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Ambient Light screen development thread.. - Page 8

post #211 of 514
Tha-lo

The 'a' sounds like the 'a' in Halo.
post #212 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximAvs View Post

Tha-lo

The 'a' sounds like the 'a' in Halo.


Phthanks!
post #213 of 514
Incidentally, I found Phthalo Green at Pearl's discount art supplies in Chicago. One bottle, clearly mis-stocked.

I also picked up some metallic pewter, and I may add a little bit of that to the mix.

Flex component for vinyl? I'll have to look into that. An on-line search may be in order...
post #214 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by tekdredger View Post

Phthanks!

Excellent. Who says folks behind the "cheddar curtain" don't have a sense of humor? Not me!
post #215 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer View Post


Flex component for vinyl? I'll have to look into that. An on-line search may be in order...


Your looking for Bulldog Adhesion Promotor or Bulldog B.F.T. Both help paint stick to plastics, works good on plastic and urethane bumpers. The BFT is a paint additive that adds flex, but I don't know what it will do to the look of paint mixture on a screen. The adhesion promoter is a spray on under coat. If something is going to help paint stick to a roll up vinyl screen this should help, but repeated rolling may still crack the paint over time, maybe not though?
post #216 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by gprro1 View Post

Your looking for Bulldog Adhesion Promotor or Bulldog B.F.T. Both help paint stick to plastics, works good on plastic and urethane bumpers. The BFT is a paint additive that adds flex, but I don't know what it will do to the look of paint mixture on a screen. The adhesion promoter is a spray on under coat. If something is going to help paint stick to a roll up vinyl screen this should help, but repeated rolling may still crack the paint over time, maybe not though?

Perhaps both are needed. An adhesion promoter to reduce flaking, and a flex additive to reduce cracking, if necessary.

I am inclined to go with what I have right now, and if I run into a problem with cracking, do it again with the flex additive, and if I am having problems sticking, go with the adhesion promoter.
post #217 of 514
Of some other possible interest from the automotive world; There is a product called Photoblocker license plate spray that is super reflective. It's used for defeating red light and photo radar camera's. It also works on toll booth cameras, but I didn't say that. A little expensive at $29.99 a can.

I wonder if this could help some how with screen making. Or maybe someone here can figure out how to DIY the same product for cheaper for my car. Thats another thread/forum though. The diy barely legal license plate thread


Edit: I think the BFT also has some adhesion helping properties, so may be fine if it is thr only thing used?
post #218 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by gprro1 View Post

Of some other possible interest from the automotive world; There is a product called Photoblocker license plate spray that is super reflective. It's used for defeating red light and photo radar camera's. It also works on toll booth cameras, but I didn't say that. A little expensive at $29.99 a can.

I wonder if this could help some how with screen making. Or maybe someone here can figure out how to DIY the same product for cheaper for my car. Thats another thread/forum though. The diy barely legal license plate thread


Edit: I think the BFT also has some adhesion helping properties, so may be fine if it is thr only thing used?

Do-it-yourself barely legal...? OOOOOHHHHH--license plate. Gotcha.
post #219 of 514
Ok, here are some pics of a new mix I have been playing with. I am very, very suprised at the results. Only 5 ingredients and I am getting results equal to my other mix with 13 ingredients.
On all the pics to follow, my new mix is on the left, my mix I posted the other day, the one for moderate lighting and controlled lighting is on the right.

I need to tinker a bit more with it in differant ratios but I am pretty much positive it will work.

In all the pics there are 3 - 60 watt spot lamps pointed directly at the screen from about 16 feet away, a 60 watt ceiling light in the back of the room about 20 feet away, and a 60 watt table lamp is on about 12 feet away.

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post #220 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

Ok, here are some pics of a new mix I have been playing with. I am very, very suprised at the results. Only 5 ingredients and I am getting results equal to my other mix with 13 ingredients.
On all the pics to follow, my new mix is on the left, my mix I posted the other day, the one for moderate lighting and controlled lighting is on the right.

I need to tinker a bit more with it in differant ratios but I am pretty much positive it will work.

In all the pics there are 3 - 60 watt spot lamps pointed directly at the screen from about 16 feet away, a 60 watt ceiling light in the back of the room about 20 feet away, and a 60 watt table lamp is on about 12 feet away.

