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Attn Newbies: You Cannot Record in Hi-Def Resolution on Current DVD Recorders - Page 13

post #361 of 585
4/1/08 at 8:48pm
Here's a Philips with 5.1 digital in which had the Gemstar EPG and an NTSC tuner so I think it had to have been destined for the US. I wonder why they would go to such lengths as to photograph a prototype and release this spec sheet yet never bring it to market? Seems like an awful waste of time:

http://www.dvdplusrw.org/video/leaflets/dvdr740_us.pdf
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post #362 of 585
4/1/08 at 9:26pm
Interesting. A very early model, probably full of bugs, spec sheet dated 12/2003. No HDD. Probably not released because in this era with the Panasonic, Pioneer and Toshiba models dominating the landscape, who would give Philips a second look.
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post #363 of 585
4/2/08 at 12:57am
It was out here - I briefly had one. Had no bugs that I know of, but I didn't care at all for the PQ.

Wish I'd have kept it now in hindsight, for the 5.1 and component input. Probably worth a lot. But it was my first DVD recorder, and I didn't know any better. Got it pretty cheap as a display model from the local Tweeter.
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post #364 of 585
4/2/08 at 7:13am
Cool unit, man how far we have come with DVDR's........NOT!
This unit has all the features people want: Component inputs, 5.1 audio, records both VCD and also audio CD's, has TV guide, IR blaster, DV in, 8hrs/disc!
Too bad Panasonic or Pioneer never made such a feature packed unit. If they did they would be going for a kings ransom that's for sure.
I agree Ramm, in hind site it would have been a cool little unit to keep, although like you I probably would have returned it if it had subpar PQ. After all PQ was the whole reason for me switching from VHS in the first place. Oh and the small discs too
If it weren't for copyright holders having there way one can only imagine how great a DVDR could be
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post #365 of 585
4/2/08 at 9:42am
I've owned some Philips and think they were quite nice. They had lots of features that set them apart at the time: Region free hackable, component video in, passive pass through (when turned off the inputs are routed to the output jacks, useful in that it frees up an input on your video switcher in some cases), TV guide EPG which worked interactively with the supplied IR blaster to change your cable box (even with some Tivo-like options thrown in), manual audio record level option instead of just the standard AGC compression circuit (which kills the dynamic range), PCM CD quality audio record option instead of just Dolby 2.0 (which is compressed like an MP3 file is), an 8 hr mode (it sucked visually) which as far as I know still kept the audio quite nice and getting 8 hr of audio on a disk that will play back on any DVD player (even ones that aren't MP3 compatible) might have had some value to some people back when MP3 DVD wasn't as standard as it is now, 2.5 hour speed that seemed about as good as 2 hour (great for a movie that runs just a little long without having to go to the crappy speeds). The unit's firmware also was upgradeable via the Gemstar EPG signal (no, not just the TV Guide part, the whole unit) and I once called them about a problem that the unit had (inability to switch between my city's primitive dual trunk A/B cable system), they said they'd work on it and a couple of weeks later they sent through a new firmware patch which had a cure! Wow.

In 2/2.5 hr mode I was quite content; the other speeds were so poor I never used them other than once when I was archiving old EP VHS tapes where it didn't much matter..

Jjef, none had DVI in. They had firewire/IEEE 1394/ "i-link" camcorder in only (it didn't work as an "out" also).
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post #366 of 585
4/2/08 at 11:15am
I saw the i-link and thought maybe that was the same as DV in, which many current DVDR's have. Other than that no current US DVDR even comes close as far as features.
Interesting about your note on PQ. The the reasons I got rid of my Philips 3575 was because that unit drops resolution on any speed above 2 hrs. I almost could have lived with a 2 1/2 hr full resolution, but really prefer about 3hrs on my Panny's. So many of my movies are about 2 1/2 hrs long, and I don't want to spend the extra for DD discs.
Interesting how Philips has now dropped the 8hr speed in favor of the 6hr. Maybe they got so many complaints about PQ. Panny does have 8hr but it does drop the fidelity of the sound. 6hr retains full sound quality.
Talk about poor PQ, one of the units I tested a few years ago (can't remember brand) actually had a 10hr speed! My god I remember it was so AWFUL it almost made me sick that someone would use that speed, and I'm sure some people did.
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post #367 of 585
4/2/08 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I saw the i-link and thought maybe that was the same as DV in, which many current DVDR's have. Other than that no current US DVDR even comes close as far as features.

