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Verizon FiOS HDTV - Page 541

post #16201 of 17548
1/4/12 at 5:21am
I see 508(News channel 8 HD) is up today in the DC area.
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post #16202 of 17548
1/4/12 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

Wow...thats not good...for me.
I was watching some of "Chopped". I saw it on real close up shots when they were chopping the food up.
Why in the world do I see it and 2x Fios techs see it, and they can't fix it.

EDIT: Ken, which Fios box do you have?

This conversation is very interesting and frightening. Are you using a 7 series box, and if so, is it outputting native resolution? If not, maybe your set isn't doing a good job scaling the resolution from the box to the set's native resolution (or vice versa w/ those channels' output if you are using native resolution).

Doug
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post #16203 of 17548
1/4/12 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeny View Post

This is good news. All these negative PQ posts are making me question my scheduled move from D* to V* in May. Maybe you're on to something here. Maybe there is some PQ loss going from the DVR to the TV as you're not seeing it from your Cable Card source as others are reporting?

While waiting several years for FIOS here (midtown Manhattan) for my mid-Jan triple-play install, also wondered about mediocre PQ comments in the NYC-Verizon local-HD thread. Ran a "PQ" search and commented recently about the results. Guess that was mostly cable systems versus FIOS, not D*, through.

Perhaps these mixed PQ comments (pixel block breakups with motion/details) involve statistical multiplexing (variable bitrates and timings between channels to maximize bandwidth use, with MPEG-4 distribution not discussed in the '04 link), either on uplinks/downlinks or cable-system/FIOS head ends. Seems like rapid motion with detailed images developing at the same time among statmuxed channels might overwhelm the hardware--even with the 'look-ahead' data-timing delays introduced years ago to help minimize this. Or, if still heavily used, maybe the head end in the sky (a '06 description) needs an upgrade.

Guess I'll have a few weeks to A-B my current TWC hookup and FIOS, which might point to a source problem instead of head ends; (if both show pixel breakups with detail/motion.) -- John
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post #16204 of 17548
1/4/12 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougotte View Post

This conversation is very interesting and frightening. Are you using a 7 series box, and if so, is it outputting native resolution? If not, maybe your set isn't doing a good job scaling the resolution from the box to the set's native resolution (or vice versa w/ those channels' output if you are using native resolution).

Doug

I have my QIP7232-2 DVR set to 1080i output 16:9.
The TV is a Sharp Elite Pro70X. The Fios DVR is connected via a HDMI 1.4 high speed cable from Mono Price.

I also have the D* box set to 1080i. I don't use native mode here because it takes too long to the D* box to change from channel to channel.


A side note:
Talking with some co-workers who have Fios.
I have heard from one co-worker that since FW 1.9 was installed, he has seen the pixelation as well on Nat Geo. Prior to 1.9, he saw no pixelation.

Could be a hint.
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post #16205 of 17548
1/4/12 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeny View Post

Free but with fewer offerings.

This is good news. All these negative PQ posts are making me question my scheduled move from D* to V* in May. Maybe you're on to something here. Maybe there is some PQ loss going from the DVR to the TV as you're not seeing it from your Cable Card source as others are reporting?

Wouldn't worry if I were you. Had D* for a decade, switched to FIOS two years ago and haven't been tempted to return to D* once. I'm not sure what's happening with that guy's setup, but there was really no comparison for me. FIOS PQ was a clear winner. Macro-blocking - or whatever the hell it's being called these days - basically non-existent - on all sets, including a 72-incher. And I run the signal straight from the DVR or STB through HDMI to the TVs. Nothing in between.

And don't get me started on the reliability factor. Felt like I was contacting D* for some problem once or twice a month - especially signal loss. Have not lost the FIOS signal once in two years - TV, internet or phone (knock wood). Not once. Not even during the freak snowstorm that sent our area to **** for two weeks in late October. There are always exceptions to the rule I guess, but I think you'll be pleased. So stop worrying.
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post #16206 of 17548
1/4/12 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougotte View Post

This conversation is very interesting and frightening.