Very impressive, indeed. I understand you don't want to give the ratios, but what are the ingredients?
post #221 of 514
I have never used Bulldog on vinyl, but it should work. I usually add a little bit of MEK or acetone to my base coat. This gives it bite. As for the flex additive, I haven't used it. If you are not flexing the screen, then it should not matter. Microfracture takes place when you start flexing the substrate. The only ones who should be concerned with flex is the people doing a Torus.

Ericglo
post #222 of 514
"Ok, here are some pics of a new mix I have been playing with. I am very, very suprised at the results. Only 5 ingredients and I am getting results equal to my other mix with 13 ingredients."-biglyle

Equal to??? Is it my pos monitor?... looks much better than the other mix on your a/b comparison there.
post #223 of 514
biglyle,

just wanted to say congrats... and also to make a couple of constructive comments...
please understand, i don't have your screens in front of me so certainly you can
take anything i say with a grain of salt.

on the first pic... i like the new mix better overall. it has a slight bluer push to it
though not necessarily bad. you can tell this by difference in the curtains.

on the second pic... it's no contest. the old mix definately starts to fade/ghost away.

on the james dean pic... other than the richness of the shirt on your new mix...
i sorta prefer the older mix. however, it's clear to see that if you add one more 60 watt bulb
or move one of your other lights closer to the screen... the older mix would be no match.

again, i also slightly prefer the older mix... although the same thing i said about
the james dean pic would hold true here as well.

all in all, your new mix definitely has better ambient qualities than your older mix.
what's your accessment of it's controlled viewing vs. your older mix?

-maxx
post #224 of 514
OK--I have tinkered a bit myself. With the BLAM! formulation, I didn't think I was getting enough ambient light benefit, so I added a bottle of Delta metallic pewter to the mix (2 oz), and these are the results I got.

I plan to put probably one more coat on the screen to even out the coating, minimze the roller marks. The screen itself is shown as the last picture, and you can see how it is just held up there (It's getting late, and I wanted to get some pictures taken, so I just slapped it up there).











post #225 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

Ok, here are some pics of a new mix I have been playing with. I am very, very suprised at the results. Only 5 ingredients and I am getting results equal to my other mix with 13 ingredients.

Is this a UPW-free mix by chance? Those results look similar to what I was getting with one of the test mixes I posted earlier using only minwax, deep base, silver and pearl, but there was a bit too much hotspotting. If we could only find a substitute for UPW that cuts out the sheen without killing the ambient qualities....
post #226 of 514
It has almost half UPW and no metallic silver at all.
post #227 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

It has almost half UPW and no metallic silver at all.

Amazing... I never would have guessed this.

So I take it you have some sort of transluscent white over a darker base?
post #228 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Time View Post

Amazing... I never would have guessed this.

So I take it you have some sort of transluscent white over a darker base?

If so, I propose the following name for it:

Big Lyle's Ambient Mix Made Opalescent (BLAMMO!)
post #229 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

It has almost half UPW and no metallic silver at all.

Now that is a revelation, no metallic silver.

It also Seems we are moving away from the RGB/CMYK pigment theory of light absorption and band pass methods.

For the last two days I have been experimenting with thinned paint, applied in thin layers of CMY over 12x12 mirror tiles.

I have found that it definitely increases ambient light tolerance but, at the expensive of brightness as would be expected. On top of the three very thin CMY layers I sprayed a very thin coat of pearl, then finally a very thin coat of Silver metallic. So biglyle you have me thinking a very thinned out coat of UPW might be better than the Silver Metallic.


I also found when I peeled off thin sheets of the CMY layered coating that the reverse side appears brown in color when viewed a few feet away but that up close you can see the discrete CMY dots or a pattern if you will.

I am headed out to Indonesia today and will not be back until Dec. 10th. Wouldn't you know it just when things are getting interesting. You can be sure I will log on immediately upon my return to see what you guys have developed.

Rich
post #230 of 514
biglyle, are you ready for the big reveal (as they say on Overhaulin')?? Inquiring minds............
post #231 of 514
Drum roll please...
post #232 of 514
Try this on for size, mix actually has 5 paints instead of 4 now (I know, I know, what a pain in the arse)

let me know your results


1/4 cup UPW
1/2 cup pearl (preferably delta, but folk art or behr will do)
1/4 cup minwax (satin)
1/4 cup deep base
1/8 to 1/4 cup folk art metallic sequin black (to taste)

This should be plenty for good size sample screen.
post #233 of 514
Can this mix be rolled with good results or better sprayed?
What is a good material to poitn this on? Will it work on MDF? If so what priming/preperation should be done first?
post #234 of 514
MDF will be fine. Prime it with a good primer, then apply 3 coats gloss white as a base.
Then 3 coats of the mix.

