Attn Newbies: You Cannot Record in Hi-Def Resolution on Current DVD Recorders - Page 17

I have read this thread on the weekend but there is one thing i am not sure on.

is a

NTSC DVD or SD analog output 480i?

and

PAL DVD or SD analog output 576i?

My set top box only outputs 576i, 576p, 720p and 1080i

So with all this talk of maximum SD resolution being 480i i am wondering if this for NTSC DVD's/systems and because i am in a PAL region i have got 576i instead and this will be ok to make a PAL DVD from?

Yeah, when they talk about 480i as the limit, they mean for NTSC regions. Since the majority of people who visit this forum for the first time are in North America (US and Canuckistan), and wouldn't know PAL from a hole in the ground, it's generally best to just say the 480i limit.

If you're in a PAL region, you can go by the 576i limit.

Ok great thanks. All i need to remember is that 480i is equivalent to 576i.

Not sure how to ask this.. I am talking to an Manufacture in Asia about making an DVD Recorder that has HD Inputs and Outputs (at least Component)with the ability to Record in 720p and 480p using DVD Media.. Maybe an internal Hard Drive.. I would like to have such a Device.. They asked me how many Units I could sell.. I am looking some feedback; any and all.. It there is a large market for such a device what features will it need, taking into consideration that I am not looking to make such a Device too expensive..
Please feel free to email me at wg_rebel@ipass.net or here..
Tnx, W.G.

Although theoretically possible, I suspect there are legal and/or licensing regulations which would preclude any major vendor from releasing such a product. It has nothing to do with "expense" or "demand".

Let's say for example there is an AACS regulation that to receive licensing one must promise to not include analog HD inputs (or outputs even, by 2013, if I understand their current stance correctly). One could possibly make such a device which ignors that mandate, in theory, but then for it to properly play future release movies, it would have to break their encryption and keys in an illegal and non-AACS sanctioned method. This would then open up the possibility of being sued for violation of the DCMA in the USA:

"The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is a United States copyright law that implements two 1996 treaties of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or services intended to circumvent measures (commonly known as digital rights management or DRM) that control access to copyrighted works. It also criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, whether or not there is actual infringement of copyright itself." -wikipedia

I'm no lawyer, but that's my understanding of why such devices don't exist or perhaps I should say hardly exist. Small companies may possibly fly under the radar, but major vendors like Panasonic, Sony, LG, Pioneer, etc dont want to take the risk. It has nothing to do with "There's no market for them." There is.

As long as its 220volts capable and fairly good quality i would buy one as long as its not gonna cost $1000's. Also would prefer both PAL/NTSC capability so what is it 576p instead of 480p for PAL? Basically you woul want to make it 'world wide compatible'

While we are at it, lets make it region free too!

Well for me region free would not really matter because i woul mainly use it for recording and not playback. Theres plenty of cheap region free DVD players for that.

You can record in HD and 5.1 sound....but your recorder must be hooked to an air antenna and receive those signals through the air.

^On stand alone DVD recorders, the topic of this thread? False.

Hey All.....read through the last few pages or so. I have my directv HD DVR connected to a DVD Recorder with S-Video and the red/white audio. (only option). Obviously my video is limited and audio is of coarse, 2 channel. I dont want to get too technical with using a computer and would like to know if there are stand alone recorders that will allow better video and audio results? It is sounding like HDMI input is not available, but are there units that provide component input and/or digital audio input ?

Assuming you live in the US, I don't think you have any answers that fit your exact stated needs.

I record HD in two different ways which might interest you though:

I record from my cable box DVR through its firewire out [IEEE 1394] to D-VHS, a now defunct format and the tapes are hard to find. I use mostly S-VHS tapes I modify with a drill to fool the machine into thinking they are D-VHS tapes, which are a lot more money, but both are hard to find these days. I mostly record over older tapes. [In theory you could find a used one but I would recommend you bite the bullet and use a computer, as I mention below.]

