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Verizon FiOS HDTV - Page 161

post #4801 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by afiggatt View Post

Yes, Verizon rolled out the IMG in either all or some of Florida last night. What I find astounding is that the reports on the IMG they got has the same release and build numbers as the buggy IMG they rolled out in August. For the QIP6416, it is still Release 1.0.3, Build 03.40. Not even a new build to fix the worse bugs!!!!

I have this build on a 6416 P2. Dare I ask what the bugs are? Compared to the Comcast one it's the pinnacle of technology!

Then again, the bar may be lowered for me - I've never owned a Tivo box...
post #4802 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin_R6 View Post

They are trying to add CSNMA-HD, and have been for months. There is no satellite feed of the channel so VZ has to acquire it via fiber direct connect. Once the hardware is in place there are technical hurdles involved with the this RSN that isnt an issue with other RSNs. The coverage area of CSNMA is huge, and requires special blackout restrictions, which has been problematic. Its also the reason that Texas users don't get the Dallas Mavericks games on HDNet.

see the posts by "FRMRVZMAN" here.

At the risk of sounding like a whino, but how is that supposed to make us feel better, or help us cut verizon some slack. The thing is, Cox doesn't carry CSN HD in my area or I would be gone (mind you they have less HD channels and worse quality than FiOS) and I would never ever again get D* or E*. For me it is not about quantity, that is why I just don't understand the recent whining about the new HD channels.

SureWest has more of the channels members here want and are adding more later this year. It's, just like FiOS, a FTTH and doing it the right way, I think.
post #4803 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVJunkyMonkey View Post

At the risk of sounding like a whino, but how is that supposed to make us feel better, or help us cut verizon some slack. The thing is, Cox doesn't carry CSN HD in my area or I would be gone (mind you they have less HD channels and worse quality than FiOS) and I would never ever again get D* or E*. For me it is not about quantity, that is why I just don't understand the recent whining about the new HD channels.

SureWest has more of the channels members here want and are adding more later this year. It's, just like FiOS, a FTTH and doing it the right way, I think.

Its not intended to make anyone feel better, Its just the reality of whats going on.

I am really annoyed at the situation personally, the only thing i would watch in HD on CSNMA is DC United, and its clear that I wont be seeing any of that in HD this year.
post #4804 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin_R6 View Post

Its not intended to make anyone feel better, Its just the reality of whats going on.

I am really annoyed at the situation personally, the only thing i would watch in HD on CSNMA is DC United, and its clear that I wont be seeing any of that in HD this year.

I have CSNMA-HD through Comcast in Richmond. I think there were only a couple (2) of programs/games that were in HD over the summer. Some of the Redskins games would have been in HD, but they were blacked out by a local channel-that didn't carry it in HD...

October is almost over, but this is what was in HD.
http://midatlantic.comcastsportsnet.com/hd_schedule.asp
post #4805 of 17987
there will be over 30 caps games and over 30 wizards games in HD I think this year.
post #4806 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by YesJim View Post

I have this build on a 6416 P2. Dare I ask what the bugs are? Compared to the Comcast one it's the pinnacle of technology!

Then again, the bar may be lowered for me - I've never owned a Tivo box...

Once you have tried TiVo, you will never want to change back to anything else.
post #4807 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by HILLTOP SAILOR View Post

Once you have tried TiVo, you will never want to change back to anything else.

we had a TiVO @ the Fios kiosk and i didn't like it i prefer my D* branded DVR's over the old D* TiVO... but maybe cause it was an old receiver lol.. the only thing i like about that TiVO was the DLB(dual live buffer) but other than that i didn't really like it. no caller id no support for D* interactive no DoD, meadiashare... the list goes on lol

but i'm sure the NEW HD (cable based) TiVO's support HILLTOP SAILOR's point of view lol
post #4808 of 17987
I recorded the HDNet test pattern last Saturday on the FIOS Motorola DVR. This is connected via HDMI to my Pioneer Pro 150 which is a very highly regarded, 60" full 1080p display.

