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Calling all Polkies:Official Polk thread - Page 845

post #25321 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by PretzelFisch View Post

The trouble with intermittent issues is that they are hard to prove they are properly resolved.
So, time will tell. I am hopeful that it was the interconnect cable. It would not be the first dude I purchased from mono price.

Forgive my ignorance, but what's going on with the XPA-100?
post #25322 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by climber07 View Post

Forgive my ignorance, but what's going on with the XPA-100?
My xpa-100 used for the FR triggered it's protection mode 2 or 3 times this weekend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PretzelFisch View Post

I recently bought 3 xpa-100 the unit running my right speaker has gone into protection mode a couple times this weekend, what should I be looking at in terms of possible causes?
post #25323 of 34827
What's the point of all the "clean power" gear people use? Does it really make a difference, or is it more "magic cable" nonsense? I know there are 5000000000000000000 threads about this, but curious what you guys think.
post #25324 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by cytoSiN View Post

What's the point of all the "clean power" gear people use? Does it really make a difference, or is it more "magic cable" nonsense? I know there are 5000000000000000000 threads about this, but curious what you guys think.

It doesn't change sq, unless it's broken. You just buy the power that will deliver the spl you want at your listening position.
post #25325 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by cytoSiN View Post

What's the point of all the "clean power" gear people use? Does it really make a difference, or is it more "magic cable" nonsense? I know there are 5000000000000000000 threads about this, but curious what you guys think.


I've never had to waste my money on one. Here's a thread you can take a look at.

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393858/power-conditioners

post #25326 of 34827
Yeah I looked at that one, and many others here and elsewhere. I understand the need for an APC/UPC if you're worried about power outages, but in terms of using it to provide better sound quality it seems like like hocus pocus.
post #25327 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by cytoSiN View Post

Yeah I looked at that one, and many others here and elsewhere. I understand the need for an APC/UPC if you're worried about power outages, but in terms of using it to provide better sound quality it seems like like hocus pocus.

Eh, I use a APC H15 to protect against both surge's during storms as well as OVERVOLTAGES that may cause issues with gear as well.

Voltage regulation does matter, even in my apartment (recently reno'd) the voltages are normally either too high or too low. The APC H15 keeps is where it needs to be and also helps eliminate noise and makes it easier to manage my cables since they all connect to that one unit.
post #25328 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by cytoSiN View Post

Yeah I looked at that one, and many others here and elsewhere. I understand the need for an APC/UPC if you're worried about power outages, but in terms of using it to provide better sound quality it seems like like hocus pocus.


Your eyes and mind are a powerful force. They can convince you of anything. Like the girls look better at closing time.

post #25329 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post

Eh, I use a APC H15 to protect against both surge's during storms as well as OVERVOLTAGES that may cause issues with gear as well.

Voltage regulation does matter, even in my apartment (recently reno'd) the voltages are normally either too high or too low. The APC H15 keeps is where it needs to be and also helps eliminate noise and makes it easier to manage my cables since they all connect to that one unit.

Definitely makes sense for surges, I get that part of it, and I use decent surge protectors with a sizable warranty. For overvoltages, do you think that's a result of living in an apartment? We bought a house last year and the electric was upgraded to a new 200A panel, and all of the wiring was redone. I have a voltmeter, I guess I could check what I'm getting from the wall to be sure.
post #25330 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post


Your eyes and mind are a powerful force. They can convince you of anything. Like the girls look better at closing time.

Doesn't that have more to do with alcohol?
post #25331 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post


Eh, I use a APC H15 to protect against both surge's during storms as well as OVERVOLTAGES that may cause issues with gear as well.

Voltage regulation does matter, even in my apartment (recently reno'd) the voltages are normally either too high or too low. The APC H15 keeps is where it needs to be and also helps eliminate noise and makes it easier to manage my cables since they all connect to that one unit.


Yep, some power sources are not reliable. No problem where I live but I use one on my PC for piece of mind.

post #25332 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr266 View Post


Doesn't that have more to do with alcohol?

 

Just a stupid comparison.

post #25333 of 34827

climber is the electrical guy here. He can fill your head with all kinds of facts on it.

post #25334 of 34827
post #25335 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

Post #21577 and down the page.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/618137/calling-all-polkies-official-polk-thread/21570#post_23668909

Thanks. That's generally what I've been reading. My understanding is that the power supply on each component IS the "clean power" provider, and if you still have issues, then there's something wrong with one or more component. Then again, power spikes can and do come from the wall sometimes, and I'm sure can damage components...but I would bundle that with "surges," even though I have no real technical explanation.
post #25336 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by cytoSiN View Post

Definitely makes sense for surges, I get that part of it, and I use decent surge protectors with a sizable warranty. For overvoltages, do you think that's a result of living in an apartment? We bought a house last year and the electric was upgraded to a new 200A panel, and all of the wiring was redone. I have a voltmeter, I guess I could check what I'm getting from the wall to be sure.

