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MASTER BURN-IN/BREAK-IN THREAD: ALL POSTS HERE ONLY! - Page 9  

post #241 of 2990
Quote:


Originally posted by Joe Murphy Jr
Yes, but not by much (I'd estimate about a 10% - 15% greater risk).

That said, I'd still go LCD for extensive gaming or computer use with a display.

How about a situation in a bedroom where there will be a significant amount of watching of stations with static image issues (Fox News, CNBC etc.) ?
post #242 of 2990
Quote:
Originally posted by nwild
But can anyone give me a sense of relative burn in risk CRT vs. Plasma? Are plasmas more likely to burn-in than CRT?

Either can be burned in if not properly taken care of. If you want an example of how I recently burned in a CRT direct view read my How-to guide for ruining your TV (off-site link).
post #243 of 2990
Looking at possibly picking up the Panasonic TH-42PD25U/P, and I am wondering if anyone has had any problems with burn-in (with or without adjusting the contrast) with this model? I would me using it for mostly TV and DVD's, with a little PS2 mixed in if I can get away with it. All info is appreciated!
post #244 of 2990
You should check out the "MASTER BURN-IN THREAD".
post #245 of 2990
So, after reading all the threads i don't seem to get a warm-fuzzy feeling that there is a definitive answer to this or not.... anyone?

If i want to watch 4:3 TV on the TH-42PWD6UY, will using the medium brightness gray-bars mitigate the potential burn-in issues as well as running in *JUST* mode?

Any input?

Thanks!

Sam
post #246 of 2990
Hi smarsh66 and welcome to the forum.

To answer your question I will give our viewing habits for a reference.

We watch ~70% of SD (via sat), ~25% of DVD and ~5% of HD.

We normally "Just" the SD, however, there are a few (~10-15% of that 70%) where we watch in "Un-Just" mode. No grey bars either. We haven't had a problem with burn-in or image retention.

Then again we aren't watching 4:3 content in it's native resolution all the time.

The point is, if you vary your viewing habits and have calibrated your unit I don't think you will have a problem. However, I won't be held responsible either.

I do believe that the grey bars will in fact mitigate the potential (nice way to say that BTW) of burn-in issues.

YMMV.
post #247 of 2990
I also have TH-42PWD6UY. Just to add to what rmcgirr83 said. After each session of tv watching in a way that does not fill the screen fully (yes, even for dvds that have black bars on top and bottom 2.35:1) I usually run screen saver for 1-3 hours, right away. FYI: I watch 25% SD of which half is on HD channels upconverted and has black bars which you cannot remove.

Another friend of mine, has had TH-42PWD4UY for a couple of years and he has used the same process I described above all along, he has no burn-in. Just vary your viewing habits, do run in torch mode (factory mode with things turned up waaaay high), and once in a while maintain the screen with screen saver. Every month on the same date I run screen saver overnight for about 10 hours or so in addition to after watching with grey or black bars. This is a small price to pay for no burn-in and well-maintained set.

Vadim
post #248 of 2990
I will keep it in mind.... yes, burn mode is a great way to describe the factory settings. I immediately put the picture level down well into the negatives..... not only was it badly blooming the picture, but it made NTSC look horrible!

Thanks again.

I'll have to wait until January to get my monitor calibrated by Gregg Loewen.... He's not in San Diego again until then. He calibrated a previous CRT for mois and did an outstanding job.... in the mean-time Digital VE calibration it is.

Sam
post #249 of 2990
FWIW, Greg also did my set as well and I was pleased with the results.
post #250 of 2990
I just read a letter in UAV where the writer discussed that many folks miscalibrate their digital displays by turning the contrast down too far, thereby reducing the ability of the display to put out as many levels of brightness as is possible. The point was that if you turn your contrast down below where whites begin to crush, then you reduce the, say, 8 bit based gray scale from 256 levels to maybe only 6 bits for 64 levels.

Anyone know whether this level is then so high that burn-in is at risk?
post #251 of 2990
Panasonic claims the TH-50PHD7UY has:

"A new Multi-facet Asymmetrical Configuration Hyper-pixel (MACH) panel features a bounded cell structure and new phosphor material that dramatically improves a panel's service life to 60,000 hours*, boosts peak brightness by more than 10% (from prior models) and increases the resistance to static-image burn-in to the same level as CRT displays."