To clarify they do have DV in, not DVI in, which is what you wrote in that post.

DV in = i-link = IEEE1394 = camcorder in = firewire:




DVI, digital visual interface, is the earlier form of HDMI (but didn't include digital audio or commands):



DVI and HDMI are heavily copy protected so video recording devices never sport such inputs, only outputs.
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post #368 of 585
4/2/08 at 11:54am
Oops I'll correct that. Typo on my part. I do know the difference, guess just my fingers didn't
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post #369 of 585
4/2/08 at 4:56pm
I happened to stroll through Best Buy today and saw the current Philips (something like 3454 model number, I dunno). It didn't have a single one of the cool features I mentioned (except maybe the 2.5 hr speed, I only looked at the outside of the box). Seems the world is moving backwards! It didn't have any tuner of any kind. [I think they are forced by law to either do that or give it NTSC and ATSC, none of which I want, give me clear QAM and component inputs g*d d*mn it.

It's kind of hilarious when you think about it that legally if they have any kind of tuner it must be ATSC, yet none of them record a widescreen image anamorphicly compressed. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the way the current units still do it? What idiocy.
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post #370 of 585
4/2/08 at 5:33pm
I don't believe DVDR's with ATSC tuners have a problem properly recording widescreen content or playing it back properly on a 16:9 display.
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post #371 of 585
4/2/08 at 9:32pm
Can an ATSC tuner equipped DVD recorder owner confirm this (regarding 16X9 internal tuner recordings)? Other posts say Panasonics will do it only with RAM DVDs (no thanks). Obviously I'd want one that can sense the wide screen flag, record it properly, and pass the flag along to the display. Others have said that some brands like Sony let you select it per recording, which is better than nothing I suppose.

Thanks ppl.
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post #372 of 585
4/3/08 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by squonk View Post

In an effort to possibly save some repetition in posts, and avoid confusion, this seems to be a question that pops up once a week or so.

No current DVD recorder, available in the American market at least, will record high definition content IN HIGH DEFINITION RESOLUTION. DVD recorders can only record in standard definition which is 480i. You cannot record in 480p, 720p, 1080i or 1080p.

You CAN record hi definition content from a sat box or STB, depending on the hookup, but at best it will be in 480i resolution. The recordings should still be very good, they just won't be in high definition. Your STB or source signal has to be able to transmit the hi-def content via component, S video or composite- -not all do. NOTE--If you have a Directv Hi def box (and this may apply to other STBs) you need to manually SET the Directv box to output at 480i OR YOU WILL NOT GET A SIGNAL WHEN YOU HOOK IT UP TO A DVD RECORDER! Until the HD format wars are resolved and we start seeing some HD-DVD players, HD-DVD recorders are still a ways off.

Even if you have a hi-def DVR like a Directivo, while the Directivo will store the high def signal to its hard drive, so you can watch in high definition from your Directivo or Dish hard drive, it is downconverted to 480i when outputted to a DVD recorder for archiving(and it does not even stay in the digital domain, as it has to be converted to analog, then back to digital).

The only current way to actually record in hi-def resolution, other than a hi-def STB hard drive, is via a D-VHS recorder.


AUDIO ADDENDUM: No current DVD recorders can record a Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS multichannel digital signal either. Recorders have digital OUTPUTS (usually optical, some coaxial), but only record in Dolby Digital 2.0 or uncompressed PCM digital stereo audio. No standalone DVD recorders have digital audio inputs or allow recording of a 5.1 signal at this time. PCM audio is uncompressed,unlike DD, and is far superior than DD 2.0 for sound quality, especially for music. Beware the cheap DVD recorder brands, as many only have mono tuners and won't even record in stereo.


