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It's official. I see a rainbow-like effect on every plasma. - Page 7

post #181 of 838
5/12/06 at 10:25am
Thread Starter 
Well, like many people this week, I've been all about E3 and just this morning I came across a video of Rainbow Six being filmed off a plasma. Now, I know many of you will continue to say that I'm crazy, seeing things, need my eyes fixed, etc., but I think this video shows some of the things that dalandis and I are complaining about.

If you have the time, download this video -- http://www.gametrailers.com/player.p...e=mov&id=10717

About midway through the video, once the SWAT team gets inside the Casino, you see them taking cover and running past big white flourescent lights in the background. If you look closely as the camera pans past those big lights from left and right, you can see yellow blurring or trailing. It also happens on many other scenes but it's a bit more subtle. Also, if you freeze frame some of these scenes you can clearly make out a yellow outling around the player models and other objects onscreen. If I could, I would take stills and post them here, but i have no idea how to do something like that. If someone here sees what I'm talking about, and could take some screen caps of the effect as it's happening, that would be awesome.

P.S. - The more I watch this video, the more clearly I see this. How anyone with a discerning eye couldn't see what I'm talking about in this video, is absolutely beyond me.
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post #182 of 838
5/12/06 at 10:28am
Yes, you must not be worthy of plasma.
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post #183 of 838
5/12/06 at 10:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

Yes, you must not be worthy of plasma.


Huh? Are you an alumn of the Artwood School of *******s, too?
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post #184 of 838
5/12/06 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda1 View Post

Huh? Are you an alumn of the Artwood School of *******s, too?

If you only knew the power of.......
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post #185 of 838
5/12/06 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

I acknowledge that some people see things that I do not see.

Agreed Here's the thing. It's one thing to acknowledge an artifact not seen by all, but seen by enough to believe it's real, whether or not a given person sees it. DLP color wheel artifacts fall into that category.

But, this plasma artifact would appear to be seen by about 3 people on this board out of how many thousands who would happily respond that they saw an artifact if they indeed did see it. If those three people really did see this artifact which has been described as "It's very distracting and makes watching TV painful", these three are truly cursed. But then I have to ask if an artifact is so bad as to make watching TV painful, how in the world can there not be so many others that also see it? Something just doesn't seem to make common sense here.

dalandis said, "Casablanca became my acid test... seeing the rainbow effects are incredibly easy watching the first 5 minutes of that film". I've watched this movie many times on a Pioneer and Fujitsu plasma and have seen a touch of any color artifact. How can that possibly be if this artifact is so obvious, even if to only 3 people?

For the sake of argument, let's say the artifact is real and is seen by 0.00004% of HD viewers. All I can say is thank goodness for defective eyes or ignorance that I don't see it. Plasma technology wouldn't be selling as well as it is if a significant number of people saw this artifact.
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post #186 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:06am
Thread Starter 
Go to the scene where SWAT kicks open the door to that bar that has white lights above and below. As the camera pans, you can see yellow and blueish color trails around those white lights. Focus on any other similar scene and you will pick up on what I'm seeing.

If I had a capture card, this argument would be over. It's impossible not to see in the stills.
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post #187 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:10am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysam View Post

Agreed Here's the thing. It's one thing to acknowledge an artifact not seen by all, but seen by enough to believe it's real, whether or not a given person sees it. DLP color wheel artifacts fall into that category.

But, this plasma artifact would appear to be seen by about 3 people on this board out of how many thousands who would happily respond that they saw an artifact if they indeed did see it. If those three people really did see this artifact which has been described as "It's very distracting and makes watching TV painful", these three are truly cursed. But then I have to ask if an artifact is so bad as to make watching TV painful, how in the world can there not be so many others that also see it? Something just doesn't seem to make common sense here.

dalandis said, "Casablanca became my acid test... seeing the rainbow effects are incredibly easy watching the first 5 minutes of that film". I've watched this movie many times on a Pioneer and Fujitsu plasma and have seen a touch of any color artifact. How can that possibly be if this artifact is so obvious, even if to only 3 people?

