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Owners Tweaks & Settings Sony KDSR-50/60XBR1 - Page 45

post #1321 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by SrDhUS View Post

Do you think the barnd of the HDMI cable matters? Do you see any interlacing when watching action movies?

Thanks

I don't think brand is that important for HDMI cables, although I have good HDMI cables. I see NO artifacts (macroblocking, smearing, interlace artifacts) when viewing action movies. Even "fire" looks like fire and not blocks.
post #1322 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by SrDhUS View Post

Do you think the barnd of the HDMI cable matters? Do you see any interlacing when watching action movies?

Thanks

According to these folks it does . . .

http://www.electronichouse.com/info/...mi_basics.html



CD: What should consumers know about HDMI cables?

SV: To consumers, perhaps the most tangible move from an analog connection to a digital one is the physical cable itself. After all, the complicated technology that is happening inside the DVD or HDTV is invisible to all but the engineers who design these systems. So what is there to know about an HDMI cable that is any different from what we know about analog cables? Lots!

The tolerances for HDMI cables are incredibly tight. Because a digital signal is comprised of 1s and 0s, sent over four channels with 19 pins inside the cable, and because these 1s and 0s need to start and end at the exact same time, the manufacturing tolerances for cables are very high. It's for that reason that cables must be tested at an HDMI Authorized Testing Center before they can be marked with the HDMI logo. It also why it is impractical (if not impossible) to splice and crimp an HDMI cable at home (you would need to cut each strand within 1/20,000th of an inch to ensure that it would work).

Fatter cables do not necessarily mean better signals. Previously, fat cables were deemed superior because the copper was thicker and the cables carried more shielding. Additional shielding reduced the likelihood of interference between the copper strands, which led to a better signal.

In the world of digital cables, there's no need for shielding since there is no possibility of interference within a cable. As for the thickness of copper, however, thicker copper will be able to extend the length of a digital signal, but for shorter cable lengths (two meters and under), there is no need for overly thick copper strands. In fact, thicker cables can sometimes be problematic since they are less flexible to bend around sharp corners and the increased weight can cause them to fall out of vertically mounted connectors.

Perhaps the most confusing aspect of an HDMI cable is cable length - how long can an HDMI cable go? You need to be careful when looking at cables that run 5 meters or longer. At these lengths, the manufacturing quality of cables has everything to do with whether or not they will work at longer lengths. For very long cabling needs, there are cable extender products that effectively boost the signal and extend the effective cable length. In addition, some HDTVs are designed with HDMI electronics that have greater sensitivity and active equalizer technology to accommodate longer cable lengths. In all cases, make sure you look at products that have the HDMI logo on them. This ensures that the product has been tested at one of the HDMI Authorized Testing Centers and meets the HDMI specification.
post #1323 of 1646
hey im new here and i have the 60 inch SXRD. I wanted to know if there were any good settings for black levels and colors that a lot of people decided that were the "best".
post #1324 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by hddvd2 View Post

hey im new here and i have the 60 inch SXRD. I wanted to know if there were any good settings for black levels and colors that a lot of people decided that were the "best".

Best to search earlier in this thread. It's a lot to go through, but it's worth it!
Welcome!
post #1325 of 1646
Has anyone discovered a way in the service menu to tweak the vertical convergence settings? My 50SXRD green is about 1-2 pixels off vertically, causing a magenta edge on top of a white line. I'm reluctant to return the TV, as otherwise it does very well, and it seems a shame to put such a set into the "open box" category. I know a 2-pixel adjustment was discovered for horizontal convergence; and I am hoping there is something similar for vertical.

Thanks for any help!
post #1326 of 1646
A question about advanced iris. My understanding is that the advanced iris analyzes the amount of black and/or white in an image and reduces the white level to compensate. Therefore, on dark images the iris is reduced, to preserve blacks, and on bright images the iris is opened, to enhance brightness.

I was watching a letterboxed image, and it seemed darker than it should have been. And that got me wondering. Wouldn't the SXRD in advanced iris mode read letterboxing in a movie or TV channel as black in the image, and therefore potentially reduce the iris beyond what is appropriate for the scene?

