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Optoma H72 - Page 2

post #31 of 2915
10/23/05 at 6:42pm
Maybe we could get this thread "sticky" since with CES approaching fast, there will be more info coming out, and H72 being the new DLP projector using DDP3020 and WXGA DMD, it should be interesting to see how it competes with HC3000 or other new 720p LCD projectors.
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post #32 of 2915
10/23/05 at 9:02pm
TzungILin,

Since you work for Optoma what about you giving us some information?
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post #33 of 2915
10/23/05 at 9:39pm
I work for Coretronic, the DLP OEM manufacture for many brand names. Optoma is just one OEM customer.

R&D has early information, but R&D needs to be very careful about what to say, it really depends on the marketing folks on customer side to decide when to release and what to release.

Hence I can only suggest to make this sticky, and when information is available, people can easily find the info.

Since H72 was shown at Oslo, there are some basic information out, (see previous post from Norway web site), one can already gather many information from it:

new WXGA 1280x768
DDP3020 (the Brilliant Color chip)
Dual digital input

Let me comment on what is known. The DDP3020 Brilliant Color really works! It makes the color more vibrant, more vivid, the end result is that the image looks more 3D-like. However, for purist, one may still prefer the "film"-look or the "realistic"-look before the Brilliant Color enhancement.

Dual digital input maybe the first unique offering in this level of pricing. Nowadays, many people have more than 1 digital source, HDMI DVD, HDMI D-VHS, DVI-HDCP DTV STB, ... etc. This offers user the ability to connect up to two digital sources. Of course, one can buy 2-to-1 DVI switcher or selector. But for most average users, this provides an straight forward route. It's your pick, you can connect directly to two digital source, or you can still use a switcher or switching it from you new A/V Receiver.

The image quality will give the LCD 720p competitions a pretty tough time. With H72 and HC3000 (and maybe other manufactures, INFOCUS, BENQ, as well) coming at competitive pricing, the Brilliant Color capability with DLP's higher perceived contrast ratio will leave consumers good alternatives to 720p LCD.

So, it's an ALL-WIN situation for the end consumer!
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post #34 of 2915
10/23/05 at 11:31pm
TzungILin, will the throw distance be like DV10, H57, or H27. Hope you can leak it!
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post #35 of 2915
10/24/05 at 10:55am
TzungILin,

"The image quality will give the LCD 720p competitions a pretty tough time."

Another DLP showstopper for a lot of people is lack of lens shift.

Can you say if the H72 will have it?

Thanks
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post #36 of 2915
10/24/05 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzungILin View Post

I work for Coretronic, the DLP OEM manufacture for many brand names. Optoma is just one OEM customer.

R&D has early information, but R&D needs to be very careful about what to say, it really depends on the marketing folks on customer side to decide when to release and what to release.

Hence I can only suggest to make this sticky, and when information is available, people can easily find the info.

Since H72 was shown at Oslo, there are some basic information out, (see previous post from Norway web site), one can already gather many information from it:

new WXGA 1280x768
DDP3020 (the Brilliant Color chip)
Dual digital input

Let me comment on what is known. The DDP3020 Brilliant Color really works! It makes the color more vibrant, more vivid, the end result is that the image looks more 3D-like. However, for purist, one may still prefer the "film"-look or the "realistic"-look before the Brilliant Color enhancement.

Dual digital input maybe the first unique offering in this level of pricing. Nowadays, many people have more than 1 digital source, HDMI DVD, HDMI D-VHS, DVI-HDCP DTV STB, ... etc. This offers user the ability to connect up to two digital sources. Of course, one can buy 2-to-1 DVI switcher or selector. But for most average users, this provides an straight forward route. It's your pick, you can connect directly to two digital source, or you can still use a switcher or switching it from you new A/V Receiver.

The image quality will give the LCD 720p competitions a pretty tough time. With H72 and HC3000 (and maybe other manufactures, INFOCUS, BENQ, as well) coming at competitive pricing, the Brilliant Color capability with DLP's higher perceived contrast ratio will leave consumers good alternatives to 720p LCD.

So, it's an ALL-WIN situation for the end consumer!


Would anyone dare to guess a street price for such a machine?

