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MASTER BURN-IN/BREAK-IN THREAD: ALL POSTS HERE ONLY! - Page 93  

post #2761 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkaz527 View Post

I have the same TV. The IR issue didn't really start to become a non-factor until I reached about 700 hours. Now I'm pushing 1000 and I don't really think about it at all...except when playing Madden 07 on 360. Damn EA, damn them to hell.

Thanks for the valuable info! Do you have any IR still or did it all even out with some varied viewing?

I love this set, by the way.
post #2762 of 2990
Well another sort of update, I have had my 42px60u for a while now and almost only play gears of war, and watch a few movies sometimes. When im on the computer or not using the xbox though, I run it on a fullscreen channel. I can still notice the GOW ammo icon on like white and yellow screens, even after hours of movies. Ill have to check how many hours are on the TV now, but nobody can really notice it but me. Also, i watched a 2.35:1 HD DVD the other day and noticed the lines after the movie was done, but those are definetly gone already. Only thing that im wondering, how many years will this last? This TV looks amazing and everyone compliments the PQ on it, i love it. Will there come a day where the ammo bar will be permanetly there? I play that game soo much and it looks so good, i dont really worry about because of that lol. Thanks for the info!
post #2763 of 2990
If you currently play a single game all the time, you will likely get IR or mild burn in. But a year from now, how much do you think you will be playing that game? 3 years from now, will that game even get a minute of use?

We talk about the 15% rule to prevent burn-in: No static images for more than 15% of the total use on the TV. Even if you play a game all the time now, in a few years, as you switch to other games, the hours you spent on that original game will likely be less than 15% of the total hours used and any IR that it caused in the first year will probably be gone.

15% rule is not limited to a few weeks or months. It applies to the entire life of the plasma. To put it into perspective, even hard core games don't have much to worry about unless you play the same game over 15% of the time for years on end. That is if you can stand the temporary IR you will get.

To me, the only application that risks permanent burn in is static digital signage like you find in airport terminals.
post #2764 of 2990
Once you are over 1k hours or so, yeah, you can play games 100% of the time. Just don't play the same game for more then 15% of your panel time. So mix in a little bit of Rainbow Six: Vegas, and another title of your choice.

Update on my own IR (N3 Yellow Hud). I played N3 (Xbox360 game) for about 12 hours on/off in a short time, using power save settings and Game mode on a Pioneer PDP4270HD. There are a TON of bright yellow/white HUD elements that stay on the screen forever. The worst is a circular HP hud that is solid yellow to represent life, and dark green when low on life.

Screenshot of the game: http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/7...g_3880718.html

My panel was 200 hours old with a decent mix of break in watching and I thought I was 'safe.' The game left behind almost all the elements. Kills, combo, level, etc. It was nightmarish.

It's been about 300 hours of non-N3 gaming, break in DVD running, and movie watching. Panel is now 520 hours old. Almost all IR has disappeared. The only IR still remaining is the upper part of the arc, and it's virtually imperceivable (need to stare at that section of the screen and squint to barely make it out the shadow on a solid yellow test pattern.)

I'm hoping in another 100-200 hours it'll all be gone.
post #2765 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromTheBalcony View Post

Thanks for the valuable info! Do you have any IR still or did it all even out with some varied viewing?

I love this set, by the way.

If you're playing Madden on this set the best thing I can tell you is to switch between 16:9 Standard 1 and 16:9 Standard 2. This moves the ticker up and down. I switch ratios with every posession. It sounds like more of a pain than it really is. That's the only game I take extra precaution with.

For all other gaming, I've stopped worrying. I don't tend to play one game for too long. The other night I played Marvel Ultimate Alliance for maybe 2 hours and played Lost Planet for about 2 the next day followed by a little Crackdown (believe it or not I have a successful career, a wife, and other interests, amazing, huh?!) and nothing was left behind save for a little temp IR.

As far as movies go, I'll watch 2:35 ratios whenever I damn well please! The bars take no more than 10 minutes to go away and I'd say most films I watch are letterboxed.