In my limited experiments with my new 60", it seems that the brightness is definitely lower with letterboxed material (or side boxed, as in the case of 4/3 material on HD channels). I'm tempted, therefore, to turn off advanced iris, but I do not want to lose the enhanced contrast range it offers. Any thoughts about this issue?
post #1327 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by datbeme View Post

I suspect it's either the DVDs or your setting...or both (the link to your settings doesn't work). I have the same player and the same TV, and I find the combination to be stellar--far superior to the players I initially tried. I get the best results with the player converting to 1080i.

Discs can quite variable though. What "action movies" are you talking about? Maybe others have some experience with them.

I believe this is due to TV settings. Would you please post your TV settings?

Thanks
post #1328 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by poffypoffa View Post

A question about advanced iris. My understanding is that the advanced iris analyzes the amount of black and/or white in an image and reduces the white level to compensate. Therefore, on dark images the iris is reduced, to preserve blacks, and on bright images the iris is opened, to enhance brightness.

I was watching a letterboxed image, and it seemed darker than it should have been. And that got me wondering. Wouldn't the SXRD in advanced iris mode read letterboxing in a movie or TV channel as black in the image, and therefore potentially reduce the iris beyond what is appropriate for the scene?

In my limited experiments with my new 60", it seems that the brightness is definitely lower with letterboxed material (or side boxed, as in the case of 4/3 material on HD channels). I'm tempted, therefore, to turn off advanced iris, but I do not want to lose the enhanced contrast range it offers. Any thoughts about this issue?

On a similar topic, I recently had my 60"SXRD ISF'd. When it was complete, it was (and is) stunning. there's no other word to describe it. Money very well spent.

Anyway, one of the adjustments that I noticed when he was finished was that my advanced iris was turned off. Although the picture looks great, I questioned my ISF tech regarding this via email because I wasn't clear on what made him make that setting change. I was also concerned about compromising the blacks in dark vs bright scenes. I didn't see an issue with the end picture but it surprised me that he'd turn it off. His response was that during his calibration, it appeared that using the AI reduced gamma on the stepped gray scale pattern that he'd used -- and that wasn't a good thing. A few days later, he then did some experimentation with a different Sony set (A10 LCD) that also has the advanced iris capability. His comment after that was that he could easily see the dark background changing when the AI function kicked in. He said the problem was that there is perhaps a 1/2 second delay (and even some overshoot - particularly on the Max setting) with the changing of the Iris, so you could really notice the change and it was distracting. His final recommendation was that the best setting for the advanced iris (if one wants to use it at all) is the highest you can set it at and not notice the Iris actually changing.


I've not seen a lot of discussion regarding the Advanced Iris it's settings and use and would be interested in comments about the above.
post #1329 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by SrDhUS View Post

Do you think the barnd of the HDMI cable matters? Thanks

yes. The JSI Brand upconvert dvd player comes with an HDMI cable. When used between the Toshiba plasma and the HD-DVD player, it was much worse than the supplied HDMI cable from toshiba.
post #1330 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by lflorack View Post

On a similar topic, I recently had my 60"SXRD ISF'd. When it was complete, it was (and is) stunning. there's no other word to describe it. Money very well spent.

Anyway, one of the adjustments that I noticed when he was finished was that my advanced iris was turned off. Although the picture looks great, I questioned my ISF tech regarding this via email because I wasn't clear on what made him make that setting change. I was also concerned about compromising the blacks in dark vs bright scenes. I didn't see an issue with the end picture but it surprised me that he'd turn it off. His response was that during his calibration, it appeared that using the AI reduced gamma on the stepped gray scale pattern that he'd used -- and that wasn't a good thing. A few days later, he then did some experimentation with a different Sony set (A10 LCD) that also has the advanced iris capability. His comment after that was that he could easily see the dark background changing when the AI function kicked in. He said the problem was that there is perhaps a 1/2 second delay (and even some overshoot - particularly on the Max setting) with the changing of the Iris, so you could really notice the change and it was distracting. His final recommendation was that the best setting for the advanced iris (if one wants to use it at all) is the highest you can set it at and not notice the Iris actually changing.


I've not seen a lot of discussion regarding the Advanced Iris it's settings and use and would be interested in comments about the above.

My ISF resulted in a Advanced Iris setting of "low". Chad B did the ISF (he ownes an SXRD and is very familiar with the set). I never notice the Iris changing.

