Calling all Polkies:Official Polk thread - Page 440

put up or shut up!!

take the Richard Clark amp challenge and get yourself a cool 10g's. Imagine the upgrades you could do with that windfall.

a link to the faq

http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

as far as i can tell nobody in some 15 years of the challenge has won it.

Congratulations! Good times ahead.

And where did I state it as a fact? My original post said he could find a better used amp for the same price as the emo amp he listed. The word "stomp" would be what YOU misinterpreted as referring to better sounding.

I then went in to say I liked my carver better than an emo and said it was cheaper and works better in my opinion. In no post did I use the word "fact" you simply inferred it which you did incorrectly.

In the end here are my thoughts on all things audio: "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgement. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not." - Nelson Pass

If anyone is looking for a pair of Rti A5s and a Csi A6 center let me know, looking to sell mine soon.

Closer to Illinois the better

You'll be happy with that choice. I ran the M60's for a couple years and still use the CS2.
And the M30's can fit just about anywhere.

And you honestly think 125 watts of Carver will sound better than 200 watts of Emotiva?

The Carver's Power Steering feature allows it to give in excess of 200 watts of power @ 8ohms to any channel as needed.

Very rarely will you actually be using all 200 watts at each channel, so the Power Steering works out quite effectively.

Also keep in mind the original post was in regards to driving LSi's which are 4 ohm speakers. The Carver doesnt list 4 ohm spec's but it can handle the load with no problem.

I have driven Magnepan MMG's with the Carver and they are notorious for dipping in below the 2 ohm load... Don't know if the Emo would be able to do that.

hellooooooooooooooo

i just ordered a set of monitor 40s and the denon 2112ci, so forgive me if im a little loopy and excited

my question is this. and its a simple one. what kind of speaker wire? 12 gauge? 14 gauge? 16 gauge? 200 gauge?

also, what is this business about bi-wiring? necessary?

oh god, i cant wait for this stuff to arrive...although ill be on vacation while it does...oh god, oh god, oh god

16 or even 18 Ga would be adequate, but 14 Ga is better. For typical wire lengths of 10-15 ft doesn't really make much difference. Forget bi-wiring. You won't see any improvement, especially since the M40's are basically still small speakers. Have fun with your new gear!

It may come to that. While I have always intended to "someday" list much of my unused gear on CL, in reality I rarely actually get around to it. Recently I gave away a TV just to get it out of the house. You get older and time is a far more valuable and limited resource than money. It's never been about the money.

If it comes down to it I may just give them away. Of course, I'm not about to pack them up and pay for shipping, so any recipients would have to arrange pickup. And I'll have to clear it with the moderators here.

Edit: PS - please do not flood me with PM's. I'm still working this out.

LOL.... Rob I forget where you are, but PM me what gear you have non speaker wise that might be up for grabs when/if that happens. I to understand the PITA that CL can be (been trying to sell a sub and box for 4 months there).... maybe you got something that will peak my interest lol.....

PITA for sure. (BTW it's "pique" your interest). 90% of calls are "what's wrong with it?" ... and the answer is of course, nothing, I just want to get rid of it. Then they show up and they say that isn't what you said it was (til I show them the ad!) Mostly I have the Polk Monitors and a few subs... I figure the subs will go to my sons, if they ever reach the point where they stay in one place for a few years and it doesn't end up back in my house!

Besides the speakers, a lot of 70's audio gear that I see ppl are selling on the 'bay for hundreds of dollars, but if I go thru the hassle of packing it up then find out it broke in shipment and some jerk leaves neg FB... well, you know. I bought a used Polk center that came apart in the box, contacted the seller and he gave me the insurance number... going to the PO I find out there's all this paperwork and then they take the speaker and THROW IT AWAY. I suspect the seller had broken it himself, then threw it in a box and spent ten bucks to insure it so the hassle would be someone else's. And I just never left FB on him to avoid starting a feud. Life if tough. It's easier to just eat it and move on.

LOL... my sub is a car sub in a ported box. HT subs are on my list of things I want/need since my PSW125 makes me sad on the inside with its performance.

Love some of that vintage 70's gear, especially the stuff with silver faceplates . Integrated recievers, amps, OH YEAH!!!

