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Please Join and post what speakers you have - Page 109

post #3241 of 3365
Hi this is robin i bought new sony blu ray home theater system bdv E290 2 months before they came for installation also but still iam not satisfied i want to set the exact volume level for all the speakers . i dont have auto speaker calibration setup .In manual calibration the volume level +- 6db for all the speakers.i dont know how to use spl meter.kindly send me the exact speaker level volume for each speaker in db.



ya i installed smart tools spl meter andriod application for my galaxy note but values displayed in that app is from 0 to 120 db [/B]how can i convert it for 6db.
Then i analyzed all the speaker it shows 30 db So what is my speaker level . And tell me the exact level for my woofer out of 6db please

MY Sitting position towards front left,right center,Woofer is about 3.5 m and rear speakers is about 1.6m

PLEASE HELP !!!!!
post #3242 of 3365
Hi this is robin i bought new sony blu ray home theater system bdv E290 2 months before they came for installation also but still iam not satisfied i want to set the exact volume level for all the speakers . i dont have auto speaker calibration setup .In manual calibration the volume level +- 6db for all the speakers.i dont know how to use spl meter.kindly send me the exact speaker level volume for each speaker in db.



ya i installed smart tools spl meter andriod application for my galaxy note but values displayed in that app is from 0 to 120 db [/B]how can i convert it for 6db.
Then i analyzed all the speaker it shows 30 db So what is my speaker level . And tell me the exact level for my woofer out of 6db please

MY Sitting position towards front left,right center,Woofer is about 3.5 m and rear speakers is about 1.6m

PLEASE HELP !!!!!
post #3243 of 3365
Martin Logan SL3 mains
Martin Logan Logos center
PSB Image S50 surrounds
SVS 20-39 sub
post #3244 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinst View Post

i installed smart tools spl meter andriod application for my galaxy note but values displayed in that app is from 0 to 120 db [/B]how can i convert it for 6db. Then i analyzed all the speaker it shows 30 db So what is my speaker level . And tell me the exact level for my woofer out of 6db please

Your AVR probably has -6dB to +6dB speaker level adjustments / trims for each speaker - as I said before, no one can tell you the correct settings for these as they will be different for each room or speaker placement. But don't worry about it, you will be able to figure out your own speaker level adjustments - just follow these steps to get each speaker within 1 or 2dB of each other's relative volume.

The idea is to play the calibration tone through each speaker until the SPL meter reads the same for each speaker while sitting at the primary listening position. Start with all the speaker level adjustments / trims set at 0dB. Then with the calibration tone playing from the first speaker (any speaker) turn the volume up until the tone is loud, your meter should read around 75dB - write down this value.

Then using your remote (or a helper) advance the AVR to the next speaker without changing the position of your SPL meter. If the tone reads less on the SPL meter, increase the speaker trim by +1dB. If the tone reads higher on the SPL meter, decrease the speaker trim by -1. Continue adjusting until this speaker matches the SPL reading from the first speaker that you wrote down. Once the two readings are the same, go to the next speaker and repeat. When you are done, you should be able to cycle through the 5 speakers + subwoofer one by one and the reading on the SPL meter will stay very close to the same value.

Good Luck
Edited by mtn-tech - 8/21/13 at 9:17pm
post #3245 of 3365
Hi All - new here.

Would love to get some tips on the first thing I should upgrade as my system doesn't quite give me the quality I hoped for, in my particular my (what I think are) nice mid-level front/center speakers:


Center: Polk CS20
Front: Polk TSI200s
Surround: Cambrdige Soundworks MC50 (old ... this might be the answer?)
Rear: Cambrdige Soundworks MC150 (6.1 system)
Sub: BIC America F12
Receiver: Sony STR- DH 720

Thanks!

Zaha
post #3246 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheZaha View Post

Hi All - new here.

Would love to get some tips on the first thing I should upgrade as my system doesn't quite give me the quality I hoped for, in my particular my (what I think are) nice mid-level front/center speakers:


Center: Polk CS20
Front: Polk TSI200s
Surround: Cambrdige Soundworks MC50 (old ... this might be the answer?)
Rear: Cambrdige Soundworks MC150 (6.1 system)
Sub: BIC America F12
Receiver: Sony STR- DH 720

Thanks!

Zaha

Thanks for posting! How long have you had your AVR? Maybe some more power would wake those speakers up?
post #3247 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheZaha View Post

Hi All - new here.

Would love to get some tips on the first thing I should upgrade as my system doesn't quite give me the quality I hoped for, in my particular my (what I think are) nice mid-level front/center speakers:


Center: Polk CS20
Front: Polk TSI200s
Surround: Cambrdige Soundworks MC50 (old ... this might be the answer?)
Rear: Cambrdige Soundworks MC150 (6.1 system)
Sub: BIC America F12
Receiver: Sony STR- DH 720

Thanks!