Guys, I hope I am not posting something for the 1000th time in this thread.
But I have to ask…
The last time the OP was updated was two years ago. I don’t have time to wade through page after page of posts.
Is it still impossible to record material from a DVR to a DVD recorder as the OP indicated two years ago?
I would like to think technology has changed since 2006.

Thanks in advance!
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post #373 of 585
4/3/08 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by suffolk112000 View Post

Guys, I hope I am not posting something for the 1000th time in this thread.
But I have to ask…
The last time the OP was updated was two years ago. I don’t have time to wade through page after page of posts.
Is it still impossible to record material from a DVR to a DVD recorder as the OP indicated two years ago?
I would like to think technology has changed since 2006.

Thanks in advance!

It has. However, I don't think the Panasonic (AVCHD) and Toshiba (3xDVD) models that record HD to DVD are in the US, yet. Moreover, with HD DVD pretty much dead and buried (LG still supports the format.), I don't think models have much life left in them.

http://hometheater.about.com/od/dvdr...drecgfaq14.htm

Quote:


More High-Definition Recording on Standard DVDs...With a Catch

Panasonic and Toshiba both announced at the CEATEC 2007 exhibition, that they are incorporating new technology that allows the recording of high definition on standard DVDs. However, there are three caveats:

First, the formats used by Panasonic and Toshiba are incompatible with each other.

Second, the new technology is only being incorporated in Blu-ray and HD-DVD recorders that are available exclusively in the Japanese market so far. There is no official word if this technology will be incorporated into standard DVD recorders.

Three, the HD-recorded DVDs can only be played back on a compatible Blu-ray Disc or HD-DVD player - they cannot be played back on standard DVD players, in their present configuration.
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post #374 of 585
4/3/08 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Can an ATSC tuner equipped DVD recorder owner confirm this (regarding 16X9 internal tuner recordings)? Other posts say Panasonics will do it only with RAM DVDs (no thanks). Obviously I'd want one that can sense the wide screen flag, record it properly, and pass the flag along to the display. Others have said that some brands like Sony let you select it per recording, which is better than nothing I suppose.

Thanks ppl.

Yes I believe all DVDR's(Panny and Philips 3575 for sure) can record WS material to a standard DVD(from the tuner or line input), the problem is none set the flag. You will need a simple PC program to do that(I don't bother since I only have WS TV's). What happens on any disc other than RAM's w/Panasonics is when you play the disc back on a 4x3 TV the picture is vertically compressed. People look tall and skinny since the whole 16x9 frame is squeezed into the 4x3 frame. It works fine for 16x9 TV's but not so well for 4x3 sets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suffolk112000 View Post

Guys, I hope I am not posting something for the 1000th time in this thread.
But I have to ask
The last time the OP was updated was two years ago. I don't have time to wade through page after page of posts.
Is it still impossible to record material from a DVR to a DVD recorder as the OP indicated two years ago?
I would like to think technology has changed since 2006.

Thanks in advance!

Basically nothing has changed since 2006 in this regard. Many people are waiting for standalone BR recorders(that will actually record anything other than home videos). Some people use their PC to record HD to a standard DVD in a HD format not compatible with a standard DVD player and get 40-50 min. of HD material on the disc. You can decide yourself how useful that would be. To me it's too short.
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post #375 of 585
4/3/08 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by suffolk112000 View Post

Guys, I hope I am not posting something for the 1000th time in this thread.
But I have to ask…
The last time the OP was updated was two years ago. I don’t have time to wade through page after page of posts.
Is it still impossible to record material from a DVR to a DVD recorder as the OP indicated two years ago?
I would like to think technology has changed since 2006.

Thanks in advance!