So if I buy this FP, leave it on it's default settings and watch a lot of 4:3 SD programs can I be confident burn-in will not occur for this display?
post #252 of 2990
The new 7UY models claim to have solved the burn-in problem with a new blue phosphorus.

My question to current owners - are you now comfortable viewing SD material without stretching the aspect ratio? What about increasing the contrast and brightness settings?

Thanks.
post #253 of 2990
Bought one at Good Guys in Fairfield, last week.
Absolutely stunning pictures.

You CAN get a universal wall mount from them for under $300.00. I would recommend sticking with the Sony's own, regardless of the cost.

Once installed on the wall, you can't get your hand in to make the connections you hadn't before you put the thing up on the wall. You also can't get your hand in to tighten the levers for tilting it up and down.

Subwoofer comes off when you remove the table top stand. It slides out, and all the electrical connections to it are removed as well since they are contact type.

With a universal mount, no way to install the subwoofer with the screen on to the wall. Haven't seen Sony's wall mounting kit. Maybe you can with that one, however it would definetely stick out 15 inches or so away from the wall.

No regrets, other than not having bought the Sony mounting kit.

TURK
post #254 of 2990
The 7UY plasma displays are gorgeous and I would like to buy one. All that is holding me back is the prospect of screen burn. I am not a fan of just, zoom or stretch. It seems a poor compromise to spend $6k on a good display and then deliberately distort the picture because the display is too fragile. If the plasma is that succeptible to burn in, then I probably shouldn't be buying it.

I know that I will do a lot of windowbox viewing. I am willing to do some things to prevent screen burn such as ISF calibration + no pc or gaming use.. but I am not willing to "just" the picture or use grey bars. So... the question is am I likely to run into screen burn (don't buy the set), or will I probably be okay? (please, please, let this be the answer). The plasma manufacturers must have tested this issue to death. Has anyone heard any credible numbers? I am making some assumptions about my usage along these lines:

ISF calibrated current gen. plasma
Careful viewing for the first 100hrs
No gaming or PC use
3000 hours on time per year:
&nbsp&nbsp 500 hours with the screen saver on
&nbsp&nbsp 1700 hours (2/3) windowboxed 4:3, with black bars
&nbsp&nbsp 100 hours in letter box mode e.g DVD's >1.85:1 , with black bars
&nbsp&nbsp 700 hours in 16:9 mode, DVDs or HD



1. Has anyone heard or seen any credible test data regarding burn in?

2. Any guesses, WAG or otherwise as to how long a plasma might resist permanent burn with a lot of windowbox viewing?

3. Can I eliminate most of my risk from windowbox bar burn by running the plasma an equal number of hours with an inverse picture? (black 4:3 picture with white bars)?
post #255 of 2990
I am getting close to pulling the trigger, and also was wondering about exact procedures to follow to prevent burn in. For example, my wife likes to watch cnn. How long can she watch it before changing the channel (assuming calibration with avia and waiting till after 300 hours to watch much of it)? 6 hours? 8 hours?
Mike
post #256 of 2990
Is there a reason that some manufacturers do not provide some type of electronic assistance to reduce burn-in or retention? I have a toshiba that has the pixel orbitor, white screen and a negative screen. Looking at buying a new Pioneer pdp4340, which has nothing in the menu, and a sony kde42xs955 which has the orbitor and white screen. It's not so much out of concern as to being curious.
post #257 of 2990
Quote:


Originally posted by ired
So... the question is am I likely to run into screen burn (don't buy the set), or will I probably be okay? (please, please, let this be the answer). The plasma manufacturers must have tested this issue to death. Has anyone heard any credible numbers? I am making some assumptions about my usage along these lines:

Well, according to Techniwizard who I believe works for/with Panasonic so he's very credible, the 7UY burn-in was tested for 1000 (one thousand) hours with a checkerboard image. After that, the white area's of the checkerboard were 2.5% lower in brightness than the black area's.

