Panasonic ES20 - First Impressions (blog style) - Page 3

The highest double digit channel I have is 82, and it works fine on the ES20. I do remember a few years ago that a channel number in the 80s/90s had a different number on the VCR. I am not an expert on cable systems, but maybe there is a legacy issue with those numbers?

That's absolutely true. And sometimes you don't even know it until someone mentions something else (like the ES10 owner did above), and then you realize that a feature was actually removed! I didn't mind the other differences between the ES10 and the ES20 (or the Pioneer 2xx) but had I known about this at purchase time, it would have probably titled the scales towards the ES10 or the Pioneer 22x/23x.

This and the lack of -RW(VR) are my biggest issues with the ES20 as of this moment. Panasonic are you reading this?

There are many media formats and that can be confusing. On top of that, Panasonic treats the +R like a -R format. And then there's the difference between -RW(Video) and -RW(VR).

I think when most people say you can't create chapters they imply "unless you finalize the disc" and they mean "you can't create a chapter of your own". On the ES20 the only time you have control over chapter quantity and positioning is when using DVD-RAM discs.

The ES10 has more features than the ES20. The ES20 is lighter weight-wise and has a fan. The most glaring omission from the ES20 in my opinion is the ability to pause during FR recording.

The Pioneer 220/225/233 are comparable to the ES10. I am not familiar with the 533 probably because it either has a VCR or a hard disk or costs over $200. I didn't look into those models

"Shorten title" is like pruning a part of the recording. It can also be done using chapters. However, with the Panasonic ES10 and ES20 the only time you have direct control over chapters is when using DVD-RAM discs, which are more expensive than -RW or +/-R.

As far as sports are concerned, DVD recorders (because of MPEG compression) are not as good as VHS tapes at the 6hr mode. This one depends on your individual preferences. Some people only record 2 hours per DVD to avoid MPEG compression artifacts and things like macroblocking. I am not very picky, I can go up to 4hr 40 mins per disc. Anything longer gets too hazy/smoothed out even for me. I don't know how the Pioneers do, but some people claim they don't have as much macroblocking as Panasonic at the 4hr LP mode.

I don't use computers with DVDs so I can't answer any of the other questions, but with PCs you get a lot more editing choices and flexibility.

Panasonic didn't place them at the best of locations. When you press the [Display] button on the remote, one of the options that apperas on the screen is [Line-IN NR] - it applies noise reduction to the Line-In inputs (for recording). Another option is [MPEG-DNR], which is playback NR - it does not affect teh recording. The options displayed depend on the type of disc that's in the drive. If the disc is an off-the-shelf DVD or finalized you get different things than if you have a DVD-RAM disc inserted. There also appears to be a minor bug when writing to a fresh DVD-R/+R for the first time where some of the options may not be displayed after the recording finishes and TimeSlip does not work. This is easily cured by either opening/closing the tray or the power off/on or waking up after a Timer recording.

I haven't tested this but maybe if you don't have anything connected to the Line IN inputs, maybe the LineIN NR option is not displayed?

I believe the MPEG-DNR is almost always available. The LineIN NR option cannot be changed while a recording is in progress.

My setup is kinda messy, with generic cables, and switches/splitters, and an old TV, so I can't really make a distinction unless there is something that screams (eg macroblocking, haze, smoothing, etc). I did notice fewer artifacts if I record live to the ES20 rather than record on the DVR first (the double compression effect). I am assuming that the DVR converts/saves everything to MPEG2, otherwise it wouldn't be able to pause/rewind at any given moment. Some of the LP macroblocking of the ES20 is triggered by the compression of the DVR recording. Similar recordings made directly to the ES20 have fewer artifacts - they may still have some macroblockign but it is even less pronounced.


That seems consistent with my experience. Some artifacts seem to be introduced by the Comcast DVR compression - granted they don't advertise that their DVR is using a lossless format, but it's supposed to be an XP/SP mode. They advertise up to 60 hours of analog channels on a 120GB hard disc, but in practice, it is 33 hours (1 hour of analog TV is ALWAYS 3% of the hard disc, 3 hours are 9%, etc). The digital channels range from 1% to 3% per hour. Some digital channels are consistently at 1%, which is a bit better than their estimate of 90 hours. The HD channels seem to suffer the least from compression.



Do they have EPG problems if you only use manual recording? Although it is convinient to use the EPG-style, there are times when I am fighting with the stupid DVR interface, and it has some bugs (eg ghost programs that refuse to be deleted and Comcast CSRs that don't seem to be interested in acknowledging/fixing them).

My master plan is to replace the DVR with a HDD-based model, and then I can use the HDD-model along with the ES20 so I can record two things at once. The only thing they can't do is record digital channels using the RF tuner, and about half of what I watch is digital channels.

I agree with you that the user should have direct control over chapter placement or non-placement. To make it even less predictable, the chapter length depends on the recording mode. While it is uniform within the disc, it is not always 5-minutes. They are using some formula to calculate it.

I don't know if the chapter restriction is a format restriction or they just don't want to offer it.

I am not familiar with the HD-based models, so I can't answer those questions.

Your nickname has triggered a certain Yes song to playback in my head :-)

Disabling the RF input sounds like a bad idea! What are they thinking?


The good thing with the Comcast DVR is that there is absolutely no commitment. I can return it anytime for any reason and get a regular cable box, and pay no penalties. Despite its shortcomings however, it has exceeded my expectations. Being able to record 2 things at once (even 2 digital channels) while playing back something else at the same time is impressive.


That is absolutely true. None of the solutions are perfect. It's all about trade-offs. I don't do any PC post-processing either - partly b/c my PC doesnt have a DVD burner, but even if it did, I wouldn't be doing any post-processing.

Interesting stuff! So the rumors were not unfounded

As far as macroblocking, in my case, the Comcast DVR seems to deserve some of the credit (blame), along with the condition of the digital channels as they fly off the wire. 4hr 40 minute FR recording off the RF tuner is a reasonable compromise to me - in some cases and for some recordings.

Staggering releases in various markets seems to be a common practice at Panasonic, and I agree with you that it probably has to do with production capacity.

After you mentioned it, I paid closer attention to the faces on recorded shows on the DVR. In some cases, some faces looked like they had the surfaces of a Changeling from Star Trek!

The HDD-based models are definately more attractive for the long run, especially with the ability to high-speed transfer to DVD. Not being able to record digital channels off the RF cable is a minus though.

Does anyone know if future DVD recorders will be able (or allowed by the cable industry) to record digital channels off the RF cable? - Not necessary the premium digital channels like Showtime, HBO, but the digital basic channels that you get by default with digital cable???

You can definately do that with the ES20 by connecting the VCR to one of the line-in inputs of the ES20. Some of the options you can control with the ES20:
* Recording mode (XP, SP, LP, EP, FR)
* Line-In NR (Noise Reduction) ON or OFF
* Choice of media -RAM, -R, +R, -RW(V)
* input black level: darker or lighter

You can make multiple recordings per disc, as long as there is space, so if you have 15 VCR tapes of 5 minutes each, you can record them as 15 separate titles on a single DVD disc using the SP mode.

That is good to know! I am downloading the firmware update but I don't know if I am brave enough to install it :-)