Like I said, I'm approaching 1000 hours, so I'm feeling pretty good. If it wasn't for Madden things would be dandy for me. NBA 2K7 and NHL 07 cause no such problems.

To recap, I've noticed a huge difference with the amount of time IR stays on my screen. Take it easy at first, then let fly. Me, I used a 20" LCD monitor for my 360 for the first few hundred hours. Didn't really start gaming on the plasma until I reached about 550 hours.

Remember, the aspect ratio switch could be your best friend. If I was to go "all marathon" one night, I'm sure I'd be pressing that button quite a bit.
post #2766 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkaz527 View Post

If you're playing Madden on this set the best thing I can tell you is to switch between 16:9 Standard 1 and 16:9 Standard 2. This moves the ticker up and down. I switch ratios with every posession. It sounds like more of a pain than it really is. That's the only game I take extra precaution with.

....

Like I said, I'm approaching 1000 hours, so I'm feeling pretty good. If it wasn't for Madden things would be dandy for me. NBA 2K7 and NHL 07 cause no such problems.

Not a bad idea...altho since I already have Madden 07 IR, i worry about any playing of it that will put the ticker in the position where the IR persists...

I swear, they put a ridiculous amount of development into AI, moves you will rarely use, and making sure the player's tattoos are authentic, and then they design their game like its only to be played on CRTs!! Damn you EA!!
post #2767 of 2990
Hi everyone -- apologies if this specific question has been answered before. I've searched this and the main px60/600u forums, but it's difficult when your search terms are "used" and "burn-in" :-) -- LOT'S of replies to sort through and I couldn't find the specific answer I'm looking for....

Just looking for a quick answer to this question: if I'm looking at a used/open-box plasma, what's a quick test I could do to check for burn-in?

Here's the context: I can get a pretty killer deal from my local Circuit City on an open-box Panny 42px60u, with 22 months interest-free. Combined with the $100 off for signing up for HDTV service through my local cable (which I was going to do anyway), it's significantly cheaper than any online price I can find for this TV. Considering that I get the benefit of a B&M return policy and the full 1-year manufacturer's warranty, I'm about to jump the gun.

However, I'm obviously paranoid about buying a display TV that has been sitting out on display in "torch" mode for the last couple of months. Thus, my question. What can I do while looking at the TV in the store to test for any burn-in problems? Should I unplug the input cables or change to an unused source input and stare at the blue screen for a while?

Also, if anyone has anyone general thoughts or suggestions on the topic of buying open-box plasmas, or any specific questions I need to make sure to ask the CC drones, I'd love to hear it. Thanks in advance!
post #2768 of 2990
Ideally, you want to somehow be able to display solid colors on the screen, at various settings and distances, in a dark room. Not just one color, but a few.

White, yellow, blue, green, and red. If the TV features a USB port for viewing pictures, you can bring those images on a flash drive.

If it doesn't have a USB port, ask them to connect a DVD player, burn a DVD with those images and view it via that.

You want the room dark, and you should cycle through viewing modes. Some IR isn't visible on torch mode, and is more visible on non-torch mode, and vice versa.

That may not be the easiest thing to do, but it would be comprehensive.
post #2769 of 2990
The Break in DVD should have all the solid colors you need to evaluate if there is any burn in. 60/600s also have SD card slots so you can put images on an SD card to view.

Also check the hours used. Bruzzi FAQ has instructions on how to do this. Use the following rules of thumb. If the set has < 100 used, any burn-in on the screen will likely wash away in the next 1000 hours. If the set has > 1000 and you see burn in, it is less likely for this to wash away.
post #2770 of 2990
The break-in DVD is probably good enough, but some IR caused by white logo's strangely enough will not show easily on some white slides. When I had IR caused by yellow or white elements, I could not easily see them on the white, green, or red slides of the break in DVD.

However, when using a solid yellow slide, they were easily apparent.
post #2771 of 2990
Although early burn in can wash away, it can take a really long time.