I would say this could be applicable to 4:3 viewing - if you watched in 4:3 mode for 1000 hours straight, then there would be a 2.5% difference between where the black bars were, and where the picture was. How visible is 2.5%, good question. But yes, it's still susceptible.
post #258 of 2990
Quote:


Well, according to Techniwizard who I believe works for/with Panasonic so he's very credible, the 7UY burn-in was tested for 1000 (one thousand) hours with a checkerboard image. After that, the white area's of the checkerboard were 2.5% lower in brightness than the black area's.

Thank you, that info really helps. I am tentatively leaning towards buying the 7UY, with the expectation of having to run an inverse pattern screen for a few hours each night while I am sleeping to compensate for my windowbox usage. I set up some sample test patterns + made a DVD. 2.5% is readily apparent on contrasty screens, but disappears while watching most material. Based on some quick empirical testing, I cannot visually discern differences <0.5% at all, so I am thinking that I will be okay with this approach.
post #259 of 2990
Great discussion on brun-in. I have just purchased a panny 42PWD7UY and like a typical plasma newbie, I've been very apprehensive about all the burn-in fears surrounding these types of displays. My viewing profile is around 75% DirecTivo SD material using the "Pannasonic Auto" mode of display set to Justified for maximum ellimination of both horizontal and vertical side-bars. Other 25% of use is dvd viewing in Full mode. My concern is about half of these that are in 2.35:1 (?) aspect ration and have the horizontal bars when displayed in Full mode.

I would like to get your feedback on using a combination of timer and screen saver functionality in order to minimize the risk of burn in. I've set the timer to power the unit on at 4AM for a period of 1 hour (power off at 5AM). Also set the white bar screen saver to come on 1 min after timer, and run for 58 mins to 1 min before power off. Would this be effective in reducing risk of burn-in? Would it damage the display? Or is it just over-kill acting only to add more hours to my plasma?
post #260 of 2990
Quote:


My concern is about half of these that are in 2.35:1 (?) aspect ration and have the horizontal bars when displayed in Full mode.

You're probably not going to have any problems. While you didn't mention how many hours you expected to use your plasma, you are only talking about 12.5% letterbox use. Assuming that you don't leave the brightness cranked up high, screen burn shouldn't be an issue. Panasonic is claiming near CRT resistance to burn in on the 7UY glass. I have watched letterbox dvds for years on a 36" CRT (75 - 125/yr), without any signs of burn. It's hard to find meaningful numbers, but it was quoted earlier in this thread that 1000hrs of continuous letterbox viewing might lead to around 2.5% brightness difference. Using the sweep bar is probably helpful. Panasonic is claiming 60,000 hrs, so an extra hour per day shouldn't be a concern.
post #261 of 2990
Made you look...

Maybe not quite, but with more stable blue phosphors being developed all the time, this really is becoming a non-issue.



United States Patent Application 20040099844
Kind Code A1
Ravilisetty, Padmanabha Rao May 27, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stable blue phosphor for plasma display panel applications


Abstract
Small particle divalent europium activated alkaline earth halide aluminate phosphors are produced by thermal decomposition of respective oxides, carbonates and nitrates in presence of activated charcoal carbon by solid-state reaction. The phosphor of the present invention has the empirical formula: (AE.sub.1-xMgEu.sub.x)y.AHAl.sub.10O.sub.17 wherein AE is an alkaline earth metal, such as, Ba, Sr and Ca; wherein AH is an alkali metal halide wherein the halide is selected from the group consisting of: Cl and F; and wherein 0.01.ltoreq.x.ltoreq.0.1 and 0=y<0.1.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inventors: Ravilisetty, Padmanabha Rao; (Highland, NY)
Correspondence Name and Address: Paul D. Greeley, Esq.
Ohlandt, Greeley, Ruggiero & perle, L.L.P.
One Landmark Square,10th Floor
Stamford
CT
06901-2682
US


Assignee Name and Adress: Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd.



Also, nice to see that they are working on these in upstate NY, at the former Plasmaco facility.

