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The Official AVS HDTV Recording Synopsis - Old

post #1 of 68
11/27/05 at 2:28pm
Thread Starter 
The Basics
HDTV can be recorded in these ways:
· D-VHS
· HDTV Tuner PC Card
· Firewire Source to PC, Mac
· USB Source to PC, Mac
· HDTV DVR from Cable, DBS, OTA
· Blu-ray burner
· HD Camcorder

....from five potential sources:
· Digital Television (DTV)
· Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS)
· Cable
· C/Ku Band Satellite
· Live to video



D-VHS
Digital VHS is capable of recording and playing back the full 19+ Mbps data stream of ATSC HDTV broadcasts, including Dolby Digital 5.1 audio. There are different varieties of D-VHS decks, but all are essentially ‘bit buckets’, capable of recording HDTV and playing it back identically to the original broadcast. Typcially, an outboard source provided the HDTV signal via Firewire to the D-VHS deck, with only one D-VHS unit having a built-in DTV tuner. This approach also allows for HDTV copies using Firewire recording from D-VHS to D-VHS, D-Theater (prerecorded movies) excepted.

· Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U $749 ($549)
· Mitsubishi HS-HD1100U $549 ($395)
· JVC HM-DH40000 $999 ($537, D-Theater, component video)
· Marantz MV 8300 $1599 ($999, D-Theater, component video)
· JVC SR-VD400US (Pro D-Theater)
· JVC SR-VDA300US (Pro D-Theater Master Deck)
· JVC HM-DH5U $799 (HDMI, D-Theater)
· JVC HM-DT100U $1499 (HDMI, DTV tuner, D-Theater)
· Marantz MV8300 $1099 (Same as JVC HM-DH40000)
· Panasonic PV-HD1000
· JVC HM-DH30000



Firewire sources for HDTV Recording
· Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, Pace - Digital Cable STB's
· 169time
After market modification for adding Firewire HD output to specific STB’s.
http://www.169time.com/
Discontinued
· Mitsubishi HD6000 (DTV & Cable)
· MIT MDR-200 (DTV)
· Specific Mitsubishi integrated HDTV’s (DTV)
· Mitsubishi HDTV's compatable and equipped with the Promise Module (DTV)
· Specific Hitachi integrated HDTV’s (DTV)
· Samsung SIR-T165 (DTV)
· Key Digital KD-FIRE1080P HD Hanna $2999
http://www.keydigital.com/lprodi.asp?Ic=KDFIRE1080P
· Pioneer Plasma HDTV w/ Media Receiver CableCARD
· Various Firewire equipped HDTV's
· Panasonic TU-DST50 & TU-DST51 (DTV)
· Sony DHG-M55CV (Cablevision, still available)
· Mitsubishi HD5000 (DTV)
· LG LST3410a
NOTE: Not all Firewire equipped HDTV's can output HDTV via Firewire. See the manufacturers specifications for details.
Discontinued 8VSB HD Source:
· Dish 5000 w/HD Modulator



USB sources for HDTV Recording
· Nextcom R5000-HD
After market modification for adding USB HD output to specific STB’s.
http://www.nextcomwireless.com/r5000/home.htm

· USB DTV Tuners
Capable of DTV reception, recording and playback. For in depth discussion of this aspect of HDTV recording, please see the AVS HTPC Forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26



HDTV Tuner PC / Mac Cards
Capable of DTV reception, recording and playback. For in depth discussion of this aspect of HDTV recording, please see the AVS HTPC Forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26



Firewire Source to Windows & Vista PC
For in depth discussion of this aspect of HDTV recording, please see DVHSTool and other topics in the HDTV Recorders Forum.
PC recording of HDTV is made possible by Microsoft Windows XP & Vista native support for IEEE1394. The PC can be used as both a storage/ retreival device and a playback device. The PC's peripherals (hard drive, DVD drive) are used to store the HDTV signal that comes from compatible sources. Used as a retreival device the stored HDTV signal is played back through the IEEE1394 to a display device or other storage / communication device. Used as a playback device, various hardware and software HDTV signal decoders can be used to present HDTV video and audio for viewing.