Regarding his gamma concerns, it can be adjusted accordingly.

Most consider advanced iris a valuable feature. In fact, more manufacturers are adding it as a feature. So, my "gut feel" would make me tend to not want to turn it off.
post #1331 of 1646
Hello
I've had my KDS60XBR1 hooked up for about a week now. From the get go I've been dissapointed in my PQ. DVD images have a lot of SSE and look horribly grainy. Even cable HDTV looks bad (Comcast cable via HDMI). I know these sets are capable of a lot more. I have tried a variety of the settings listed in the thread....and am mostly using the KTTV Images settings provided. I finally got a copy of DVE and tried last night to make some adjustments. I set contrast without a problem. Colors look good. The problem is with sharpness. When the sharpness test screen is up and I run the scale with the sharpness setting, the pattern does not change. It does not look good...no clean lines. I realize that DVD quality varies...but I'm assuming something like the sharpness pattern on DVE should be pretty standard.

I currently have all the little extras like Detail Enhance and DTE set to off. My DRC is set to 1,1. I am using an Oppo OPDV971H player hooked up via the DVI/HDMI cable. The Oppo is setup with sharpness turned off (I tried the other settings and no change occured). All other setup items are off or 0 on the Oppo.

I don't want to do the ISF thing yet as the TV is brand new and I plan to add new sources (HD-DVD/Blue Ray ) in the next 6-12 months.

Where do I go from here?
post #1332 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by heprat View Post

Hello
I've had my KDS60XBR1 hooked up for about a week now. From the get go I've been dissapointed in my PQ. DVD images have a lot of SSE and look horribly grainy. Even cable HDTV looks bad (Comcast cable via HDMI). I know these sets are capable of a lot more. I have tried a variety of the settings listed in the thread....and am mostly using the KTTV Images settings provided. I finally got a copy of DVE and tried last night to make some adjustments. I set contrast without a problem. Colors look good. The problem is with sharpness. When the sharpness test screen is up and I run the scale with the sharpness setting, the pattern does not change. It does not look good...no clean lines. I realize that DVD quality varies...but I'm assuming something like the sharpness pattern on DVE should be pretty standard.

I currently have all the little extras like Detail Enhance and DTE set to off. My DRC is set to 1,1. I am using an Oppo OPDV971H player hooked up via the DVI/HDMI cable. The Oppo is setup with sharpness turned off (I tried the other settings and no change occured). All other setup items are off or 0 on the Oppo.

I don't want to do the ISF thing yet as the TV is brand new and I plan to add new sources (HD-DVD/Blue Ray ) in the next 6-12 months.

Where do I go from here?

You are right. The set is capable of much more than you are getting! I didn't go back to look at the KTTV images recommendations; but as I remember, they are pretty standard. I believe the ISF provides a significant benefit; however, the SXRD is capable of an outstanding picture after merely adjusting user controls with Avia or DVE. By the way, please confirm that you are on Pro, Warm; and what are your current settings for contrast/picture, brightness, and sharpness for both the DVD and STB inputs.
If I were you, I would hook up some component cables to the DVD player or STB and see if that improves the picture. If it does, the issue is with HDMI (cables, outputting components, or HDMI on the SXRD itself).

If sharpness doesn't seem to adjust, I would set it on 16. That seems to be a level that ensures no edge enhancement artifacts.

You didn't say what resolution you are outputting from the Oppo. Given the Faroudja chip in the Oppo, you should probably get the best results outputting 1080i for the SXRD.
post #1333 of 1646
thanks for the quick response rlb

I had thought about the component cables for the STB and will try that tonight. If I recall on the Oppo...it does not upconvert over component however I'm willing to try that as well and just let the tv do the conversion. I also have some standard 480p DVD players around and will try to use them as well to see if there is a problem with the Oppo. I have both the Comcast STB and the Oppo set to 1080i (480i from the STB for SD). I had tried 720p from both and did not see much of a change.

I am definately using the Pro Warm mode. Everything else is default. I'm OK with the color and am as of now mostly focused on this sharpness issue. It seems like there should be some change to the pattern.