Frightening? Because this guy is having an install issue and is obsessing on pixellation you think it's contagious and will spread up I-95 and hit us? I have thoroughly enjoyed my FiOS experience these past 5+ years (aside from the landline that I ditched a year ago ).
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post #16207 of 17548
1/4/12 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NO1B4ME View Post

I have had DirecTV for 15 years and just switched to FIOS and seen the opposite of what people are posting here. ... I ran DTV side by side with FIOS for 30 days and I was stunned with the picture quality of most HD channels compared to DTV. for ex. I recorded Toy Story 2 on Disney HD and it looks like I was watching it on my movies server as the Bluray disc itself.

Do you know what model number the set top boxes were with DirecTV?
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post #16208 of 17548
1/4/12 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Steve, I agree, PQ is #1. That's why I originally switched to FIOS. But now that their PQ may be compromised, I'm beginning to think. I can get a much cheaper deal for the first year and a somewhat cheaper deal the 2nd year.

I'm glad I didn't go for the $300 gift card on FIOS for 'loyal subscribers'...at least until I make up my mind on this. That would have locked me in for 2 years. I should actually check out Cablevision too and see what's up with their PQ.

Steve, is D*'s "on demand" free like with FIOS?

Anyone know about Cablevision PQ these days?

I had Cablevision as recently as 6 months ago. The picture quality was horrible compared to Fios in HD and even worse in SD. And if the guide and menu for Fios is ticking you off the Cablevision menu and guide will have you pulling your hair out.
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post #16209 of 17548
1/4/12 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mason View Post

While waiting several years for FIOS here (midtown Manhattan) for my mid-Jan triple-play install, also wondered about mediocre PQ comments in the NYC-FIOS local-HD thread. Ran a "PQ" search and commented recently about the results. Guess that was mostly cable systems versus FIOS, not D*, through.

Perhaps these mixed PQ comments (pixel block breakups with motion/details) involve statistical multiplexing (variable bitrates and timings between channels to maximize bandwidth use, with MPEG-4 distribution not discussed in the '04 link), either on uplinks/downlinks or cable-system/FIOS head ends. Seems like rapid motion with detailed images developing at the same time among statmuxed channels might overwhelm the hardware--even with the 'look-ahead' data-timing delays introduced years ago to help minimize this. Or, if still heavily used, maybe the head end in the sky (a '06 description) needs an upgrade.

Guess I'll have a few weeks to A-B my current TWC hookup and FIOS, which might point to a source problem instead of head ends; (if both show pixel breakups with detail/motion.) -- John

Could be...or maybe it's just a cupcake thing.

Seriously John, what are your impressions of the PQ thus far in your young FiOS subscription?
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post #16210 of 17548
1/4/12 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeny View Post

Seriously John, what are your impressions of the PQ thus far in your young FiOS subscription?

Can't say yet, installation is a few weeks off. Never have tuned in the cupcake thing on TWC. :-) BTW, just started a thread in the calibration forum suggesting AVSers email HD.Net requesting periodic delivery of the HDNet test patterns again--to help test FIOS. -- John
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post #16211 of 17548
1/4/12 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mason View Post

Can't say yet, installation is a few weeks off. Never have tuned in the cupcake thing on TWC. :-) BTW, just started a thread in the calibration forum suggesting AVSers email HD.Net requesting periodic delivery of the HDNet test patterns again--to help test FIOS. -- John

I can say personally, vs. TWC I can generally see a marked picture improvement on FIOS, but that said some programs (and I'm not talking on the Rainbow Media channels) do seem quite bit-starved for me in terms of fast motion/strobe lights (I see this mostly on music performances with rapid light intensity changes) but also occasionally see it on something I recorded from one of the premium movie channels.