There are no DVD recorders in the US market that will record a hi-def signal to removable media. All US available recorders take in a signal and down-convert it (if needed) to 480i before recording onto DVD. No US available recorder records 5.1 sound to removable media. All audio is converted to 2.0 before recording to DVD.

The #1 post of this thread is unlikely to ever be updated, the OP got himself banned from the forum 2 years ago.
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post #376 of 585
4/3/08 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

What happens on any disc other than RAM's w/Panasonics is when you play the disc back on a 4x3 TV the picture is vertically compressed. People look tall and skinny since the whole 16x9 frame is squeezed into the 4x3 frame. It works fine for 16x9 TV's but not so well for 4x3 sets.

You sure? That would mean anyone with a 4x3 TV would consider the product defective. None of those sets have any aspect ratio control to compensate. "My VCR never squeezed TV shows like this!" Stores would be getting returns left and right, I'd think. Keep in mind there are still billions of 4x3 sets out there and they still sell them even! (I'm all 16x9 also, so I wouldn't care either, but I still don't see how they could get away with this as you've described it.) Do you own an ATSC tuner DVD recorder yourself?
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post #377 of 585
4/3/08 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

You sure? That would mean anyone with a 4x3 TV would consider the product defective. None of them have any aspect ratio control to compensate. "My VCR never squeezed TV shows like this!" Stores would be getting returns left and right, I'd think. Keep in mind there are still billions of 4x3 sets out there and they still sell them even! (I'm all 16x9 also, so I wouldn't care either, but I still don't see how they could get away with this as you've described it.) Do you own an ATSC tuner DVD recorder yourself?

My Philips 3575's don't produce tall & skinny people... I can barely notice a very slightly squeezed aspect when viewing a 16:9 WS program on my 4:3 TV, as described in the para. "On a 3575 and a Pansonic combo unit,..." towards the bottom of this post.
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post #378 of 585
4/3/08 at 11:36am
Wajo, thanks, this makes more sense to me. From that post it seems the Philips, Pio, and Panasonic all have two different aspect ratio menu selections. The common one found on all DVD machines for playback, usually 16x9 WS/ 4x3 LTRBX/ 4x3 Pan and Scan, and a different one for the record mode with only two options:

"4:3 LB Rec" or

"16:9 Wide Rec".

Correct? Out of curiosity, can one make a mixed disc with some TV shows recorded 4:3 LB and others 16:9 Wide Rec or does the first recording placed on the disc lock any future recordings to that same mode even though the DVD recorder has been switched to the other mode?
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post #379 of 585
4/3/08 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Wajo, thanks, this makes more sense to me. From that post it seems the Philips, Pio, and Panasonic all have two different aspect ratio menu selections. The common one found on all DVD machines for playback, usually 16x9 WS/ 4x3 LTRBX/ 4x3 Pan and Scan, and a different one for the record mode with only two options:

"4:3 LB Rec" or

"16:9 Wide Rec".

Correct? Out of curiosity, can one make a mixed disc with some TV shows recorded 4:3 LB and others 16:9 Wide Rec or does the first recording placed on the disc lock any future recordings to that same mode even though the DVD recorder has been switched to the other mode?

On my 3575's, the aspect settings are for recording and for playback of commercial anamorphic WS movies.

There's also a 4:3 Pan & Scan setting.

I can mix titles with different rec modes and aspect settings in my real-time and high-speed dubs.
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post #380 of 585
4/3/08 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by allargon View Post

It has. However, I don't think the Panasonic (AVCHD) and Toshiba (3xDVD) models that record HD to DVD are in the US, yet. Moreover, with HD DVD pretty much dead and buried (LG still supports the format.), I don't think models have much life left in them.

http://hometheater.about.com/od/dvdr...drecgfaq14.htm

Actually, I am just looking to record SD material as well.
Is that possible to record from a DVR to a recordable DVD player?


