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Owners Tweaks & Settings Sony KDSR-50/60XBR1 - Page 41

post #1201 of 1646
punisherofall : how do I check the convergence of my set?

DJRumpy : what is your sharpness on? I believe mine is on 40 something.
post #1202 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalgm View Post

punisherofall : how do I check the convergence of my set?

DJRumpy : what is your sharpness on? I believe mine is on 40 something.

you need a test dvd from digital video essentials or avia; I also believe thx certified dvd's have a crude version of this.
post #1203 of 1646
The thx tests are pretty useless. You definately need at least an AVIA disk. My sharpness is set at the defaults. When I checked my set using AVIA, all of the settings out of the box were perfect in regards to brightless, red/green/blue, saturation, etc.

Since your using an HTPC, you can also download patters (search google) and display them on your TV via your mediapc.

My sharpness setting is 35.
post #1204 of 1646
i just picked up a 50 inch sxrd last friday and i have a question.

im getting some motion bluring when watching sports and basicaly anything that moves fast in hd. does anyone know any way to fix this problem?
post #1205 of 1646
I've seen some motion blurring if you have the noise reduction up too high. You might also play with the cinemotion settings.

What is sending the signal to your set? A cable box, or dish box? Also, what mode is it sending to your set?
post #1206 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

I've seen some motion blurring if you have the noise reduction up too high. You might also play with the cinemotion settings.

What is sending the signal to your set? A cable box, or dish box? Also, what mode is it sending to your set?

i have the noise reduction off. i am useing comcast cable set to 1080i. i tried switching to 720p but i found that 1080i was much better for me. i will try playing around with the cinemotion settings. does anyone have any recomendations for the cinemotion settings?
post #1207 of 1646
OK - Have taken some pictures of the issues that I am having. I saved the images at a slightly high quality setting so I apologize for the size but I just wanted to make sure you guys could see what was going on wrong. In 1.jpg observe the ghosting around the letters and icons. 2.jpg is a closeup of this.

Thanks,
AdamR

edit: just to add some more data to this - these pictures were captured using a TOTALLY different display card (ATI AIW 9600). The symptoms are the same.
LL
LL
post #1208 of 1646
As far as your blurry problem, it looks like the image is over driven. Try reducing the brightness a little, and the sharpness. You should also turn off any edge enhancement and possibly increase your contrast.

I would definately suggest you get an avia disk or something similar so you can do some basic calibration.

I don't think your problem is convergence, as the halo appears to completely surround your text, rather than being on one side or the other.

Check back a few pages for some basic suggested settings and try setting yours to the same.
post #1209 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

As far as your blurry problem, it looks like the image is over driven. Try reducing the brightness a little, and the sharpness. You should also turn off any edge enhancement and possibly increase your contrast.

I would definately suggest you get an avia disk or something similar so you can do some basic calibration.

I don't think your problem is convergence, as the halo appears to completely surround your text, rather than being on one side or the other.

Check back a few pages for some basic suggested settings and try setting yours to the same.

I found an Avia disk on Amazon but it says it was made in 1999... is that right?

Here it is
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/630...v=glance&n=130
post #1210 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Slacker, remember the TV displays only 1080p. It doesn't matter if you send it 480, 720, or 1080 lines. It will convert anything to 1080. The only difference is WHO does the conversion. I've found the tv generally does the best job of scaling.

That said, I send the tv 480p from DVD since 480p is actually native to progressive dvd.
From the cable box, I send 1080i since It doesn't have a true passthru mode.
From the mediapc, I send it 720P, simply because I find the default text size to be perfect on the 60" set using 720P

when the DVD player is set to 480, doesnt that mean it's only sending 480 lines of resolution. where as 1080 is sending 1080 lines, which is many more lines which would make a much higher resolution?
post #1211 of 1646
sl@cker,

The thing you need to understand is that the image recorded on the dvd only has a resolution of 480. So if you output at 480, you're just sending the image in its original resolution. The problem is that with the SXRD, everything you feed it must be upscaled to the set's native resolution of 1080. So, with a dvd, somewhere along the line, a lot of extra pixels need to be added (essentially "made up") to make up the difference between 480 and 1080. This is what a scaler does. There's one in the tv, and there's another one in every uscaling dvd player. The question is whether to use the one in the dvd player (by outputting at 1080), the one in the tv (by outputting at 480) or both (for example, by outputting at 720).