To use the IEEE1394 interface in WinXP, specific support of the partiular model of unit with the IEEE1394 port is required. That is, the presence of a IEEE1394 port doesn't imply compatibility with Windows XP. Various drivers and applications software are required and available to use the JVC and Mitsubishi DVHS decks with Windows XP. For example, even though one "OTA only" model of the Samsung HDTV has IEEE1394, it cannot be used with Windows XP since there are no mating drivers. The 169time equipped DTC100 can be used with Windows XP.

My sincere thanks to AVS member h2ofun for providing this information.



Firewire Source to Apple Mac
A FireWire equipped Apple Mac running MacOS X 10.4 Tiger can function as an emulated DVHS deck for both recording and playback of OTA HD broadcasts. To accomplish this you will need the demo application VirtualDVHS2 which is included with Apple's Firewire SDK 20. VirtualDVHS2 should work with a variety of devices including most Mitsubishi HDTV's, the Samsung SIR-T165 STB, Mitsubishi HD-2000U and JVC DVHS decks. The FireWire equipped devices control all recording and timer functionality and the Mac simply acts as a DVHS deck. The improved GUI of VirtualDVHS2 simulates the front panel of a DVHS deck including record and playback buttons and a counter. Please note that the VirtualDVHS2 demo is really a refinement of a proof of concept rather than a supported Apple application although some forum members have had good results. Source code is also available so some enterprising developer may be able to wrap a polished GUI around this and ship a commercial product.

An AVS member has developed software, iRecord, using Apple's latest AVCVideoServices framework to record 5C copy-freely content from Motorola and S-A STBs equipped with FireWire. The software allows for timed-recordings and tuning channels.

The FireWire SDK 20 which includes VirtualDVHS2, source code, and other programs such as AVCVideoCap and DVHSCap can be freely downloaded from Apple developer site at the URL below. Be sure to read the readme included with VirtualDVHS2 for configuration info.

FireWire SDK 20

My sincere thanks to AVS members rcliff and jsb_hburg for providing this information.



HDTV PVR
Cable
· Scientific Atlanta
· Motorola
· Pace
· TiVo HD
Discontinued
Sony DHG-HDD 250 or 500

DBS
· Dish Network HD DVR MPEG4 compatable
ViP 612
ViP 622
ViP 722

· DirecTV HD DVR MPEG4 compatable
H20
HR21

OTA
· TiVo HD
Discontinued
Sony DHG-HDD 250 or 500



HDTV Camcorder
For in depth discussion of this aspect of HDTV recording, please see the AVS Camcorder Forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=161


Blu-ray Burner
Coming soon.
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post #2 of 68
12/10/05 at 5:23am
Please read MODERATER'S NOTE at the top of this thread and, by all means, please contribute .

By contribute, we mean information, not money. Although we will accept donations of beer.


- markrubin & DrDon
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post #3 of 68
12/18/05 at 11:21pm
Currently get my HD signal off a rooftop antennae (using Toshiba DTS3000 HD Tuner, i.e., without a dish), but also get Cox cable.

I don't have a digital box for cable so I get straight analog cable and record on a replay TV 5040 with lifetime subscription. I'd like to record in HDTV so I've considered following alternatives:

1) Sony HDD250-understand I can hook both cable and HDTV antennae on this at same time thereby eliminating ReplayTV and Toshiba DTS3000 HD - is that correct?

2) Sci Atl Explorer 8300-understand I can hook both cable and HDTV antennae on this at same time thereby eliminating ReplayTV and Toshiba DTS3000 HD - is that correct?

3) Does anyone know whether I will also need any sort of special cable access pass to get a channel guide into DVR (or can I do this by hooking an ethernet cable from DVR into my router and let the DVR pull info off internet), Or do I just need to forget about hooking cable up to one of these units)

4) I know first Sci Atl DVR, the 8000 got horrible reviews but 8300 is considered better; any sense how it compares to the Sony unit

5) Sometimes rooftop HDTV signal is intermittent; with one or both of these DVRs can I simultaneously record in analog and HD?

6) Are there any other DVRs I should consider?

