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MASTER BURN-IN/BREAK-IN THREAD: ALL POSTS HERE ONLY! - Page 98  

post #2911 of 2990
when i turned on my plasma today(before i turn anythingelse on) the screen was still kinda black. I saw all the movies lists, channel logos and everything else that usually there. Is this burn in? i have a 50 inch panny
post #2912 of 2990
I searched the forum and couldn't find an answer to my question.... I have a Panny 42px75u. After Break-In, can I expect the PQ to improve? Specifically, do the brightness and sharpness levels of the panel improve over time?
post #2913 of 2990
I am breaking my samsung in which i bought today , just left Troy on repeat shuffle chapters, will do that every night for 2 weeks using different dvds, hopefully it will break in good then
post #2914 of 2990
Couldn't understand one thing. CRTs and plasmas use the same phosphors. Why no CRT TV needs any break in, or rarely ever has burn-ins? What's the difference?
That's what I've found on the Net:

"The longevity problem comes from the fact that the light-emitting efficiency of the phosphor coating decreases over time—that is, when a phosphor is stimulated by a photon, it releases less and less light. The problem is much worse in a plasma set than in a CRT because the plasma’s phosphors exist in a hostile environment; the electron beam in a CRT is much kinder to phosphors than are a plasma’s hot gases. In a plasma display, the contrast ratio—the difference between lit and unlit picture elements—drops quickly under normal use, as much as 50 percent in four to five years. At that point, the television image appears noticeably washed-out.

Manufacturers today claim 60 000 hours of use before the brightness falls by half (based on a few hundred hours of testing). Contrast, however, is more important than brightness. Recent tests by market research firm IDC, in Framingham, Mass., measured a 13 percent decline in the darkness of the black of a typical plasma television after four weeks of use; after five years of use, such a rapid decline could lead to blacks displaying as light grays".


So, it's only 1 to 5 years after all... Kind of disappointing.
post #2915 of 2990
I was able to access the Service Menu in my Vizio VP50 plasma. But I'm wondering -- is there some place in the Service Menu to find out how many hours of operation I have so far (for break-in purposes)? It sounds like other brands of plasmas do that, but can I find it on a Vizio?
post #2916 of 2990
Regarding the FPT5084 (which is in the mail!), I read in the FAQ online that there was no need to break in the TV. Does anybody want to refute this?
post #2917 of 2990
i love this tv im using it mainly for every thing gaming sport partys tv movies but this dvd that i have to download i dont think my dvd player supports it so is there anothere way to break in my plasma and if not how much for a dvd that supports it
post #2918 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by fogey View Post

Couldn't understand one thing. CRTs and plasmas use the same phosphors. Why no CRT TV needs any break in, or rarely ever has burn-ins? What's the difference?
That's what I've found on the Net:

"The longevity problem comes from the fact that the light-emitting efficiency of the phosphor coating decreases over timethat is, when a phosphor is stimulated by a photon, it releases less and less light. The problem is much worse in a plasma set than in a CRT because the plasma's phosphors exist in a hostile environment; the electron beam in a CRT is much kinder to phosphors than are a plasma's hot gases. In a plasma display, the contrast ratiothe difference between lit and unlit picture elementsdrops quickly under normal use, as much as 50 percent in four to five years. At that point, the television image appears noticeably washed-out.

Manufacturers today claim 60 000 hours of use before the brightness falls by half (based on a few hundred hours of testing). Contrast, however, is more important than brightness. Recent tests by market research firm IDC, in Framingham, Mass., measured a 13 percent decline in the darkness of the black of a typical plasma television after four weeks of use; after five years of use, such a rapid decline could lead to blacks displaying as light grays".


So, it's only 1 to 5 years after all... Kind of disappointing.


Can you provide a link to said research?

I'd think the plasma community would go ape sh7t over a declaration that a plasma tv's shelf life is 1 to 5 years?!
post #2919 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfoxm View Post

Can you provide a link to said research?

I'd think the plasma community would go ape sh7t over a declaration that a plasma tv's shelf life is 1 to 5 years?!

Here is a link to an IEEE article from Nov 06 that references that IDC report. http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/nov06/4697
post #2920 of 2990
My 42PX75U is scheduled for delivery tomorrow morning. I'm PUMPED!! I'm going to start breaking it in immediately and am wondering what settings I should use. I will be using the break-in CD.

Thanks,
Dave
post #2921 of 2990
Thanks for that link.

So basically, why would anyone buy a plasma then?