The best way to answer this question is to try different combinations and see what looks best to you.
post #1212 of 1646
SL@CKER: I give up. I've said the same thing in I don't know how many different variations. Your just not reading the answer or just not understaning the basic idea of upscaling. Go back and re-read the last 10 answers to your same question

digitalgm: Yes, that sounds right. Just make sure that the disk you buy includes the color filters!
post #1213 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Slacker, you have to remember that this set has only one display mode 1080p, meaning anything you feed it must be converted to 1080p, be that 480 i/p, 720p, or 1080i. If I recall, this set converts directly from 1080i to 1080P by extrapolating between fields, rather than taking half of the fields which drops vertical resolution to 540p, and then scaling 540P to 1080P.

Personally, I let the TV do the scaling, and send it a 480P signal from my dvd player.

Again, your asking us to tell you what looks good on your set

Just try the various different modes and combinations and see which looks best using your hardware, to your eyes.

480p is a good resolution for component; however, the HDMI 480p input is over filtered and you lose resolution. If you are using HDMI and want the set to do the upconversion, you are better off with 480i.
post #1214 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

digitalgm: Yes, that sounds right. Just make sure that the disk you buy includes the color filters!

DJRumpy : are the color filters a physical item or are they on the disk? Thank you.
post #1215 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post

480p is a good resolution for component; however, the HDMI 480p input is over filtered and you lose resolution. If you are using HDMI and want the set to do the upconversion, you are better off with 480i.

I am using HDMI. My DVD displays in 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Is it better to do an interlaced signal rather then a progressive signal when using an HDMI cable? Also, do you guys set the power saver to "reduced" or "normal" on the KDSR-50/60XBR1 ? thanks guys!
post #1216 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalgm View Post

DJRumpy : are the color filters a physical item or are they on the disk? Thank you.


3 seperate physical filters. one each of red, green and blue.

Sometimes you'll have problems with the green being accurate is it leaks some blue light. Unless you're trying to calibrate a color decoder, that won't be of any consequence to you.
post #1217 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by sl@cker View Post

I am using HDMI. My DVD displays in 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Is it better to do an interlaced signal rather then a progressive signal when using an HDMI cable? Also, do you guys set the power saver to "reduced" or "normal" on the KDSR-50/60XBR1 ? thanks guys!

anybody know? thanks!
post #1218 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by sl@cker View Post

I am using HDMI. My DVD displays in 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Is it better to do an interlaced signal rather then a progressive signal when using an HDMI cable? Also, do you guys set the power saver to "reduced" or "normal" on the KDSR-50/60XBR1 ? thanks guys!

Not sure where the previous person was getting their info. For HDMI, it is pure digital, from source to display, so it just falls to how good the up-converters/deinterlacers are at each point in the chain. (You don't have to worry about the DACs, Digital-to-Analog Converters, for HDMI.)

Now, if the processor in the DVD player is better than the TV, then have the DVD player process it and send it a 1080i, or you could try 720p. If the TV is better, then you could send it in either 480i or 480p, but even sending it in 480p would assume that the DVDs deinterlacer was better than the TV's. Now, if the DVD was actually encoded in progressive, it may be best to leave it a 480p.


But, here's what it all comes down to, you probably won't be able to tell one from another. Most processors are pretty good on DVDs and the processor in the Sony is really good. I would suggest putting in something like The Fifth Element and going to the city chase scene. Try it a different settings and see what looks best to you. If you have a decently priced DVD player, I bet setting it at 1080i would be just fine.