The problem is I'm only seeing a horizontal resolution of about 1100-1200 via the HDNet pattern. If FIOS is truly passing all the signal, how is this possible. If the limitation is in the FIOS DVR, that kind of makes the fact that FIOS is passing HD untouched, kind of 'moot'.

Anyone have any ideas?
post #4809 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I recorded the HDNet test pattern last Saturday on the FIOS Motorola DVR. This is connected via HDMI to my Pioneer Pro 150 which is a very highly regarded, 60" full 1080p display.

The problem is I'm only seeing a horizontal resolution of about 1100-1200 via the HDNet pattern. If FIOS is truly passing all the signal, how is this possible. If the limitation is in the FIOS DVR, that kind of makes the fact that FIOS is passing HD untouched, kind of 'moot'.

Anyone have any ideas?

Just raised a similar point, in the programming forum , contrasting HD Lite with Geekgirl's FIOS reading (~1300 lines) and a report of the full 1920X1080 lines from an Orlando member. Raised my usual points about potential STB limitations and head-end processing in follow-on posts in the calibration-forum thread I linked. -- John
post #4810 of 17987
Ken,
Not sure how the DVR could be messing it up, but I have that test pattern saved on my Series3 TiVo. I'll check it on my 6010FD and let you know what I see.

I have read that the HD.net test pattern has some issues, the only one I remember is with the overscan numbers. I'm not sure if any of the other tests have issues as well.
post #4811 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdraw View Post

Ken,
I have read that the HD.net test pattern has some issues, the only one I remember is with the overscan numbers. I'm not sure if any of the other tests have issues as well.

As linked in the post just above, someone in Orlando just reported measuring a full-rez 1920X1080, or close to it (10--11 wedge reading), with his SA8300HD and Panasonic 1080p plasma. Tends to confirm HDNet is uplinking true 1080i, resolution-wise. I've seen the report of inaccurate scan markings, too, although don't think I'd rely entirely on HDNet's patterns for a significant adjustment like scan width anyway. IMO, the more data the better. Might indicate smaller head ends are piping out full test pattern rez, but in the past most report ~1300 lines maximum resolvable (not format). -- John

EDIT: A post by DoubleDAZ in an Arizona forurm, which can be Googled, last year (Dec. 11) outlines potential resolution-limiting problems with the 8300HD, perhaps applicable to Motorola STBs, too. (I'd post a link but AVS substitutes *** for the link name--or even the name outside the link!) This STB tech material mentions STB memory limitations and reads like what AVSer vegggas wrote earlier here and I summarized in another post today. BTW, regarding a comment in that linked post, I haven't noticed effective horiz. rez differences between live and DVRed HDNet patterns (limited to YPbPr 1290 lines here); interlaced 1080i horiz. rez shouldn't drop with progressive display; and pausing the DVRed HDNet playback on my CRT RPTV, as expected, about halves my vertical rez because only one TV field or half-frame plays in PAUSE. And HDMI vs. YPbPr shouldn't make a huge difference in horiz. rez--unless something in really wrong with a display's or STB's analog processing. Suspect <50 lines variation might be typical, based on an earlier Sony Ruby comparison posted here. -- John
post #4812 of 17987
Was I the only one who noticed that Game 1 of the World Series was not listed at ALL in the Verizon guide? How can they be this incompetent? First it's not showing new primetime programming as actually being "new" (some still say repeats even when they aren't, which screws up season recordings), now they don't even show Game 1 listed on Fox at all?
post #4813 of 17987
I can tell you the exact bit rate if that's what you want to know.