Picture Mode: Pro
Iris: 2
Picture: default
Brightness: 38 or so
Color: default
Hue: default
Sharpness: 15 (no affect from changing though)
Color Temp: Warm

Noise Reduction: Off
Direct Mode: Off
DRC: Cinemotion
DRC: Custom 3 (reality 1, clarity 1)
Advanced Iris: off
Color Corrector: Off
DTE: Off
Clear White: Off
Detail Enhancer: Off
Black Corrector: Off
Gamma Corrector: Off
post #1334 of 1646
heprat, you're right in that the Oppo doesn't do up conversion through component (at least the 971). However, their component output is quite subpar, so it wouldn't be worth passing that to your set for upconversion really. Bottom line: if you can't use the Oppo 971 with the DVI output, you should be using a different player.
post #1335 of 1646
tmeader...I thought that was right. I'll just pull one of my other players and run via component.
post #1336 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by heprat View Post

Picture Mode: Pro
Iris: 2
Picture: default
Brightness: 38 or so
Color: default
Hue: default
Sharpness: 15 (no affect from changing though)
Color Temp: Warm

Noise Reduction: Off
Direct Mode: Off
DRC: Cinemotion
DRC: Custom 3 (reality 1, clarity 1)
Advanced Iris: off
Color Corrector: Off
DTE: Off
Clear White: Off
Detail Enhancer: Off
Black Corrector: Off
Gamma Corrector: Off

Perhaps you're having color space issues going from DVI on the Oppo to HDMI on the SXRD??? Can you see BTB? The reason I say that, my HD-A1 hooked up to my set:

Picture: default(58) <-- 48
Brightness: 38 or so <-- 29

I used AVIA and THX optimizer to calibrate. If your black level is set too high, you tend to get a lot of grain.

Good Luck.

Jeff
post #1337 of 1646
Jeff
Not exactly sure what BTB is (I'm guessing blacker than black??). Using the image on DVE that has the gray to white thing in the middle and the three bars on either side...I can set brightness low enough that the outside bars go away. Sorry I'm lost
post #1338 of 1646
heprat... "Blacker Than Black".

You can easily test for this using any DVD with THX Optimode (at least I think they all include that test). I know the Incredibles one does if you have that disk. In the test there is a drop-shadow behind the THX logo that is in the BTB range. If your TV can show it, then BTB is getting passed successfully.
post #1339 of 1646
happens that I have "the Incredibles" ... I'll check that tonight thanks
post #1340 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by heprat View Post

Jeff
Not exactly sure what BTB is (I'm guessing blacker than black??). Using the image on DVE that has the gray to white thing in the middle and the three bars on either side...I can set brightness low enough that the outside bars go away. Sorry I'm lost

Yes, blacker than black. I know the sets show it, but does the oppo pass it via DVI-->HDMI? If not, that could be some of the issue. Use the THX optimizer as stated by tmeader. I think that would help.

Jeff
post #1341 of 1646
CCsoftball, the 971 itself does pass BTB. Only thing that would cause it not to show would be a bad DVI->HDMI cable I think. Either way, can't hurt to check I guess.
post #1342 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post

My ISF resulted in a Advanced Iris setting of "low". Chad B did the ISF (he ownes an SXRD and is very familiar with the set). I never notice the Iris changing.

Regarding his gamma concerns, it can be adjusted accordingly.

Most consider advanced iris a valuable feature. In fact, more manufacturers are adding it as a feature. So, my "gut feel" would make me tend to not want to turn it off.

Thanks for the feedback. Again, it's not that the picture seems to be suffering in any way because the Advanced Iris is turned off after my TV was ISF'd, but it makes me think about it. I'll experiment a bit with the Advanced Iris setting at low and see what happens.
post #1343 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCsoftball7 View Post

Perhaps you're having color space issues going from DVI on the Oppo to HDMI on the SXRD??? Can you see BTB? The reason I say that, my HD-A1 hooked up to my set:

Picture: default(58) <-- 48
Brightness: 38 or so <-- 29

I used AVIA and THX optimizer to calibrate. If your black level is set too high, you tend to get a lot of grain.

Good Luck.