What I can definitively say is that the frequency of audio/video dropouts I used to get from TWC on my HD channels (which sometimes were as often as one every few MINUTES on certain channels) have gone down to almost never on FIOS (like once a week if that) -- they're so rare that when one does happen, it's very noticeable.
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post #16212 of 17548
1/4/12 at 1:06pm
I am trying to find in the Fios DVR menu how to set the output to "Native"
Under:
Menu -> Settings -> Video Settings -> Video Format
I only see 4 choices:
480i 4:3
480p 4:3
720p 16:9
1080i 16:9

I can't find "Native" like someone posted I could try.
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post #16213 of 17548
1/4/12 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

I am trying to find in the Fios DVR menu how to set the output to "Native"
Under:
Menu -> Settings -> Video Settings -> Video Format
I only see 4 choices:
480i 4:3
480p 4:3
720p 16:9
1080i 16:9

I can't find "Native" like someone posted I could try.

The native setting is only available in the special hidden menu. If I recall you have to turn the DVR off, then on, then immediately press "OK" on the remote to get to it (though my memory is a little hazy on the sequence of key presses)
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post #16214 of 17548
1/4/12 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_bernstein View Post

I can say personally, vs. TWC I can generally see a marked picture improvement on FIOS, but that said some programs (and I'm not talking on the Rainbow Media channels) do seem quite bit-starved for me in terms of fast motion/strobe lights (I see this mostly on music performances with rapid light intensity changes) but also occasionally see it on something I recorded from one of the premium movie channels.

What I can definitively say is that the frequency of audio/video dropouts I used to get from TWC on my HD channels (which sometimes were as often as one every few MINUTES on certain channels) have gone down to almost never on FIOS (like once a week if that) -- they're so rare that when one does happen, it's very noticeable.

Agree 100% Scott. There's no comparison with TWC, and no going back.

However, having FIOS now for a few years, there has been some picture degradation. I notice it on StarzOD and on some channels.

An easy way to spot it is to pause the picture and then go into slow-motion mode by pressing the FF button. I suggest that anyone who thinks their picture is flawless to try this. This is the easiest way to see the pixilation that one might not catch at regular speed. I don't recall seeing any of this 3 years ago.

PQ is the most important thing for me, so the Direct TV talk here sounded interesting. But I would never have a system that is suspect to weather conditions and I'm not carrying two systems. I have excellent displays (Kuro 151 as one) so every anomaly is apparent. That's why I maintain my Blockbuster subscription for BD releases. There is still no comparison for pq and high fidelity with Blu-ray.
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post #16215 of 17548
1/4/12 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LL3HD View Post

An easy way to spot it is to pause the picture and then go into slow-motion mode by pressing the FF button. I suggest that anyone who thinks their picture is flawless to try this. This is the easiest way to see the pixilation that one might not catch at regular speed. I don't recall seeing any of this 3 years ago.

Exactly right. When I run Fios in Slow Motion, all I see is a screen full of colored square blocks. On D*, everything is tight with smooth gradients and no colored square blocks.
I am going to try and record some video with my camera of what I am seeing on both Fios and D* and try to post them here.

I really want to thank all the folks who have commented on my situation.
I just wish I had the same results as others have posted about the pristine PQ on Fios.
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post #16216 of 17548
1/4/12 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LL3HD View Post

Agree 100% Scott. There's no comparison with TWC, and no going back.

However, having FIOS now for a few years, there has been some picture degradation. I notice it on StarzOD and on some channels.

An easy way to spot it is to pause the picture and then go into slow-motion mode by pressing the FF button. I suggest that anyone who thinks their picture is flawless to try this. This is the easiest way to see the pixilation that one might not catch at regular speed. I don't recall seeing any of this 3 years ago.

PQ is the most important thing for me, so the Direct TV talk here sounded interesting. But I would never have a system that is suspect to weather conditions and I'm not carrying two systems. I have excellent displays (Kuro 151 as one) so every anomaly is apparent. That's why I maintain my Blockbuster subscription for BD releases. There is still no comparison for pq and high fidelity with Blu-ray.

