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Ambient Light screen development thread.. - Page 9

post #241 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by psennett View Post

My first coat was a little spotty, so I needed a little fill-in. It's dry now and I'm letting it breathe a bit.

Edit: The verdict is -- pfffftttttt. The thing is just too dark. It doesn't please my eye, and the Liquiscreen topcoat is definitely prone to hotspotting, with or without a drop of black metallic. I'm glad I made those up in tiny batches, so it's not all wasted.

So far the RS-MMaxxx v1.5 is still the best sample on hand.

Now I think I'll try a small batch of Lyle's simple mix (LSM?)

psennett - What mix are you referring too that is too dark?
post #242 of 514
I agree with psennett. biglyle's mix is much too dark for my liking.
post #243 of 514
Can PLAS-TEX PolyWall be painted with one of the paint formulas? Didnt know if paint would stick to this plastic. If it does whats a good primer to use on this type of plastic?
post #244 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by schooner2000 View Post

psennett - What mix are you referring too that is too dark?

My attempt at layering a medium grey base under a translucent topcoat (the topcoat of Liquiscreen.)

Patrick
post #245 of 514
I agree, after a few days of curing my first mix is a much better choice.
Oh well, back to the drawing board.
post #246 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

I agree, after a few days of curing my first mix is a much better choice.
Oh well, back to the drawing board.

So the 5 part mix is the one that is too dark?
post #247 of 514
Since names have not been "officially" adopted for biglyle's mixes, I offer the following temporary names to make it easier to reference them.

14PA - (Part Ambient)
1/2 cup minwax varnish (satin)
1/2 cup deep base
1/2 cup UPW
1/2 cup behr WOP or delta Pearl
1/2 cup Delta Silver Metallic
1/4 cup Folk Art Sterling silver Metallic
1/4 cup Folk Art metallic aluminum
15 drops Folk art bright red metallic
15 drops delta bright red - transparent
6 drops delta phalo green - transparent
3 drops delta phalo blue - transparent
3 drops flok art metallic amethyst
15 drops folk art metallic inca gold
15 drops delta yellow - transparent

13PLC - (Part Light Controlled)
1/2 cup minwax varnish (satin)
1/2 cup deep base
1/2 cup UPW
1/2 cup behr WOP or delta Pearl
1/2 cup Delta Silver Metallic
1/8 cup Folk Art Sterling silver Metallic
10 drops Folk art bright red metallic
10 drops delta bright red - transparent
4 drops delta phalo green - transparent
2 drops delta phalo blue - transparent
2 drops flok art metallic amethyst
10 drops folk art metallic inca gold
10 drops delta yellow - transparent

5PL - (Part Light)
1/4 cup UPW
1/2 cup pearl (preferably delta, but folk art or behr will do)
1/4 cup minwax (satin)
1/4 cup deep base
1/8 cup folk art metallic sequin black

5PD - (Part Dark)
1/4 cup UPW
1/2 cup pearl (preferably delta, but folk art or behr will do)
1/4 cup minwax (satin)
1/4 cup deep base
1/4 cup folk art metallic sequin black
post #248 of 514
biglyle,

I'm ready to mix up the 5PL. If you agree it is too dark, what change would you suggest to lighten it up. I would be testing it in a totally light controlled room. I also hope to test your 14PA in ambient but most likely at a later date. Thanks
post #249 of 514
I would add the black in smaller amounts and stick with a shade you dont find as dark.
I tried a sample with about half the black and it looked a lot better.
post #250 of 514
Okay, here's what I will try and I gave it a temp name.

5PLV2 - (Part Light Version 2)
1/4 cup UPW
1/2 cup pearl (preferably delta, but folk art or behr will do)
1/4 cup minwax (satin)
1/4 cup deep base
1/16 cup folk art metallic sequin black

Here it is converted into parts:

4 parts UPW
8 parts pearl (preferably delta, but folk art or behr will do)
4 parts minwax (satin)
4 parts deep base
1 part folk art metallic sequin black
post #251 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Time View Post

Okay, here's what I will try and I gave it a temp name.