Keith
post #1219 of 1646
I have the high end Toshiba single DVD player. I was watching Star Wars, and at a glance the 480p seemed to look better then the 720p and 1080i. That was just one test though. I've seen a few other people say they prefer the 480p picture quality over the others. I have noticed the DVD player loads/thinks alot longer when it's in 1080i mode versus 480p/720p.
post #1220 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

HD AV: 720p isn't interlaced You've got it backwards.

If you send the tv 720p, it will resize it to 1920x1080p.

If you send the tv 1080i, it will deinterlace and if necessary, resize to 1080p.

I'm not sure what method the hardware uses to deinterlace though. It could do it two ways. Either take only one of the video fields (half the horizontal height of 1080i = 540p) which deinterlaces the video as a result, or it may just extrapolate between the two fields and not have to resize at all.

You misread my post. The first part was a quote. After the quote, I plainly said if you send the set a 720p signal, it displays 720 PROGRESSIVE. It does not change the input signal except for scaling to fit the display. This is NOT a conversion to 1080p. You can not get more resolution displayed than the source can provide. You are still watching 720p resolution SCALED to fit the display. The same holds true for upscaling DVD players. They can output a 720p or 1080i signal but you still only have 480 lines of "true" resolution. How good it looks depends on the quality of the scaler and whether you choose to let the player convert/scale or the TV. If you want the SXRD to do the better job (unless you have a $$$$ reference player) , it must be sent an INTERLACED signal. DRC does not work with progressive signals and DRC is what creates (up to 4X) "enhanced" resolution from 480i (and also uses CineMotion 3/2 pulldown for 480i and 1080i sources). Read the intro to features and then page 82 of the manual. If you are scepticable, I suggest you talk with a knowledgable SONY technician.
post #1221 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD AV View Post

You misread my post. The first part was a quote. After the quote, I plainly said if you send the set a 720p signal, it displays 720 PROGRESSIVE. It does not change the input signal except for scaling to fit the display. This is NOT a conversion to 1080p. You can not get more resolution displayed than the source can provide. You are still watching 720p resolution SCALED to fit the display. The same holds true for upscaling DVD players. They can output a 720p or 1080i signal but you still only have 480 lines of "true" resolution. How good it looks depends on the quality of the scaler and whether you choose to let the player convert/scale or the TV. If you want the SXRD to do the better job (unless you have a $$$$ reference player) , it must be sent an INTERLACED signal. DRC does not work with progressive signals and DRC is what creates (up to 4X) "enhanced" resolution from 480i (and also uses CineMotion 3/2 pulldown for 480i and 1080i sources). Read the intro to features and then page 82 of the manual. If you are scepticable, I suggest you talk with a knowledgable SONY technician.

HD AV: so you are saying I should set the DVD player to 1080i and in Cinemotion mode? when i was watching a DVD in 1080i mode, I was watching for quite a while in Cinemotion mode. I switched to DRC mode 1, and the picture seemed to be noticably better..
post #1222 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by leoday View Post

Consider this.. When you put in the dvd modes you also have to consider the lip sync issue.

Whoa, this is the first time I've heard that the various modes affect lip sync. Which lags the most? FWIW, I have a Denon 1920 and the 50" SXRD. Also, would there also be a difference between modes and lip sync with respect to my Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD?
post #1223 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromax View Post

Whoa, this is the first time I've heard that the various modes affect lip sync. Which lags the most? FWIW, I have a Denon 1920 and the 50" SXRD. Also, would there also be a difference between modes and lip sync with respect to my Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD?

What if you play a Milli Vanilli DVD, what would be the lip sync hit for that DVD?! sorry, couldn't resist! Any way, do most of you guys use the "reduced" setting for the power saver on the KDSR-50/60XBR1 ?
post #1224 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by sl@cker View Post

HD AV: so you are saying I should set the DVD player to 1080i and in Cinemotion mode? when i was watching a DVD in 1080i mode, I was watching for quite a while in Cinemotion mode. I switched to DRC mode 1, and the picture seemed to be noticably better..

