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Verizon FiOS HDTV - Page 11

post #301 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzbutler View Post

I am also interested in any Flower Mound specific info.

I just had FIOS TV installed in Flower Mound... I have had their internet service for a few months, and got a Fedex letter from them right after Jan 1 announcing availability of the TV service. I ordered it and they did the install Friday. Here's some excerpts from a note I wrote to a friend about the experience:

Indeed, it did get installed, although it took them probably four+ hours to do it. Most of that time was dealing with the rats nest of cables in my wiring closet; in the end, they had to disconnect all my additional amplifiers and modulators to get things working. One of the things they said they had to do was hook their special "FIOS firmware" D-Link router back up; I had unhooked it to use my own. The guy claimed the TV requires the special router (I had also read this online). However, he hooked it up downstream from my wireless router, and after changing a couple settings it all works fine, and I use both routers.

The way it connects to everything is IDENTICAL to cable. Basically, at the box on the outside of your house where the fiber arrives, a coax comes out. In my case, they just unconnected the incoming Comcast coax and connected their FIOS coax coming out of their box. Inside the house, basically all their set-yop boxes connect to the various coaxes just as if you had cable. The only weird thing in all this is they add one additional box inside the house (called a "NIM"). It has a coax jack and an ethernet jack. The coax jack must be connected into your cable somehow (via a splitter) and the ethernet jack must be connected to their special D-Link router. This is how the cable boxes talk to the central office for VOD ordering, guide downloads, etc.

One interesting surprise: The cable signal they generate supports analog channels! That is, you can connect cable-ready TV's in your house to the cable w/o set-top boxes and get some channels, just with FIOS. The bad news is, they only give you local channels (including independents). You can see the lineup at http://www22.verizon.com/FiosForHome...exasLineup.pdf ... the channels that can be received w/o a box are the "Basic" channels in the upper left corner. This is better than satellite (which has no analog channels), but worse than cable (which has a bunch, although they're whittling the list down all the time).

As for the service itself: I give it high marks. The quality is MUCH better than satellite (which has obvious compression artifacting), and I think at least as good or better than cable as well (although this is harder to tell w/o a side by side comparison). The channel lineup is comparable to what I get with Comcast today, with maybe a few additions such as Boomerang. The VOD selection seems similar to Comcast, or maybe not quite as much. One thing missing from the Verizon VOD list is Nickelodeon and Cartoon Networks shows. For kids, they just have Disney, and some various educational shows.

The set top box user interface is good. Its definately better than the box I have with Comcast. Changing channels is very quick, for example, and the menuing works well. Yes, the guide stays on your channel when you bring it up!! Plus, you can list all shows on a particular channel, similar to the old StarSight guide (although done a little differently).

The DVR works well also. The two tuners are great! Plus, it has better features than ReplayTV at dealing with conflicts. For example, it has a "priority list" like I use in Beyond TV that lets you specify which shows take priority in case of a conflict. It certainly is more responsive than Replay (ours has slowed to a crawl).

One major lack is there is no commercial skip ability. There are multiple speeds of FF and REV, and there is a "jump back 7 seconds" button. But no jump forwards button. This is hard to get used to after using Replay. It's made worse by the fact that while FF or REV'ing, the box seems less responsive to remote button pushes. This means it's very easy to overshoot your target... maybe they did this on purpose.

The experience was good enough I decided to look at the money picture and see if it would be worth it to switch. Here is what I'm paying Comcast:

Code:
Digital Classic Plus Package  $14.95  
Standard Cable                $42.50  
Classic Extra                 $  5.99  
HDTV Box (media room)         $  5.00  
Digital Additional Equipment  $  5.08  
Total  $73.52
I suspect they have better deals these days (for example, I'm paying a $5 fee for each of my 2 digital boxes... maybe I'm supposed to get one for free?? Plus, I have no idea what that "Classic Extra" charge is). But, this is what is on my bill. I then figured my price for FIOS TV with enough boxes to cover all my major viewing areas (including a DVR for the media room and for the family room), and the price comes to this:

Code:
Expanded Basic Package  $34.95  
Standard Set Top Box (3)  $11.85  
DVR Set Top Box (2)  $25.90  
Total  $72.70
It may even be less... I can't remember if you're supposed to get one box for free included in the $34.95 base price. Both of these are really expensive of course, but even with a bunch of STB's FIOS is very competitively priced. With the 2 DVR's and the ability to do VOD in any room, I'm getting much more than Comcast, plus better quality, for about the same price. I am thinking it may be time to change!!

One more interesting thing: the set top boxes that Verizon uses are the latest generation Motorola boxes that feature a networking technology called "MOCA". This is what allows them to communicate over the internet, for example, for guide updates. It also is supposed to allow in-home media networking over coax, similar to what the later generation ReplayTV's can do over ethernet. That is, from another STB you can watch a show recorded on a DVR in another part of your house, no additional wiring needed. This would be awesome, because then all those $3.95 low end STB's could watch content recorded on the DVR in your home. This feature does NOT work now, but I saw a post that claimed Verizon would be enabling it in 2Q2006... we'll see.
post #302 of 17548
Dan,
Thanks for the detailed FIOS installation outline. Looked at your pdf channel menu but couldn't find what channels are HDTV. Looks like they haven't signed HDNet, either. I signed up for Verizon FIOS last year but suspect Manhattan hookups will be slow arriving. Still interested in discovering what bit rates for SD/HD Version is providing, and if HDNet is ever delivered (with its test patterns ), whether the STBs provides more than the ~1300 line maximum horizontal resolution (resolvable) that appears to be typical for many cable STBs (from posts here). -- John
post #303 of 17548
Dan,

Don't forget the $10-12 a month it costs to power the ONT.
post #304 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mason View Post

Dan,
Looked at your pdf channel menu but couldn't find what channels are HDTV. Looks like they haven't signed HDNet, either.

HDTV lineup is on the 2nd page of the PDF. HDNet is part of the lineup.
post #305 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfoster View Post

Don't forget the $10-12 a month it costs to power the ONT.

That's a good point. I figure there will be other "hidden" costs and fees as well that I won't be aware of until I get a bill. In the case of the ONT cost, I assume I am already paying that for FIOS internet??
post #306 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by danjb View Post

As for the service itself: I give it high marks. The quality is MUCH better than satellite (which has obvious compression artifacting), and I think at least as good or better than cable as well (although this is harder to tell w/o a side by side comparison). The channel lineup is comparable to what I get with Comcast today, with maybe a few additions such as Boomerang.

Dan, great review! The more I hear, the more I'm convinced this is my ticket out of Directv and the other sat down-rezr's!!!! HOORAY!!!!

I also counted about 14 HD National (exclusive of broadcast HD)....that's about 2 YEARS ahead of D*!

Dan, if I could, can you give us details on your HDTV?

Thanks.
post #307 of 17548
I have ordered Fios, both Internet service and TV. Currently have D*. I have been in the professional and HT business for about 14 years. I worked at Zenith Electronics during the years when the "Grand Alliance" was trying to get everything passed through the FCC. Seeing the 30 - 35 Mbps bandwidth of the servers we were using and the W-VHS machines we used with content from HD Vision, I have grown weary of the HD-Lite from D*. Man, I doubt HD will ever be as good again as it was in the early days. It was like entering another dimension, as if you were looking through a pristine, clear window into another world and all you had to do was simply step through the window to be there. The stuff being broadcast today, CSI, etc. is total garbage compared to howgood it actually could be. Sigh. Oh, well.