Gosh... great responses guys. Thanks for all of your advice!
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post #381 of 585
4/3/08 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

You sure? That would mean anyone with a 4x3 TV would consider the product defective. None of those sets have any aspect ratio control to compensate. "My VCR never squeezed TV shows like this!" Stores would be getting returns left and right, I'd think. Keep in mind there are still billions of 4x3 sets out there and they still sell them even! (I'm all 16x9 also, so I wouldn't care either, but I still don't see how they could get away with this as you've described it.) Do you own an ATSC tuner DVD recorder yourself?

Yes I own several What I meant is if in the menu for the DVDR you have setup the recorder for 16x9 screen output the recorder will record the whole 16x9 if that's what the DVDR is feed(either by tuner or say another DVDR). If on the other hand you set your DVDR up for 4x3 output the recorder will only record in 4x3 normal mode. This mode will look fine on a 4x3 TV, but if you play this disc on a 16x9 TV you will be missing the sides. If you "stretch 4x3 to fill 16x9 screen" it will fill the screen, but people will be all fat.
Due to this even if I now had a 4x3 TV I would probably set my DVDR for 16x9 recording if I was planning on getting a 16x9 TV in the near future.
Once the DVD has been recorded missing the sides you can never get them back. All you have is a 4x3 recording. Does this make more sense?
I would think the reason people don't return their DVDR's is because they have set the output for 4x3, but are missing recording the sides if they are recording a 16x9 program.
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post #382 of 585
4/3/08 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by suffolk112000 View Post

Actually, I am just looking to record SD material as well.
Is that possible to record from a DVR to a recordable DVD player?

No problem using S or composite output of your DVR. Note some(not many) programs be CP'd and would not copy without a external filter of some type.
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post #383 of 585
4/3/08 at 1:20pm
Jjef, got it . Thanks. Too bad WS flags don't get recorded properly though, if they did then one could record anamorphically all the time and 4x3 TV playback would be accommodated as well since the machine would know when to unsqueeze and present LTRBX or P&S if one had selected that in the playback options menu. Broadcasts do have the flag don't they?
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post #384 of 585
4/3/08 at 2:24pm
I think they must, I know I don't do anything special to my TV, and when a program is in WS the screen is full side to side, and when it's 4x3 it has black bars on the side. Actually I don't really profess to know all the ins and outs of the whole flag issue. I just know some people change the flag with a simple computer program. I really only use WS TV's now so it really doesn't bother me but it sure would have been nice if DVDR mfg's had straightened the whole thing out a long time ago. I believe Toshiba had players that would set the flag and that was years ago. I don't believe the current Toshiba's do though. I really don't know what's the big deal getting it set by the DVDR's themselves. And why do just RAM's get it set on Panny's, why not R or RW's
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post #385 of 585
4/3/08 at 4:32pm
Ugh, I just saw the new Panny DMREZ28 and 48 at BB. No Domino 5 chip yet so we have to wait yet another generation.
Every thing seemed identical except it mentioned it can play HD-JPEG pics I presume from the USB (no mention if it was 2.0) or the SDHC card reader. Warning: When I last looked into this a few years ago because some HD-JPEG machines were showing up (Samsung, Toshiba IIRC ) it was total BS for most of them. Sure it could read the file but then it would interpolate the image to low quality 640x480 (VGA or so) and then re-interpolate it up to 1080i to travel down the HDMI wire to your HD display. ARGH!!! Can't they get anything right? Roku made the real deal machines (sans DVD section) that could do this and once you've seen true HD still pics on a HD display there's no going back to SD.

P.S. The Panny's still lie and say on them, "Record one program while you watch another". The clear implication is that you can watch a live TV broadcast (in *cough* 480i SD) while the machine records a different one. With only one tuner that isn't going to work now is it. I assume they mean that with a pricey RAM disk you can "chase play" as they used to call it, or record while watching a different section with a pre-recorded show; it isn't live. 99% of the public is being duped.
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post #386 of 585
4/3/08 at 5:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Jjef, got it . Thanks. Too bad WS flags don't get recorded properly though, if they did then one could record anamorphically all the time and 4x3 TV playback would be accommodated as well since the machine would know when to unsqueeze and present LTRBX or P&S if one had selected that in the playback options menu. Broadcasts do have the flag don't they?