On demand content is encoded by either TVN or indemand so u cannot judge a providers quality baed on vod content. Linear content will vary greatly between providers whereas vod content quality is very close to the same between say comcast and FiOS.
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post #16217 of 17548
1/4/12 at 3:59pm
I use 3 TiVo premiere units with FIOS and have not noticed any picture degradation. I wouldn't switch back to D* if were free. Reception is never stable here. The summer storms are too violent and always affects it. Constant service calls to tweak the dish. No Thankyou. I went through the development of their new dvrs participating it beta programs and etc. still have the monster dish on the roof.
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post #16218 of 17548
1/4/12 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LL3HD View Post

Agree 100% Scott. There's no comparison with TWC, and no going back.

However, having FIOS now for a few years, there has been some picture degradation. I notice it on StarzOD and on some channels.

An easy way to spot it is to pause the picture and then go into slow-motion mode by pressing the FF button. I suggest that anyone who thinks their picture is flawless to try this. This is the easiest way to see the pixilation that one might not catch at regular speed. I don't recall seeing any of this 3 years ago.

PQ is the most important thing for me, so the Direct TV talk here sounded interesting. But I would never have a system that is suspect to weather conditions and I'm not carrying two systems. I have excellent displays (Kuro 151 as one) so every anomaly is apparent. That's why I maintain my Blockbuster subscription for BD releases. There is still no comparison for pq and high fidelity with Blu-ray.

Well in order for there to be a comparison you would need 1080p material being broadcast. And that will never be widespread.
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post #16219 of 17548
1/4/12 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vurbano View Post

Well in order for there to be a comparison you would need 1080p material being broadcast. And that will never be widespread.

I assume you mean BD and FIOS when you say comparison. I was talking about, in my post, there is no comparison with FIOS and TWC, as Scott was saying. Even with the apparent degradation with FIOS pq, it is still much better overall than TWC
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post #16220 of 17548
1/4/12 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctveng View Post

On demand content is encoded by either TVN or indemand so u cannot judge a providers quality baed on vod content. Linear content will vary greatly between providers whereas vod content quality is very close to the same between say comcast and FiOS.

Good to know.

There are also pq anomalies with the other HD channels too, albeit unrelated.

People should do the slow-mo test I mentioned to see for themselves.
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post #16221 of 17548
1/4/12 at 5:12pm
I did. I did your "test" while watching the local affiliate's evening news broadcast as well as the NBC news broadcast, and all I saw was the anchor talking very slowly.

Also, I don't share your conviction that there is picture quality degradation. Maybe if you paid your bill on time the picture quality on your TV would improve.
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post #16222 of 17548
1/4/12 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich3fan View Post

I did. I did your "test" ... and all I saw was the anchor talking very slowly.

Also, I don't share your conviction that there is picture quality degradation. Maybe if you paid your bill on time the picture quality on your TV would improve.

Maybe I should get rid of these fly's eye glasses I wear. Yeah, that's the problem. It's not my tardy pay schedule.
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post #16223 of 17548
1/4/12 at 6:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

I have my QIP7232-2 DVR set to 1080i output 16:9.
The TV is a Sharp Elite Pro70X. The Fios DVR is connected via a HDMI 1.4 high speed cable from Mono Price.

I also have the D* box set to 1080i. I don't use native mode here because it takes too long to the D* box to change from channel to channel.


A side note:
Talking with some co-workers who have Fios.
I have heard from one co-worker that since FW 1.9 was installed, he has seen the pixelation as well on Nat Geo. Prior to 1.9, he saw no pixelation.

Could be a hint.

Good point about the lag when switching resolutions. The Vz boxes have that problem as well. As soon as we got 1.9, I enabled Native on all 3 sets. I didn't notice any PQ difference on our 32" LCDs, but I do notice a difference on the 42" plasma. My wife complained about the lag, so I disabled the Native on the small sets, but kept it on the plasma.