And with CL I wont ship. Dont want to deal with the hassles you describe. You want it, come pick it up lol.

I rarely buy from folks I dont know either personally or through a forum that they are regularlly involved in. Saves drama and you know the condition of the gear because they tell you straight up and you also know the chances of them abusing said gear. Also gives you an outlet should they try to screw you over if you want to go that route lol...

Is this a joke? You can't honestly believe that I can't hear a difference between the 1999 Sony AVR in my bathroom closet and my brand new Marantz SR7005 in direct mode. Come on, my WIFE can hear the difference man! This is bananas!

I do get a nice UPS rate thanks to my job :-) I am really partial to my Monitors in our living room / HT area. Got a spare receiver from my parents when they moved, considering a 2nd set up for our bedroom or a basic 2.1 music arrangement. I used to have Polk in my car, Polk at my parents, now Polk in my own house. They haven't let me down.

I am now officially "Monitor" free, I listed a 7.0 speaker set on CL and sold it fast, 70s 40s 30s CS2 gone.

Now it's off to complete my RTiA line, 2/3s there.

Level matched and operated within operational specs of each unit (as in not clipping) and in the same room with the same speakers playing the same source material you will not hear a difference. You may think you do, but all DBT test data says otherwise.

In different rooms with different speakers and different sources and not level matched you will perceive differences in sound, but those difference are not due to the amp stages, unless you are operating beyond specs or one of your amps is broken. The differences you hear are due to room, speakers and source. I know you dont want to hear it and you feel better knowing the marantz sounds better to you to help justify your purchase of it, but the reality of the situation is they sound the same within the constraints I listed here.

Research the topic here on these forums or other sites on the web if you dont believe me. Participating in a double blind test may also serve to help you understand as well.

Amps should be bought for their features and power ratings, not in how they sound.

Now if you have bionic ears you may be hearing differences that us mere mortals would only be able to dream of.

Guys, good discussion for a different thread. This is about Polk.

And your point? If one amp sounds better with my equipment in my room and my source, why would I go with another one just because in double blind testing it sounds the same?

Synergy...... It does exist but I wont continue to argue my point as you obviously want data, numbers and testing to prove your point. My ears are the only test I need. If one amp sounds better/different to me, I dont care if it doesnt measure within spec, or that others cant tell the difference......

"In the end it only matters how it sounds to you"......



Once again: "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgement. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not." - Nelson Pass

It is not for me to tell you how to spend your money, even if you choose to squander it on unnecessary esoteric over priced and over hyped gear/accessories, that is your choice. I will however reserve the right to point out the lunacy of audiophool beliefs as a matter of course in this discussion or any other thread on this forum that I choose to participate in within the ground rules of this site of course. When confronted with the truth and science and facts, one would hope you and others like you would come to realize the fallacy of your "beliefs", but alas you can only lead a horse to water...

My over all point is not to change your "beliefs", but to share the truth to any individuals who choose to read this thread and see this topic of discussion. Weather you choose to recognize truth and scientific facts is irrelevant to said truths and does not change the fact that there are truths and myths in audio reproduction. Applying science properly and objectively will show where the dividing lines are. Anyone interested should search this forum and pay attention to the discussions that involve the people who are knowledgeable and experienced with sciences behind audio reproduction, you will learn something, I promise.

Drinking the kool-aid is your choice, as is believing in so called "synergy". Gear either works or it doesn't. Designers and manufacturers do not design their gear/accessories to only work with one or a few brands of speakers or vice versa. How would they even know how to make an amp work better/worse with any given brand of speaker, or a speaker to only work best with a certain brand of amp? It is just not possible no matter what kind of spin is put on it to justify it.

To anyone interested in the truth a good thing to keep in mind, buy according to your budget and feature specs of the equipment you choose. Do not buy according to adiophool myths that are easily disproven by science and facts.


Like someone else already mentioned, this is a polk audio thread, so lets get back to discussing polk speakers.

Yes, please!!!

???????? If my amp doesn't sound good, I wouldn't want to buy it, but that's just me I guess.

If I may dare to poke my finger into this hornets' nest, I'd like to point out that various circuit designs will "color" the sound slightly, perhaps insignificantly or imperceptibly... beyond IM and THD and how an amp performs under waveform tests. They can output the same signal but sound different. Yes, I have bought amps I did not like, sold it and bought another that I did like. However there is no way to determine ahead of time how each individual will react to a particular model. Now back to speakers.

