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Official JVC LT-40FH96 1080p LCD HDTV Thread - Page 2

post #31 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHDTV? View Post

Well for me it would be worth it. Go to any Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. and look a 37" Sharp (they may not have G7U, but all the 37" are the same except for speaker placement and color of the case). Be sure to look at the viewing angle, the colors, and the black levels. You may even see a white haze on the screen during all type of environments (not just dark scenes). My sister has the Sharp 45" 1080p LCD (LC-45GD6U) and it suffers from what I describe above. You will not see these issues with the LT-40FH96 as it has amazing color saturation, black levels, and a wide viewing angle. But $800 is alot of money, so be sure to look at both before you make your decision.

thanks for the info. it's very helpful!
i have a meeting up in Manhattan (next week i think), so unless i make a purchase by then, i'll go down to J&R & check it out, that store is toy heaven... lol
post #32 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by algaray View Post

Were you able to compare your JVC to the Sony Bravia 40" XBR? Did you call JVC or J&R about the computer 1080p hookup?

I can't do a direct comparison, but I was at a Circuit City last month and I do remember one LCD display that stood out from the rest and was a Bravia (can't remember if it was 40", 32", or the 26"). I remember that the color were very good compared to the others and I watched it for a while waiting for a dark scene (which of course did not happen), so I can't make a comparsion on the black level. I also cannot make a comparison on the viewing angle because I was not paying that close attention.

I did see the higher end Sony LCD at CES last January (the 50" and 60" Qualia) and what was on display was horrible. Now, I'm not sure if it was the displays or the transfer of the clip (Spiderman 2) from a Prototype Blu-Ray, but Spiderman's colors were a splotchy orange/red with macroblocking. I was shocked that they would put that on a display with thousands of people walking by because it made the display look bad. I do remember the the brightness level and viewing angle were good though.

I guess I might have a bias opinion now that I own one, but the LT-40FH96 is the best LCD HDTV I have seen. I got really lucky buying it sight unseen to take advantage of J&R cheap pre-order price (their price is still cheap) and I'm extremely happy. I am a bit upset that I convinced my sister to buy the Sharp 3 months back when she could have this one now for about the same price or less, but that was the best LCD available at a good normal HD price range (i.e. Qualia too expensive, etc.).

As for computer hookup, it not that really important to me. The 1080p connection maybe an issue when Blu-Ray or HD-DVD comes out, but I guess I'll have to live with it or hope for a firmware upgrade for the HDMI.
post #33 of 1181
Anyone know what the response time is?
post #34 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHDTV? View Post

...
I guess the downer for a lot of people here about the LT-40FH96 is its computer application. According to the manual, "HDMI jack x 2 Note: The Digital-In Terminal is not compatible with pictures signals of a personal computer" (page 20), so no hooking up a computer over HDMI (even thought I have not tried it yet). Also, the 15-pin D-SUB can only support 640x480 (60 Hz Vertical, 31.5 Horizontal) and 1024x768 (60 Hz Vertical, 48.4 Horizontal) and according to the manual, cannot support Apple Macintosh (page 25).

That seems like an incredible blunder - a 1080P display not supporting a digital 1080P input. Can this be true? I was hoping that this, or another emerging, product could replace my Westinghouse 1080P LCD before my return policy expires (too many little problems with the Westi), but this deficiency is a deal-breaker for me. Thanks for the review, though.
post #35 of 1181
While the manual does state 640x480 and 1024x768 computer support, I see nothing about not accepting 1080p signal from an HMDI source. It also doesn't mention how it displays 1080i information.
post #36 of 1181
i just posted this question to JVC tech support & they are supposed to get back with me on this whole 1080P thing, will let you guys know , if i ever receive an email back, that is... :-)

for me it basically comes to price, pic quality, features.
the price is good
Pic quality: sounds from what people are saying that it is excellent (hopefully will have a chance next week to check it out myself @ J&R)

features: thinking of the near future - i want to know that when i buy the blu-ray dvd, it will play & not say not compatible... 2 HDMI's are great, that's what turned me off with the Sony Bravia series, great picture!! but lack of connectivity, i.e 1-HDMI, NO firewire. so if for example you have satellite hooked via HDMI &buy the PS3 when it comes out and want to use it with HDMI (for games & blu-ray) you are out of luck unless you buy a receiver with HDMI or an HDMI switch box, which are not that great, so i think that the wealth of connectivity is a big plus (@ least 4 me)
on my current LCD i view 720P & 1080i & it looks great so i can survive without 1080P BUT want to make sure i have enough room to connect stuff & that the set will be compatible with whatever is coming out in the next 2-3 years
post #37 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by notreally View Post

While the manual does state 640x480 and 1024x768 computer support, I see nothing about not accepting 1080p signal from an HMDI source. It also doesn't mention how it displays 1080i information.

