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It's November where's my Dragonfly?? - Page 3  

post #61 of 179
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich
Sex, food, good cigars, good beverages, football

The first 4 sound like Vegas this weekend......

-M
post #62 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich
Sex, food, good cigars, good beverages, football
Now you're talking my kind of language. :D
post #63 of 179
i'm not in vegas this weekend, BUT there is definately going to be lots of football in the sports books.
post #64 of 179
Did anyone visit the Algolith booth at CES? If so, what did you see and what information did you gather about the long awaited, anticipated Dragonfly. Did they happen to have a working one there, if so how did it look? Thanks Greg
post #65 of 179
I am curious what the following statement on the Algolith site means exactly -

"Sold Out! The Pre-Order deposit on the up coming The Dragonfly with HQV is not available anymore since the 2 productions batches have all been allocated!"

Does this mean they won't be producing any beyond the pre-order quantities in the foreseeable future?
post #66 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon Smith
I am curious what the following statement on the Algolith site means exactly -

"Sold Out! The Pre-Order deposit on the up coming The Dragonfly with HQV is not available anymore since the 2 productions batches have all been allocated!"

Does this mean they won't be producing any beyond the pre-order quantities in the foreseeable future?

It probably means this:

"The Pre-Order deposit on the up coming The Dragonfly with HQV is not available anymore"
post #67 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by HQV
Maybe it's just me but the fact that fundamental changes CAN be made to a chip a year after its inception is pretty darn cool.
I would have to second that. I work for a major chip company and all to often in the industry I see someone tape out a chip with HW bugs and then try to fix it in SW. My hat is off to SO if they did another spin on the chip in a year.
post #68 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjchan
It probably means this:

"The Pre-Order deposit on the up coming The Dragonfly with HQV is not available anymore"
You think so Einstein?
post #69 of 179
My main issue with Algolith is that there is no update on their website since October. They are working on one of the hottest items in the industry and no updates!

There are also no posts from them here... It's sure nice to know what is going on from others here, however IMHO it would look much better if Algolith would just update us directly. No need to get into Disclosure details - just an update on what to expect next would be nice.

Just as in many other industries, delays are inevitable and communication is key. The total silence is definitely not a good marketing strategy.

I miss Michael Poirier and his updates!
post #70 of 179
Thread Starter 
Bounce......

It's Mid February, where's my Dragonfly? Actually, I cancelled my order a few days ago. The delay has become quite the bad joke. This company has no idea what it's doing. My VP30 is expected via Fedex tomorrow which got me thinking about this thread.
post #71 of 179
zack-man,

They are still working on it. I'm getting some updates from them via email. Very nice guys.

I know they pay very serious attention to the forums. It's quite likely they'll show up on the forum prior to release (or simultaneously).

As almost no one else released HQV solutions either, so far (NEC being the exception, but still having various issues) - I wouldn't necessarily jump to conclusions regarding Algolith. FYI, almost no one makes release dates anymore. Most scaler companies are late with product releases from a few months to...years in some cases. The obvious answer is simply not give out any release dates and avoid these blaring mistakes. It's very hard to give an exact release date on such a product given the complexities involved.
post #72 of 179
Ofer, I agree with your comments, but wht makes this a different situation is that they took a deposit. If your "obvious answer" is to not give out a release date then a company certainly shouldn't require funds. Since a DF purchased through AVS required a deposit while a Vantage HD purchased through AVS did not I am assuming the money went to Algolith.
post #73 of 179
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oferlaor
zack-man,

They are still working on it. I'm getting some updates from them via email. Very nice guys.

I know they pay very serious attention to the forums. It's quite likely they'll show up on the forum prior to release (or simultaneously).

