It's really inappropriate to make statements that you know are conjecture and state them as fact....which is how your comments were perceived (at least by me). Again, I'm sure you didn't mean any ill will, but we should keep our comments to facts or state if they are observations, then state them as such.

Interesting.

I did contact the place where I purhcased the screen and they are contacting Da Lite. I certainly hope I don't have to wait 10 months to get this issue corrected.

In your case, could you visibly see the "waves" created in the screen because of the snaps not matching up properly ? My screen LOOKs perfectly flat, that is, until I project an image with a light background on to it.

That's encouraging... thanks for the feedback.

- JP

That is encouraging. I must admit, I was surprised that nobody else commented that you didn't have vertical banding. Vertical banding is an artifact that has a much smaller scale of resolution. The lines are far smaller and more numerous. Like 1 to two pixels thick on the borders, surrounding an area of 5 or 6 pixels in between. With the Hitachi TX100, there are screens where you adjust it and its obvious. I've seen that "vertical streaking" before, and it was on a screen that someone had which was tensioned too. When I saw it on my projector, the first time I brought home my AE100, it was because the screen material I had hanging down was totally un-tensioned from below. I simply pulled it tight and the waves went away.

In the meantime, go grab some "blackout" material from a drapery/fabric store. In Canada we get it from Fabricland for less than $50.00 CDN for a large enough peice to make a nearly 104" diagonal screen. Try some of that by making a quick screen frame and you'll have a good tester for future screens, or, maybe you'll just use that screen. I like my blackout material screen.

I could ever so slightly see the waves up close on the screen w/o an image. It become more evident once an image was projected. My wife didn't notice them until I pointed them out.

I'm sure your dealer will get everything squared away. If your dealer has problems send me a PM and I will give you any info I have on file. I still may have the letter I sent and to whom I sent it,

Ron

hi....does it have a "Full" option, letting you stretch 4:3 material on a 16:9 screen? Toshiba does this very well.

I think everyone with an AE900 should post their screen material/manufacturer , and weather VB/FPN are present. It looks like we may be able to sort this out, and have Panasonic breathe easier !

Could we also poll the screen sizes folks are using? How big can you go with this projector?

Guys, far be it for me to bash any screen manufacturer, but I have had problems with various screens in the past (Da-Lite HCCV for one). In every case, the screen was past the warranty so I was SOL. When I get my AE900, I am opting for a DIY screen (cheaper, easier to replace if you have problems).