It is not a flaw with the LT-40FH96, but with the HDMI specification implementation. LCD1080 started this thread below last month and looks like the bandwith required for 1080p (with DRM requirements) will be in HDMI 1.3 spec with B connector. At most the LT-40FH96 has the HDMI version 1.2 spec (with A connector, the one out now), which was approved in August.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6&page=1&pp=30
post #38 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHDTV? View Post

It is not a flaw with the LT-40FH96, but with the HDMI specification implementation. LCD1080 started this thread below last month and looks like the bandwith required for 1080p (with DRM requirements) will be in HDMI 1.3 spec with B connector. At most the LT-40FH96 has the HDMI version 1.2 spec (with A connector, the one out now), which was approved in August.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6&page=1&pp=30

So pretty much the only way to get a model that can input 1920x1080 from a PC is to find one with DVI?
post #39 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHDTV? View Post

It is not a flaw with the LT-40FH96, but with the HDMI specification implementation. LCD1080 started this thread below last month and looks like the bandwith required for 1080p (with DRM requirements) will be in HDMI 1.3 spec with B connector. At most the LT-40FH96 has the HDMI version 1.2 spec (with A connector, the one out now), which was approved in August.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6&page=1&pp=30

Yeah I'm not sure that's necessarily correct, Tony. The last post in the thread I started says that waiting for HDMI 1.3 is not necessary for 1080p/60. He notes that the basics for 1080p are already a part of the spec for HDMI 1.1 and that the manufacturers only need to implement them. See his post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post

There's a whole bunch of stuff required for 1080p/60. The specs need to support it. The TMDS transmitters need to support it. The manufacturer needs to be able to process 1080p data. etc etc.

You can have the latest and greatest Silicon Image chipset, if your device doesn't spew out EDID for 1080p, then the devices can't autonegotiate properly. If the device refuses to process 1080p, the chipset doesn't matter.

The point wasn't whether a "spec" would automatically get you 1080p. It obviously doesn't especially when 1080p is an optional resolution in the spec. The point is you don't necessarily have to wait for HDMI 1.3, the basics are already there in 1.0 and 1.1, people just have to implement it.
post #40 of 1181
If you have a 1080p source, convert the source output to 1080i, and the display will upconvert to 1080p. Currently, for TV broadcast 1080p/60 is a display model only and it may be a very long time before 1080p is broadcast. I'm not sure there is a major loss to 99.99% of the folks with this unit. HP DLP is currently the only set that will accept 1080p and computers are the only current source for that resolution.
post #41 of 1181
I can tell you that my Sharp LC-45GX6U is doing 1920x1080@60 over DVI *with* HDCP on a single-link DVI connection. In the HDMI 1.0 spec there is support for 1080p during HDMI negotiation.

I think it is quite possible the current HDMI chipsets do not support 1080p, but I don't believe the reason for that is the HDMI spec revision.

If you look at section 6.3.2 of the HDMI 1.0 informational spec:

http://www.hdmi.com/pdf/HDMISpecInfo...nalVersion.pdf

you will notice 1920x1080p@60Hz is listed as an optional video format timing.

Further HDMI connections have 165MHz video bandwidth. This is same as DVI single-link. Further, for my Sharp LC-45GX6U, 148.5Mhz bandwidth is necessary for 1920x1080p@60Hz. Since the HDMI spec has the video format listed and the bandwidth of HDMI is capable of supporting 1080p, I conclude that current HDMI spec is capable of support 1080p.

Again, it is quite possible everyone uses the same HDMI chipset and this particular implementation does not support 1080p, and once these guys get around to implementing an HDMI 1.3 chipset, they will have added 1080p support, but that is different than saying the current HDMI spec does not support 1080p. It is saying the most popular *implementations* of the current HDMI spec do not support 1080p, which does not preclude a more advanced implementation of the current spec from supporting 1080p.
post #42 of 1181
Doesn't the '60' refer to frames per second?
post #43 of 1181
Great Thread!!

Any guess when this unit might hit my $2500 price threshold??
post #44 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by notreally View Post

Doesn't the '60' refer to frames per second?

Depends on the context. If the source is interlaced, 60Hz refers to 60 *fields* per sec. If the source is progessive, 60Hz refers to 60 *frames* per sec. You could also specifically say 60 fields per sec or 60 frames per sec.
post #45 of 1181
I just looked at the last page of manual/specifications.

it says: "... Specifications subject to change without notice.
The open source software is embedded in this product. For more information,
http://software.jvc.com/opensource/l.../download.html ..."
anyone knows what that means?
post #46 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post

Again, it is quite possible everyone uses the same HDMI chipset and this particular implementation does not support 1080p, and once these guys get around to implementing an HDMI 1.3 chipset, they will have added 1080p support, but that is different than saying the current HDMI spec does not support 1080p. It is saying the most popular *implementations* of the current HDMI spec do not support 1080p, which does not preclude a more advanced implementation of the current spec from supporting 1080p.