People are always going to take issue with a shoot from the hip approach. Synergy is just a term for people that want/desire to play the amp and cable version of Russian Roulette and then want to go onto dispensing 'advice'. Until you can reliably pick a two channel Carver out from something like two channel Emotiva and do it in a statistical manner then it is all just hearsay and anecdotal at best.

Mr. Pass has a self-served BIAS to promote that point of view. I am sure even more so that he is putting some $70K amps on the market. Mr. Pass is a really great designer. So are the guys that designed the Crown Macro-Tech series.

You're 90 minutes away from me and I have friends in Indianapolis. I would be willing to bring up a $299, 8lb Crown XLS 1000 Drive Core and level match and perform a SBT.

Food for thought:
(Threads from Club Polk)

Carver=Emotiva

AND:

Sunfire Grand Signature sounds exactly like the XPA-2.

Good God man!!! Still spewing the BS I see, and using my threads to do it! Bravo to you sir for having some original thoughts of your very own!.

I am certain that your good friend Keiko would want to know if you got the grill fixed yet, but I digress.

See you are using my threads to support your position, even though you don't understand anything about which you speak, so let me enlighten you. The first Emo amp was designed for and built to be a CARVER product. Somehow, Dan came into possession of that finished amp after the company that owned the Carver name was ordered to stop using it by a circuit court judge. Dan changed the faceplates added a new name and Emotiva was born, That first Emo amp is still the best engineered and best sounding amp they have ever made, not to mention the most expensive, inflation considered.

Today's stuff has as much in common with the Carver design as you know about audio... absolutely zero.

The Shadow's Carver is an older piece that predates the Carver Digital by several years. SBT/DBT testing done under the methodology you propose is useless as nulling the volume diferences between the two amps serves to negate the very differences you are trying to discern. It's not about volume, rather it is about the ability of an amp to control a speaker and reproduce sound faithfully, and articulately. Your pro grade crown you are so proud of is great for a single Gibson guitar, or a vocalist, and that is what it is meant to do, but to sit there and tell me that it is equal to anything else out there, including my 450 watts of tube power is simply ridiculous.

For those of you reading this and wondering where this comes from, lets just say that me and the Jujubee go way back. I missed you bro!




How dare you diminish the work of Nelson Pass and his legacy of innovation by comparing his work to the Crown. You come across as nothing but a fanboy for the cheapest gear you can get, lashing out at those that aspire for better. If you are such a great and awesome DIY guy, why not build your own amp. At least then you can claim to understand how an amp works rather than just pretend to know.
My DIY Granite 450wpc tube mono's are heavenly. When I get them back from being trimmed and tweaked, I would be happy to post some pics. Jinjuku my friend... if you ever want to do a SBT/DBT against them with your amp, just let me know. I have little doubt that the Crown will lose it's shine.

Reported Post.

Wow...

I expected better than that. You used my threads to make a point and when I refute the logic behind your using them, rather than clarify your thoughts or pose a salient point, you instead shoot the messenger... classic!

No worries Jinjuku. I really did miss you and have no malice towards you. You remind me of that little brother that was always trying to hang out with the older brother and his friends. I promise to not come after you as hard as I did, that was a tad aggressive, but you have to stop using threads from other sites from which you have been banned to make a point that does not exist.

Peace.

Uh, yeah.... right

Folks anyone this misinformed (see the highlighted portion) and then comes back an insinuate that they are running with a pack others can't keep up with. Ignorance is the lack of knowledge. Stupidity is the unwillingness to correct for it.

Do us a favor: Find where I said 'equal'.

This is from CROWN's own website. What you have there is a PA amp. it is not designed for use with a guitar, rather it is intended as a public address(PA) amp(much further down the chain). This means it is designed to push volume and volume only. The reason for it's low cost is that the amp does not have to be faithful to the music to deliver on being loud.

May I sugest that you get your hands on a Nakamichi PA5 or a PA7mkII(both Nelson Pass designs) and compare them yourself? If you are honest with yourself(and us) you will hear a difference. You can also go to the First Watt site and by amp kits...