For the sake of argument, let's say the artifact is real and is seen by 0.00004% of HD viewers. All I can say is thank goodness for defective eyes or ignorance that I don't see it. Plasma technology wouldn't be selling as well as it is if a significant number of people saw this artifact.


This logic doesn't wash. DLP sells like hotcakes and it's a known fact that some people are sensitive to rainbows. There's no conspiracy going on here. You people need to just get over the fact that some people have better eyes than others.
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post #188 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:11am
Can you see rainbows if you stand on your head?
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post #189 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Chris Wiggles: let's try ONE MORE TIME! What kind of display do you oh learned sensitive expert recommend for the people who DO suffer seeing such things? Is it possible to make a recommendation or does it take a zillion posts back and forth with people trying to quantify what is in somebody else's eyes--even IF it is really there and still not being able to come up with a recommendation?

If anyone in hte history of the universe was going to trash Plasma could you think of a better way to do it?

It is not JUVENILE to ask such questions!

It is JUVENILE to afix the appelation of FARTER to anyone who does!

So the bottom line is this: Will there be a recommendation at the end of this exercise or a zillion posts trashing Plasma with everyone congragulating each other on being mature and discussing such a charade in a thoughtful??? manner?

I acknowledge that some people see things that I do not see.

Can you see a solution for those people problem? I'll even give you all the due respect in the world and just ask you WHAT "IN YOUR OWN EYES" do you SEE as a solution to these people's problem?

Has there been anti-plasma posting anywhere in this thread? No.

Again, I ask everyone else who is not bothered or concerned with this artifact to refrain from posting in this thread.

I've already explained the source of the issue, if it's bothersome to you, you may want to avoid plasma displays. I am not that familiar with a large number of plasma displays so I cannot say if some may be using phosphors that may be less susceptible to causing this artifact to become visible, but it is certainly a possibility, just as CRTs vary in the visibility of this artifact.

There have been numerous threads in the past on this topic, so don't act as if this is a new discovery. It's been covered many times before.

Aren't bothered or don't see this? Fine, then don't post in this thread.
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post #190 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:14am
WHat cracks me up is the lengths these people go to to FIND the problems.
"Man...when I wave my hand in front of my eyes, I see these things"
You have got to be kidding me, right?
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post #191 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:17am
Thread Starter 
Yoda1 and Dalandis: The Architects of The Vast Conspiracy To Subvert Sales of Plasma.

And I thought this was a forum for adults. Get a grip, Artwood.
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post #192 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:17am
IN OTHER WORDS: Keep the charade going on IN FINITUM. Wake me up when ANYBODY ANYWHERE finds a cure for these people's problem!
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post #193 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

WHat cracks me up the the lengths these people go to to FIND the problems.
"Man...when I wave my hand in front of my eyes, I see these things"
You have got to be kidding me, right?

Yeah, posting a video off the internet that clearly exhibits this phenomena is such a herculean effort.
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post #194 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

WHat cracks me up is the lengths these people go to to FIND the problems.
"Man...when I wave my hand in front of my eyes, I see these things"
You have got to be kidding me, right?

Or perhaps the "beer" factor has kicked in when this phenomenon occurs?
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post #195 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:19am
Screen shot of game.

Okay... I guess you can ALL see the effect on this game screen... watching the movie in action it is plain to see on my CRT. And yes... I believe all you plasma users (me included) can see these when you are watching, but you choose to ignore them, or they are so fast they don't matter.

BUT for me... when this happens the color is an erruption in my eyes... so the glows and trails are MUCH brighter than the rest of the picture... the center of the hot white area sort of pulses at me too.

That's what feels like the attack.

When I watch Casablanca... I see this same thing... and its BRIGHT to my eyes.

But who cares, right? You guys can't see it... so Yoda and I have a curse... I certainly WISH I did not see them. They certainly don't go away by trying to ignore them.

[IMG]gamescreen.jpg[/IMG]

(Never tried to add a pic to one of these messages, so please forgive if it does not work)
LL
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post #196 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

IN OTHER WORDS: Keep the charade going on IN FINITUM. Wake me up when ANYBODY ANYWHERE finds a cure for these people's problem!