Damn I'm so confused!!!!
post #2922 of 2990
interesting read.. though there's always a question as to who funds this type of research.. I guess we need to be a little cynical/critical.

at the end of the day, I'd say most 'normal' people just get what looks good. I doubt they really truly care one way or another about the differences between LCOS/DLP and/or plasma/lcd etc etc...

the markets will continually decide
post #2923 of 2990
That's one example of critical thinking:

spectrum ieee org/jan07/4847 (sorry - cannot post urls yet - type dots instead of hiatuses).

After some further research I've found out that phosphors do not age in linear mode. Usually it takes from 100 to 300 hours untill it reaches stability and starts ageing more and more slowly.
post #2924 of 2990
is it acceptable to run the break in disk ,say 24 hours a day,for the first 4-5 days,to get the 100+ hours done.or is this a bad idea.
post #2925 of 2990
I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I don't think that's a good idea. Your TV can get very hot. The way I broke mine in was 10-hour sessions with two 2-hour breaks per day.
post #2926 of 2990
On Page 30 of the Samsung LCD model LNT4661F, it states that watching 4x3
tv longer than 2 hrs "may cause burn-in". Speaking to Samsung, they say
it is the black bars on each side of the 4x3 picture that burn-in.

Has anyone heard of this?

With normal cable channels, you still have a lot of 4x3 programming.
post #2927 of 2990
Hello, I have been reading posts for a while and needed to chime in on something. I not an expert on the subject, but I have some observations. I work for a major electronic retail chain and we have plasmas and lcds and lcos (SXRD) and DLP tvs. We have had plasmas on the wall for years and play sports, espn, SD programming HD programming, some looped feeds, others off a Sat. We never change on behavior on what we watch and could care less about sports tickers or logos on screen or anything else for that matter. We don't calibrate the tvs or change the settings unless customers want to see them. we take from the box to display and in over a year and a half I have seen burn in on one plasma out of the hundred or so we have displayed in this time span, and have seen more stuck pixels on the lcds we have displayed. I just think that burn-in has lessened with the newer plasma technology that has come out compaired to that of a few years ago. I think what freaks people out is the image retention that might occur no and then that freaks people out into thinking that they might get burn in.

Sorry for the long post, if you have any uestions about tvs feel free to ask.
post #2928 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamajama View Post

On Page 30 of the Samsung LCD model LNT4661F, it states that watching 4x3
tv longer than 2 hrs "may cause burn-in". Speaking to Samsung, they say
it is the black bars on each side of the 4x3 picture that burn-in.

Has anyone heard of this?

With normal cable channels, you still have a lot of 4x3 programming.

Hmmm...I didn't think LCDs were susceptible to burn-in. If this were a plasma, then black bars wouldn't cause burn-in, because they wouldn't be displaying anything on them. What could occur with a lot of time spent watching with black bars is that the middle portion of the screen would age more than the sides. This might cause the sides of the screen to appear brighter than the rest of the screen.
post #2929 of 2990
A technique that was recommended to me was to display an 80 IRE full screen field overnight. So, on my video essentials disc, I found a 75 IRE full screen field and I am playing it. Do you think this is a good idea for break in? It fills the whole screen with this solid 75 ire white field.

Stefan
post #2930 of 2990
just outta curiosity...what happens if you don't break-in your plasma?

i've heard everything from... i risk having motion blur in the future, to... burn-in.. to.. poeple telling me not to bother breaking it in at all..

the general consensus seems to be break-in is a must...

i broke mine in...but i was just under 200 hrs by the time i started to turn my contrast levels up
post #2931 of 2990
Noticed that most Blu Ray/HD-DVD movies still display black bars.

Any recommended Blu Ray content out there that fills up the whole 16:9 screen for use during the break in period?

Thanks.
post #2932 of 2990
Is turning down the contrast and brightness for the initial break in only, or for the lifetime of the display itself?
post #2933 of 2990
When I watch crank on my tv I don't remember seeing any bars.
post #2934 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrasher8 View Post

Noticed that most Blu Ray/HD-DVD movies still display black bars.

Any recommended Blu Ray content out there that fills up the whole 16:9 screen for use during the break in period?

Thanks.

They display black bars because they still aren't exactly the dimensions of the 16:9 screen. most movies aspect ratio is 2.35:1 while our new tvs are 1.78:1. So, for most movies there will be black bars, but they will take up a smaller percentage of the screen than they did on an old tube tv because the aspect ratios of the HD screen and movie content are more similar.
post #2935 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRISCKY View Post

Is turning down the contrast and brightness for the initial break in only, or for the lifetime of the display itself?

just low contrast/brightness during your 100-200hr break-in period
post #2936 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRISCKY View Post

Is turning down the contrast and brightness for the initial break in only, or for the lifetime of the display itself?