Its more to do with the grid where you are located at plus the wiring in your walls.

Also using one of those units helps eliminate a ground loop hum which is THE MOST annoying thing to try to track down and diagnose.

For me the extra 250 of cost wasnt a biggie. I still plan to get one for my bedroom setup as well as my 2 channel and computer setups for a piece of mind issue. Those units however may be more "industrial" looking (re SurgeX) since I can hide them easier.
post #25337 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post

Its more to do with the grid where you are located at plus the wiring in your walls.

Fair enough. I haven't noticed any issues to date, and everything is at least surge protected, so I think I'm ok where I am, but I'd be interested in testing if I could do it myself. Would a standard voltmeter do the trick?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post

Also using one of those units helps eliminate a ground loop hum which is THE MOST annoying thing to try to track down and diagnose.

That's definitely true. I've been lucky not to have this issue, even with the sub I just built, which is notorious for creating this problem. If I needed to fix a ground loop issue that wasn't fixable with a cheapo part like those used to fix the issue in atomotive setups, then I might spring for a Panamax power filter, or something similar, to kill two birds at once.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post

For me the extra 250 of cost wasnt a biggie. I still plan to get one for my bedroom setup as well as my 2 channel and computer setups for a piece of mind issue. Those units however may be more "industrial" looking (re SurgeX) since I can hide them easier.

I use one of these on my PC setup, mostly for surge protection and for battery backup for a few minutes in case I'm working during a power outage and need time to backup. They can be had for around $80 at Costco and the like, and they're useful, but as you say, they're not great looking. And the form factor is obviously not designed for a home theater. Also, I just don't see how the UPS factor (as opposed to the UPC) would be handy with a HT...what is there to back up in a power outage with a TV and an AVR?
post #25338 of 34827
Wall power can run as low as 90v and as high as 138v where my parents live in the sticks north of Belleville. lots of fried Chinese elcheapo computer power supplies keeps him busy. A quality supply can even it out more easily so I'm sure the same can happen with hifi equipment.
post #25339 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeme View Post

Wall power can run as low as 90v and as high as 138v where my parents live in the sticks north of Belleville. lots of fried Chinese elcheapo computer power supplies keeps him busy. A quality supply can even it out more easily so I'm sure the same can happen with hifi equipment.

That's the point though isn't it? Good equipment doesn't have "elcheapo" PSUs, it has better power management, in theory. If not, then I can certainly see why clean power would be necessary. But I sure as hell hope that we're getting better, built-in power management for the price of a decent AVR, even one that runs under a grand.
post #25340 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr266 View Post

Doesn't that have more to do with alcohol?

Alcohol + desperation! eek.gif
post #25341 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by cytoSiN View Post

Fair enough. I haven't noticed any issues to date, and everything is at least surge protected, so I think I'm ok where I am, but I'd be interested in testing if I could do it myself. Would a standard voltmeter do the trick?
That's definitely true. I've been lucky not to have this issue, even with the sub I just built, which is notorious for creating this problem. If I needed to fix a ground loop issue that wasn't fixable with a cheapo part like those used to fix the issue in atomotive setups, then I might spring for a Panamax power filter, or something similar, to kill two birds at once.
I use one of these on my PC setup, mostly for surge protection and for battery backup for a few minutes in case I'm working during a power outage and need time to backup. They can be had for around $80 at Costco and the like, and they're useful, but as you say, they're not great looking. And the form factor is obviously not designed for a home theater. Also, I just don't see how the UPS factor (as opposed to the UPC) would be handy with a HT...what is there to back up in a power outage with a TV and an AVR?

The battery backup for a HT system gives you time to power it down right, that's mainly what its for also for brownouts where the power goes out for say a min or two, etc, your still going while the power is out without a loss of what your doing.

I dont think the point is to back anything up so much as allow the proper powerdown time, for Projectors it allows the bulb fan to keep going so it cools off right, etc. Those are some things off the top of my head.