Zaha
a better sub would make a world of a difference and really make your speakers sing - I went from a Bic F12 to a SB13-Ultra smile.gif
post #3248 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheZaha View Post

Hi All - new here.

Would love to get some tips on the first thing I should upgrade as my system doesn't quite give me the quality I hoped for, in my particular my (what I think are) nice mid-level front/center speakers:


Center: Polk CS20
Front: Polk TSI200s
Surround: Cambrdige Soundworks MC50 (old ... this might be the answer?)
Rear: Cambrdige Soundworks MC150 (6.1 system)
Sub: BIC America F12
Receiver: Sony STR- DH 720

Thanks!

Zaha

I'd estimate the place to start is with the receiver and the subwoofer.
post #3249 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwv1080 View Post

My gear is listed in my signature, but in case anyone missed it...smile.gif

Martin Logan Theos main speakers
Martin Logan Motif center speaker
Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000 surrounds
Martin-Logan Abyss subwoofer



I haven't taken any pictures of the Def Techs yet.
Why didn't you get Martin Logans bookshelves for the backs.
post #3250 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtyr View Post

I'd estimate the place to start is with the receiver and the subwoofer.

Good thing I asked. Receiver was the last place I would have started. This thing cost me $350 (year ago) and had good reviews and seemingly good features. Didn't think it could hinder the performance. Similar thought about the subwoofer - thought it was adequate and bass sounds adequate although sometimes muddled. Thanks!
post #3251 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff4RFC View Post

Thanks for posting! How long have you had your AVR? Maybe some more power would wake those speakers up?

Thank YOU!

I've had it for about a year.

I moved into a new place with a decent sized living room so jumped on building my first system. I got some old speakers from family (the cambridge soundworks) and just needed a receiver. I went to best buy and (clearly didn't do enough research) - bought one that had the features I wanted and the one that had the most power (~950W) from the shelves. Apparently that number didn't mean much? it had solid reviews on Amazon and I was already surprised at how much I was spending on it (just didn't/still dont understand how critical it is).

Slowly the savings came in, so I got the subwoofer a month later,, I upgraded my TV in December, and then the front/center Polks speakers in March. They sounded good...but not great. Given the upgrade (I used to have the Mc50s and Mc150 in the front) I expected more. Put it out of my head for a little while then decided to start doing some research and ended up here to figure out what's going on. My thought was actually that I need better surrounds. Didn't hit me that it could be the receiver... lots of learning to do. Kind of a bummer though as the receiver is still the single most expensive piece in the entire system.

Thanks for any and all feedback!
post #3252 of 3365
Check out SVS. The PB1000 would make the F12 sound really bad. I know my small SB1000 did. I'm shocked at what I miss in movies specifically. I always thought it was loud enough but only in the mid bass section. Lows do not exist on the F12.

There is a chance that the receiver isn't the problem.

You could look into Cambridge Audio S30's for rears. They would be the best part of the system for $219. It would at least give you a chance to see if it the speakers that cause the problem.
post #3253 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheZaha View Post

Thank YOU!

I've had it for about a year.

I moved into a new place with a decent sized living room so jumped on building my first system. I got some old speakers from family (the cambridge soundworks) and just needed a receiver. I went to best buy and (clearly didn't do enough research) - bought one that had the features I wanted and the one that had the most power (~950W) from the shelves. Apparently that number didn't mean much? it had solid reviews on Amazon and I was already surprised at how much I was spending on it (just didn't/still dont understand how critical it is).

Slowly the savings came in, so I got the subwoofer a month later,, I upgraded my TV in December, and then the front/center Polks speakers in March. They sounded good...but not great. Given the upgrade (I used to have the Mc50s and Mc150 in the front) I expected more. Put it out of my head for a little while then decided to start doing some research and ended up here to figure out what's going on. My thought was actually that I need better surrounds. Didn't hit me that it could be the receiver... lots of learning to do. Kind of a bummer though as the receiver is still the single most expensive piece in the entire system.

Thanks for any and all feedback!

Yeah, power with the Polks makes a good deal of difference. I just did an experiment with my system, a little more extreme than yours. Two sets of RTiA9's, CSiA6 and a pair of FXiA6's and powered them all of just my AVR, an Onkyo 807. My room is 13x15x8.

The A9's are rated 50-500 recommended power. With 7channels, my AVR was providing 33wpc @ 1% THD.