Proudly made in the USA.
post #262 of 2990
I am also interested in Greywall's question. I have the Panny 42" 6UY. Do people recommend setting up the screen wiper to run on a timer? If so, how often and how long? What about using the wobbler? Peak limiter? Also, while were on the subject, does anyone use the AGC or the Auto Picture settings? Since my viewing is primarily DVDs I probably don't need to worry. But I would like to do some 4:3 viewing of old videotapes.
post #263 of 2990
Hi all

Has anyone experienced any problems of image retention or burn-in while using this plasma. It uses the ALIS panel.

I have situation where we two different images from two different TV channels retained on the panel which cannot be removed or cleared, even using the screen refresh mode.

The unit is only three months and the client is really pissed off.

Any input would be appreciated.

Cheers

Gordon
post #264 of 2990
Hi Gordon,

Post this question in the MASTER BURN-IN THREAD for more assistance. There is a good chance this thread will be merged in there.

-JR
post #265 of 2990
Change your phone number. Nothing can fix it except possibly more use without static "logos" and such or let the "white screen" on for quite a while (if it has one). Why are they mad? Didn't they know this could happen if static images are left on the screen for long periods of time? Given the "boutique" brand, is it correct to assume you installed and calibrated it? I'm not trying to point any fingers, but burn in is usually due to a "mistake" or ignorance ("lack of "education") - at least for home use.

larry
post #266 of 2990
I am looking at the 7UY and wondered if any of you are using a backup power supply with them. I have an APC 1500 (865w) that I am using with the 52" DLP TV I am returning, and wondering if any of you are using one.

Also I understand in reading all these threads that the 7UY is more burn resistant. Are most of you using a second TV for 4:3 material and watching channels like FOX/CNBC/QVC, that have either stationary images/logos or tickers?
post #267 of 2990
Quote:


Originally posted by Gordon McGlade
Hi all

I have situation where we two different images from two different TV channels retained on the panel which cannot be removed or cleared, even using the screen refresh mode.

The unit is only three months and the client is really pissed off.

Any input would be appreciated.

You may be able to fade your client's "burned in" logos if you make a DVD with the two logos. Invert the picture on a computer before recording the DVD. For example if the two logos in question are white, then you want to end up with a recording that is reversed, in this example black logos against a white screen. The reversed logo has to line up as closely as possible to the position of the burnt image onscreen for this to work. If the client can play this reversed static image as much as possible, the burn in should fade. If it took 200 hours to burn the image, then it may take almost as many hours to fade the burn. This has a reasonable chance of working, but no one can guarantee results.
post #268 of 2990
A thought just occured to me and was curious to see what others think.

Plasmas lose their brightness over time. Modern ones are spec'ed at half brightless level of 60,000 hours. This leads people to think that there is little problem burn-in as this is a lot of hours.

Now, seems to me, as the set gets less bright, the consumer is liable to start to turn up the brightness to compensate. If my experience with my old CRT RPTV is any indication, this sharply accellerates the aging as you are driving the phosphor harder. The curve is liable to become more non-linear this way with light output loss accellerating as time goes by.

I don't know this for a fact but I suspect that the aging tests by manufacturers is based on constant drive of the Plasma, not an increasing one over time.

I don't want to alarm anyone here as even in my scenario, you are going to get 8 to 10 years of life before the set gets too dark, at least that was my experience with my CRT set. I am just interested to know if anyone had thought about this use scenario.

Amir
post #269 of 2990
I always thought contrast was the "killer". Or is it both?

larry
post #270 of 2990
Quote:


Originally posted by amirm
I don't want to alarm anyone here as even in my scenario, you are going to get 8 to 10 years of life before the set gets too dark, at least that was my experience with my CRT set. I am just interested to know if anyone had thought about this use scenario.

Amir

Still a none issue and I believe that many current owners of these sets will be upgrading within that time frame anyway.

8 to 10 years is still quite a distance and, who knows at that point OLED my be the forefront.

With my current ISF settings of -20 brightness I don't believe that the display will significantly decay to the point of being totally useless...not in my time anyway. Even 30,000 til half brightness equates to 10.27 years at 8 hours a day...we average ~5 per day so not really concerned.

Just my .02

YMMV.
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