I obviously don't want to pay Cox $20 each month to lease a DVR, plus fee for digital cable, etc. etc. and appreciate any advice I can get.

p.s. for my rec'v I use a Yamaha v2500 and my TV is a Toshiba 50H81 (4 years old without HDMI or other "newer" digital input hookups
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post #4 of 68
12/19/05 at 3:14pm
Edit: the original Feb. 2006 date for the new unit (now called a Series 3) listed below didn't pan out. New time frame as announced at CES is "second half of 2006".

Over on the TiVo Community Forums, several members received verbal confirmation from front-line TiVo CSRs that the new stand-alone Hi-Def CableCard-based TiVo unit will be available starting in February 2006 (see note above). This unit would have the TiVo GUI and functionality, and be capable of recording SD and HD programming from over-the-air NTSC and ATSC broadcast sources, in-the-clear QAM cable sources, and (with the addition of a programmed CableCard) encrypted QAM cable sources. It is believed that this will be one of the first products to support the CableCard 2.0 (interactive two-way) specification.

Also, the Comcast-TiVo-partnered DVR is supposed to be available at the same time. All of this is expected to be confirmed at CES.
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post #5 of 68
12/22/05 at 6:48pm
Appears to be another new Mac solution:

http://www.miglia.com/products/video...d/preview.html
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post #6 of 68
12/24/05 at 7:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezzy View Post

Appears to be another new Mac solution:

http://www.miglia.com/products/video...d/preview.html

Thanks!! Incorporated into first post.

Doc
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post #7 of 68
12/24/05 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosenkavalier View Post

Also, the Comcast-TiVo-partnered DVR is supposed to be available at the same time. All of this is expected to be confirmed at CES.

I had heard that Comcast would be offering Tivo software as an alternative interface for their existing Motorola and SA DVRs. So, I assume you mean they will be offering the software upgrade to Comcast subs. in Feb.?
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post #8 of 68
1/1/06 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosenkavalier View Post

Over on the TiVo Community Forums, several members received verbal confirmation from front-line TiVo CSRs that the new stand-alone Hi-Def CableCard-based TiVo unit will be available starting in February 2006. This unit would have the TiVo GUI and functionality, and be capable of recording SD and HD programming from over-the-air NTSC and ATSC broadcast sources, in-the-clear QAM cable sources, and (with the addition of a programmed CableCard) encrypted QAM cable sources. It is believed that this will be one of the first products to support the CableCard 2.0 (interactive two-way) specification...

It's my understanding that the TiVo unit is a dual-tuner HD recorder with two version 1.0 card slots instead of one.
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post #9 of 68
1/5/06 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RU Geekman View Post

It's my understanding that the TiVo unit is a dual-tuner HD recorder with two version 1.0 card slots instead of one.

The demo unit shown at last year's (2005) CES was a dual-card 1.0 device (one card per tuner). Comments coming out over the last few months indicated that the final production unit would rely on the CC 2.0 spec, which allows multiple feeds from a single card. Of course, there's no telling if anything will actually be announced this year...
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post #10 of 68
1/5/06 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

I had heard that Comcast would be offering Tivo software as an alternative interface for their existing Motorola and SA DVRs. So, I assume you mean they will be offering the software upgrade to Comcast subs. in Feb.?

Yes, I believe that is what they are expected to do. Timeframe is a guess until an announcement, whenever that comes...
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post #11 of 68
1/5/06 at 3:13pm
Will the standalone HD Tivo DVR work with OTA if you are not a cable subscriber?
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post #12 of 68
1/5/06 at 6:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericlhyman View Post

Will the standalone HD Tivo DVR work with OTA if you are not a cable subscriber?

According to this report, yes.
http://www.tivolovers.com/252572.html
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post #13 of 68
1/9/06 at 11:27am
Why isn't the ATI HDTV Wonder listed among PC HDTV tuner cards?

Techbargains.com lists it as $85 after rebate from buy.com until 1/31/2006.
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post #14 of 68
1/16/06 at 11:55am
From original post:
Quote:
Firewire Source to Windows XP PC
For in depth discussion of this aspect of HDTV recording, please see DVHSTool.

Where??? Is there a tools section I don't know about?
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post #15 of 68
1/16/06 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by leebo View Post

Where??? Is there a tools section I don't know about?