5PLV2 - (Part Light Version 2)
1/4 cup UPW
1/2 cup pearl (preferably delta, but folk art or behr will do)
1/4 cup minwax (satin)
1/4 cup deep base
1/16 cup folk art metallic sequin black

Here it is converted into parts:

4 parts UPW
8 parts pearl (preferably delta, but folk art or behr will do)
4 parts minwax (satin)
4 parts deep base
1 part folk art metallic sequin black

aka
60ml UPW
120ml cup pearl (preferably delta, but folk art or behr will do)
60ml cup minwax (satin)
60ml cup deep base
15ml folk art metallic sequin black

Because, y'know, that's the way I am.
post #252 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by psennett View Post

aka
60ml UPW
120ml cup pearl (preferably delta, but folk art or behr will do)
60ml cup minwax (satin)
60ml cup deep base
15ml folk art metallic sequin black

Because, y'know, that's the way I am.

Thanks. So am I :-) I'm anxiously awaiting results from you 'experienced' players who havr already got your feet wet in the paint. I'm really hoping the latest formula works well as I already returned all the other Folk Art/Delta paints!
One request. I'm using DuroTherm board and would like to know what you're working with and any prep (base coats) you are using. I'm thinking a standard 3-coat of gloss white enamel?

Charlie
post #253 of 514
Thats correct charlie. BigLyle suggested a primer and 3 coats UPW Gloss. Im going to order my MDF board tomorrow. Ill be pulling my hair out on which formula to use.
post #254 of 514
I'm using UPW gloss latex for my base.

dave1969,

Do you prefer yours to work well with ambient light or with the lights off?
post #255 of 514
Im getting dizzy though reading all these threads on different formulas. Im learning towards BigLyles formula with the 1/16 sequin black like you are doing. Let me know how it works out. Im still waiting for my new proj to come in or else Id have results sooner
post #256 of 514
dave1969,

With the 14PA mix being biglyle's first choice for ambient light, if I had to paint one of these up today for use with ambient light it would be the 14PA. Of course, who knows maybe the 5PLV2 will fare better. I won't be able to compare the two for at least 2 weeks. Hopefully someone else will get to it sooner. I expect to post my preliminary findings on the 5PLV2 in a day or so, but I will hold off until the end of the week posting any final say on how it fares. I should say too I'm hoping the 5PLV2 will fare well with the lights off as well as on.
post #257 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Time View Post

I'm using UPW gloss latex for my base.

dave1969,

Do you prefer yours to work well with ambient light or with the lights off?

As far as ambient vs lights out formulas, I'm actually wanting both ! :-) I plan to paint one side of my DuraTherm board for ambient light conditions and the other for lights out conditions. Unless of course someone comes up with a formula that makes doing it unnecessary or not worth the effort !

I do need to get the gloss paint still. The UPW looks to be the whitest white I've seen in stores. On a PVC type board like I'm using, I doubt a coat of primer is needed since it is probably not going to absorb much if any paint, but I would HIGHLY recommend using actual primer paint before using any basecoat paints on MDF or any other boards that can absorb. It 'seals' the board so you'll get more even coatings and will give a much truer final color. Primers are more valuable in getting true colors onto walls than people realize. IMHO, if you guys are skipping this step, you may not be comparing apples to apples as you think, especially if the densities/absorption properties of your boards are slightly different.

Charlie
post #258 of 514
Painting both sides of your durotherm is an excellent idea. No chance of one formula being best for ambient and light control. Right, primer is needed for MDF. I rolled UPW gloss directly to a DoAble vinyl board. Not sure though how well UPW would take directly to a durotherm.
post #259 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie46227 View Post

As far as ambient vs lights out formulas, I'm actually wanting both ! :-) I plan to paint one side of my DuraTherm board for ambient light conditions and the other for lights out conditions. Unless of course someone comes up with a formula that makes doing it unnecessary or not worth the effort !

I do need to get the gloss paint still. The UPW looks to be the whitest white I've seen in stores. On a PVC type board like I'm using, I doubt a coat of primer is needed since it is probably not going to absorb much if any paint, but I would HIGHLY recommend using actual primer paint before using any basecoat paints on MDF or any other boards that can absorb. It 'seals' the board so you'll get more even coatings and will give a much truer final color. Primers are more valuable in getting true colors onto walls than people realize. IMHO, if you guys are skipping this step, you may not be comparing apples to apples as you think, especially if the densities/absorption properties of your boards are slightly different.

Charlie

The problem with painting both sides of the Durotherm is that one side is very smooth and the other side was rather rutted - at least the one I bought was that way. Unless you plan on putting the paint on thick enough to even out the ruts.
post #260 of 514
I ran with BLAM! (pretty sure this isn't an official title, but I like it--BLAM=Big Lyle's Ambient Mix--the one that had the colors in it (Not sure if the colors are needed...)), and as I stated before (and posted in multiple screen shots), added some stuff--which made my screen just a wee bit too dark (I wasn't totally sold, and my wife didn't like it).