Is it worth saving a few hundred dollars to put up with a crappy picture for the initial viewing periods of your TV? A display model that had a logo on it for 50% of the time over 300 hours would take in excess of 750 hours to wash away, and probably closer to 1000 hours to disappear completely.

At 4 hours a day of viewing, that's more than 8 months... 1000 hours of pain for ~500 dollars of savings? Depending on how much you value your picture, I'm willing to wager there would be MANY times you'll say to yourself "I'd pay 50 cents right now to have a perfect picture for an hour"
post #2772 of 2990
If the burn-in is only visible on solid color screens and not during normal programming, then it might be worth the savings. Burn in that is clearly visible during tv programming is what I consider severe burn-in and I'd stay away no matter what the hours used.
post #2773 of 2990
Thanks for the great suggestions so far, very helpful. I printed out the instructions from Bruzzi on how to check hours used -- it took me a few minutes of playing around to decode the hex system, but once I realized it was just a base-16 counting system it made sense.

I'll bring an SD card with some solid color images on it to view on the TV. Both of you have very valid points -- I'll give it a very thorough check for any IR and check different colors before I buy an open-box plasma. Basically, I agree with both of you -- if there's visible IR, it's not worth the savings.... but if there isn't, I think it's a good value.

Any further advice or suggestions is much appreciated. Thanks again!
post #2774 of 2990
I'm setting up a Panasonic TH-42PH9UK 42" commercial plasma as a marketing display, to show a PowerPoint that loops during business hours. The PowerPoint contains two types of slides, each with a logo in a consistent location - it will show a couple slides of one type, then a couple of the other, etc. So there is no logo present constantly in the same spot throughout the day and I've also setup the slide transitions to use animation effects on the slow speed - hoping that it will help prevent the logos from burning in as well.

The plasma has a screensaver that can automatically turn on on a schedule, so I was considering having that run each evening when the office is empty. Would it be better to just turn the plasma off each evening, or let it run with a screensaver or perhaps some fish tank/scenery DVD?

I've never owned a plasma, so the burn-in issue is pretty new to me. Do you have any suggestions on how I should setup a powerpoint to minimize burn-in? Templates are ideal since office staff will be maintaining it and updating the contents with current real estate listings and whatnot.

Thanks!
Matt
post #2775 of 2990
To absolutely guarantee no burn-in, Run the exact same powerpoint in negative screen saver mode for the same number of hours the powerpoint was on in normal mode. So if you run the powerpoint for 8 hours straight during the day, run the same powerpoint in negative for 8 hours at night. This will guarantee you even pixel wear.
post #2776 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by renlopez View Post

To absolutely guarantee no burn-in, Run the exact same powerpoint in negative screen saver mode for the same number of hours the powerpoint was on in normal mode. So if you run the powerpoint for 8 hours straight during the day, run the same powerpoint in negative for 8 hours at night. This will guarantee you even pixel wear.

Good advice. If it is not practical, then it is better to leave your plasma on with constantly changing content (such as a good screen saver) than off.

Can you alternate colors with the logo or make it at least 50% transparent?
post #2777 of 2990
Yeah, ideally to minimize IR and maximize even phosphor wear, a plasma TV should be running 24/7, showing balanced color content at higher then usual settings whenever not in use during the first 1k hours of the set (i.e. break in DVD).

This may not be practical/possible for alot of people though.
post #2778 of 2990
Update: I have been running the break-in DVD combined with Discovery HD Theater content (negligible, very transparent logo every-so-often) over the past 2 weeks and my ESPN logo has faded significantly. It can only be faintly seen on a completely white screen if you know exactly where to look. Hopefully with another 100 hours or so I can knock it out completely. Thanks to everyone for the help and tips!
post #2779 of 2990
Since I am out of the house 7-8 hrs a day, what do people think about breaking in the plasma on discovery hd alone? I am currently using the break in dvd but today, when I got home, for some reason my dvd was stuck on the white screen. I think it stayed that way for about an hour or so. So now i don't really want to use my dvd player (my 360) as a break in device. Since discovery hd has very little logos and runs programs 24/7 i'm thinking that might be the best way. Does anyone see anything wrong with this idea?
post #2780 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by saucz View Post

Since I am out of the house 7-8 hrs a day, what do people think about breaking in the plasma on discovery hd alone? I am currently using the break in dvd but today, when I got home, for some reason my dvd was stuck on the white screen. I think it stayed that way for about an hour or so. So now i don't really want to use my dvd player (my 360) as a break in device. Since discovery hd has very little logos and runs programs 24/7 i'm thinking that might be the best way. Does anyone see anything wrong with this idea?