No, but if you run a search in this forum for DVHSTool, you'll get the threads that contain the information.
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post #16 of 68
2/16/06 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicvoid View Post

According to this report, yes.
http://www.tivolovers.com/252572.html

This is for the Series 3 Tivo which isn't out and won't be for quite a while. The OP (original poster) might have meant the Tivo you get for Direct TV that has OTA capabilities.. if so, I have read in many places that it will not work if you are not a satellite subscriber.

peter
p.s. link to product was censored when I tried to post but google search for it
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post #17 of 68
2/23/06 at 10:42am
In the synopsis is written:
Quote:


... only one D-VHS unit [has] a built-in DTV tuner, the others [rely] on a Firewire interface to an outboard HDTV source.

OK: which D-VHS unit has the built-in ATSC tuner?
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post #18 of 68
4/5/06 at 6:05am
$500 more for just a 8VSB tuner. What good is it w/o a QAM tuner?

Yea, right...........
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post #19 of 68
4/5/06 at 6:49am
The link for the Key Digital KD-FIRE1080P HD Hanna is bad. This is just a scaler?

This device that is listed in the STB sticky is missing under HDTV PVRs';
Contemporary Research IP-HDVR $1799, PVR, QAM in the clear, Firewire
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post #20 of 68
6/4/06 at 7:21am
Great synopsis.

But, I saw no mention of the "coming soon" TiVo series 3 HDTV PVR.

Also, I suggest deleting the $999 price shown for the HD TiVo (HR10-250) from DirecTV, since the going price for purchase now is more like $399. Also, DirecTV is not selling them anymore, only leasing them (with an upfront fee of $400 IIRC).
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post #21 of 68
7/1/06 at 6:42am
I just registered to add a comment and a question about HDTV PVRs.

It seems like there is almost some kind of conspiracy going on with the cable companies, dish companies, and the TiVo types. Why are all of the "free" HDTV PVR options disappearing from the marketplace? Why did Sony discontinue their DHG models? Why did LG discontinue their LST model? It seems like more and more manufacturers are now abandoning a market that I would think should be booming.

Why are cable companies allowed to flat out lie to people asking about free QAM broadcasting of HDTV signals? I called Comcast and they flat out said that I had to have their box to receive HDTV programming over cable - which is completely untrue.

Are there any decent HDTV PVRs left that haven't been discontinued?
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post #22 of 68
7/1/06 at 10:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post

Why are all of the "free" HDTV PVR options disappearing from the marketplace? Why did Sony discontinue their DHG models? Why did LG discontinue their LST model?

Free? Sony's (500GB) box cost $1000! For all that, it didn't work very well. (I didn't buy it because I long ago had enough of Gemstar/TVGuide's incomptence.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post

It seems like more and more manufacturers are now abandoning a market that I would think should be booming.

You and I both think that there is a market for these things, but maybe we all there is to it. Joe SixPack doesn't care (yet?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post

Why are cable companies allowed to flat out lie to people asking about free QAM broadcasting of HDTV signals? I called Comcast and they flat out said that I had to have their box to receive HDTV programming over cable - which is completely untrue.

I heard that from Comcrap, too. I don't think the CSRs were lying, just stupid. They seemed genuinely surprised that my set could tune their HD signal without their box or CableCard. They hire any jerk off the street, after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post

Are there any decent HDTV PVRs left that haven't been discontinued?

None that I know of. I'd like to wrong.
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post #23 of 68
7/2/06 at 6:29am
Quote:


almost some kind of conspiracy going on with the cable companies, dish companies, and the TiVo types.

Don't forget the #1 group; the MPAA!
If they got their way, you would have to pay each and every time you wanted to watch something, even if you already bought a copy.

I just recently found the smaller of the two Phoneys', er Sonys for $425 delivered. It was a scratch 'n Dent, but still haven't found any yet. Once you get past the VD, er, TV Guide setup it seems to work ok, but I'm not at that point yet.

One reason that wasn't given, was the lack of education on the part of the manufactures just as JVC failed with the introduction of S-VHS and telling everyone you had to run out and buy a new set with/ a Y/C input.
At least that is what many thought, so they never bought into the format.