As almost no one else released HQV solutions either, so far (NEC being the exception, but still having various issues) - I wouldn't necessarily jump to conclusions regarding Algolith. FYI, almost no one makes release dates anymore. Most scaler companies are late with product releases from a few months to...years in some cases. The obvious answer is simply not give out any release dates and avoid these blaring mistakes. It's very hard to give an exact release date on such a product given the complexities involved.
I thought of this soon after my post. I understand these issues might very well be beyond their control. It was the $150 that I had to give that upset me regarding this product release. It's in poor taste (business sense) and clearly the company should have returned the deposits. I cancelled for obvious reasons but the main reason was due to a conversation that I had with one of their reps at CES. When I asked when and why, he never gave me a straight answer. They had my deposit yet couldn't (wouldn't) tell me when I might receive the product or why I hadn't up to this point. I just don't like nor want to be involved in a business situation such as this.
post #74 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by wensteph
Ofer, I agree with your comments, but wht makes this a different situation is that they took a deposit. If your "obvious answer" is to not give out a release date then a company certainly shouldn't require funds. Since a DF purchased through AVS required a deposit while a Vantage HD purchased through AVS did not I am assuming the money went to Algolith.
No one put a gun to your head and made you give them the money though, and if you don't like it you can simply ask for the money back.
post #75 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled
No one put a gun to your head and made you give them the money though, and if you don't like it you can simply ask for the money back.
Don't you have a sheep to shear or something more beneficial to do than make this post?

I paid the required deposit because I wanted to buy the product. I have not asked for a refund because I wish to still buy the product. I don't think that Algolith is due plaudits for this episode and I would suggest that if you don't like posts from people disappointed in the extended delay of a product with absolutely no, nada, none, zip official explanation as to the delay, then don't click on a thread whose title is quite descriptive as to its subject.
post #76 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by wensteph
Don't you have a sheep to shear or something more beneficial to do than make this post?
Oh ho ho... :rolleyes:

Quote:
I paid the required deposit because I wanted to buy the product. I have not asked for a refund because I wish to still buy the product. I don't think that Algolith is due plaudits for this episode and I would suggest that if you don't like posts from people disappointed in the extended delay of a product with absolutely no, nada, none, zip official explanation as to the delay, then don't click on a thread whose title is quite descriptive as to its subject.
Your entitled to be upset, but ultimately you have three courses of action; you could cancel and get another processor instead (the NEC for example), you could patiently wait, or you could drive over to Canada to see the folks at Algolith, give them a piece of your mind, and then proceed to do one of the first two.

It's all very well and good to use internet forums as a soapbox on which to let off some steam, but it's not like doing so is going to change the world for the better. Sometimes you just have to accept that the world is sub-ideal and get on with living.
post #77 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled
It's all very well and good to use internet forums as a soapbox on which to let off some steam...
The difference in using an internet forum as a soapbox is that in this case the dealer conducts his business on this forum; actually this forum is his business.
post #78 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by wensteph
The difference in using an internet forum as a soapbox is that in this case the dealer conducts his business on this forum; actually this forum is his business.
Algolith doesn't post here much, though. If you want to get something through to them an email would be a more effective approach.
post #79 of 179
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled
Algolith doesn't post here much, though. If you want to get something through to them an email would be a more effective approach.
Having tried to speak to them in person and not getting anywhere, I doubt an email would do any more than to let them know I cancelled my order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled
It's all very well and good to use internet forums as a soapbox on which to let off some steam, but it's not like doing so is going to change the world for the better. Sometimes you just have to accept that the world is sub-ideal and get on with living.
You couldn't be more wrong. In a past forum posting occasion I was not only contacted via a phone call from the president of a very large company (I will not mention the name here) but I was also sent a replacement product of significantly higher value (very, very higher value) for my trouble. I highly doubt a small underfunded company from Canada would do anything of the sort nor do I expect anything, however human beings work in these firms who can relate to the unacceptable nature of a 1 year plus deposit. They also look at these posts, and perhaps to all of your benefit (as I am no longer buying one) they will provide some way overdue information.

-M
post #80 of 179
I followed the news on the Dragonfly since the beginning, and am still patiently waiting in anticipation for the perfect released product.
When this scaler is released, I shall buy it after the initial teething troubles have been sorted out.
Until then, I'll enjoy my 'old' equipment to it's fullest. After all, I bought it.
post #81 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled
Algolith doesn't post here much, though. If you want to get something through to them an email would be a more effective approach.

Aarrggh! :confused: I said I'm content to wait on the product. The silver lining in this is that I will probably have the chance to complete the pruchase on the DF or bail (and lose my deposit because that would be part of the original purchase agreement) and then go with the Vantage, or CII, or Radiance becasue they will all hit the market about the same time and my purchase will be a more informed one than is the case when we are earliest adopters.