Yep, that's why I said implementation (and I hope why you * implementation). In the LCD1080's thread, the guys there were saying it is in the previous specs (as you had said) but basically nobody is implementing until version 1.3. In hope that if this unit doesn't currently support 1080p over HDMI, that it will with a future firmware update (if it can be).
post #47 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaip View Post

I just looked at the last page of manual/specifications.

it says: "... Specifications subject to change without notice.
The open source software is embedded in this product. For more information,
http://software.jvc.com/opensource/l.../download.html ..."
anyone knows what that means?

According to the manual, you can update the model's software with a SD card (page 73). What can actually be updated is the question.
post #48 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahicks View Post

Great Thread!!

Any guess when this unit might hit my $2500 price threshold??

I'll guess at least a year or more. Most are selling above MSRP (which is $4499.99) because they were basing it on previous MSRP of $4999.99. Again, that why I jumped on the preorder sight unseen because it was not far off from your price.
post #49 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaip View Post

I just looked at the last page of manual/specifications.

it says: "... Specifications subject to change without notice.
The open source software is embedded in this product. For more information,
http://software.jvc.com/opensource/l.../download.html ..."
anyone knows what that means?

Wait a second, when I took a closer look at this link it shows ATSC and CC together in the URL. Eventhough the link doesn't exist on the JVC site (I know it's in the manual), I hope it is not just a future link for updating Close Caption over ATSC signals.
post #50 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHDTV? View Post

Yep, that's why I said implementation (and I hope why you * implementation). In the LCD1080's thread, the guys there were saying it is in the previous specs (as you had said) but basically nobody is implementing until version 1.3. In hope that if this unit doesn't currently support 1080p over HDMI, that it will with a future firmware update (if it can be).

Actually I don't think it is true that nobody is implementing until 1.3.

HP says they have 1080p over their HDMI right now. HDMI 1.3 is not finalized yet. I conclude they simply implemented the optional video formats already present in HDMI 1.0/1.1.

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/sh...e=L1798A%23ABA

Also you mentioned there wasn't enough bandwidth in current HDMI. I also do not believe that is true, because current HDMI is 165MHz and only 148.5MHz is needed for 1920x1080p@60Hz. This is for single-link connections. Thus you do not need HDMI B (dual-link) connector for 1080p.

Further, there are displays like Sceptre which have HDMI ports which accept 1080p. This is using single-link.
post #51 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post

Depends on the context. If the source is interlaced, 60Hz refers to 60 *fields* per sec. If the source is progessive, 60Hz refers to 60 *frames* per sec. You could also specifically say 60 fields per sec or 60 frames per sec.

Do Progressive displays show interlaced information? If a set is 720p60, doesn't the '60' refer to frames, not fields?
post #52 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHDTV? View Post

Wait a second, when I took a closer look at this link it shows ATSC and CC together in the URL. Eventhough the link doesn't exist on the JVC site (I know it's in the manual), I hope it is not just a future link for updating Close Caption over ATSC signals.

if i understand you correctly, you were not able to follow the link i posted. if that is the case, i re-checked the link & verified that it lead to a page.
i wonder if this means that updates to firmware (such as HDMI, etc.) are available, or that they are just providing ability to customize menus & that's it

Below, is a copy of text on that page:


Welcome to 04 JVC D-TV Linux Download Page

This URL is prepared to disclose the software licensed under the GNU General Public License (GNU GPL) and GNU Lesser General Public License (GNU LGPL) in our products with Linux technologies.

Such software may be available, and redistributed and/or modified under the terms of the GNU GPL and GNU LGPL as published by the Free Software Foundation.
Those who are interested in such software may download it here subject to the terms and conditions of the GNU GPL and/or GNU LGPL.

busybox.tar.bz2
glibc.tar.gz
e2fsprogs.tar.gz
linux_kernel.tar.gz

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Link to the GNU General Public License
Link to the GNU Lesser General Public License


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: There is no warranty, either express or implied, as to the software available and/or listed on this Web site, including but not limited to the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose.
post #53 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post

Actually I don't think it is true that nobody is implementing until 1.3.

HP says they have 1080p over their HDMI right now. HDMI 1.3 is not finalized yet. I conclude they simply implemented the optional video formats already present in HDMI 1.0/1.1.