I also use a computer to record HD component video sources, complete with optical digital 5.1 Dolby sound, via a Hauppauge HDPVR which converts the video to a USB stream that the computer can then record, store, and later burn to Bluray disc or a nearly identical version on more affordable DVD R blanks called AVCHD discs.

M. Zillch..... Probably one of the most straight forward responses ive seen ! Lol thanks. I will have to check/research that unit you mentioned. But just to ask.... You can go from the STB with component and optical or coaxial to that unit, and then out of the unit with USB to PC? Could you detail that a little more for me.... Basically your set up your using and program on pc you use? Sorry to be amatuer about it, but the whole HTPC concept is new to me and a tried and true setup will get me pointed in the right direction. Ive actually built a few desktops, but other than networking ITunes, have never linked up to the HT. Thanks Again!

I also use the Hauppauge HDPVR 1212, but in my case I use a Mac Mini with HDCapture software to control it instead of the Windoze software that comes with it (it connects through USB 2.0).

It has component video input that will accept analog HD. It has red/white analog audio input or optical digital audio input. I use it with my DirecTV H22-100 DVR to digitize video with 5.1 audio (when available). The DirecTV will output both to HDMI to my HDTV and to the component video for the Hauppauge.

It's output is H.264 MPEG-4 in High profile with CABAC and other advanced settings in an m2ts wrapper. The HDCapture software comes with a conversion utility to convert it to a mp4 container with video and audio pass thru and no transcoding, so it is reasonably quick.

This output is still too advanced for my use on my AppleTV so I use a utility like HandBrake to transcode it for use there.

As MZillch mentioned, the raw output can be burned to a BluRay or DVD-DL in BluRay format and both are playable in BluRay players full HD/AC3-5.1. I rarely to this, as I am set up to watch content on my AppleTV, which had been modified with the Firecore patch to allow networking.

There are some forums here on avsforum for the device with Windoze and Mac:

Hauppauge HDPVR-1212 Owner's Thread

HDPVR Support on the Mac

I am starting to go through my old VHS collection and dispose of it. I have quite a few S-VHS tapes (mostly 120, but some longer) that I would like to sell.

Interested?

^ Thanks but no thanks. I have enough tape to last me for the life of my deck, I think.

I try to use tapes as little as possible anyways, since hard drives are the way to go, long term, at least until solid state memory replaces that.

Another way to improve the picture quality of wide screen programs(assuming your STB letterboxes everything out of it's S-video/composite outputs) is to purchase a component-to-S-video converter. It takes the WS component and converts it to WS S-video. If you only record 4:3 or your STB/DVR already outputs WS over composite/S-video then you'll gain nothing but such a converter. Such converters are talked about in this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=828063
Of course using a PC and HD component and burning to BD or AVCHD(HD on DVD but non DVD standard) will yield even better results(real HD).

Its getting hard to find devices such as STB and TV's with s-video now, but they still load them with composite connections.

The new 2012 Plasma TVs I'm looking at have only a single analog input -- a shared component/composite connection. HDMI rules the roost.

"Time to throw out your old VCRs, DVD players, LD players, camcorders, nanny cams, front doorbell cam, and primitive game consoles like Wii, without HDMI folks. What's that? Well, OK, we'll still give you one combined analog in just in case you buy our optional ipod dock, the only device we can conceive of one might still use with a TV in 2012." - Panasonic

No thanks. Although it does not matter in the long run compared to the polution the factories pump out to make this stuff, i dont think we should be adding to land fill unnecessarily. If possible try and find another home for your unwanted electronics other than the bin. No i am not a greeny, but i do like old things and want to be able to find them.

At the very least, instead of binning them get rid of them on ebay or somewhere where someone will apprieciate them. LD and VHS have been gone for a while now but i am actually thinking of buying some from the used market. Might be junk to you but someone else could value them.

^ Just to be sure, I think you mean: "No thanks, Panasonic."


What you have just quoted from my post I never actually said. I was mocking Panasonic's perspective, not my own.