I don't grind my teeth over this, Carled. I thought Ofer's comment fell short in this instance because the mfr that is the subject of this thread required money up front. They will pay some level of PR price for that and rightfully so.
post #82 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by wensteph
They will pay some level of PR price for that and rightfully so.
Indeed.
post #83 of 179
I talk to them about twice a week and I am in constant e-mail communications with them.

Recently a problem has arisen with HDMI. Remember a processor is not an end user of the HDMI encrypted signal. It is a modifier and relayer. So when a source device sends out an HDMI encrypted signal, it asks "Are you a complying display device?"if it doesn't get the right answer", the HDMI shuts down. One of the answers can be, Hell no. I am a complying relayer, I am not a complying display device. At that point the source is supposed to say OK and then send a message through the relayer asking the display device connected to the relayer whether the display device is in compliance. Well campers, not all sources do what they are supposed to do. Several do not send the second question. Until they do, there will be problems. There are solutions. For example, the processor can be programmed to lie to the source and say that it is a complying display device and then in essence becoming the source and it asking the real display device whether it is in compliance before relaying the signal. All this stuff takes time to figure out why something doesn't work, trying to get the source manufacturer to do what it should have done (you think somebody like DTV cares given the miniscule number of hooks ups involving HDMI and processors), and engineering a processor box solution that will still be in compliance with the HDMI license. silly for a processor manufacturer to think source manufacturers are in full compliance with their HDMI licenses (by enabling the double question sequence when the first answer is Hell no I am not a display just a relayer). Could such a problem even have been envisioned given that some sources do comply?
post #84 of 179
They can implement a special button press sequence / RS232 command to enable that "lie to the source" mode. They can suck the DDC info from the display and pretend to be a sink instead of a repeater. I was reading in the DVD forum that a Samsung player has a special sequence to disable HDCP. If Algolith implements the workaround, I promise I won't pass the sequence around in public :)

BTW, the NEC TheaterSync's HDCP implementation is far from robust.
post #85 of 179
Yeh. I know there is a relatively simple solution. but stuff gets into the field, a problem crops up with a user (who is using a source that is not sending the second code) it takes bunch to track down what is happening because the manufacturer doesn't have the source, etc etc. It burns lots of time.
post #86 of 179
Yeah, this HDCP stuff is turning out to be rocket science. To give you an example, the TheaterSync has problem with HD-Tivo 480i over HDMI -> TheaterSync -> Ruby and *only* at 480i. It works fine with Mits LT2020 LCD at any input rez and works fine with the Ruby at 720p/1080i into it. It'll probably take NEC a year to go through all the levels of management approvals to get a fix out.
post #87 of 179
Indeed all those designing Video Processors, receivers, switchers, displays et al are burning (wasting) their talents writing and fixing code trying to make this [expletive] copy protection stuff work

Outrageous waste of time: tens of thousands of man hours and millions in hardware and licensing expenses and the stuff still does not work :mad:
post #88 of 179
markrubin,

even when it does work, it takes forever to sync. I have an HDCP HDTV device that takes 20 seconds to show a picture because of HDCP. It will only work with HDCP on, and every time you switch to it, it will resync the HDCP protocol to make sure that the display is compliant. The scalers then have to go through the procedure that mark haflich described.

In the meantime, I get the pleasure of watching HDCP noise :(
post #89 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by oferlaor
markrubin,

even when it does work, it takes forever to sync. I have an HDCP HDTV device that takes 20 seconds to show a picture because of HDCP. It will only work with HDCP on, and every time you switch to it, it will resync the HDCP protocol to make sure that the display is compliant. The scalers then have to go through the procedure that mark haflich described.

In the meantime, I get the pleasure of watching HDCP noise :(
Hopefully PixelMagic will release their planned HD-SDI mod kit soon.
post #90 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by oferlaor
markrubin,

even when it does work, it takes forever to sync. I have an HDCP HDTV device that takes 20 seconds to show a picture because of HDCP. It will only work with HDCP on, and every time you switch to it, it will resync the HDCP protocol to make sure that the display is compliant. The scalers then have to go through the procedure that mark haflich described.

In the meantime, I get the pleasure of watching HDCP noise :(

Make sure you run articles on that in your HT magazine whenever possible :)

Though I doubt that will happen because your magazine like any other mag is largely dependent on advertising revenues, and you can't really pi$$ off the paying advertisers.

Kai
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