Greg
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post #37 of 2915
10/24/05 at 2:42pm
It'll only be guessing, but I believe the H72 can be bought for 2700-2800$ when it arrives.
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post #38 of 2915
10/24/05 at 7:17pm
asterix,

The throw ratio will be similar to H57. So, it's not long throw like H27 or extreme short throw like DV10, it's more in-between.

noah,

Unfortunately, H72 does not have lens shift.

I also like lens shift better. TI's strategy on bring the DLP cost down is to share or re-use the optical engine for data projector. Riding on the volume, they can have a lower cost overall for system (to cover their costly DMD chips!). So, sadly, that is why we only see lens shift on high end DLP, but not lower cost DLP.

Non-telecentric optical engine has higher contrast ratio than telecentric engine, DLP has been using non-telecentric engine for data projector for better performance and lower cost.

If the offset works for the end user, and they are not sensitive to rainbow, DLP still projects a better image, compared to LCD, with or without auto IRIS.

But with LCD camp adopting the auto IRIS, the good news for consumer is that if they are sensitive to rainbow, at least they now have an alternative that is very capable as well, at least the SONY HS50 has sown some very good image. Some have commented that Epson's implementation of auto IRIS is not as good as SONY.
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post #39 of 2915
10/24/05 at 8:12pm
I would think it will follow the same price track of H57.
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post #40 of 2915
10/25/05 at 10:15pm
I hope this thread become sticky though it is not officially announced.
Secondly, TzungIlin, could you say what is the 7th segment of the colorwheel if it is indeed 7 segment?
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post #41 of 2915
10/26/05 at 4:59am
From what I've heard the 7th segment is white.
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post #42 of 2915
10/28/05 at 3:33am
Anyone seen or heard any new info about the H72? The latest I've heard is that it is supposed to be released in Norway in January 06....
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post #43 of 2915
10/28/05 at 1:43pm
someone needs to hurry up and spill the beans on this new projector before I go out and buy an AE900!

I love the fact that it has Dual Digital inputs, very handy for those of use who dont have any digital video switching. saves having to buy a gefen.
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post #44 of 2915
10/29/05 at 3:03am
someone needs to hurry up and spill the beans on this new projector before I go out and buy a HC3000!

I love the fact that it has Dual Digital inputs, very handy for those of use who dont have any digital video switching. saves having to buy a gefen.
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post #45 of 2915
10/29/05 at 6:53am
Hey, guys, I think there are already enough of information that you need to know in this thread, especially in the spec from the Norway website.

The dual digital input was already mentioned there, it's 1x HDMI, 1x DVI/HDCP. Also mentioned was the 7-segment color wheel (and it is a white segment) and DCDi chip. These are already very different/unique spec than competing models.

And I've thrown in the ID look, so you should have enough info!

If you can wait, this is really a time where one should wait, since there are quite a few projector makers that have not revealed their plan yet, for example Infocus, and Optoma (not officially). BENQ just released PE7700 and PE8720, I don't know whether they have plans for WXGA or not. NEC has not said anything yet. I'll bet CES is the "last" trade show for any maker to announce their 2006 line up. So it's just two more months ...

But if you can't wait, go either way (AE900, HC3000) would seem to be a good choice, since nowadays, projectors are all very capable now, you won't go wrong with a reputable maker. It's just the tiny details that offer the competitions some difference choices, like LCD vs. DLP, VB vs. rainbow.

H72 does have some very unique features planned that are worth wait a little (for those that can wait):

1. dual digital input, 1x HDMI, 1x DVI/HDCP
2. 7-segment CW to have more Brilliant Color effect!
3. DCDi de-interlacer for 480i and 576i signals
4. A new feature for further image enhancement (and I can say no more), this combines with BrilliantColor can render a more 3D perception image.

It's your choice! To wait or not to wait!
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post #46 of 2915
10/29/05 at 8:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzungILin View Post

4. A new feature for further image enhancement (and I can say no more), this combines with BrilliantColor can render a more 3D perception image.

RGBYMCW colour wheel?
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post #47 of 2915
10/29/05 at 2:47pm
When is this projector supposed to be available in the US market?