Anyway.. none of the above is why I'm writing. A couple of days AFTER I placed my order with Verizon, I came home and Comcast had been to my home and had striped and flagged my yard for the cable running to my home. I guess that V* and C* communicate in some way when this is going to take place. Well, two days later, I get a call at dinner time and it's a rep from Comcast, wanting to talk to me about keeping me as a customer. He's offered to lower my Internet service from it's current $52.95 a month to $29.95 a month, plus offer me a deal on Comcast cable. I was right in the middle of dinner, so told him to call back another time. He's called, but missed me, twice now. I was wondering if anyone else has had the same experience and what Comcast has been offering? With Fios coming it, it's amazing how competition is spurring better pricing.

Also, in the event the Comcast rep came up with some smokin' deal, for me, it's all about HD. When I moved in my home in 2001, I immediately put in an antenna on the roof of my house for HD OTA. Of course, the HOA blew a gasket, but I just forwarded them the FCC link to the Telecommunications Act of 1997 and let them know that I knew the name of a good attorney who could explain to them how their covenants were not in compliance with federal law. That was the last I heard from them (at least on that issue..LOL) So, I have the locals ALL coming in with no problems, but really want the variety, so I want to know what are the HD channels that Comcast offers and is the bandwidth and quality any good?
post #308 of 17548
Well, I went to the Comcast site and it looks like the "deal" is $29.95 a month for 12 months and also includes HBO and Starz, as well as the HD channels. I'd have to get HD receivers, but it doesn't look like they offer HD-DVR

Anybody know what Comcast's plans are for HD-DVR? By the time I add a couple of HD receivers and a single SD DVR, the monthly would be $49.95 a month while Fios would be $76.75 (1-HD-DVR, 1-HD, 1-SD) with the Sports/Movie package (includes 47 movie channels of Starz, Showtime, TMC, Encore, Flix and Sundance, three of which are HD at this time). Is another $26, plus as some have mentioned, the additional cost of electricity to power the ONT, worth it for HD-DVR?
post #309 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfoster View Post

Dan,

Don't forget the $10-12 a month it costs to power the ONT.

Sources please.
post #310 of 17548
Nice to see some fellow Flower Mounders respond, and that for you at least Verizon has claimed availability. Here are a couple of quick questions for you and then for anyone else with direct FiOS experience:

1. What part of FM do you live in? In am in Bridlewood. I can use this information to perhaps push past a CS rep who is just reading the screen and not willing to dig any further. I also received the express mail letter telling me all was ready.

(BTW, your story about the HOA is entertaining. Perhaps they don't watch those things anymore? My D* dish and HD antennae look like I have the Starship Enterprise on my roof :-))

2. For those of you who already have FiOS TV, what is the format of the VOD material, especially the movies? In particular,

2a. Any VOD content in HD?
2b. Is movie VOD content in widescreen/OAR or mostly/all in 4:3? I am expecting something akin to what you get on D* PPV, where most if 4:3 but perhaps a couple of offerings are at least in letterbox.

I am definitely planning on this move if they can get their act together and make it available to me. They may be racing the clock otherwise against D*'s rollout of HD DVRs for MPEG-4.
post #311 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTDT View Post

I am definitely planning on this move if they can get their act together and make it available to me. They may be racing the clock otherwise against D*'s rollout of HD DVRs for MPEG-4.

For me, the only 'racing clock' is that of PQ. D* will not improve PQ for at least 2 years, if EVER. So if FIOS is at least starting out with full bandwidth HD, they've got my $$$!

You know what the best part of this is? I won't have to listen anymore about D*'s grand 'business plan'!
post #312 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonCoolio View Post

Sources please.


I'll have to dig around for the current specs, but I read it here or at dslreports.

Remember the ONT of FIOS is the same as a optical node in a cable system. The FIOS optical system is passive. It is definetly powered by the user, as well as the battery charger for back-up ( which is only for telephone) plus the user is responsible for the back-up batteries after install.

Oh, by the way, the claim I've read is 2 amps of draw. That equals 220 watts, 5280 watts a day, 158,400 a month or 158 kwh at 7.5 cents national average equals $11.88.
post #313 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTDT View Post

What part of FM do you live in?