Granted, the Sony units were overpriced and the LG units had too many bugs (that could of been worked out), if the public woul;d be educated as well as the Cable companies brainwashed their customers into renting their box for the ease of adding PPVs' for the ones that are can't wait 3 or 6 months for the same movie to show on a regular premium service, or just have to the first one on the block to see the movie.
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post #24 of 68
7/2/06 at 8:44am
Probably about an hour after my post it hit me that for an additional $10/month or so anyone willing to subscribe to cable or dish systems can get the PVR/DVR system in the package. So I guess I understand what's going on... for now. I would certainly hope that in a few years when HDTV really is the reality for Joe consumer that non-subscription based solutions will once again proliferate and lower costs.

For me, there just isn't enough additional HD content available via expanded cable or dish solutions to make it worth it to me. I'm getting over a dozen HD signals OTA and I think I'm going to permanently add an outboard QAM tuner too. Too bad the Sony DHG and LG LST models didn't pan out too well - they certainly looked good on paper.
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post #25 of 68
8/26/06 at 2:11am
Why don"t they simply make an HDTV tuner/DVR unit for those of us who simply want to timeshift HD and analog broadcasts? There would be no expensive firewire involved and no worry about digital copying as the only output would be component, copy-protected DVI, or whatever to the TV.

I bought an HDTV capable TV a few years ago, but held off on buying an HDTV tuner since our market (Denver) has yet to get OTA signals of decent receivable strength. But when the time comes to buy an HDTV tuner, a recorder is mandatory for me since the majority of my viewing is timeshifted. It seems like Firewire is inflating the product prices as well as raising copyright issues. The D-VHS recorders with DTV tuner sounds like what I need in 1 unit but is more than the price of buying separate Firewire tuner and DVR; also in this day and age of hard drive technology and capacity, I'd rather have instant access rather than slow sequential tape which degrades over time. Also, what is the difference between a PVR and DVR?
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post #26 of 68
8/26/06 at 7:05am
HDTimeShifter,

It sounds like the upcoming TiVo series 3 unit is a good match for your needs for hard-drive recording from digital OTA (8VSB), digital cable (QAM) and analog OTA or cable channels.

A partial solution for non-HD would be a separate device, such as a TiVo series 2 DT (dual tuner) for cable analog signals (but NOT OTA analog) or an older series 2 for analog OTA (and analog cable, and digital cable when connected to a cable-company set top box).

Another alternative for analog OTA or cable timeshifting is a DVD recorder that includes a hard disk drive (HDD). Depending on brand and model, some HDD DVD recorders (sometimes called DVDR's, and sometimes confusingly called DVR's) offer on-screen program guides and/or VCR+ and manual recording by time and channel (like a VCR would).

I trust that you are aware that the cable companies are required to offer free (i.e., even with their most basic "limited" cable package for about $15 or less) digital channel reception, without their cable box (using a QAM tuner in your TV or PVR/DVR or external HDTV tuner) for any channels that they carry that you could otherwise receive OTA in your market.

Originally, the term "DVR" (digital video recorder) was used for a basic digital video recorder with VCR-like functionality. The term "PVR" (personal video recorder) was used for a "smarter" DVR that allowed the user to set parameters for selecting and recording programs far beyond the generic VCR-like capabilities. Replay TV, Showstopper and TiVo generally were considered PVRs. Early versions of cable recorders and Dish satellite recorders all started as DVRs but have since progressed with features and functions to be more like PVRs.

I know that TiVo used the term PVR to describe their products, including the DirecTV version. Later DirecTV wanted to distance themselves from the TiVo company and branding, so they started calling the same box a "DirecTV DVR with TiVo." Around here those same boxes are also referred to as "DirecTiVo" units.

So, there is not really a clear distinction between DVR and PVR as the terms are used today. It seems like the PVR term is being used less and the DVR term is being used more, regardless of the feature sets provided.

My personal solution to "timeshift HD and analog broadcasts" involves DirecTV service because our analog OTA reception is terrible and our previous cable service was not much better. In late 1999 I switched to DirecTV service starting with one SD (standard definition, analog equivalent) DirecTiVo for timeshifting and one HDTV STB that received all satellite signals/channels (SD, including our local channels, and HD) and digital OTA channels. I was fortunate in that my digital OTA reception works great, even though my analog reception is terrible. I guess that speaks a bit for some of the value of converting from analog to digital OTA.