Though I'm sure to be disagreed with, I think it's an adequate solution. The big difference between any kind of TV programming and a break-in DVD is uncertainty and inconsistency. Running a break-in DVD you know exactly what your TV will be exposed to and can thus gauge how it will affect the TV. Running regular programming will bombard your TV with colors and patterns far less predictable, obviously. However, when it comes to break-in, maintenance and avoiding burn-in or eliminating temporary IR, I still believe there would be no difference between using the two. It's the more serious IR that a break-in DVD will probably have the clear edge on.
post #2781 of 2990
Be careful running the break-in DVD unattended. If your DVD player gets stuck on an all red screen for several hours, it would not be a good thing.
post #2782 of 2990
has anyone ever used discovery hd as their sole source of break in and how did that experience go?
post #2783 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by saucz View Post

has anyone ever used discovery hd as their sole source of break in and how did that experience go?

Perfect.
post #2784 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

Perfect.


perfectly well or perfectly horrible?

well i left this morning with discovery hd on so we'll see how it goes when i get back home. If i find out there is some horrible IR or burn in... it is all on williamr's head LOL. (j\\k)
post #2785 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by saucz View Post

perfectly well or perfectly horrible?

well i left this morning with discovery hd on so we'll see how it goes when i get back home. If i find out there is some horrible IR or burn in... it is all on williamr's head LOL. (j\\k)

I've done the same thing with no issues whatsoever. Discovery runs their very transparent logo every fifteen minutes or so for only about 10-15 seconds. No worries at all with logo burn-in.
post #2786 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by saucz View Post

perfectly well or perfectly horrible?

well i left this morning with discovery hd on so we'll see how it goes when i get back home. If i find out there is some horrible IR or burn in... it is all on williamr's head LOL. (j\\k)

As long as you don't have a power hiccup or cable problem, you're good to go.
post #2787 of 2990
I've also found that pbs hd works just as well. Pbs NEVER shows it's logo and all it's commercials are HD. Might even be better for break in than Discovery because Discovery tends to show alot of greens.
post #2788 of 2990
Chalk up another true believer in the break-in DVD!

I burned my first ever DVD to get started as I await installation, and because I am an idiot, I hit the wrong button and left the service menu on for hours 98-115. Luckily, the menu is opaque gray, and 40 hours of the DVD later, and I cannot see any remnant of the shadow left behind!
post #2789 of 2990
One question. I feel like i'm going crazy. When I check for burn in, I just turn off my cable box and look at the dark blank screen. But i dunno if my eyes are decieveing me but i feel like I see very VERY faint outlines. Actually they're not even outlines but more like spots that are a bit lighter than other spots. Is this normal?
post #2790 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by saucz View Post

One question. I feel like i'm going crazy. When I check for burn in, I just turn off my cable box and look at the dark blank screen. But i dunno if my eyes are decieveing me but i feel like I see very VERY faint outlines. Actually they're not even outlines but more like spots that are a bit lighter than other spots. Is this normal?

I can't comment for anyone else, but I get a lot of the same stuff. I have some mild IR of the EA logo from Madden 07, and then I have some barely perceivable IR of the play-selection screen outlines. You chalk the difference between their ability to be perceived to how long they're on the screen and the contrast between the logo/outline and the background when they are.

The important thing is that it doesn't affect your normal viewing, but only shows up when you're checking for burn-in. I think it's very normal, but the fact that you're not even sure that you see them kinda shows how minor it is. Don't go crazy about it, we're with you! Haha
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