I know that BC works on the HC3000, I want to know how it works on another projector especially if it has a RGBCMYW colorwheel?
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post #48 of 2915
10/29/05 at 11:10pm
I think it's rgbrgb+clear white like the HC900 color wheel, no?
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post #49 of 2915
10/30/05 at 3:11pm
This H72 is definitely the awaited year end Optoma 720p release. But with no lens shift, that means what, perfect shelf mounting only? And what kind of chip is this using? It's not going to be the Dark Chip 3 so what is it?

Sounds like a cheaper competitor to the still unreleased Mitsu. The cost alone should give more folks another real 720p option. That's a good thing.
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post #50 of 2915
10/30/05 at 5:04pm
It's the same DMD and the same DDP3020 chipsets that is used in the HC3000. I don't quite understand what you mean ... And both do not have lens shift.

Currently, there is only 0.65" 1280x768 DMD DC2 available, DC3 is not on TI's roadmap yet. So, H72 and HC3000 are using the very same chip.

In fact, H72 has DCDi, but HC3000 does not, so H72 has more design/features ...

So, your implication that H72 being a cheap make is really not that case ...

But if you are refering to 720p in general, then, yes, the LCD competitors have lens shift, but each technology has its strength and weakness, it's good to the consumer that they can pick any one that fits their needs.
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post #51 of 2915
10/30/05 at 10:59pm
No doubt it will be released in US pretty soon to compete with HC3000. Just wonder when it will be available in China, where projectors are not popular. Optoma is indeed present here, but excludes H31 and H78 from their H series. As for Benq, PE series not even present except the low end PE5120 surnamed "rainbow machine".
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post #52 of 2915
10/31/05 at 12:19am
Why use Faroudja in the H72 instead of Pixelworks, as in previous models? I think Pixelwork chips are superior..
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post #53 of 2915
10/31/05 at 4:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzungILin View Post

H72 does have some very unique features planned that are worth wait a little (for those that can wait):

1. dual digital input, 1x HDMI, 1x DVI/HDCP
2. 7-segment CW to have more Brilliant Color effect!
3. DCDi de-interlacer for 480i and 576i signals
4. A new feature for further image enhancement (and I can say no more), this combines with BrilliantColor can render a more 3D perception image.

It's your choice! To wait or not to wait!

Here is my take on H72:
1. 10-bit color processing capability is useless with DVI input.
2. 7-segment includes white segment on top of RGBRGB to get higher on/off contrast. Mitsu gets higher rated contrast without any white segment.
3. De-interlacer (supplied by TI, DDP2000) in HC900 was already better than DCDi as found by many reviewers. I don't understand why Optoma wants to use DCDi rather than in-built de-interlacer (supplied by TI, DDP3020).
4. Dynamic black? Dynamic iris? Is the iris fast enough?

I won't wait for H72.
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post #54 of 2915
10/31/05 at 7:08pm
I will wait for H72 for a lot of personal reasons:
- Optoma's H30, the lowest end, is amazingly good for me. Pity it is only 800x450 when viewing dvd and is reported to lose signals by quite many users. No reason H72 will be less good than H30 or H57. H72's white segment might increase brightness while keeping the good contrast just as Mitsu HC900 does.
- Like H27 and unlike H57, H72's lens is physically offset to the direction I just want because the place where I can put it is not in the center.
- H72 gives a bigger image than HC3000, as H57 vs HC900.
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post #55 of 2915
10/31/05 at 9:41pm
I saw the machine and like the look of it. I'll take one of these for the sheer brightness and DCDI. Since when has DCDI become second rate?
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post #56 of 2915
10/31/05 at 11:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosha View Post

Here is my take on H72:
1. 10-bit color processing capability is useless with DVI input.
2. 7-segment includes white segment on top of RGBRGB to get higher on/off contrast. Mitsu gets higher rated contrast without any white segment.
3. De-interlacer (supplied by TI, DDP2000) in HC900 was already better than DCDi as found by many reviewers. I don't understand why Optoma wants to use DCDi rather than in-built de-interlacer (supplied by TI, DDP3020).
4. Dynamic black? Dynamic iris? Is the iris fast enough?

I won't wait for H72.