Spray for best results, dense foam roller for almost as good as spraying and 1/4 nap roller for very good.
post #235 of 514
OK, so a couple questions. (My projector= a BenQ PE 5120):

1) I work at a hospital where I have access to very small diameter needles/syringes. Depending on the bore of the needle, one drop can be pretty big or it can be pretty small. So, can anyone tell me how many drops make, oh let's say a 1/10th cc ? I'd rather just draw up the drops in a small 'TB' syringe than worry about whether my drops are the proper size/amount.

2) I also could not find the Delta Pthalo green transparent but DID find Createx brand Pthalo green transparent. Should work shouldn't it?

3) I am using some gatorboard (foamcore 'presentation' board' white finish both sides) that is 1/2" thick that I purchased from an 'Arts and Education' store. I thought the 3/16th thick looked too wavey (althought it didn't appear any moreso than the MDF.) The foam-core's advantages to me are that it is flatter than the MDF and obviously a LOT lighter. I wanted easy portability so I could move my setup anywhere in the house. I plan to put a hard edge on it for protection and then just velcro it to different walls. In some rooms there will be more ambient light than others. Should the amibient light formula be modified any to give an 'overall' best ? Probably should leave out the aluminum? I'm thinking about putting one formula onto one side and either leaving the other white as is or possibly using a different formula on the other side. Any suggestions/experiences?

[edit] Oops! Sorry, I didn't see the latest formula. Guess I don't need all the colors now ?


Great forum! Wish I'd have found it before I purchased my BenQ. Is it a good value at $849 with a spare bulb for $18 ? (don't want to highjack, so if you can PM me?)
post #236 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

Try this on for size, mix actually has 5 paints instead of 4 now (I know, I know, what a pain in the arse)

let me know your results


1/4 cup UPW
1/2 cup pearl (preferably delta, but folk art or behr will do)
1/4 cup minwax (satin)
1/4 cup deep base
1/8 to 1/4 cup folk art metallic sequin black (to taste)

This should be plenty for good size sample screen.

BigLyle: What are your thoughts on a dual system (dark base, lighter/translucent top)?
post #237 of 514
OK, I just purchased the ingredients and bought a Durotherm Lite board from the local stores (Durotherm Lite from Menards.) Do I need to paint the Durotherm board with a high gloss enamel before using your mixture? My projector is a BenQ 5120 DLP, specs of 1100 lumen, 2000:1 contrast and will be used mostly at night (DVI input from DVD player) but I will have a fair amount of light during the day (but I can use blackout cloth on the windows if needed.)

I suppose I could just test and see but I'd rather not.

TIA,

Charlie

Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

Try this on for size, mix actually has 5 paints instead of 4 now (I know, I know, what a pain in the arse)

let me know your results


1/4 cup UPW
1/2 cup pearl (preferably delta, but folk art or behr will do)
1/4 cup minwax (satin)
1/4 cup deep base
1/8 to 1/4 cup folk art metallic sequin black (to taste)

This should be plenty for good size sample screen.
post #238 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer View Post

BigLyle: What are your thoughts on a dual system (dark base, lighter/translucent top)?

Steve,
I just rolled a medium-grey basecoat with a Liquiscreen topcoat (translucent milky sort of color. I even tried a patch where I added a drop of metallic black to the topcoat to see if it made any difference with ambient light rejection.
post #239 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by psennett View Post

Steve,
I even tried a patch where I added a drop of metallic black to the topcoat to see if it made any difference with ambient light rejection.

Big 'ol Lyle is saying 9% to 18% of his total mix is metallic black. Did you see much effect with what you added?
post #240 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc G View Post

Big 'ol Lyle is saying 9% to 18% of his total mix is metallic black. Did you see much effect with what you added?

My first coat was a little spotty, so I needed a little fill-in. It's dry now and I'm letting it breathe a bit.

Edit: The verdict is -- pfffftttttt. The thing is just too dark. It doesn't please my eye, and the Liquiscreen topcoat is definitely prone to hotspotting, with or without a drop of black metallic. I'm glad I made those up in tiny batches, so it's not all wasted.

So far the RS-MMaxxx v1.5 is still the best sample on hand.

Now I think I'll try a small batch of Lyle's simple mix (LSM?)
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