I just got TiVoToGo working and none of the HD stuff seems to be copy protected so i can check all the bit rates and resolutions. I've already extracted the test patterns so I'll report back when I get home.
post #4814 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho View Post

Was I the only one who noticed that Game 1 of the World Series was not listed at ALL in the Verizon guide? How can they be this incompetent? First it's not showing new primetime programming as actually being "new" (some still say repeats even when they aren't, which screws up season recordings), now they don't even show Game 1 listed on Fox at all?

It was in the guide here, but the teams were TBA.
post #4815 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by kes601 View Post

It was in the guide here, but the teams were TBA.

The problem is the subcontractor providing the info.
post #4816 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mason View Post

Just raised a similar point, in the programming forum , contrasting HD Lite with Geekgirl's FIOS reading (~1300 lines) and a report of the full 1920X1080 lines from an Orlando member. Raised my usual points about potential STB limitations and head-end processing in follow-on posts in the calibration-forum thread I linked. -- John

For completeness, don't forget about the display itself. My SamSung DLP is actually a native 960 x 1080 pixel design. SamSung uses a "wobulation" technique to give an apparent 1920 x 1080 resolution.

Lots of additional info in the "How to use HDNet Calibration" thread in the Display Calibration forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=800757&page=3 (BTW: thanks for answering my questions ).
post #4817 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mason View Post

Just raised a similar point, in the programming forum , contrasting HD Lite with Geekgirl's FIOS reading (~1300 lines) and a report of the full 1920X1080 lines from an Orlando member. Raised my usual points about potential STB limitations and head-end processing in follow-on posts in the calibration-forum thread I linked. -- John

My confusion is trying to accurately determine where the lines merge to gray. Since this is a gradual process as you move down the wedge, there's quite a bit of subjectivity.

There's also a separate smaller wedge to the right that I believe goes from 7-9. That wedge seems more crisply defined than the other wedge.
post #4818 of 17987
A search of HD.Net's site shows they've slated their 10-min test patterns for three Saturdays, 6:30 am ET, starting today (10/27).

The last 4 mins provide resolution wedges to approximate effective horizontal and vertical resolution, assuming your HDNet source hasn't reformatted the 1920X1080i signal to a different format resolution. Using the converging-line wedges in the central circle, the vertical wedges measure effective horizontal resolution and the horizontal wedges vertical resolution. Yup, sounds confusing until you examine the patterns.

The numbering beside the wedges indicates resolution per picture height. For horiz. rez., estimate the grayout point where the B&W lines can no longer be resolved. If it's ~7.3, for example, on the 6--8 wedge segment (upper right in the central circle), multiply 7.3 by 100, then by 16/9 to convert lines per picture height to lines per 16X9 HD picture width. So, 7.3 X 100 X 1.78 = ~1300 lines maximum effective horizontal resolution.

This Orlando member recently confirmed measuring ~10.5 using the higher-numbered, finer-resolution central wedges. That's ~10.5 X 100 X 1.78 = ~1869 horiz. rez. Member dsigner also measured ~10.5 X 100 = 1050 lines for vertical resolution with a 1080p plasma display.

Fixed-pixel displays such as 1366X768 models, or 960X1080 wobulated DLPs not confirmed being able to resolve 1920X1080, seem adequate to measure horiz. rez. from head ends and STBs assumed to be delivering ~1300 lines maximum horiz. rez. But known full-resolution displays, such as dsigner's 1080p plasma, are needed to confirm the highest resolutions. This discussion of dsinger's measurements briefly mentions differences between test pattern and motion-video programming resolutions. -- John
post #4819 of 17987
My DVR has NO data for Sun-Thurs, and it's not saying "Please Wait..." as if it is loading, it says "No Program Description" on every channel for 120 hours straight. I've tried rebooting the DVR 2x and I get the same results.

Any suggestions? I've opened up a trouble ticket w/Vz, but it's the weekend so I know it won't get fixed any time soon.
post #4820 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mason View Post

A search of HD.Net's site shows they've slated their 10-min test patterns for three Saturdays, 6:30 am ET, starting today (10/27).