Later I added a second DirecTiVo (SD), then our first HD DirecTiVo, and later a second. We still use the SD DirecTiVo's for non-HD timeshifting and normally limit the HD DirecTiVo use to HD. My wife and I each have and SD and HD DirecTiVo for our personal timeshifting.

A more direct answer to your first question might be that the satellite and cable companies are all offering their own DVR timeshifting capabilities, so there is less perceived demand for comparable OTA capabilities. Also, the FCC has mandated for sometime next year that all TV "receivers" must support ATSC digital TV reception, and that apparently applies to TVs, DVRs, DVD recorders, VCRs and whatever (I could be wrong on this--someone with more knowledge can step in with corrections). This hybrid TV world we are in complicates everything, and certainly confuses the average TV viewer who just wants to tune in the channel for the TV program they want to watch or record.
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post #27 of 68
8/27/06 at 12:13am
Dave,

Thanks for the info. Would someone please update this thread with links to info on the TiVo 3 (as well as all previous HD TiVos)? Also the only TiVo PVR (DirectTV) mentioned in the 1st post has a non-functioning link.

In the past (pre-HD era) I have ignored TiVo and other PVR devices because they required pay subscriptions for dumbed-down simple programming menu selection for average Joe when the basic channel/time VCR programming functionality is all that I need. True, I have on occasion screwed up by unconsciously selecting PM when attempting to record the rare AM show. A TiVo HD-DVR would sound like the solution if it offers a QAM tuner as well as analog cable tuner and and capacity to record from both. Does the TiVo series 2 DT have this? From your description, I'm unclear as to what the 2nd tuner receives other than cable analog. As much as I am against paying for cable/satallite and their high compression HD just to receive OTA, the current situation here (big fight trying to get D-OTA towers approved which has dragged on for years and I see no solution for more years), I currently have cable because I use cable modem and cable TV is only $5 more and analog OTA reception was unnacceptable without a roof antenna (which I now know I could have erected [thanks FCC] even though the HOA told me I couldn't when I initially bought my home 9 years ago). A 3rd D-OTA tuner and record capability would also be nice in the DVR, but right now is not a requirement. Also, is it possible to buy a working TiVo from a store without subscribing to cable or satellite service to activate its functionality? I thought someone here mentioned something about $499 TiVo HD-DVR, which I would run out and buy tomorrow if it had QAM and analog cable tuner and recording capability. Lastly I'm not current on the Echostar/TiVo court fight, but if the injunction to shut down Echostar TiVo units goest through, would that affect non-Echostar users of TiVo units?

I spent a couple grand for my HD-capable TV in 2003 and believe it's long overdue to quit using it simply to watch analog cable and timeshifted VHS.
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post #28 of 68
8/27/06 at 11:48am
HDTS,

Let me try to clarify here.

I was mistaken about the TiVo Series 3 capabilities in my prior post (I just corrected that info a few minutes ago). It can tune and record analog and digital channels from cable or OTA sources. It uses cable cards to be able to tune in premium digital cable channels (if you subscribe to them) without requiring a separate cable box. So I think it could meet all of your needs without changing service providers.

The price has not been announced yet but strong rumors and TiVo communications with cable companies regarding the need for cable cards suggest that the debut is not far away.

Here is a thread with lots of discussion about the TiVo Series 3: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=312950

Google "TiVo Series 3" for more sources of info.
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post #29 of 68
11/1/06 at 11:19am
Any update on recording HD from Samsung SIR-T165 firewire to WinXP? Is it still impossible? anyone made any progress? how about Windows Vista - will it be able record HD from T165 via firewire input?

thanks,

steve - nyc
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post #30 of 68
11/3/06 at 9:27am
Will a 2007 thread be created this year? If so, Feel free to add the following items to the 'PC HDTV tuners' section:

· OnAir GT (USB powered HDTV/Analog tuner) - $179 - http://www.autumnwave.com/
· OnAir Creator (USB HDTV/Analog tuner w/ encoder) - $249 - http://www.autumnwave.com/


Feel free to also remove 'usbhdtv.com' from the 'USB source for HDTV Recording' section, as it is replaced with the 2 items above.

Thanks,
- Ryan Pertusio
AutumnWave Technical Support
OnAir Solution North America
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