So I added some other stuff, and got a mixture that, shade wise, was a couple of hairs darker than the original BLAM!, and a bit lighter than my previous mix, painted a few coats over my previous mix, put it up, and am very pleased with the results (and so is the real critic--my wife). I'll post some screen shots later, which I think people will be generally pleased with. But in the spirit of the current state of DIY, I am not going to post the formula. :P


Just kidding.

I took BLAM!, added a bottle of Delta metallic pewter, which made the screen too dark. I then took that mix, added probably a 1/4 cup UPW (not precise, I just added until I got the shade I desired), and an additional 2oz bottle of Delta pearl, and settled on the current mixture, which I painted in three coats over the darker mixture. I don't know if the current ambient qualities stem from the painting of the lighter mixture over the darker one (I certainly can't see any of the darker mixture underneath the light one).

So last night, with lights blazing, I had the screen in use, and liked the result. I even preferred the screen in total blackness, because the blacks seemed much darker, without losing much with the whites.

Tonight, when I get home, I'll try to finish the screen completely (DIY roll-down, so needs some manipulatin'), take some screen shots, and get them posted.


EDIT: One thing I wanted to mention was how much I like using that thick vinyl material. It just lays nicely as a DIY roll-down material. The real test will be when I actually get it up, but it's fairly heavy, and with a weight bottom, I think it will do a lot better at minimizing waves than my BOC--and certainly there are no wrinkles in the material.
post #261 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer View Post

I ran with BLAM! (pretty sure this isn't an official title, but I like it--BLAM=Big Lyle's Ambient Mix--the one that had the colors in it (Not sure if the colors are needed...)), and as I stated before (and posted in multiple screen shots), added some stuff--which made my screen just a wee bit too dark (I wasn't totally sold, and my wife didn't like it).

So I added some other stuff, and got a mixture that, shade wise, was a couple of hairs darker than the original BLAM!, and a bit lighter than my previous mix, painted a few coats over my previous mix, put it up, and am very pleased with the results (and so is the real critic--my wife). I'll post some screen shots later, which I think people will be generally pleased with. But in the spirit of the current state of DIY, I am not going to post the formula. :P


Just kidding.

I took BLAM!, added a bottle of Delta metallic pewter, which made the screen too dark. I then took that mix, added probably a 1/4 cup UPW (not precise, I just added until I got the shade I desired), and an additional 2oz bottle of Delta pearl, and settled on the current mixture, which I painted in three coats over the darker mixture. I don't know if the current ambient qualities stem from the painting of the lighter mixture over the darker one (I certainly can't see any of the darker mixture underneath the light one).

So last night, with lights blazing, I had the screen in use, and liked the result. I even preferred the screen in total blackness, because the blacks seemed much darker, without losing much with the whites.

Tonight, when I get home, I'll try to finish the screen completely (DIY roll-down, so needs some manipulatin'), take some screen shots, and get them posted.


EDIT: One thing I wanted to mention was how much I like using that thick vinyl material. It just lays nicely as a DIY roll-down material. The real test will be when I actually get it up, but it's fairly heavy, and with a weight bottom, I think it will do a lot better at minimizing waves than my BOC--and certainly there are no wrinkles in the material.

Oh great, so if we take a published formula, add too much of this, add more of that to compensate (formula not published because it isn't known), we'll come up with a mix to please YOUR WIFE!

If it wasn't confusing enough already..... Where's that sharp knife I keep around?
post #262 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by psennett View Post

Where's that sharp knife I keep around?

I think someone stole it and keeps throwing it at me over on "The Effort...."
But zats OK 'cause I keep my Chain Mail Shirt on all the time.

Rearrainging a mix is the most fun part of it all, and sometimes improves upon a already known and accepted value.

Sometimes however, it can go "BLAM" in your face!

(No adverse suggestion or reference intended )
post #263 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by psennett View Post

Oh great, so if we take a published formula, add too much of this, add more of that to compensate (formula not published because it isn't known), we'll come up with a mix to please YOUR WIFE!

If it wasn't confusing enough already..... Where's that sharp knife I keep around?

Hey--pleasing my wife is what it is all about. But I'm the only one allowed to do so!
post #264 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Scherrer View Post

Hey--pleasing my wife is what it is all about. But I'm the only one allowed to do so!

Don't I know it! Married 7 years now.