For movies, the sound was very clear and detailed. It was nice to hear my set up without my amps. The RTiA's are a revealing speaker of depth and detail and provide good amounts of bass (you can feel). Some of the scenes were less than robust compared to being amped.

Music (2ch) was again very detailed but I noticed especially symbols sounded bright. When amped, the brightness was less noticeable. While listening to music with my eyes closed both with and without the amps, the music sounded stronger (?) when amped.

Overall, I'd rate my AVR 80% capable, with the amps filling in the other 20% that lacked in a fuller more robust sound.

The two amps I have offer 300wpc to the mains and 200wpc to the Center and Rear surrounds, the AVR powers the surrounds with 135wpc
post #3254 of 3365


Thanks all - will look into at least testing out some more powerful receivers. see if I can sell mine for something on craigs list maybe.

Thanks!
post #3255 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff4RFC View Post

Yeah, power with the Polks makes a good deal of difference. I just did an experiment with my system, a little more extreme than yours. Two sets of RTiA9's, CSiA6 and a pair of FXiA6's and powered them all of just my AVR, an Onkyo 807. My room is 13x15x8.

The A9's are rated 50-500 recommended power. With 7channels, my AVR was providing 33wpc @ 1% THD.

For movies, the sound was very clear and detailed. It was nice to hear my set up without my amps. The RTiA's are a revealing speaker of depth and detail and provide good amounts of bass (you can feel). Some of the scenes were less than robust compared to being amped.

Music (2ch) was again very detailed but I noticed especially symbols sounded bright. When amped, the brightness was less noticeable. While listening to music with my eyes closed both with and without the amps, the music sounded stronger (?) when amped.

Overall, I'd rate my AVR 80% capable, with the amps filling in the other 20% that lacked in a fuller more robust sound.

The two amps I have offer 300wpc to the mains and 200wpc to the Center and Rear surrounds, the AVR powers the surrounds with 135wpc

So are you suggesting that my AVR should be sufficient? But adding an amp may help immensely?

The specs on the sony: (135W/ch x 7 @8ohm, 1kHz, THD 0.05%) 105W + 105W @ 8ohm, 1kHz, THD 1%, and the recommended power on the polks are 20-150.
post #3256 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheZaha View Post

So are you suggesting that my AVR should be sufficient? But adding an amp may help immensely?

The specs on the sony: (135W/ch x 7 @8ohm, 1kHz, THD 0.05%) 105W + 105W @ 8ohm, 1kHz, THD 1%, and the recommended power on the polks are 20-150.

perhaps that was a dumb a comment regarding the amp as the Sony appears to not be upgradable with an amp?
post #3257 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff4RFC View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheZaha View Post

Thank YOU!

I've had it for about a year.

I moved into a new place with a decent sized living room so jumped on building my first system. I got some old speakers from family (the cambridge soundworks) and just needed a receiver. I went to best buy and (clearly didn't do enough research) - bought one that had the features I wanted and the one that had the most power (~950W) from the shelves. Apparently that number didn't mean much? it had solid reviews on Amazon and I was already surprised at how much I was spending on it (just didn't/still dont understand how critical it is).

Slowly the savings came in, so I got the subwoofer a month later,, I upgraded my TV in December, and then the front/center Polks speakers in March. They sounded good...but not great. Given the upgrade (I used to have the Mc50s and Mc150 in the front) I expected more. Put it out of my head for a little while then decided to start doing some research and ended up here to figure out what's going on. My thought was actually that I need better surrounds. Didn't hit me that it could be the receiver... lots of learning to do. Kind of a bummer though as the receiver is still the single most expensive piece in the entire system.

Thanks for any and all feedback!

Yeah, power with the Polks makes a good deal of difference. I just did an experiment with my system, a little more extreme than yours. Two sets of RTiA9's, CSiA6 and a pair of FXiA6's and powered them all of just my AVR, an Onkyo 807. My room is 13x15x8.

The A9's are rated 50-500 recommended power. With 7channels, my AVR was providing 33wpc @ 1% THD.

For movies, the sound was very clear and detailed. It was nice to hear my set up without my amps. The RTiA's are a revealing speaker of depth and detail and provide good amounts of bass (you can feel). Some of the scenes were less than robust compared to being amped.

Music (2ch) was again very detailed but I noticed especially symbols sounded bright. When amped, the brightness was less noticeable. While listening to music with my eyes closed both with and without the amps, the music sounded stronger (?) when amped.

Overall, I'd rate my AVR 80% capable, with the amps filling in the other 20% that lacked in a fuller more robust sound.

The two amps I have offer 300wpc to the mains and 200wpc to the Center and Rear surrounds, the AVR powers the surrounds with 135wpc


Sighted evaluation, right?