The last 4 mins provide resolution wedges to approximate effective horizontal and vertical resolution, assuming your HDNet source hasn't reformatted the 1920X1080i signal to a different format resolution. Using the converging-line wedges in the central circle, the vertical wedges measure effective horizontal resolution and the horizontal wedges vertical resolution. Yup, sounds confusing until you examine the patterns.

The numbering beside the wedges indicates resolution per picture height. For horiz. rez., estimate the grayout point where the B&W lines can no longer be resolved. If it's ~7.3, for example, on the 6--8 wedge segment (upper right in the central circle), multiply 7.3 by 100, then by 16/9 to convert lines per picture height to lines per 16X9 HD picture width. So, 7.3 X 100 X 1.78 = ~1300 lines maximum effective horizontal resolution.

This Orlando member recently confirmed measuring ~10.5 using the higher-numbered, finer-resolution central wedges. That's ~10.5 X 100 X 1.78 = ~1869 horiz. rez. Member dsigner also measured ~10.5 X 100 = 1050 lines for vertical resolution with a 1080p plasma display.

Fixed-pixel displays such as 1366X768 models, or 960X1080 wobulated DLPs not confirmed being able to resolve 1920X1080, seem adequate to measure horiz. rez. from head ends and STBs assumed to be delivering ~1300 lines maximum horiz. rez. But known full-resolution displays, such as dsigner's 1080p plasma, are needed to confirm the highest resolutions. This discussion of dsinger's measurements briefly mentions differences between test pattern and motion-video programming resolutions. -- John



My wobulated DLPs have never had a problem showing the resolution. My old HLR SAmsung can only show around 1800 lines of resolution, but it was a fist generation 1080P wobulated set. My newer Toshiba 1080P DLP has no problem showing all lines in the resolution wedge. You have to make sure the set is capable of 1:1 pixel mapping to have a chance to show the full resolution. With the Toshiba it has to be in NAtural picture mode to have 1:1 pixel mapping. Any other mode won't be 1:1 and won't show the full resolution in that test pattern. My old 1080P Samsung, to get 1:1 pixel mapping, you have to enter the service mode everytime you turn it on to get 1:1 pixel mapping.
Also if your set doesn't properly deinterlace 1080i to 1080P, it also won't show the full resolution either
So a wobulated set is easily capable of showing the full 1920x1080 resolution. Like any other 1080P set it needs to be able to deinterlace 1080i properly and show 1:1 pixel mapping to be able to show the full 1920x1080 resolution pattern.
post #4821 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mason View Post

A search of HD.Net's site shows they've slated their 10-min test patterns for three Saturdays, 6:30 am ET, starting today (10/27).

The last 4 mins provide resolution wedges to approximate effective horizontal and vertical resolution, assuming your HDNet source hasn't reformatted the 1920X1080i signal to a different format resolution. Using the converging-line wedges in the central circle, the vertical wedges measure effective horizontal resolution and the horizontal wedges vertical resolution. Yup, sounds confusing until you examine the patterns.

The numbering beside the wedges indicates resolution per picture height. For horiz. rez., estimate the grayout point where the B&W lines can no longer be resolved. If it's ~7.3, for example, on the 6--8 wedge segment (upper right in the central circle), multiply 7.3 by 100, then by 16/9 to convert lines per picture height to lines per 16X9 HD picture width. So, 7.3 X 100 X 1.78 = ~1300 lines maximum effective horizontal resolution.

This Orlando member recently confirmed measuring ~10.5 using the higher-numbered, finer-resolution central wedges. That's ~10.5 X 100 X 1.78 = ~1869 horiz. rez. Member dsigner also measured ~10.5 X 100 = 1050 lines for vertical resolution with a 1080p plasma display.

John

John, on my 1080p plasma, using the 6-8 wedge segment, I can definitely see out to the limit (8). I'll check again, but I'm almost sure that's what I saw last night. That would give me a minimum of 1422 horiz. rez.