Not quite! Here is why:
1. 7-segment used to be for On/Off contrast, not any more! Brilliant Color needs white segment, either you use the six spokes in between the RGBRGB or one could have a small white segment for more Brilliant Color effect. H72 has 10 steps, HC3000 has On/Off only. By finding the right size of the "small white" segment, we could offer more BC choices to end users.

2. We need to consider world wide market. DDP2000 is O.K. on 3-2 pull down, but 2-2 pull down is not good for EMEA. DCDi provides both NTSC/PAL 3-2 and 2-2 pull down with ease.

3. Scaling is another factor we looked into carefully. DCDi can output a good 720p directly, if DDP3020 is not good enough, DCDi can step in to help.

4. A small price paid for DCDi, we got two benefits, all-around de-interlacing and scaling choices. Plus, the marketing benefits.

Like I already said, one needs not to wait for H72 if the unique offering of dual digital, more powerful Brilliant Color, DCDi do not appear you. But if you find them interesting, and you are not in a hurry, why not wait around, just to see more choices?
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post #57 of 2915
11/1/05 at 4:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzungILin View Post

1. 7-segment used to be for On/Off contrast, not any more! Brilliant Color needs white segment, either you use the six spokes in between the RGBRGB or one could have a small white segment for more Brilliant Color effect. H72 has 10 steps, HC3000 has On/Off only. By finding the right size of the "small white" segment, we could offer more BC choices to end users.

You mentioned in this thread that "purists" would prefer the realistic-look before the Brilliant color enhancement. The extra steps that H72 adds by including white segment is to increase on/off contrast, not suitable for HT use. Also, I don't remember reading anywhere that BC wheel needs white segment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TzungILin View Post

3. Scaling is another factor we looked into carefully. DCDi can output a good 720p directly, if DDP3020 is not good enough, DCDi can step in to help.

I was thinking just the opposite. If the DCDi in my Panasonic S97 is not good enough to output 720p, DDP3020 can step in to help. De-interlacing/scaling is better if done correctly at the dvd player level than at the projector anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TzungILin View Post

But if you find them interesting, and you are not in a hurry, why not wait around, just to see more choices?.

More choices are always better for consumers. Is H72 coming out in the early December as the projectorreviews.com suggests? Hoping to see the reviews before then.
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post #58 of 2915
11/1/05 at 5:08am
Quote:


I saw the machine and like the look of it. I'll take one of these for the sheer brightness and DCDI. Since when has DCDI become second rate?

DCDi works a charm with 480, 576 an 720 signals, but not with 1080i. Pixelworks handles 1080i beutifully.
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post #59 of 2915
11/1/05 at 5:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosha View Post

You mentioned in this thread that "purists" would prefer the realistic-look before the Brilliant color enhancement. The extra steps that H72 adds by including white segment is to increase on/off contrast, not suitable for HT use. Also, I don't remember reading anywhere that BC wheel needs white segment.

I was thinking just the opposite. If the DCDi in my Panasonic S97 is not good enough to output 720p, DDP3020 can step in to help. De-interlacing/scaling is better if done correctly at the dvd player level than at the projector anyway.

More choices are always better for consumers. Is H72 coming out in the early December as the projectorreviews.com suggests? Hoping to see the reviews before then.

Yes, but how many potential buyers are "purists"? Offering more options and capability is better than none. Purist can just not use this function, but more users can enjoy selecting the needed enhancement as they prefer or desire.

But how many people have the best progressive DVD player? I agree if you have a HDMI DVD with DCDi carefully design-in, then there is no need for de-interlacer inside the projector. Just send a 720p HDMI signal from the DVD to any HDMI projector. Then again, most people do not even have progressive DVD, let alone HDMI DVD. You may have S97, then you don't need a projector with DCDi. But each case is different, I believe most people do not have proper de-interlacing on their DVD players.

As for BC needs white segment, you will see when more BC products come out.
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post #60 of 2915
11/1/05 at 8:14am
what is the wheel speed of BC? 4x? 5x? also, hate to miss out on the ND segment. I can see dithering as close as 2 screen widths.......depending on content, sometimes even further. also, will the white segment not also cause high ire's to shift to cyan and also screw with the gamma?

thanks
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