Translation: "I bought a plasma and your critcism of its faults hurts my feelings." Waaaah. Go away, troll.
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post #197 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalandis View Post

Screen shot of game.

Okay... I guess you can ALL see the effect on this game screen... watching the movie in action it is plain to see on my CRT. And yes... I believe all you plasma users (me included) can see these when you are watching, but you choose to ignore them, or they are so fast they don't matter.

BUT for me... when this happens the color is an erruption in my eyes... so the glows and trails are MUCH brighter than the rest of the picture... the center of the hot white area sort of pulses at me too.

That's what feels like the attack.

When I watch Casablanca... I see this same thing... and its BRIGHT to my eyes.

But who cares, right? You guys can't see it... so Yoda and I have a curse... I certainly WISH I did not see them. They certainly don't go away by trying to ignore them.

[IMG]gamescreen.jpg[/IMG]

(Never tried to add a pic to one of these messages, so please forgive if it does not work)


Yup, Dalandis. That's exactly it, and in motion it's a lot more intense and much harder to pin down. It blurs across your eyes in a kind of "mush" of color that makes it almost painful to endure.
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post #198 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:22am
OMG..posting screenshots and recordings....yeah, that's convincing.
GIve me a pic and photoshop and I'll show you all kinds of stuff.
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post #199 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda1 View Post

Translation: "I bought a plasma and your critcism of its faults hurts my feelings." Waaaah. Go away, troll.

I think what you don't like about Artwood is that he is questioning what you are saying. Nothing more, nothing less.
I am also, BTW.
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post #200 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

OMG..posting screenshots and recordings....yeah, that's convincing.
GIve me a pic and photoshop and I'll show you all kinds of stuff.

So now, Dalandis and I have teamed up to sabotage the sales of plasma by posting photoshopped pics of Rainbow Six Cam footage from E3? LOL. You guys are caaarrrrrrraaaaaaazy.
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post #201 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:33am
Dude... nobody here really cares if you buy a Plasma, LCD or even a dreaded RPTV!
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post #202 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalandis View Post

Screen shot of game.

Okay... I guess you can ALL see the effect on this game screen... watching the movie in action it is plain to see on my CRT. And yes... I believe all you plasma users (me included) can see these when you are watching, but you choose to ignore them, or they are so fast they don't matter.

BUT for me... when this happens the color is an erruption in my eyes... so the glows and trails are MUCH brighter than the rest of the picture... the center of the hot white area sort of pulses at me too.

That's what feels like the attack.

When I watch Casablanca... I see this same thing... and its BRIGHT to my eyes.

But who cares, right? You guys can't see it... so Yoda and I have a curse... I certainly WISH I did not see them. They certainly don't go away by trying to ignore them.

[IMG]gamescreen.jpg[/IMG]

(Never tried to add a pic to one of these messages, so please forgive if it does not work)

That is exactly what I have described, however because that is a fixed camera (and a pan on the display) that is more a phosphor decay artifact, but the same thing exists temporally as you move your eyes and appears very much the same.
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post #203 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

I think what you don't like about Artwood is that he is questioning what you are saying. Nothing more, nothing less.
I am also, BTW.

As I said, why are you questioning this?

It's been well established in the past, and explained.

Don't see it? Great! Then you have no real need to read or participate in the thread.

I don't expect the VAST majority of viewers to have any problem with this.

You are the vast majority, so go elsewhere and stop flaming. This did not concern you until you decided that you knew better in the face of explanations of precisely why this artifact is present based on the inherent operation of the display.
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post #204 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:37am
Now wait just a second elemental1... that screen shot is right off the file Yoda posted... if you tell me you can't see that when watching the quicktime movie then you're the insane one.

I am now convinced that if we were all standing in front of that plamsa together... you would not see it and I would... but that video footage DOES capture the effect... just as my eyes do... except they are much brighter in my eyes than this screen shot shows.