What I find odd is that it appears the 6-8 wedge segment appears clearer than that same 6-8 slice of the larger wedge that goes from 7-11 (even though you can't obviously see the '6' there since it begins at 7)! Even the picture you posted of the pattern seems to show this. It's probably just an illusion.
post #4822 of 17987
Valuable tip from aaronwt about the need for 1:1 pixel mapping in the correct mode to achieve full resolution from HDNet patterns with 960X1080 DLP wobulated displays.

One of these years perhaps the 'missing' resolution from HDNet's patterns delivered by some systems, and presumably normal programming as well, will be restored. -- John
post #4823 of 17987
Here are the stats from my test pattern clip recorded via FIOS from HDnet.

Code:
Duration: 0:09:58
Data Size: 1.16 GB
Bit Rate: 16.58 Mbps

Video Tracks:
224 MPEG-2, 1920 × 1080, 16:9, 29.97 fps, 19.39 Mbps, upper field first

Audio Tracks:
128 AC3 3/2, 48 kHz, 384 kbps
I'd say I can see defined lines till 9 on the vertical lines just above the center and about 10 on the horizontal lines. Viewing on my PDP-6010FD in Standard mode.
post #4824 of 17987
Hey, we actually got a mailing here in the N.Y. area for the new IMG that is coming. Hard to believe.
post #4825 of 17987
I had a problem with the IMG, thought I'd let you know about it. Last night I started having the screen freeze with a message on the screen (I think it was that service was unavailable). This happened when I changed channels to any other channel either by channel up / down or by using the guide.

I tried powering the DVR off and then on, but this only fixed it for a bit. I called the FIOS service and the service person immediately told me that it was a problem with the IMG. The problem is apparently going to be fixed with a new release, but until then, she gave me a work around which seemed to work well:

1. power down the DVR.
2. unplug the coax able from the DVR.
3 wait about 30 seconds.
4. reconnect the coax.
5. plug the power back on.
6. Turn the DVR on ONLY after the time is displayed.

Seemed to work fine, it is annoying, but there it is. The FIOS rep was apologetic and gave me something that worked, so my temperature has gne down.
post #4826 of 17987
not programing related but its Vz news

Did any one read this: http://newscenter.verizon.com/press-...fast-with.html

Vz launched 20MBps download/20Mbps upload in NY and CT. for $64.99 monthly..

20MB upload is insane... they may launch that in VA or northern VA sometime in the future.. but that is just crazy upload speeds.


any one in NY or CT have this new data plan????
post #4827 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

I had a problem with the IMG, thought I'd let you know about it. Last night I started having the screen freeze with a message on the screen (I think it was that service was unavailable). This happened when I changed channels to any other channel either by channel up / down or by using the guide.....

How did you know when you got the new IMG update?
post #4828 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzy View Post

How did you know when you got the new IMG update?

I didn't - I expect it will come in sometime soon, but the workaround has now worked for a couple of days, so it works fine.
post #4829 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtv757 View Post

not programing related but its Vz news

Did any one read this: http://newscenter.verizon.com/press-...fast-with.html

Vz launched 20MBps download/20Mbps upload in NY and CT. for $64.99 monthly..

20MB upload is insane... they may launch that in VA or northern VA sometime in the future.. but that is just crazy upload speeds.


any one in NY or CT have this new data plan????

I have the FiOS 30/5 service and like it. I have no need for 20 up. With 30 down, many sites can't keep up with it (which means 30 is overkill in many instances). I pay less than $64 for my 30/5. 20/20 count me not interested. I have heard it said that this new 20/20 service may help with HD-VOD, but I do not see how.
post #4830 of 17987
Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

I didn't - I expect it will come in sometime soon, but the workaround has now worked for a couple of days, so it works fine.

Sorry, I meant how did you first know when the IMG update had been made? The update you are having problems with..
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