^^^ That's now I took it, as you were being sarcastic
I'm going to have a hard time replacing my 46" HDTV when it's time. Being a '08?? model it has all the inputs: 4 HDMI, 2 Components, 3 composite(including 2 with S-video) and of course RF.
Looking at larger TVs it seems 2-4 HDMIs are the norm and one component/composite input
Currently I use EVERY input on my TV including a 4 in 1 out composite switcher and 4 in 1 out HDMI switcher, I'll really miss the inputs on my TV when the times comes(I'd really like a 52-54" but have to decide if I want to lose all the features(including the nice digital TVGOS) on my current Sony)

I guess I'm the exception. My plasma and AVR are almost 4 yr old and with the exception of the Wii, everything I have in the "rack" is attached via HDMI.

I think this thread needs to be unstuck. It makes no sense. DVD has never provided HD resolution. hDVD didn't even gain any popularity.

We have Blu-ray writers for computers now and can burn discs in high resolution all day long. Why are we talking about DVD and HD in the same context?

I agree. This thread has not merited sticky status for a long time now.

This thread, started in late 2005, predates the official release of BR in 2006. It was started to answer the repeatedly asked question about whether the existing market of DVD recorders (home units, some with combo-VHS; video/audio in, pop in a blank DVD, push RECORD) would be updated and released to work with the new HD technology; and of course the answer at that time was NO.


The question remains relevant today, if you just update its terminology to replace the term "DVD Recorders" with "home high-definition disc recorders."

There continues to be no home BR Recorder, in the sense that there was a DVD Recorder back in 2005: that is, a box that connects to component and/or HDMI video IN (and audio IN), pop in a blank BR disk and push one button to record.

The market is just not there... Downloading and now streaming have moved into the "disc-less" stage. If you have not noticed, the major motion picture distributors have been facing a financial crisis over the loss of disc revenues, which have not been made up by the gain in new technological distribution revenues.

So, even after all these years: "Attn Newbies: You Cannot Record in Hi-Def Resolution on any form of 'one-button' home disc Recorders."

AND, yes, burning a BR disc on your computer can be an "all day long" process (digitize, author, transcode, burn)... Well, maybe not that long, but certainly not push one button and burn in real time!

US people (with electricity) who own one or more TV? I'd say maybe 90%.

Same group that owned and used VCRs back before HD came along? I'd say around 80%.

People who currently own a TV and have either their sat box, cable box, or an OTA tuner connected to a computer of any kind, such that they can record live TV shows with some sort of timer mechanism so they can record even when not present to press the record button, to archive either to a hard drive or an optical disk of some kind as a one step, real time process, today? I'd say less than 3%, maybe even less than 1%.

People who make it a double length process, taking two hours to record a movie to a DVR of some sort, then at a later time transfer the recording to a computer for archiving purposes, taking up another two hours of their life that they can't be watching their DVRs since they don't have simultaneous, dual, matrixed, outputs [one plays TV of your choice, the other the TV show you are archiving to your computer], maybe 5% of people? Connecting live TV to one's computer is not "mainstream".

I disagree that there would be no "market" for a BR or DVD disc [AVCHD] HD recorder which acts in an analogous fashion to how VCRs recorded in your absence, straight to an archivable medium, in realtime. The vast majority of US people don't even have their TVs connected to their computers, yet being able to archive easily and cheaply would interest them. Think of how many grandmas are out there who buy these "digital picture frames", as an example, to see digital images because using a computer screen to view family images just isn't their thing/speed.

I would also agree, it's time has passed. It's not as if the information in the thread will be lost, it will still be available for anyone searching and since AVS doesn't seem to archive anymore(or hasn't for many years) anyone would be able to revive the thread by a simple post and checking the old thread box.

Yes, its time has passed. As MichaelLAX stated, the thread was originated to address the question framed in its title because people were tired of it being asked multiple times per week -- in that time period of 7 yr ago. It no longer contains information of enduring value, if it ever did, and is not a hotbed of discussion; aside from the recent spate of 30 posts, it had laid dormant for nearly a year. Unstick it and let it stand (or fade) on its own.