I am in Wellington, about 200 yards west of the high school as the crow flies...
Quote:


Dan, if I could, can you give us details on your HDTV?

I apologize for making my post and not being able to immediately follow it up with detailed info, but I'm currently away from home for a week on business. I only got to play with the setup for some time on Saturday. I watch HD on a JVC G1000 equivalent FP setup, but have only tried OTA and Comcast HD (when I had satellite in the past, it was only for SD). The FIOS TV box was set to put out 1080i.

I watched some of Winged Migration, some of Apocalypse Now, and a short segment of a football game in HD. Winged Migration was actually via a DVR recording. They all to me appeared as clean as OTA HD. I have noticed blotchiness (sp?) in grass in even SD football broadcasts on satellite, but the FIOS HD looked very clean. No pixelization in the ocean shots and bird flock shots of Winged Migration, and scenes like that with a lot of across-the-screen motion is where I have noticed digital compression artifacting the most in the past. It is hard to say definitively w/o an A/B comparison or w/o checking the data rate of course, but it looked as good as what I got from Comcast or OTA.

I had two installers at the house; the first guy said it was his first time doing a solo install. He said he was from Florida, and that Verizon had brought in a bunch of their Florida team to do Texas installs. He claimed they are targeting 18,000+ by the end of February? Anyway, after he looked at my wiring closet and struggled with the existing setup a bit, he called one of his buddies to help him, and the second guy was very knowledgeable. He wired in the Verizon D-Link router (which I had setting on a shelf) and downstreamed my D-Link MIMO wireless router w/o a hitch.

One other thing I noticed is I couldn't find any HD VOD programming... Comcast has a separate section for this in their VOD guide, but Verizon did not. There may have been HD programming sprinkled in with SD programming, but I did not specifically notice it (I could have just missed it). I assume Verizon will be expanding their VOD lineup (as Comcast has over the last year), so this doesn't worry me a whole lot.
post #314 of 17548
Thanks Dan. Let us know what you think as you get more hours behind you! Enjoy.
post #315 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfoster View Post

I'll have to dig around for the current specs, but I read it here or at dslreports.

Remember the ONT of FIOS is the same as a optical node in a cable system. The FIOS optical system is passive. It is definetly powered by the user, as well as the battery charger for back-up ( which is only for telephone) plus the user is responsible for the back-up batteries after install.

Oh, by the way, the claim I've read is 2 amps of draw. That equals 220 watts, 5280 watts a day, 158,400 a month or 158 kwh at 7.5 cents national average equals $11.88.

This guy used a Kill-a-watt power meter on the power supply and got a reading of 12 watts.
http://www.broadbandreports.com/foru...fios+equipment
I saw the thread where 2 amps were stated, but that may be someone reading the ratings sticker on the power supply. I don't know if he had tv services or if that will make a difference. So, 12w x 24hours x 30 days / 1000 kwh x 7.5c = $.65

I really want to know how much hidden cost is involved with Fios too. Perhaps someone has more input on this.
post #316 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonCoolio View Post

This guy used a Kill-a-watt power meter on the power supply and got a reading of 12 watts.
http://www.broadbandreports.com/foru...fios+equipment
I saw the thread where 2 amps were stated, but that may be someone reading the ratings sticker on the power supply. I don't know if he had tv services or if that will make a difference. So, 12w x 24hours x 30 days / 1000 kwh x 7.5c = $.65

I really want to know how much hidden cost is involved with Fios too. Perhaps someone has more input on this.


Well first of all you can't kill a watt. It's kilowatt as in 1000 watts. Any kilowatt meter is a counter, like the one on the outside of your house. You don't get an absolute reading as in 11 watts. You do realize what 11 watts is right? One and half christmas light bulbs. 11 watts at 110 volts is 100 mA, not enough to charge your cell phone battery....
post #317 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfoster View Post

Well first of all you can't kill a watt. It's kilowatt as in 1000 watts. Any kilowatt meter is a counter, like the one on the outside of your house. You don't get an absolute reading as in 11 watts. You do realize what 11 watts is right? One and half christmas light bulbs. 11 watts at 110 volts is 100 mA, not enough to charge your cell phone battery....