For a more powerful amp to make an actual audible difference, first you have to establish that the lower powered amp is clipping much of the time.

How did you do that?
post #3258 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheZaha View Post

Would love to get some tips on the first thing I should upgrade as my system doesn't quite give me the quality I hoped for ...

Sound quality or quantity of sound? How big is your room? I like Polk speakers but I never heard the TSi series. Are your mains on stands that put the tweeter at ear level?

Your center channel has good sensitivity at 91dB, the mains a little less so at 89dB. I am not sure that more power is the only answer - many don't believe that you can hear the difference between an AVR and an amp unless you are driving it to its power limits. Your Sony doesn't have preamp outputs so you can't just try adding an amp - you might be able borrow a freind's higher-end AVR to try. These would be my suggestions:

1. New sub - SVS is a good suggestion. Their subs start at $500.
2. Bigger mains like Polk RTi series floor standing and move your TSi speakers to the rear.
3. Bigger center channel speaker like a Polk LSi - the center channel is primary speaker in a home theater
post #3259 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post

Sound quality or quantity of sound? How big is your room? I like Polk speakers but I never heard the TSi series. Are your mains on stands that put the tweeter at ear level?

Your center channel has good sensitivity at 91dB, the mains a little less so at 89dB. I am not sure that more power is the only answer - many don't believe that you can hear the difference between an AVR and an amp unless you are driving it to its power limits. Your Sony doesn't have preamp outputs so you can't just try adding an amp - you might be able borrow a freind's higher-end AVR to try. These would be my suggestions:

1. New sub - SVS is a good suggestion. Their subs start at $500.
2. Bigger mains like Polk RTi series floor standing and move your TSi speakers to the rear.
3. Bigger center channel speaker like a Polk LSi - the center channel is primary speaker in a home theater

interesting - thanks for the response. my current room isn't that big - about 14x15' which is why I didn't go all out, but I still expected when I got the Tsis to have a very rich sound; they are certainly loud enough. The mains are almost at ear level - a bit below:



My plan was to get the RTI or or the TSI500 speakers for fronts and move the 200s as the rear when I got a new place. Sounds like what you are saying is until then I'll have to deal with what I have.I will try and see if i can borrow a stronger AVR to see if that makes a difference that's a great suggestion. Thanks again!
post #3260 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheZaha View Post

... the Tsis to have a very rich sound; they are certainly loud enough. The mains are almost at ear level - a bit below


Thanks for the photo. Some more suggestions:

1. Those mains are too low - the top of them may be almost ear level, but the TSi200 is a D'Appolito array (mid-tweeter-mid) so the tweeter is in the center, far below your seated position. That type of speaker is known for its wide horizontal dispersion, but very limited vertical dispersion - you could be sitting in a null. The tweeter should be at ear level, either angle the speakers upward toward your seated ear height or even better lift them with stands.

2. More distance between your mains if possible (should have 25 to 30 degrees between them) and angle them inward slightly

3. The center speaker should be moved forward so the front baffle is in front of the cabinet and the shelf it sits on, it should also be angled upward toward your seated ear height.
post #3261 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Sighted evaluation, right?

For a more powerful amp to make an actual audible difference, first you have to establish that the lower powered amp is clipping much of the time.

How did you do that?

You called it; sighted.

I won't take away the fact that you have way more knowledge about this category than me, but if you've never taken a pair of Polk Audio RTiA9's and spent some time with them with an amp and without, then your knowledge goes without understanding smile.gif No offense meant, probable doesn't make a bit if difference in the big picture anyway. Audios muchachos
post #3262 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff4RFC View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Sighted evaluation, right?

For a more powerful amp to make an actual audible difference, first you have to establish that the lower powered amp is clipping much of the time.

How did you do that?

You called it; sighted.

And therefore likely to be subject to expectation bias.
Quote:
I won't take away the fact that you have way more knowledge about this category than me, but if you've never taken a pair of Polk Audio RTiA9's and spent some time with them with an amp and without, then your knowledge goes without understanding :

I perceive that as as a kind of a cheap shot. There are thousands of different models of speakers, and no I have not heard them all. Nobody has. However, speakers share common characteristics and to some degree their actual performance is predictable. Every reliable indication is that the RTA-9 is a 90 dB/W speaker with the usual impedance curve which includes some excursions in the direction of 4 ohms. The biggest variable in this discussion is something I'll never be able to recreate, which is your quest for loudness.
Quote:
No offense meant, probable doesn't make a bit if difference in the big picture anyway. Audios muchachos

I can sympathize with your perceptions of your power amplifier upgrade. Back in the days before I was wised up by doing quick-switched level matched double blind tests I did my own receiver versus big stand alone power amp comparisons. The comparison was between a 60 wpc receiver versus a very robust 200 wpc power amp. Later on I wised up when I figured out how to do the comparison right and found out that there was no audible difference. This has been repeated many times by many people. Expectation bias can be very real.