Now look at the image again... and just imagine that the green glow and the center of what is supposed to be white is VERY BRIGHT... like someone threw just those areas into VIVID mode with PICTURE maxed out.

Now if you see that happen to you every 5 or 10 seconds (or almost contantly in black and white movies) you'd know what I'm talking about.

But it's there... now I have proved to myself I see it in every plasma out there. (even pro-calibrated showroom displays).

So for anyone else out there in the world considering plasma... buy it... love it... enjoy the heck out of it. You will more than likely be fine and not see any of this. But just be on the lookout for this effect. It's hard to see in the store.

If it were JUST pixel decay, I could live with it.

But for me... I see the green trails AND they are accompanied by pulse and bright flash.

99.9% of the population can not see them... obviously.
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post #205 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

As I said, why are you questioning this?

SO, because I have not seen it I am not allowed to question it?
Is that the kind of logic you are using?
Why are you so worried about people questioning these 'facts'?
A sure sign of BS, if you ask me.
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post #206 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:45am
Basically phosphors decay at different rates.

CRTs do this too, though many direct views have very slow green phosphors especially to reduce flicker so you're more likely to see green trails that really stay for a while (whole fractions of seconds, which is a long time) as opposed to decay-rainbows.

Projection TVs you will find, especially HD sets and front-projection (designed for graphics) have faster phosphors and should be run at faster refresh rates, but still the phosphors decay at different rates. As you increase the refresh rate, at some point you won't be able to see flicker, because your eyes are too slow. However, flicker is still occuring as the phosphors decay, and because they decay at different rates you get that kind of yellow decay in between refreshes. As you dart your eyes around you may still see this after-effect despite the fact that you can't sense the flicker that is occurring.

I am particularly sensitive to this kind of thing (rainbows on 1-chip DLPs drive me nuts), and it's why I run my CRT projector at 72hz progressive, though I still see some decay artifacts even at this high a refresh rate.

Viewing with ambient light and things like that will vastly reduce visibility of these artifacts, FYI.

Again, most people will never notice these kinds of things, or if they do inadvertently notice them they won't be bothered by them.
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post #207 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:51am
The people who do not see this --- why the heck are you questioning that this is happening to me? Heck... I'm a busy guy. I bought a TV that I think I would love EXCEPT for this major problem I see in my eyes. I came to this forum in the hopes that someone would be able to offer some advice to eliminate the effect.

I certainly would not get any gratification pulling the wool over the eyes of people who do not give a rip about me.

I am trying to explain what it looks like so perhaps I can track it down. Thought Hertz might have something to do with it... but it does not. Thought someone might say that my set is defective... but it's not.

All this is education for me. But you've turned it into me having to defend myself.

So I'm the big loser. You win... you can't see it. Congrats.
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post #208 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalandis View Post

Now wait just a second elemental1... that screen shot is right off the file Yoda posted... if you tell me you can't see that when watching the quicktime movie then you're the insane one.

Ok, first off....it's QTime..hehe.
There are too many variables for this to be proof of anything.
I am new to plasma and I will be on the lookout, but not overly so.
I think the PQ of plasma is just incredible and it is just amazing that people like you are complaining about any of the HD sets out there.
I was just checking out the AVIA DvD......just look how it used to be. Look at the demo shots they show you from older tech.
I just find it hard to imagine people are having real issues with these amazing new toys.
Granted, you might have an ailment...but it's NOT the tech at fault here.
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post #209 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:56am
We are receiving many complaints concerning this thread.

This thread is being closed until we can figure out what is going on.

Dave
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post #210 of 838
5/12/06 at 11:56am
dalandis: I can't really apologize for the behavior of other people, but I would if I could!

Again, I'm not super-familiar with various plasma displays, so I don't know if suggesting other plasmas might be helpful or not, it may well not be.

Viewing with lights on may reduce the visibility of this, though I've seen this with lots of lights on in the room as well, so again I don't know if that will be enough, though it's easy to try out.

You may need to switch to another display technology, or perhaps you will become accustomed to this artifact or find a way to ignore it.

Those seem to be the options at this point at least.
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