NO KIDDING!

KILL-A-Watt is a brand of meter. It installs between the power source and appliances to measure energy usage.
http://www.p3international.com/produ.../P4400-CE.html <-look here

Don't be condescending... lets get a more precise estimate of the Fios ONT.
post #318 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonCoolio View Post

NO KIDDING!

KILL-A-Watt is a brand of meter. It installs between the power source and appliances to measure energy usage.
http://www.p3international.com/produ.../P4400-CE.html <-look here

Don't be condescending... lets get a more precise estimate of the Fios ONT.

OK I'll bite, do you really think the ONT only draws 100 mA? It takes a lot more than that to make your phone ring, plus the data and video portions of the ONT, oh and let's not forget this system is two-way so now we have a laser to contend with...... Then we have to charge the back-up battery....

As said earlier I haven't measured the current consumption, but it ain't free and it is certainly more than 11 watts.
post #319 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfoster View Post

OK I'll bite, do you really think the ONT only draws 100 mA? It takes a lot more than that to make your phone ring, plus the data and video portions of the ONT, oh and let's not forget this system is two-way so now we have a laser to contend with...... Then we have to charge the back-up battery....

As said earlier I haven't measured the current consumption, but it ain't free and it is certainly more than 11 watts.

I doubt it's a laser. They've been using LEDs in place of lasers for years.
post #320 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmbatch View Post

I doubt it's a laser. They've been using LEDs in place of lasers for years.


Huh? All current lasers in this industry are diodes...........
post #321 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTDT View Post

Nice to see some fellow Flower Mounders respond, and that for you at least Verizon has claimed availability. Here are a couple of quick questions for you and then for anyone else with direct FiOS experience:

1. What part of FM do you live in? In am in Bridlewood. I can use this information to perhaps push past a CS rep who is just reading the screen and not willing to dig any further. I also received the express mail letter telling me all was ready.

(BTW, your story about the HOA is entertaining. Perhaps they don't watch those things anymore? My D* dish and HD antennae look like I have the Starship Enterprise on my roof :-))

2. For those of you who already have FiOS TV, what is the format of the VOD material, especially the movies? In particular,

2a. Any VOD content in HD?
2b. Is movie VOD content in widescreen/OAR or mostly/all in 4:3? I am expecting something akin to what you get on D* PPV, where most if 4:3 but perhaps a couple of offerings are at least in letterbox.

I am definitely planning on this move if they can get their act together and make it available to me. They may be racing the clock otherwise against D*'s rollout of HD DVRs for MPEG-4.

I'm close to the Home Depot down Hwy 2499. My next door neighbor added Fios about amonth ago, then when the announcement came out for Fios TV, he was contacted by Fios. He knew I was waiting for that, so he called me. At first, when I called the rep said I wasn't able to get it, but when I said my next door neighbor had it and that the in-ground box stradled our two properties, she put me on hold. After a few minutes she came back on the line and confirmed that I could get it. She said there is a master list of addresses that has yet to be uploaded into the verification site, but that all those addresses CAN receive it.

Anyway, I've yet to hear from anybody that is currently getting Comcast to hear about quality and service, HD-DVR plans, etc. The deal Comcast is offering, $29.95 Broadband with 6Mbps and $29.95 digital cable with HBO and Starz is about one-half of current Comcast broadband and D*. Is Verizon going to be a hassle compared to Comcast? I'd really appreciate feedback.
post #322 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfoster View Post

OK I'll bite, do you really think the ONT only draws 100 mA? It takes a lot more than that to make your phone ring, plus the data and video portions of the ONT, oh and let's not forget this system is two-way so now we have a laser to contend with...... Then we have to charge the back-up battery....