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/sh...e=L1798A%23ABA

Also you mentioned there wasn't enough bandwidth in current HDMI. I also do not believe that is true, because current HDMI is 165MHz and only 148.5MHz is needed for 1920x1080p@60Hz. This is for single-link connections. Thus you do not need HDMI B (dual-link) connector for 1080p.

Further, there are displays like Sceptre which have HDMI ports which accept 1080p. This is using single-link.

I guess that is good news. I'm unable to test to test any computer stuff over HDMI because I have been only using labtops for the last 4-5 years and have no access to DVI computers, but that comment in the manual about not being compatible with computer signal doesn't look good (I'm assuming that means any 1080p device too). I guess we'll have to wait to see what shaip gets from the JVC rep.
post #54 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaip View Post

if i understand you correctly, you were not able to follow the link i posted. if that is the case, i re-checked the link & verified that it lead to a page.
i wonder if this means that updates to firmware (such as HDMI, etc.) are available, or that they are just providing ability to customize menus & that's it

Thanks. When I went there last night, it was not up. I was able to follow it today. I hope it is not just menu stuff. I guess we will find out later.
post #55 of 1181
There is a Sceptre 37" 1080p LCD from Costco that has only one HDMI input and that input accepts all the video modes as well as computer modes up to 1920x1080/60Hz. I think you have to change the mode from Video to PC in the set's menu. However, this means that there are clearly 1080p HDMI inputs in the market today. Why JVC cannot do what Sceptre has already done is perplexing.
post #56 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHDTV? View Post

I guess that is good news. I'm unable to test to test any computer stuff over HDMI because I have been only using labtops for the last 4-5 years and have no access to DVI computers, but that comment in the manual about not being compatible with computer signal doesn't look good (I'm assuming that means any 1080p device too). I guess we'll have to wait to see what shaip gets from the JVC rep.

well, i received an email from JVC rep wich basically refereed me to a page on the user manual that talks about how to change aspect ratios on the display (which is not what i asked) so i emailed back & no response yet, i also tried to call support on the phone & was holding for over 40 min' , if i do buy this display, i sure hope i don't need to talk to JVC's tech support...

will keep you guys posted as soon as i hear back from them
Shaip

p.s. Below is the quote from the page they refereed me to (i belive P#69):


My question (in short) was: On the site & press release, it is mentioned that this set is capable of handling 1080P but there is no mention in the manual, so I am not if this TV is able to handle this

Reply:
Thank you for your recent e-mail inquiry to JVC.

Notes:
You can also choose the size by pressing the π buttons.
When you change the aspect ratio or signal, reset the picture position to center.
You can also access the FRONT PANEL CONTROL screen by using the MENU button
on the side of the TV instead of the remote control. It appears between INITIAL SETUP
and PICTURE ADJUST screen, and it has VIDEO STATUS and ASPECT menus. Choose
ASPECT by pressing Menu on the side panel and choose a mode by using the CHANNEL
+/- buttons ( √ OPERATE ® ).
"SLIM" can only be displayed when the signal is ATSC (480i or 480p).
"FULL NATIVE" can only be displayed when the signal is ATSC or 1080i.
If the televison receives a 16:9 signal from your HDMI device, the aspect mode will turn to
FULL automatically. If the television receives a 4:3 signal from your HDMI device when you
are in FULL aspect mode, it will return to REGULAR aspect mode. If you change the aspect
mode after the televison changed it to FULL automatically, the televison will change to the
aspect mode you choosed.
post #57 of 1181
Could someone please try their computer with this and report back. Thanks, Jay
post #58 of 1181
Or an xbox360...
post #59 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by notreally View Post

Do Progressive displays show interlaced information? If a set is 720p60, doesn't the '60' refer to frames, not fields?

Fixed pixel displays are naturally progressive. They will deinterlace interlaced sources prior to displaying on the panel. Usually when people say 720p@60Hz, 1080i@60Hz, or 1080p@60Hz they are describing the source video format.

For LCDs, the output of the panel is probably always 60Hz. Since LCDs deinterlace 1080i prior to display, that means the output is 60 frames per second, but the input is still 1080i@60Hz, which is 60 *fields* per sec. If your source was 720p@60Hz, then the source and the output would both be 60 frames per sec (an no deinterlacing would occur)
post #60 of 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeyes909 View Post

Could someone please try their computer with this and report back. Thanks, Jay

If you don't mind a 15-pin D-SUB test, then I can try it this weekend (don't have time during the week). Like I said before, I don't have a DVI computer (just labtops) nor a DVI/HDMI cable to test it out with, so maybe one of the other guys can test that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mozumder View Post

Or an xbox360...

As for the Xbox360, that's going to have to wait until January when they are in regular availability. I doubt I'll see one before the end of the Holiday season.
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