I'm going to tinker with BLAM and the 14PA sample I have. With the BLAM, I'm going to use black transparent and some silvers, different batches and just some small panels.

Bubble bubble, toil and trouble.....
post #265 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1969 View Post

Thats correct charlie. BigLyle suggested a primer and 3 coats UPW Gloss. Im going to order my MDF board tomorrow. Ill be pulling my hair out on which formula to use.

Here is my DIY screen history. I started out with a white wall. Not good enough, hotspotting et al. I then used a board simialr to Do-Able with a white glossy finish and I painted 2 coats dry rolled Behr SS. Much better.
I am getting ready to paint an ambient light screen based on a formula in this thread. Here is my question.

How important is the UPW Base Coat?
What is the purpose of the UPW Base Coat?
Exactly what kind of UPW is to be used for a Base Coat?
I have purchased Behr UPW Interior High Gloss Enamel and painted (with a roller, 1/4" nap) 2 coats on a piece of MDF and it looks terible. Lousy finish, not smooth, almost hotspotting, but not. I would hate to mix an expensive DIY batch of BLAM and screw it up because I screwed up the base coat. Can I get a definitive answer, please? Also, if possible list exactly what I should buy at HD. There are so many UPW's by BEHR, latex, enamel, high gloss, gloss, interior, exterior, I'm just not sure which one to get. Thanks in advance.

Chuck
post #266 of 514
My approach (in progress) has been to break down the mix(es) into 3 parts:
1. Base / medium. These are the things that take up the most volume, such as the deep base or UPW.
2. Iridescents. These are the silvers and pearls.
3. Pigments. The tools to correct color shifting and possibly help filter out wavelengths that are not aligned with the projectors filters.

I did a test panel (no pure silvers) that gave me hope of pigments actually filtering specific wavelengths. The panel had nearly identical color to my Behr Silverscreen screen under light coming in from the window (reflected off snow, so relatively blue). It appeared nearly identical under a pair of incandescent lights. And as I turned on the projector I got disappointing results: it still appeared the same as the Silverscreen. But then, as I watched my beloved Packers fight the good fight in the first half against da Bears, I noticed the green of the grass did not match. It was not nearly as washed out on the panel as it was on the silverscreen. In fact, it matched the silverscreen only when I blocked out the incandescent bulbs! I was so surprised that I didn't see what happened when Brett threw the ball into the endzone near the end of the first half! (And please don't tell me what happened...)

I can't claim to know exactly what's happening in that paint, but if I can expand that "metamer" effect, I may actually have something to contribute to this forum.
post #267 of 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by psennett View Post

The problem with painting both sides of the Durotherm is that one side is very smooth and the other side was rather rutted - at least the one I bought was that way. Unless you plan on putting the paint on thick enough to even out the ruts.

You are correct. I had forgotten about that as I originally had a piece of 1/2" gatorboard that was smooth on both sides. I'm still ok though as I cut a piece off the end of the 4x8 sheet and made it 32"x48" which I will probably use for watching football during the day (with ambient formula). The larger piece will be for movies under dark conditions. My room isn't really large enough for much more than a 6 foot diagonal anyway and my projector is a BenQ PE5120 which I'm thinking shouldn't be used for much more than that.

I almost wish I had stayed with the foamcore board as it is definitely light weight enough to velco and IS smooth on both sides. oh well. I can always pick up a 3/16 4x8 sheet of it for $10. It actually appears to have less 'wave' in it than the MDF boards I looked at.

Charlie
post #268 of 514
In Biglyles Ambient mix he use UPW and deep base. What type? Flat,satin, semi gloss, high gloss? Im using the 14 part formula


1/2 cup deep base
1/2 cup UPW
post #269 of 514
both are interior flat

what type of PJ and how much light will your room have?
post #270 of 514
Thats for the reply Biglyle.I ordered the Panny AE900 . The HT room will be in my basement but i have a walkout basement with french doors and 2 windows. They are all on the oppisite side of my HT room so no direct sunlight will hit the screen just indirect light which really doesnt get too bright in the HT room. I also have recessed lighting on dimmers but i wanna be able to have the guys over for a football game without being in the dark. I have 6 recessed lights in the HT room the two by the screen i intend on not using but the other four i would like to at least have them half to 3/4 full brightness. The first 2 are 9 ft from where the screen will be and the other 2 are 16ft from the screen.All have 60 watts bulbs. I plan on buying a 5x10 sheet of Parkland Plastics to paint with your original 14 part ambient light formula. Thats for the reply Biglyle.
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