As said earlier I haven't measured the current consumption, but it ain't free and it is certainly more than 11 watts.

here you go
http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,15253339
post #323 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonCoolio View Post

here you go
http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,15253339

They say nothing concrete.... Get your own data. I'll concur my 2 amps was MAX, but to compare that to 100 mA, your dreaming....

ONT
NIM
Required wired d-Link router
BBU

All things the user must power with Verizon but not CATV/DBS........
post #324 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfoster View Post

They say nothing concrete.... Get your own data. I'll concur my 2 amps was MAX, but to compare that to 100 mA, your dreaming....

ONT
NIM
Required wired d-Link router
BBU

All things the user must power with Verizon but not CATV/DBS........

Your the one telling people Fios will cost them $12 a month in power.... your dreaming.
perhaps you can tell people how much the above devices will cost in total.

Your data was based on a post at AVS Forums......Maybe you should get your own data.
post #325 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonCoolio View Post

Your the one telling people Fios will cost them $12 a month in power.... your dreaming.
perhaps you can tell people how much the above devices will cost in total.

Your data was based on a post at AVS Forums......Maybe you should get your own data.


And what is your cost estimate ? 24 watts $0.65? As I said your dreaming. What site would you like me to link to? You started a thread among Verizon users, none of which were able to offer concrete usage info....

When I get the time I will get the power requirements for the:

ONT
BBU
NIM
D-Link Router

When done I believe we will be a lot closer to $12 than we will be to $0.65.
post #326 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfoster View Post

And what is your cost estimate ? 24 watts $0.65? As I said your dreaming. What site would you like me to link to? You started a thread among Verizon users, none of which were able to offer concrete usage info....

When I get the time I will get the power requirements for the:

ONT
BBU
NIM
D-Link Router

When done I believe we will be a lot closer to $12 than we will be to $0.65.

And as I said in previous posts, I'm not sure how much fios tv would change this cost estimate.
What thread among Verizon users did I start? Someone else started it after reading your posts.
What site do I want you to link to? Maybe one that suports your argument. But be sure not to use Broadbandreports because after using it to support your original argument, it is no longer a credible source of information acording to you.
post #327 of 17548
Looks like Verizon is getting MHD at launch:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=630226&page=2
post #328 of 17548
Just to keep you guys posted on what's going on in Massapequa. I placed my order with Verizon this afternoon, they will be here thursday morning. I have Directv now and i'm going to hold on to it so I can compare the too. I'd also like to add that I was paying around $120.00 a month for Directv. that included one Hidef box, three standard boxes, and all the channels. the lady on the phone said that I would be getting one hddvr box, three standard, and all they have to offer for $88.00 a month. More hd, better picture( I hope) , and thirty dollars a month less, it's a no brainier.
post #329 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfoster View Post

When I get the time I will get the power requirements for the:

ONT
BBU
NIM
D-Link Router

I measured the ONT/BBU previously (posted at BBR) and my results were:

Quote:


Someone else had posted that the power supply draws 11 watts, since I'm home and thinking about it I tried it myself (I have a kill-a-watt power meter), I got the same measurement: 11 watts, 17 VA.

If I take the phone off-hook it goes up to 12 watts, 18 VA

I don't have a NIM so I can't comment on that.
post #330 of 17548
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy def View Post

Just to keep you guys posted on what's going on in Massapequa. I placed my order with Verizon this afternoon, they will be here thursday morning. I have Directv now and i'm going to hold on to it so I can compare the too. I'd also like to add that I was paying around $120.00 a month for Directv. that included one Hidef box, three standard boxes, and all the channels. the lady on the phone said that I would be getting one hddvr box, three standard, and all they have to offer for $88.00 a month. More hd, better picture( I hope) , and thirty dollars a month less, it's a no brainier.


No brainer is right Tommy! Let us know how your A/B with D* goes, we'd all be interested in this.
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