There are some DVD recorders that will record the WS flag but they won't set it. I have 2 Pioneer DVD recorders that both recognize and record the WS flag when present on the source material.

I have two sources of "WS-flagged" widescreen programs.
1. My DV camcorder has a setting for "widescreen" that actually outputs anamorphic video with the WS flag included.
2. For recording from HD widescreen programs stored on my HD DirecTiVo, I connect the video using S-video and audio using L+R analog stereo cables. I add a converter box in series with the S-video connection. That box, Video Filter, adds the WS flag/signal into the VBI portion of the video signal.

From either of those two sources, and from edited WS DV movies from my Mac computer, I get excellent recordings of widescreen programs with the WS flag that enables DVD players to letterbox or pan and scan widescreen shows just like you would with an "Enhanced for Widescreen" commercial DVD.

Again, both of my older Pioneer DVD recorders (210 and 520H models) record this way fine. According to the user manuals, the newer Pioneers also recognize and record the WS flag.

Some Sony and Toshiba recorders actually allow the user to specify insertion of the WS flag while recording. I have not owned either of these, so I can't say which models.

The video recordings look excellent, mainly because the source is very clean video.
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post #387 of 585
4/4/08 at 2:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

No problem using S or composite output of your DVR. Note some(not many) programs be CP'd and would not copy without a external filter of some type.

THank you... !
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post #388 of 585
4/4/08 at 4:23pm
as far as i can tell, it appears that the new tosh dr-410 dvdr gives the options in the record menu to record in either 16x9 or 4x3. which is what we want for proper dvd appearance on both widescreen and fullscreen tvs.
there is an entire thread on the 410.
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post #389 of 585
4/16/08 at 10:23pm
Can the Firewire output from a HD STB be easily converted to a DV signal that can be accepted by a DVD recorder, in order to record an anamorphic WS image? I realize it will not be HD, but at least full screen and not wasting pixels recording black bars.

I understand that you can record Firewire video to a computer. And I see Firewire PC cards costing about $30. And that you can save & edit in the DV format. So converting must be relatively easy to do. But how about a stand alone converter?

I've looked and have not found, but does such a converter already exist in the Mac computer world?
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post #390 of 585
10/22/08 at 9:23pm
Ok, this post might run a little long because I want to explain, in detail, what I am trying to do. I have read a few post in this thread and I understand that you still can't record in HD, but there are so many pages, it would take a long time to try to find one that specifically addressed my situation. I am not a novice, but I am not advanced either. I don't understand a lot of the really technical jargon (bit rates, pulldown converting, etc) So, if you are patient and willing to help me out, please read on...

I have two DVD Recorders (in different rooms). They are both Panasonic (DMR-EA18 and DMR-ES25). The ES-25 is hooked up to a Sharp 37D90U and a DirecTV HD receiver, and the EA18 is hooked up to a Sony Bravia KDL-32L4000 and an Insight HD cable box. Neither DVD Recorder has an HDMI or component input.

I have recorded shows that were in HD on the ES25 (I know the recordings aren't really HD), and when played back on either TV, the picture fills up the screen as if it were HD and looks pretty good. That's what I want. However, on the EA18 the same kind of recording does not fill up the screen and doesn't look nearly as good. I have tried experimenting with the settings on both the TV and the cable box to no avail. The recorders are in the same family and discs started on one machine can be finished on the other. They have basically the same features.

So, I am assuming that the problem is the source. The HD picture from my cable box directly to the Sony TV via an HDMI cable looks great, so I know it outputs the HD signal fine. The problem I guess comes in when you use AV cables or an S-Video cable to output to the DVD Recorder. However, why is that not a problem with the other setup (the ES25, DirecTV, Sharp)? And is there any way that I will be able to make recordings that resemble the HD picture, albeit in SD, like the other setup can? Thanks in advance
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