Doug
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post #16224 of 17548
1/4/12 at 6:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCFan View Post

Frightening? Because this guy is having an install issue and is obsessing on pixellation you think it's contagious and will spread up I-95 and hit us? I have thoroughly enjoyed my FiOS experience these past 5+ years (aside from the landline that I ditched a year ago ).

I should have specified that it's frightening because it might be a true degradation overall by Vz, or a problem w/ 1.9. Although I've always seen pixelation, smearing, blockiness, and false contours (although the latter is probably an artifact of my particular Panasonic plasma model), especially on some infamous channels like the old NBC4 (seems better lately), AMC, etc., I thought I imagined it getting worse on all channels over the past few months. Now I'm thinking I might not be imagining...

That said, the FiOS PQ is still miles better than the Comcast I've seen at my sister-in-law's house.

Doug
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post #16225 of 17548
1/4/12 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

I have my QIP7232-2 DVR set to 1080i output 16:9.
The TV is a Sharp Elite Pro70X. The Fios DVR is connected via a HDMI 1.4 high speed cable from Mono Price.

I also have the D* box set to 1080i. I don't use native mode here because it takes too long to the D* box to change from channel to channel.


A side note:
Talking with some co-workers who have Fios.
I have heard from one co-worker that since FW 1.9 was installed, he has seen the pixelation as well on Nat Geo. Prior to 1.9, he saw no pixelation.

Could be a hint.

Uh oh, maybe that is the issue. I'm still on 1.8 and don't see the pixelation. Now I'm concerned about 1.9.

BTW, for whatever reason the PQ seems much better over the last 2 days. I've also seen a ton of FIOS commercials. So it seems that just talking about it has scared Verizon enough to improve the PQ and begin an advertising campaign.
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post #16226 of 17548
1/4/12 at 7:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gluvhand View Post

I had Cablevision as recently as 6 months ago. The picture quality was horrible compared to Fios in HD and even worse in SD. And if the guide and menu for Fios is ticking you off the Cablevision menu and guide will have you pulling your hair out.

Wow, some things never change!
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post #16227 of 17548
1/4/12 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougotte View Post

Good point about the lag when switching resolutions. The Vz boxes have that problem as well. As soon as we got 1.9, I enabled Native on all 3 sets. I didn't notice any PQ difference on our 32" LCDs, but I do notice a difference on the 42" plasma. My wife complained about the lag, so I disabled the Native on the small sets, but kept it on the plasma.

Doug

Doug, the lag is not inherent in the FIOS boxes, it's the nature of having any source switch from 720p to 1080i and back again. The synching that must occur between source & display will always cause that lag. I always just went with 1080i to avoid it. Too annoying for me.
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post #16228 of 17548
1/4/12 at 7:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver View Post

I am trying to find in the Fios DVR menu how to set the output to "Native"
Under:
Menu -> Settings -> Video Settings -> Video Format
I only see 4 choices:
480i 4:3
480p 4:3
720p 16:9
1080i 16:9

I can't find "Native" like someone posted I could try.

Turn off the STB, press ok then menu.
Down arrow to HDMI/YPbPr Output and press right or ok till it changes to Native.
You can then move down and select the formats that your TV supports.
Press menu when finished.
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post #16229 of 17548
1/5/12 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Doug, the lag is not inherent in the FIOS boxes, it's the nature of having any source switch from 720p to 1080i and back again. The synching that must occur between source & display will always cause that lag. I always just went with 1080i to avoid it. Too annoying for me.

That's what I guessed, but thanks for the confirmation, Ken. My Panasonic plasma (an older 768p set) seems to do better w/ native rez, or maybe I'm just imagining it looks better. If I default the box to 1080i (for example), then the TV has to do a second conversion if the source is 720p (or vice versa if the source is 1080i and I default to 720p). So, I'll leave the Native enabled on that set until my wife starts complaining again.

Doug
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post #16230 of 17548
1/5/12 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by VARTV View Post

Do you know what model number the set top boxes were with DirecTV?

I had the HR22 ad then switched to the newer multiroom one in my main tv.
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