Don't think brightness matters much, just turn down the contrast. For example, if you watch something in aspect ratio 2.35:1, black bars are the part of the picture. When you crank up brightness, those bars become brighter too, so the possibility of uneven ageing of the phosphors doesn't increase a bit. But when you turn up a contrast, black bars become darker and the rest of the screen brighter, so the central part wears off more rapidly than the areas covered by black bars.
post #2937 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by fogey View Post

Don't think brightness matters much, just turn down the contrast. For example, if you watch something in aspect ratio 2.35:1, black bars are the part of the picture. When you crank up brightness, those bars become brighter too, so the possibility of uneven ageing of the phosphors doesn't increase a bit. But when you turn up a contrast, black bars become darker and the rest of the screen brighter, so the central part wears off more rapidly than the areas covered by black bars.

NO. You want to turn down BOTH....

Zero out Contrast (picture) and Brightness.

The idea is to gently excite the phosphors, brightness directly affects the amount the phosphors are being excited.

YOU DON"T WANT ANY BLACK BARS if you can avoid them during the intial 100-200 hours. That means zoom in on movies so there are no bars on top/bottom. That means wide/just/zoom regular TV so there are no side bars. The idea being to evenly excit the panel's phosphors.
Some will say that's extreeme. That just watch what-ever and keep settings down. Others say no need to even turn things down, just enjoy the TV.
That's a personal choice, that I decided was in favor of being extra cautious for the first week. Big deal over the lifetime of the panel.
Another option is to watch what-ever on any settings and in native view, then, when not watching, switch to HD or other screen filling source and let that run at zero settings to even out everything.

Again, if you are trying to gently awaken the new phosphors, turn down both picture AND brightness.
post #2938 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by EchoTony View Post

NO. You want to turn down BOTH....

Zero out Contrast (picture) and Brightness.

The idea is to gently excite the phosphors, brightness directly affects the amount the phosphors are being excited.

YOU DON"T WANT ANY BLACK BARS if you can avoid them during the intial 100-200 hours. That means zoom in on movies so there are no bars on top/bottom. That means wide/just/zoom regular TV so there are no side bars. The idea being to evenly excit the panel's phosphors.
Some will say that's extreeme. That just watch what-ever and keep settings down. Others say no need to even turn things down, just enjoy the TV.
That's a personal choice, that I decided was in favor of being extra cautious for the first week. Big deal over the lifetime of the panel.
Another option is to watch what-ever on any settings and in native view, then, when not watching, switch to HD or other screen filling source and let that run at zero settings to even out everything.

Again, if you are trying to gently awaken the new phosphors, turn down both picture AND brightness.

The key word in a problem of burn-in is UNEVEN ageing of the phosphors. Contrast makes blacks blacker and the whites whiter, so high contrast should be avoided, at least for a while. Brightnes, on the other hand, makes blacks brighter, as well as whites, so there's no increasing of uneven-ness here. But sure thing, the more you turn up the brightness, the faster your TV's phosphors age, all of them. Which means that even with brightness one should be reasonable.
post #2939 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by fogey View Post

The key word in a problem of burn-in is UNEVEN ageing of the phosphors. Contrast makes blacks blacker and the whites whiter, so high contrast should be avoided, at least for a while. Brightnes, on the other hand, makes blacks brighter, as well as whites, so there's no increasing of uneven-ness here. But sure thing, the more you turn up the brightness, the faster your TV's phosphors age, all of them. Which means that even with brightness one should be reasonable.

I agree with you that exciting all the phosphors as evenly as possible is the best method to avoid burn-in. And thus, what you say is true.

But the idea of break-in isn't only about avoiding burn-in. It's about treating the phosphors nicely, when they are most likely to have lasting damage, and to hopefully extend the overall life of the panel's phosphors improving the long term performance. It follows that keeping both the brightness and contrast down during the first 100 - 200 hours of use will help them age gracefully.
post #2940 of 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by fogey View Post

The key word in a problem of burn-in is UNEVEN ageing of the phosphors. Contrast makes blacks blacker and the whites whiter, so high contrast should be avoided, at least for a while. Brightnes, on the other hand, makes blacks brighter, as well as whites, so there's no increasing of uneven-ness here. But sure thing, the more you turn up the brightness, the faster your TV's phosphors age, all of them. Which means that even with brightness one should be reasonable.

Actually, no.

What throws people off are the misnomers 'brightness' and 'contrast'. To
clarify things for yourself, think of brightness as 'Black level' and of
contrast as 'White level'. which is what they really are. Turning black
level up does not materially make whites brighter. Turning white level
up does not materially make blacks brighter.

The purpose of break in is to evenly excite the phosphors at low levels.
At a given white level setting, reducing black level increases contrast,
which is not what you want for break in.

The advice given earlier, to run break in at less than 50% contrast
setting is reasonable. But, I would leave the brightness setting as is.

-- Ron
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