Jeff

I also use lower picture/brightness after my ISF. Defaults were reset to 50/31
respectively. These are applicable to the Iris being on 2.
post #1344 of 1646
I loaded Incredibles and ran the THX optimizer. Definately getting BTB. Contrast also looked good via the test. Still no sharpness adjustment. Maybe I'm not seeing it....is it that subtle? The DVE demo of sharpness showed some change. I don't see it.

Tried component out from the STB. No noticible improvement. Still lots of SSE.

I'm leaveing to go to St Louis for a funeral so I won't be back until Sunday. I'll try a different DVD player then.
post #1345 of 1646
heprat, you might try adjusting the Sony's DRC Custom 3 settings from the 1,1 you have now upward (ex; 20,20 or higher) and see if that lets you have more control of the sharpness.
I know some SXRD owners on this forum have the 1,1 setting, trying to get a film like image; unfortunately as we all know DVD's are not created equal...never mind whats shown on TV. If you find this improves your sharpness you can leave this setting for your DVD input and have a different set of adjustments for other inputs (TV).
post #1346 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkk View Post

Does the VSFTRB move the entire screen (RB and G)?

I am trying to find the vertical convergence correction in the service menu to see if I can eliminate the red error I Have across the whole screen.

This is the option that was supplied by another poster on this forum. It appears to move both red and blue at the same time. Yet from the post above, it appears as if it may shift the entire image. Sorry if I am misreading this. Just a little confused.

Thanks guys for all your help. I want to gather as much knowledge as I can before doing this. I am treading lightly here. Do not want to make something worse than it already is I may just have a tech come out, but the one I had before knew nothing about service menu adjustments for convergence.

Thanks.
Mike

I am glad to report that VSFTRB seems to move just Red and Blue. I just used it to correct most of my vertical convergence problem. My April '05 build 50" SXRD had green shifted down 1-2 pixels--worse on the right half of screen. This meant that on any white lines or blocks, I saw a magenta edge on the top. Going into the service menu, I found that VSFTRB was = 1. I set it to = 0. This completly corrected the MC problem on the right third of the screen. On the left, I now have green

I wish Sony had given us 1-pixel adjustments. But, I'm happy.
post #1347 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by yet2b View Post

My April '05 build 50" SXRD

???
i bought my in oct 05 before they hit the streets?
post #1348 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjufon View Post

???
i bought my in oct 05 before they hit the streets?

Typo, meant to say April 06 build--have had it a month, so not the latest build they could have given me, but close...
post #1349 of 1646
I've had mine for 3 months now and still no problems...
post #1350 of 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by heprat View Post

Still no sharpness adjustment. Maybe I'm not seeing it....is it that subtle? The DVE demo of sharpness showed some change. I don't see it..

Heprat
On your sharpness control problem:

There are 4 different Sharpness adjustments on the SXRD sets. In my experience this degree of control is outanding and unlike any other brand of 1080p dispaly I have seen.

1. Sharpness
2. DRC settings. Note that you must be inputting an interlaced signal because the DRC control is not accessible if the input is progressive.
3. DTE (Texture enhancement)
4. Detail Enhancer (Edge enhancement)

The amount of sharpness you setup on the last 3 controls is modified by the 1st control. In other words if you use lots of texture or/and Detail enhancement and some DRC and then set the Sharpness control to 0 there will be no sharpness enhancement at all. This leads to the point that to see if your sharpness control works you must increase the sharpness--only for test purposes - to maximum -and see if you see any differences

These sharpness controls have a very significant effect on the image. if you see no effect I worry that your set is defective. It is important to use a test image that easily can show the effect of sharpnesss. I am not aware of any specific sharpness test image on the DVE test disk.

What test image are you looking at when you try to adjust sharpness?

I think the best test image on DVE is the test with a large round circle a small cross in the middle. Look at the effect of sharpness on the edges of the cross in both the horizontal and vertical directions. Excess sharpness will produce a white outline around the lines. If your controls (set at maximum) do not produce this effect at all there has to be something wrong with the set. I hope this is not the case.

By the way the best sharpness test image is the Sharpness test image on the Avia test disk. The issue here is the amount of excessive ringing that appears on the vertical lines. This is a function of the DVD player with the best players showing very little ringing (perhaps 1 white outline) and with most players showing 3 rings on each side of the vertical lines.

Good luck

KTTV Images
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