I will end up with a unit like you linked to for my computer. Everything else will be on a SurgeX conditioner or a Panamax/APC unit.
post #25342 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by cytoSiN View Post

But I sure as hell hope that we're getting better, built-in power management for the price of a decent AVR, even one that runs under a grand.

Doubt it. I would say its probably on par with whats in your computer if your lucky.
post #25343 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post

Doubt it. I would say its probably on par with whats in your computer if your lucky.

Depends what kind of computer we're talking about smile.gif I build my own...I have an 850 watt 80 Plus Gold Certified PSU in my current rig...overkill, but just like with speaker, you can never have enough overhead biggrin.gif

Considering that my Onkyo 818 (not fancy by any stretch of the imagination) allegedly provides 135wpc (yes, I know it's lower than that in practice), it still needs a relatively serious power supply. As compared to the "elcheapo" crap in the spacesaver Dell computer case that most people use at work. But I haven't actually looked into it, so I don't know...
post #25344 of 34827
I'm an electronics technician and not an engineer so my comments are simply from the technician's perspective. Not from a degree in electrical engineering (even though I've sat through around 4 1/2 years of formal schooling in electrical theory, math (which I like to think of as theory) and hands on practical troubleshooting). ...but hey, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.

Power from the wall should stay between a few percent of 110 VAC at 60Hz. If you live in the "sticks" and have power fluctuations then an AVR (auto voltage regulator) will definitely help. One power fluctuation that surge protectors won't often find is the one that happens when the grid goes down and then powers back on. That surge isn't enough to trip the surge protector circuitry but is sometimes enough to provide "dirty" power to all of your household devices. That is where a UPS or power conditioner (auto voltage regulator) will come in handy.

I use an APC Smart-UPS Pro 1500 on both by computer (which cost more than my Onkyo, Emo XPA-2, and TV combined) and my TV. I can't run the amp and the AVR off of the UPS due to the high current demand. I use standard surge protectors for those.

Like one of the resident engineers (Arnyk) here at AVS stated quite a few posts back, most electronic devices are designed to handle power fluctuations. My computer PSU will take from 100 - 240 VAC and 47 - 63 Hz. That's a pretty big swing there. AV receivers are close to those specs as well (except for the 240VAC as they only accept 120 VAC or 240VAC depending on model).

The audio sections (DAC, amp, etc.) couldn't care less how clean the power coming from the wall is as long as it is within specs to allow the internal power supply to operate. Garden hose power cables and multi-thousand dollar power conditioners won't do much if anything for your power. Installing properly grounded, dedicated power lines for your equipment will provide the most benefit, however, most homes have more than sufficient wiring and breakers installed. Hell, most people have all of their equipment plugged into one or two outlets (on the same breaker), and yes I'm guilty too, so power is power. Noise is the biggest killer. You will find that almost all power supplies will filter out noise in the A/C power outlets anyway. Your biggest concern will be interconnects and ground loops. You can always get some cable risers so that the static from the carpet won't dull your music... eek.gif (I had to...)

I got these used years ago and buy replacement batteries on the cheap every four - six years for them:

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=su1400net






Here's the batteries at about 1/5th the cost of APC batteries (and they're the same):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RAVT58/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1




I have a hard time justifying the cost of the aesthetics of the "Home Theater" power conditioners and UPSs. I wish I didn't have to! rolleyes.gif
Edited by climber07 - 12/9/13 at 2:03pm
post #25345 of 34827
Thanks Climber, that's helpful biggrin.gif
post #25346 of 34827

My CSi3 showed up in the shipping dept. this morning.  Now I'm having another motivation problem at work.  I think I'm felling ill.  :D

post #25347 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtxgringo View Post

Ordered A5's for my surrounds, now my 7.1 is complete; thanks to the ice storm they're stuck in Ft Worth AAARRRRGH lol mad.gif It's actually snowing here this morn!

It's been 85 degrees every day so far this month here in Orlando. tongue.gif It seems we timed our vacation perfectly!
post #25348 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobLee View Post


It's been 85 degrees every day so far this month here in Orlando. tongue.gif It seems we timed our vacation perfectly!


I hate you.  :D 

post #25349 of 34827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitaface View Post
 

My CSi3 showed up in the shipping dept. this morning.  Now I'm having another motivation problem at work.  I think I'm felling ill.  :D


Tell them you have an ear ache and need to go get it treated. That's only half a fib.

post #25350 of 34827

Managed to get the fan removed from the Pro Amp. Just need to splice in the new fan when it arrives in the mail later today. Haven't broken anything "yet".

 

 

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