One big tip-off is your mischaracterization of a 135 wpc AVR as having only 33 wpc. You've been sold on the incorrect idea that music and loudspeakers make the same demands on equipment as pure sine waves and resistors. Since I've repeately proven that there are significant differences on AVS many times I won't belabor the point here gratuitously but I will explain it again if you wish.
post #3263 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

One big tip-off is your mischaracterization of a 135 wpc AVR as having only 33 wpc. You've been sold on the incorrect idea that music and loudspeakers make the same demands on equipment as pure sine waves and resistors. Since I've repeately proven that there are significant differences on AVS many times I won't belabor the point here gratuitously but I will explain it again if you wish.

Hmmm, now I'm a bit confused. I thought bench tests and lab tests were to provide information on wattage per channel driven on a particular AVR, was an accurate source a guy could rely on. Are you trying to insinuate these bench tests are inaccurate?

http://www.hometheater.com/content/onkyo-tx-nr807-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures
post #3264 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff4RFC View Post

Hmmm, now I'm a bit confused. I thought bench tests and lab tests were to provide information on wattage per channel driven on a particular AVR, was an accurate source a guy could rely on. Are you trying to insinuate these bench tests are inaccurate?

http://www.hometheater.com/content/onkyo-tx-nr807-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures
Lab tests are to give a standard idea of how the equipment or design will/should perform in real world use. Bench testing is to make sure that it actually performs as designed, before it gets shipped out to the consumer, or after repairs to an item, to make sure that it will perform as specified by manufacturer spec's.
post #3265 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Lab tests are to give a standard idea of how the equipment or design will/should perform in real world use. Bench testing is to make sure that it actually performs as designed, before it gets shipped out to the consumer, or after repairs to an item, to make sure that it will perform as specified by manufacturer spec's.

Bingo. To give a standard. Not an idea, but to create a standard. The test allows the consumer to know how it actually performs and not as the manufacturer's bloated numbers claim it to be.
post #3266 of 3365
My speaker system is no where near what most of these listed are but here is what I currently have:

Center: Polk 25C
Fronts: 2 Polk 65Ts
Rears: 2 Polk 45Bs
Sub: Polk PSW110 (soon to be replaced with a Klipsch rw-12d)

Receiver: Denon 1913 AVR

Coming from a Vizio sound bar, the difference is tremendous...but after looking at some of these systems, I realize this will probably just be the beginning of my newly found home theater obsession.
post #3267 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by burntreality View Post

My speaker system is no where near what most of these listed ... Coming from a Vizio sound bar, the difference is tremendous...but after looking at some of these systems, I realize this will probably just be the beginning of my newly found home theater obsession.

Don't berate your Polk's - I think that they are very good speakers and for their price class they are nearly unbeatable. I have a little pair of Polk's at work and they are great. Your sub is low-end compared to the rest so you are upgrading your weakest link first. I listened to the LSi towers and I was impressed - great imaging, good mid-bass and very neutral - nice speakers. I haven't heard the new Monitor line - how do those 45B's sound? Are they on stands or wall mounted? Why don't you post a picture of your speakers in action?
post #3268 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post

Don't berate your Polk's - I think that they are very good speakers and for their price class they are nearly unbeatable. I have a little pair of Polk's at work and they are great. Your sub is low-end compared to the rest so you are upgrading your weakest link first. I listened to the LSi towers and I was impressed - great imaging, good mid-bass and very neutral - nice speakers. I haven't heard the new Monitor line - how do those 45B's sound? Are they on stands or wall mounted? Why don't you post a picture of your speakers in action?

The only reason I bought that sub initially was that I got it on sale for 110 at Best Buy. I plan on moving it to my bedroom once I upgrade.

The 45B's shocked me of how nice they are. I have them on stands (http://www.amazon.com/SANUS-SYSTEMS-BF-31B-Speaker-Stands/dp/B00006JQ5O) . When watching Blu Rays the sound that they produce is fantastic.

I will post a picture either this evening or tonight once I get home from work.
post #3269 of 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post

Don't berate your Polk's - I think that they are very good speakers and for their price class they are nearly unbeatable.

+1

I started with a similar set up with Polk, nicely done.
post #3270 of 3365
Here is a picture of the front of my HT and then the rear speakers. Like I said it's not much but it helps me to realize the possibilities once I upgrade.

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