Any DVD shot in film (pretty much all movies) should have the SXRD set for Cinemotion because that is where you get the needed 3-2 pulldown that gives optimal deinterlacing. When the SXRD is set for Cinemotion and a video source is input, it will automatically fall back into the DRC setting/mode. As far I know, all the experts recommend that the set be set/left on Cinemotion.
post #1225 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD AV View Post

You misread my post. The first part was a quote. After the quote, I plainly said if you send the set a 720p signal, it displays 720 PROGRESSIVE. It does not change the input signal except for scaling to fit the display. This is NOT a conversion to 1080p. You can not get more resolution displayed than the source can provide. You are still watching 720p resolution SCALED to fit the display. The same holds true for upscaling DVD players. They can output a 720p or 1080i signal but you still only have 480 lines of "true" resolution. How good it looks depends on the quality of the scaler and whether you choose to let the player convert/scale or the TV. If you want the SXRD to do the better job (unless you have a $$$$ reference player) , it must be sent an INTERLACED signal. DRC does not work with progressive signals and DRC is what creates (up to 4X) "enhanced" resolution from 480i (and also uses CineMotion 3/2 pulldown for 480i and 1080i sources). Read the intro to features and then page 82 of the manual. If you are scepticable, I suggest you talk with a knowledgable SONY technician.

The set is incapable of displaying 720p. Everything it receives is deinterlaced and/or scaled to 1080p.

As far as 480i vs 480p, in general the SXRD does better with 480i via HDMI and 480p via component because of filtering (excessive for 480p via HDMI and 480i via component).

If you have a native 720p source (ABC, FOX, ESPN, etc.) you will probably get a better picture if your STB outputs 720p. If it is a native 1080i source, the picture will probably optimal if your STB outputs 1080i. This is because the video processes are minimized. Most seem to prefer setting upconverting DVD players to 1080i because the most common upconverting chip (Faroudja) probably does a little better job scaling up to 1080 than the SXRD.

Most don't seem to want the DRC mode to do very much (i.e., they tend to set it for 1,1) to minimize artifacts. The set will "create" a 1920:1080 picture whether receiving an interlaced or progressive.
post #1226 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by sl@cker View Post

What if you play a Milli Vanilli DVD, what would be the lip sync hit for that DVD?! sorry, couldn't resist! Any way, do most of you guys use the "reduced" setting for the power saver on the KDSR-50/60XBR1 ?

In general, SXRD processing introduces a lip sync of approximately 34ms-40ms. That is because it holds 5 fields in a buffer for processing (deinterlacing).

I don't use the power saver. General consensus seems to be that it increases any tendency toward a "green blob" because it doesn't come up to operating temperature as quick as in the normal mode. My ISF tech definitely left it in the normal mode.
post #1227 of 1646
Rib(and whoever else): do you use the settings listed here for your TV?:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7446179

Also, most tweak threads seem to say put sharpness at around 25-35. I find this makes way too many sharp, un natural edges on the picture. anyone else notice this?
post #1228 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post


I don't use the power saver. General consensus seems to be that it increases any tendency toward a "green blob" because it doesn't come up to operating temperature as quick as in the normal mode. My ISF tech definitely left it in the normal mode.

I don't use it anymore...definitely less "green" tendency.
post #1229 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by sl@cker View Post

Rib(and whoever else): do you use the settings listed here for your TV?:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7446179

Also, most tweak threads seem to say put sharpness at around 25-35. I find this makes way too many sharp, un natural edges on the picture. anyone else notice this?

could someone give their thoughts on my above post? thanks!
post #1230 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by sl@cker View Post

could someone give their thoughts on my above post? thanks!

Patience, Grasshopper. Oddly enough, it can take more than an hour to get a response.

From your post, it is clear you would be happier decreasing the sharpness setting. Do so and be content.

Some decrease the sharpness to as low as it will go; others, to ~25; others yet, to higher settings. Season to taste.
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